Clutch problems - few questions

[jmontoya]

I dropped off my car yesterday at this shop to fix my headliner and redo the carpeting and the guy tells me he can't get the car down the ramp he has leading into the shop without scraping so he said he will take it home to his garage to finish it that night. Fast forward to today, I go pickup the car and the interior looks great, but now the clutch is slipping.

Before I dropped the car off there wasn't any problems with the clutch and it pulled strong in all gears. Now today I get onto the expressway and go WOT in 3rd and the revs go up to redline but I'm not going anywhere. This is my first manual car so I really don't know all that much about the transmission/clutch. I'm assuming I need a new clutch and flywheel correct?

Also what did this guy do on the way home to completely ruin it overnight because seriously the clutch was felt perfect and there was not even any signs of slipping.


Lastly, I've heard a lightweight flywheel and M5 clutch is the way to go, is this still true and how much will it run me for parts then typical labor at a shop.

[fivaxis]

How many miles? I just replaced mine, it was pretty much gone at 159k. Sounds like he slipped it a lot and now it's glazed. If you're not adding a lot of power then the stock clutch is fine.

[jmontoya]

90k miles. I have 8k put away for FI sometime this summer but as this rate my funds are going to be depleted if stuff keeps going wrong.

[ohnoes]

What's the history of the car? AFAIK clutches can go in as little as 60k (assuming non/FI'd) if your driving habits are especially severe (i.e. lots of stop-and-go, lots of little short trips where the metal doesn't even have time to fully heat up) or, err, "spirited." :stickoutt But...I've also heard of people getting 120k+ on stock clutches.

Perhaps the tech took the car for a spirited drive, didn't tell you, and just worked the clutch too hard for the amount of material that was left. Sounds like he definitely did something, though it's entirely possible it's just a coincidence.

Personally, I've had to have two clutches done out of my four BMWs. My first was the E30 318i, and I pretty much knew I'd need one soon when I bought it. The throwout bearing was making a horrible squealing, and since you have to remove the clutch to get to the TO bearing anyways, I thought why not do the clutch? The mileage was around 135k IIRC. The second was the 540i/6. That was just stupidity on my part. I would have known something was wrong, even with little experience, if I had test-driven it. But I drove 3 hours and was determined to buy it. So, I just bought it. The first time I even drove it was when I had already bought it. Needless to say, I thought something was up when the engine revs didn't produce any acceleration at high RPMs. :rolleyes That was a $2,100 lesson learned when I drove around on the slipping clutch for a week and burned the flywheel beyond being machined. The 540 flywheels are extremely sensitive...the moment you experience slippage it is a good idea to replace the clutch (or park it till you do). They're also very expensive. Just the clutch job would have been around $1,200 at the BMW specialty shop I took it to. But just the flywheel part was $800.

So, in short: don't burn up your flywheel!

[Ron97M3]

Basically you loaned your car out on a friday night to this guy.
Is he a young man who would foolishly mistreat your car?

It would be nice if he got a ticket in your car for speeding last night
that would give you amuno for small claims court. If you could find
any witnesses to the careless driving of you car, like neighbors where
he lives that would be good to! I would be talking to his boss if he
has one and mad as hell!

Sounds like you have a seriously slipping clutch now and YES that can
damage the flywheel a new flywheel is more money ($600+?).
I was quoted 7 hours (for $700) and $500 for parts. This did not include a flywheel which I think is at least another $600?

Actually I will do this job myself and also redo the shifter bushings and any else that looks to need replacing. Likely I will replace the starter since it's $hard$ to get to also. I am just going to use OEM standard parts.

My clutch has 101,000 with no signs of failing yet. I assume I will do
120,000 for sure before I need to replace it. I don't slip the clutch badly and I have been driving manual cars for years.

[ohnoes]

Oh, and yeah, I would definitely speak to the owner/manager of the shop, if I were you. If this guy is him, well, you have no choice but to approach him directly about it. Just explain your situation and say you genuinely don't think it was slipping before you brought it in. Ask him to at least cover half of the cost of the replacement as a sign of good customer service. Say it like you mean it, but don't insult or threaten him. And whatever you do, don't accuse him of causing the damage.

I'd definitely not just accept that, though. I think 50% is fair, considering that yes, it was probably the original clutch with a fair amount of miles on it, but it wasn't slipping before you brought it in.

[Balthazarr]

How would the OP prove that he didn't do the damage himself?

It could be just glazed.
Do a search for how to remove that. Rob at UUC has posted several times how it's done.
Or go to the UUC site and see if the info is there.

