Which Leather Conditioner?

[exdes]

So which leather conditioner do you use for the seats?
I'm trying to pick up some cleaning materials over the weekend.

I do have two bottles of lexol cleaner/conditioner but they were bought like 5 years ago. Anyone know if it is still okay to use them?

[G. P. Burdell]

For new or nearly-new leather, I suggest Spinneybeck (http://leatherz.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=01&Product_Code=SpinneyKit&Category_Code=CarCareProducts) conditioner.

The Lexol products may have separated or gone bad (or both) over the past five years.

[Steve530]

I like Leatherique Rejuvinator Oil and Pristine clean.

Note that Autogeek has a sale on a Leatherique kit until Nov 2.

[yurslow]

My brother always used Lexol on all his cars and they have lasted to this day. I just bought his 97 m3 and the leather still looks great.

[TOGWT]

Leather doesn't need a conditioner, it just needs hydration-
All cowhides are naturally oily; unfortunately, the chrome tanning process removes the natural oils and fat from the hide, reducing the hide to collagen fibres. A process called fat liquoring re-introduces the tanners own blend of balanced fats and oils back into the leather, which coats the individual fibres, sealing them into the hide; they are stable and very difficult to remove These fat liquoring formulas are closely held secrets, passed down through the generations. This is one reason why one company's leather can have a totally different feel, fragrance, texture and softness from another company's product. As the leather hides are sealed ‘locking in’ the necessary fats and oils; all that is required is the hydration of the leather to avoid it drying out.


Leather Care / Cleaning / Maintenance– These articles are written to help detailer’s make informed decisions when selecting leather care products for automobiles.

Honest opinion or merely advertising? Commercialism brings with it concerns of honesty and true representation. In other words, it’s difficult to know what is true when someone is motivated by income, i.e. directly targeted at product sales, more so than an unbiased opinion I am neither vendor, nor a salesperson pretending to be an educator, I'm a detailer / author, therefore there is no no need for hype; just to provide factual information -http://www.detailuniversity.com/

[Supraman786]

what is leather conditioner suppose to do exactly? and how good does it work?

[TOGWT]

what is leather conditioner suppose to do exactly? and how good does it work?

Its supposed to replace the lost oils in the leather hide; but as stated above the oils / fats necessary are introduced into the hide, which is then sealed , so there is no need or way to replace them.

[einszett Mike]

what is leather conditioner suppose to do exactly? and how good does it work?

Yes... more specifically...

The key for you is to use a leather cleaner/conditioner that is formulated for "finished leather". Your leather is clear coated with the same polyurethane clear that is on your paintwork. These days, as stated above, you're not conditioning the hide but in fact cleaning and maintaining the malleability of the clear coat. This significantly reduces the amount of maintenance that was once required to keep leather in good condition.

Products that are two steps (soap based cleaner and separate conditioning oil) are only valid on unfinished nude leather - which is practically non-existant in most leather goods these days. What you need to use is a product formulated to treat the polyurethane clear finish. As an example, our Leather Care "Lederpflege".

Here's more info on leather and how to properly treat it:
http://www.1z-usa.com/education_leather_care.html

Why einszett Leather Care? It doesn't leave a heavy greasy residue, no powdering around stiches or perforations in perforated leather and no heavy odor. It's also not overly aggressive so it does not have the potential of stripping the dye from finished coatings.

You can get einszett Leather Care from sponsors

Drivewerks
http://www.drivewerks.com/catalog/sh...szt-detail.htm (http://www.drivewerks.com/catalog/shopcart/CARE/POR_CARE_einszt-detail.htm)

Autogeek.net http://www.autogeek.net/1z-einzett-products.html.

Hope this helps!

[nickdeck]

Your leather is clear coated with the same polyurethane clear that is on your paintwork.

Where are you getting this information? OK, maybe it comes that way from the factory, although I doubt it.

[einszett Mike]

This is a well known fact... it's called finished leather or semi-aniline and has been the process for at least 20 years.

When you apply conditioning oils on the surface of finished leather, it doesn't penetrate the surface because of the clear. This is why people complain that they slip and slide on the leather. Put a drop of water on the leather and if it's finished, it will remain on the surface. Place it on unfinished leather (without a clear, aka "aniline" leather) and it will immediately penetrate and darken.

Different variety of leather produced by GST auto leather (a major supplier of automotive leather)

http://www.gstautoleather.com/automotive_leather_products/options_automotive_leather.asp

Leather is not only finished but is embossed with a grain pattern to resemble natural hide.

Hope this answers your question.

[WolfStrong]

Man there is a lot of false information floating around with leather...

Not all leathers are sealed; many leathers found in cars, depending on the car, have both coated and uncoated leathers. For the most part, much of BMWs that I have worked on have uncoated leather, which is obvious when you use a stronger leather cleaner like Zymol and it will actually strip the dye right off the leather. Newer BMWs may have changed this with their 'heat resistant' coating, but for all BMWs pre 2003 I have found them to be uncoated. My old Maxima on the other hand, had coated leather where it seems to be more resistant to such strong cleaners and spills for that matter. This isn't to say that the leather is overall more durable though, as each tanner has a different way of dealing with leather durability (whether that be special oils or coating).

