Calif Smog to do evaporative test on 1995 and older cars.

[Ron97M3]

Calif Smog will do evaporative tests on 1995 and older carsas of Nov 1st!

Read this ...
http://delphi.com/news/pressReleases/pr_2007_07_31_001/

which in part says ...
TROY, Mich. — In response to new emissions regulation pending in the state of California, today Delphi Corp. (OTC:DPHIQ) announced the industry's only hand held portable Low Pressure Fuel Emissions Test (LPFET) diagnostic tool, the Delphi EVAP 2010. This new emissions regulation, which is scheduled to take effect on Nov. 1, 2007, requires all California Smog Check stations to conduct a low pressure evaporative test on 1995 or older model vehicles subject to the Smog Check program — affecting approximately 7 million vehicles. All testing stations will need to purchase a tool to conduct these new tests in order to remain licensed.

FYI when I was having my 97 m3 tested at a smog only station in July I overheard the testing guy telling another customer thathe expected 2/3rds of the cars to fail this new evap test in November.

I am happy to hear they apparently will not be testing my car but 95 and older OBD-I cars? My 97 had a evap leak by a poorly designed fuel expansion tank that I replaced. Anyway I figure 95 M3s and older BMWs will be having this problem is spades perhaps.

[M3x415]

dayam that sucks for all people w/ cars year 1995 and lower.

I heard that all 2005 or 2006 model cars only have to be smogged once every 10 yrs.
And all 2000-2003 or 2004 cars only have to be smogged once every 5 yrs.
Any car older then 2000 have to be smogged once every 2 years?
correct if I am wrong.

[Ron97M3]

YEP I just looked up on realoem (see below) and a 95 M3 has an fuel pressurization tank BUT no sensor for a leak test like OBD-II cars.

See 1995 with tank but no sensor
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BF93&mospid=47486&btnr=16_0313&hg=16&fg=10

Looks like S52 engines sometime in 96+ have the sensor which would warn of a leak via CE. As mine did

See 1997 with tank and sensor
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BG93&mospid=47488&btnr=16_0214&hg=16&fg=10

So I predict 1995 and older BMWs will be having a lot of emissions test failures in california because of the new pressure test detecting a cracked nipple on the upper outside of the fuel expansion tank. Stay tuned.

Anybody here have a 95 M3 with a smog test after Nov 1st? If you can do it before Nov !st that might be smart. Beware after november !st you need to
go to a place that offers a second test free if you can. If you then fail for the new pressure test it is a good bet it's the expansion tank that needs replacing. Or you should hope that is ALL it is, if it is somewhere else good
luck I haven't a clue!

[Ron97M3]

I have had to take my car in every 2 years here in California and they
have made me go to a slightly more expensive TEST ONLY station.

I had the cracked evap tank but for years couldn't find the leak. Finally
I found a poster here that had two 97s than confirmed it was the expansion tank as I suspected.

They make car models/years go to TEST ONLY stations when they know
statistically they see a lot of failures in those years! So guess what they
KNOW these cars have the pressure issue (cracked nipple on tank) in essence.

Now cars without the sensor will all of a sudden discover they have a problem
that the CE light doesn't indicate! OH joy.

I think I better open EVAP smog fixing INC ASAP.

[TC535i]

If it's just a cracked nipple, how can we self test? I'm sure you could just jb weld a crack shut...

[GG///M3]

hmmm does this also include NY?

[Ron97M3]

Reference this diagram

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BG93&mospid=47488&btnr=16_0214&hg=16&fg=10

See the #4s this is where the nipples are. The upper outside nipple is the one that failed on mine and I believe that is the stress point of likely failure.
I believe you will see the replacement tank has a better nipple design which
must help prevent this known weakness, go figure.

The nipple neck between the tank and clamped hose is where it was cracked on mine, eventually the last check it literally broke and fell out when I pulled down the tank. When I checked early on I smelled gas flumes when I opened the hatch on the wheel well I think this is a BIG indicator you are in the right spot!

I couldn't really see the problem early when it was still a small leak as the tank was put in with hoses such that you couldn't pull it down to inspect clearly. But I could feel with a finger nail the crack. Perhaps a little mechanics mirror and a flashlight might help here! I tried patching with putty epoxy first but that didn't hold or work for long. Only solution is to replace the tank.

[Ron97M3]

If I had a 1995 of older BMW going for a California smog test.

I would go to a place which offers a second test free.

I also would open my wheel well hatch and put my nose in it IF I smelled
gas I would assume I likely had the problem in there on the expansion tank.

[K2sfc]

If someone does go get a smog check before they get their notice. make sure you go to a test only to be safe.

[Ron97M3]

I don't think you get credit for smog testing early.