[ohnoes]

How would the OP prove that he didn't do the damage himself?

He wouldn't. But there can be a reasonable assumption of honesty when two parties have been doing business with each other for a decent amount of time...otherwise, nothing in the world would ever get done. Especially when you're dealing with a customer. :rolleyes :mad I hate customers (not the OP, just in general).

[Ron97M3]

Did the shop tell you you had a bad clutch after having the car?

Seems to me driving it home and all, the mechanic should have been
able to tell.

If he said nothing, then to me that point seriously to he pushed it
and he killed it!

I agree with ohnoes however. First ask how much labor and parts are for
a clutch job. The worry is a flywheel too for the abuse the other night!
40% to 50% would be good and fair IMHO.

[Jwright]

That sucks... did you check how many miles he put on your car? That might let you know if he took it out for a long joy ride... I would ask him if he noticed a difference in the clutch during the time he drove it... I really don't think telling him he should pay for half the clutch is the right thing to do, as someone above mentioned. Your car has a decent amount of miles and it could just be a coincidence (I've heard of clutches going out at 60k).

[jmontoya]

The whole situation is kind of complicated. The guy is around late 40's I think and drives a beat up old minivan for a DD. My dad has known him for a good 10+ years and he opened up his own shop I believe 4 years ago so he is the owner. I didn't check the mileage before I left because we didn't know he would have to take it home. Like I said for cars to get into the shop he has to setup a ramp for them to get inside but we just assumed it would clear (there were already 2 cars inside so I didn't pull it in). About an hour after I dropped it off I get a phone call saying it won't clear the ramp so he is going to take it home to his garage to do the job since it is too cold to work outside.

It doesn't seem like he drove it that much considering the gas gauge only moved a small portion, but I know on the way to his house there is quite a bit of stop lights. When I picked it up he didn’t say anything about it except that the car drives really nice. I really don’t see him as the type of person to take out my car for a joy ride but you never know. I just feel bad confronting him about it because I know I have the money for it and he isn’t very well off, plus I can’t prove he did it.

Either way, I need to get this fixed ASAP so could anyone recommend a good clutch/flywheel and a site to purchase it from? I was looking at the UUC website and saw the M5 clutch/lightweight flywheel for just under a grand but is that really the way to go?

[ohnoes]

The whole situation is kind of complicated. The guy is around late 40's I think and drives a beat up old minivan for a DD. My dad has known him for a good 10+ years and he opened up his own shop I believe 4 years ago so he is the owner. I didn't check the mileage before I left because we didn't know he would have to take it home. Like I said for cars to get into the shop he has to setup a ramp for them to get inside but we just assumed it would clear (there were already 2 cars inside so I didn't pull it in). About an hour after I dropped it off I get a phone call saying it won't clear the ramp so he is going to take it home to his garage to do the job since it is too cold to work outside.

It doesn't seem like he drove it that much considering the gas gauge only moved a small portion, but I know on the way to his house there is quite a bit of stop lights. When I picked it up he didn’t say anything about it except that the car drives really nice. I really don’t see him as the type of person to take out my car for a joy ride but you never know. I just feel bad confronting him about it because I know I have the money for it and he isn’t very well off, plus I can’t prove he did it.

Either way, I need to get this fixed ASAP so could anyone recommend a good clutch/flywheel and a site to purchase it from? I was looking at the UUC website and saw the M5 clutch/lightweight flywheel for just under a grand but is that really the way to go?

If you don't feel right doing it, don't do it. There is no point in violating your own moral code to do what a few Internet keyboard warriors suggest. :)

You really don't need a non-stock clutch unless you're going F/I. Save your money and go OEM.

[jfboy]

You put an M3 in the hand of carlos at the upholstery shop.. this is what you get.

I pulled my healiner out myslef and brought it to him. Then put it back on at my house.

[Ron97M3]

It is strange is failed right after you let somebody else have it, real unfortunate.
As long as flywheel doesn't need to bereplaced it's not that much of a loss
considering the mileage on the clutch already.

I am a afraid to give my car to a mechanic, for fear it will come back with some problem bigger than I gave it to them for. I know it happens!

[Balthazarr]

He wouldn't. But there can be a reasonable assumption of honesty when two parties have been doing business with each other for a decent amount of time...otherwise, nothing in the world would ever get done. Especially when you're dealing with a customer. :rolleyes :mad I hate customers (not the OP, just in general).

When you're a customer, do you think vendors hate you?

[ohnoes]

When you're a customer, do you think vendors hate you?

Of course. I don't consider myself above any other customers. In fact, I am often a worse and more demanding one. :)