UV rays are leather's worst enemy. Nothing (inside of normal usage) will destroy a leather faster than UV rays and again, the BMW to the Maxima is the perfect example. My e34 has 'factory protected' windows which means that the windows are pre-treated with a UV-resistant coating that can not be removed (it is actually part of the window) while the Maxima did not. The Maxima had tint in the back, but not the front windows instead. Both cars were kept outside their whole life, and the BMW was only 3 years newer, however the difference between the condition of the leather was night and day. On the Maxima, the seats in the back were still in amazingly nice condition, whereas in the front they were hard as rock and cracked to no end. The Bimmer's factory protection on the windows did actually help the seats on the inside stay remarkably soft and here is the kicker; neither the BMW or Nissan were taken care of with leather cleaner/conditioners.

To add to this, leather is a very porous thing where naturally, there are a lot of proteins in it. During the tanning process, these proteins are removed which takes away most of the leather's ability to protect itself and to be soft. Tanners then introduce oils to take the place of these proteins, which as TOGWT mentioned is a secret to each tanner. Coated or uncoated, these oils will eventually get out whether it is from being rubbed onto your pants, or the #1 killer, UV rays evaporating them. The purpose of a leather conditioner is to replace these oils and add UV protection to help keep them there.

[einszett Mike]

Man there is a lot of false information floating around with leather...

The purpose of a leather conditioner is to replace these oils and add UV protection to help keep them there.

These are two statements that fall into that category of false information. The romance of rubbing conditioning oils in leather is a thing of the past. You'll be hard pressed to find unfinished leather in cars these days.

Leather manufacturers will apply finishes at varying degree of thicknesses based on the vehicle category. High-end vehicle owners expect supple leather... therefore, finish is applied at a very thin degree.

Low end vehicles or utility get thicker applications because of the expected wear and tear.

Adding UV protection... the only UV protection is in the finish itself. Leather conditioners, despite claims, do not contain UV protectants. One manufacturer claims to include an SPF protectant in their product. SPF as in "skin protection factor". SPF is not applicable to anything but human skin.

If you need further confirmation about leather, contact a leather repair shop and ask. They'll be able to answer all of your questions in an unbiased manner. :)

[uncle]

You car is new, so this is what I would do. Keep it clean. Use the Lexol products you have provided they are still good. These will work fine.
If you decide not to use the Lexol products for one reason or another, and decide to purchsed new stuff, do yourself (and the future owner of your car) a favor, buy the Leatherique products and use it about twice a year.
You can listen to all of these claims, unfounded mumbo jumbo, or whatever. But once you try the Leatherique products you will understand.

[WolfStrong]

These are two statements that fall into that category of false information. The romance of rubbing conditioning oils in leather is a thing of the past. You'll be hard pressed to find unfinished leather in cars these days.

Leather manufacturers will apply finishes at varying degree of thicknesses based on the vehicle category. High-end vehicle owners expect supple leather... therefore, finish is applied at a very thin degree.

Low end vehicles or utility get thicker applications because of the expected wear and tear.

Adding UV protection... the only UV protection is in the finish itself. Leather conditioners, despite claims, do not contain UV protectants. One manufacturer claims to include an SPF protectant in their product. SPF as in "skin protection factor". SPF is not applicable to anything but human skin.

If you need further confirmation about leather, contact a leather repair shop and ask. They'll be able to answer all of your questions in an unbiased manner. :)
Right....

Go ahead and contact BMW yourself and find out if they recommend leather cleaner/conditioner on their leathers, and I do not mean the pesky no-nothing stealerships.

[rcem3]

Right....

Go ahead and contact BMW yourself and find out if they recommend leather cleaner/conditioner on their leathers, and I do not mean the pesky no-nothing stealerships.
The dealerships as of now do not have a BMW brand leather conditioner any more because they are developing a new formula due to problems with the previous one. Some dealerships use lexol which can also be found at ACE. Personally, I use zymol "leather treat" which I have not found any where except online (bavauto and many companies sell it). I found a zymol product called "leather conditioner" but I am not sure how good it is. I think it be a cheaper version of the "leather treat". I have used "leather treat" and after 30 min I can tell that the leather is much softer and has expanded again (compared to the leather contracting when drying out).

[NeonStatus]

Interesting thread. A bunch of good info.

[WolfStrong]

I would also like to clearify, as I mentioned in my first post, "Newer BMWs may have changed this with their 'heat resistant' coating, but for all BMWs pre 2003 I have found them to be uncoated" as reading back through this, I think this is where the confusion came off of my post. My experience is with anything earlier than e46/e39/e38 as I know BMW is infact putting a coating on their leather making it not get hot from the sun, including on black leather. This new coating is probably going to change how many leather cleaners work with it and will probably make the leather much more resistant to UV rays, but the concept is still there that leather does need to be conditioned once in awhile; you just need to find the right conditioner for your leather.

[TOGWT]

These are two statements that fall into that category of false information. The romance of rubbing conditioning oils in leather is a thing of the past. You'll be hard pressed to find unfinished leather in cars these days.