But you have a window once notified for yor test coming due. If someones window was right here in October-November and they had a 1995 or earlier I would be going in October to avoid the new evap test in November.

Once November comes I would make sure I go to a second test free TEST only station. I would expect to fail the test for the evap problem.

[Rennmeister M3]

Yay, another reason not to live in California.

[Ron97M3]

and it will be for 1995 and older cars.

Man-o-man lots of cars will fail. It will also be difficult to fix it because you
can't find a low pressure AIR leak even if you can detect one.

Sure am glad I don't own a OBD-I car here now.

Goods news is on the BMWs it's likely the expansion tank, God help you
if it isn't to be found there!

I am thinking of opening a SMOG LEAK and AUTO CODES inc.
offering to fix evap leaks and give you the codes for advanced problems like
ABS issues. Crazy?

[GotBHP?]

Good thing I just got mine done last week. :help

[Volf]

Yay, another reason not to live in California.

+1

[Hugo]

One more reason not to live in Cali. I laugh at your collective misfortune.

[Mr.M]

I bet more pollution results from driving to the smog station and repair shops and the carbon producing manufacture of parts to fix minor evaporative leaks than is saved by fixing them.

socialists :rolleyes

[Ron97M3]

and let the undocumented workers all work for min. wage.

Who cares about the costs of government, somebody can borrow more,
and the FEDs can print still more.

Let the party continue!

[Sadiq]

Shit. So now the list of states never to live in looks like this:

VA (horrendous speeding fines)
TX (crappy)
CA (new smog test, fires, transvestites)

Too bad I ain't ever leaving SoCal :(

[Ron97M3]

I know they will be testing 1995 and older cars for fuel evap pressure leaks.
But I don't know how far back they will be going. If they go back to 1975? which is as far as smog testing goes I would bet a ton of those really old cars will leak all over. Ii would cause lots and lots of order cars to go to the crusher
of course auto sales would be helped go figure.

Guess I will have to ask the smog guy how far they are going back.

I bet the next step is they will start testing for leaks on 96+ OBD-II cars, these
cars test themselves but they only can determine a small leak in hundreds of miles this then allows the owners to get by the testing if he clears the CE light
and drives 50 miles without a CE before taking for testing. Can't have that!

BMW service will LOVE the extra $expensive$ business. I saw a poster that was quoted $965 for fixing his evap problem. A real RIPOFF IMHO.

[SQ Bimmer]

Damn.

[Rennmeister M3]

Shit. So now the list of states never to live in looks like this:

VA (horrendous speeding fines)
TX (crappy)
CA (new smog test, fires, transvestites)

Too bad I ain't ever leaving SoCal :(

Yes Texas sucks... now never come here.

We have too many Californians as it is.

[Ron97M3]

SQ bimmer I see your in the target zone! I feel your pain.
Just hope if you have a leak it's in the expansion tank where you can find and
fix it.

I surely would plan on going to a test only station which offers a free retest.
Once you fail open the wheel well hatch and use your nose if you smell gas fumes then it likely the tank and actually that is good news. At least better than a leak only the stealership can find!

[Balthazarr]

There's a limit of expense to fixing emissions system set forth by law, AFAIR.

[racer m]

this makes me love fla even more b/c it is a non-emission state

[JETninja]

So what's the big deal, replace the tank? I had my smog done 2 months ago. Having been born and lived here in SoCal since 1959 (did spend 1 yr in Guadalajara and 1 in Everett, WA) I've seen the huge improvement on our air quality. Smog that used to extend every day to Colton has move 20m closer to its origin in LA (and its particulate trapping ring of mountains). Every little bit helps in our car crazy culture here. I do hate the stupid 5 gallon gas containers we have to use for the lawnmower (they tend to always spill way more than the original design did!) but I'd rather be here then in your tornado/hurricane/blizzard/95% Humidity States. :D

In late '08 I'll take a look. Replace it if required. Not like I never have to replace things on this car, specially the plastic ones......

[Ron97M3]

There's a limit of expense to fixing emissions system set forth by law, AFAIR.

What are the rules and the limit is the question.

So lets say every two years you can't pass smog so what is the limit?
Do you have to spend this every two years as you can't pass?
Just how does this limit work in the real smog testing world?

Glad you bought this up Balthazarr I was going to bring this up.

Guess it's another question to ask the SMOG testing guy.

[Ron97M3]

So what's the big deal, replace the tank?

The big deal is if you have a leak of AIR-GAS you can't necessarily find that
and perhaps only a very expensive expert with an expensive mach8ine can. So it may be very expensive to find. Your at the mercy of the $stealership$ and
you can prove nothing. That is all, it's just money.

[Ron97M3]

Since the owner of a OBD-I car has no sensor on the fuel pressure
he can't know when a leak of pressure first occurs.

Therefore someone could poke a hole, loosen a clamp etc in your fuel pressure system causing a pressure leak and you wouldn't know you had a leak til your next smog check months or years away. A mechanic now has a great way to encourage you bring him money after your next smog check!

You know here in California they believe a number of the fires were set by expert(s). In the past there have been firemen that set the fires they than
put out. Sort of the same concept here is now possible.

[Ron97M3]

I found the offical FAQ about the new EVAP testing here
smogcheck.ca.gov/ftp/pdfdocs/LPFETFAQ.pdf

Key text in this pdf was ...
---
1976 to 1995 model year vehicles will be tested, which includes all pre-OBDII vehicles subject to Smog Check.
---

30. Which 1976 to 1995 model-year vehicles would be excepted from this test?

Vehicles not originally equipped, and not required by state or federal law to be equipped, with a fuel evaporation control system;
Vehicles with two or more fully operational fuel tanks;
Vehicles powered exclusively by compressed natural gas (CNG), liquid natural gas (LNG) or liquid petroleum gas (LPG);
Vehicles for which there are no filler neck adapters;
Vehicles in their original factory configuration, with a fuel evaporative canister and fuel vapor hoses that are not accessible or would require the partial dismantling of the vehicle in order to gain access to them for testing.
The technician shall note the vehicle’s canister location on the Vehicle Inspection Report for these vehicles.

---
The state of Delaware has been performing the low-pressure test and has advised BAR that almost half the repairs are hose and tubing replacements. In addition, 50 percent of the failing vehicles diagnosed during testing by ARB required only hose or tubing replacement.

---
Consumers whose vehicles fail their biennial Smog Check may qualify for BAR’s Consumer Assistance Program (CAP), which helps motorist with repair costs or pays them to retire (scrap) their vehicle.

44. What is the impact on the current cost waiver and buy back programs?

None. Failing the low-pressure test could qualify the vehicle’s owner for a repair cost waiver, repair assistance or the vehicle retirement program, just like a failing tailpipe, functional, or visual inspection.

[Ron97M3]

Apparently to help out, the State of Ca. setup the "gold shield" smog station in 2003. These stations can do "test only" and repair your problem too.

I was told by a test only station, that a Gold Shield station will be able to find
and fix the evap leaks.

I called a gold sheild station near me I found using this link
http://smogcheck.ca.gov/stationlist/stationlist.aspx?GoldShield=Yes

The helpful guy I talked to there said they weren't able to find the leaks yet
but they would have the equipment by december to find evap leaks.
I told him where the 3 series leaks are typically found and he was happy
to know that. Perhaps thay MAY save some BMW owners some money I hope.

I told this guy that the setup on this would allow someone to sabotage a car
and the owner then could not know he was sabotaged ever. The guy agreed.

[LuxoM3]

Just checking in on this thread...

I had my 1995 BMW M3 (11/95 build) smogged this week.... BARELY made it. All tests passed well except one.... the at idle HC max is 158. I got a 158. Whew!

For the EVAP test... (this is my second time). They put a modified gas cap on my car, and measured. No wince from the SMOG tech, so something tells me the 95's are in decent shape.

[RotaryBzzz]

data point: the 95's fail b/k of a common leaking fuel-level sensor assembly above the driver's-side gas tank. Mine was leaking and I was freaking out about the new evap test for smog until I did the fix.

All in all, the fix was sub $100 with parts. (if I recall correctly). <2hr's to fix. I imagine as more e36's keep aging, this will become more common.

The side bonus was my gas mileage increased about 5%.

Second data point: my car is a 6/94 built garage queen. Very low UV/heat cycling over time.
Third data point: my car, after passing smog by a wide margin, went from Test-Only status to "any-station-okay" status. I have a perfect pass history with no close-call tests.

[cliffhopper]

old thread is old...

[EastBayBimmer]

Just checking in on this thread...

I had my 1995 BMW M3 (11/95 build) smogged this week.... BARELY made it. All tests passed well except one.... the at idle HC max is 158. I got a 158. Whew!

For the EVAP test... (this is my second time). They put a modified gas cap on my car, and measured. No wince from the SMOG tech, so something tells me the 95's are in decent shape.

I had a smog test on my car recently, and it was exempt from the EVAP test :dunno Mine is 1/95 FWIW

Passed like it was nothing, just took it for a 20 minute drive on the highway.

[mdok]

I had a smog test on my car recently, and it was exempt from the EVAP test :dunno Mine is 1/95 FWIW

Passed like it was nothing, just took it for a 20 minute drive on the highway.

mine was exempted EVAP also, tech said something about BMW being too hard to get at the appropriate hardware. I failed HC in idle on a pretest, so I ran it hard on a backroad for a bit, came back, went right through. Cat was hot! 9/95 manu date