Leather manufacturers will apply finishes at varying degree of thicknesses based on the vehicle category. High-end vehicle owners expect supple leather... therefore, finish is applied at a very thin degree.

Low end vehicles or utility get thicker applications because of the expected wear and tear.

Adding UV protection... the only UV protection is in the finish itself. Leather conditioners, despite claims, do not contain UV protectants. One manufacturer claims to include an SPF protectant in their product. SPF as in "skin protection factor". SPF is not applicable to anything but human skin.

If you need further confirmation about leather, contact a leather repair shop and ask. They'll be able to answer all of your questions in an unbiased manner. :)

Mike, Thank you for an unbiased opinion on leather care, you are the first product vendor that has not argued (and that's the polite version) against using a conditioner on covered leather. Kudos

[TOGWT]

I would also like to clearify, as I mentioned in my first post, "Newer BMWs may have changed this with their 'heat resistant' coating, but for all BMWs pre 2003 I have found them to be uncoated" as reading back through this, I think this is where the confusion came off of my post. My experience is with anything earlier than e46/e39/e38 as I know BMW is infact putting a coating on their leather making it not get hot from the sun, including on black leather. This new coating is probably going to change how many leather cleaners work with it and will probably make the leather much more resistant to UV rays, but the concept is still there that leather does need to be conditioned once in awhile; you just need to find the right conditioner for your leather.

That's the reasoning behind the opening statement of these articles, published to try to end the confusion and marketing hype on the subject of leather care . . .

There are three main types: Natural (Uncovered) Covered and Unfinished (Nubuck)
Before using a leather care product a detailer needs to know the material they are working on, and wither the product chosen is compatible with the material and will not damage it. Diagnosis is the key, not guess work. Before deciding on what products to use you need to ascertain what type of leather finish you have and wither the leather has a polyurethane covering, or is (un-coated) natural leather, as the cleaning / maintenance varies as to type; although they all require a water-based product to re-hydrate, a suede type leather like Nubuck is the exception.

[TOGWT]

Where are you getting this information? OK, maybe it comes that way from the factory, although I doubt it.

1. Leather (Covered):
Many people are unaware of the fact that since the late ‘80s early ‘90s many of the newer domestic cars and some imports (US) do not use natural leather hides anymore. Approximately 80% of vehicle manufacturers have used covered leather for their interior upholstery. It’s made from natural hides, chrome tanned and uniquely treated with a light pigmented urethane paint coating or a vinyl covering to make it more viable for automotive seating. It retains the softness of natural top-grain leather but resists fading in direct sunlight, which besides body oil is leathers worst enemy.

The complex tanning process of chromed tanned hides results in the fat liquoring and oils necessary to keep the hide soft and pliable being locked in, this is further sealed by a durable polyethylene covering to protect the hide from abrasion from clothing as well as the dust / dirt introduced by the vehicle’s AC system.

This type of automotive upholstery finish should not be considered as a leather hide as far as care and its maintenance is concerned, but treated as a vinyl, only requiring that you maintain its moisture and protect it from ultra violet (UV) radiation. A water-based cleaner will permeate the polyurethane covering as its molecules are much smaller (oil has larger molecules than water and are unable to penetrate so oil will just sit on the surface) As the top surface has a high polyurethane finish normal leather creams should NOT be used.

[nickdeck]

Mike and TOGWT,

I'll bow to your experience and knowledge on this, but I'm curious.

How do the Leatherique products fit into the scheme of things? It's almost universally recommended as the best, on this forum and others. Since it contains no petroleum products, is it able to penetrate this polyurethane coating that you say is on almost all modern car leather?

[TOGWT]

Technology progresses and we must try to keep pace with it, oil-based products have been surpassed.

I had always advocated the oil-based Leatherequi leather care products as the most advanced but after attending various seminar's and some intensive hands-on as well as theoretical training in leather care (inc tanning, care, restoration and preservation) and I would like to share the knowledge / experience gained to help dispel the hype and myths surrounding automotive leather care

[exdes]

hmm
I think I'll go with the leatherique...

[Steve530]

hmm
I think I'll go with the leatherique...

FWIW, Leatherique Rejuvinator Oil soaks into the Montana leather on my 2001 e39 pretty well.

[sscorpsman]

This is a well known fact... it's called finished leather or semi-aniline and has been the process for at least 20 years.

When you apply conditioning oils on the surface of finished leather, it doesn't penetrate the surface because of the clear. This is why people complain that they slip and slide on the leather. Put a drop of water on the leather and if it's finished, it will remain on the surface. Place it on unfinished leather (without a clear, aka "aniline" leather) and it will immediately penetrate and darken.

Different variety of leather produced by GST auto leather (a major supplier of automotive leather)

http://www.gstautoleather.com/automotive_leather_products/options_automotive_leather.asp

Leather is not only finished but is embossed with a grain pattern to resemble natural hide.

Hope this answers your question.So I have a 1995. My vaders are in good shape but starting to go down hill. Do I re dye them or what am I suposed to use?

[Dayp]

just use armour-all leather care stuff. its a spray for leather, i also use the gel, give it the black shinny look back without a greasy feel.