Newb - PC and Rotary.

[M0nK3y]

Ive searched before posting this, and im still confused.

Well, its gotten to a point where 5 hours of detailing my car with my own hands is getting to much for me. I want to look into buying a PC or Rotary.

First, is PC and Rotary the same? If not, which one is better? Do both have exchangable pads for different jobs. Such as scratches and waxing?

Also. With these pads on Autogeek, I saw that they have different colors, like orange, white, black. Are these different grits for different jobs?

Last question. I relize that a PC/Rotary is expensive. But ive looked at a local hardware store and seen buffers. These are only like 30 dollars?! But they have like bonnets for waxing and that. And I doubt that these will do anything for scratch removal.

What is the major difference between a buffer, PC and rotary.

Thanks

-Kyle

[nickdeck]

First, is PC and Rotary the same?

Nope. The PC is a random orbital buffer, which means that its circular motion moves around randomly, not staying in any one spot. This means that heat doesn't build up quickly and burn your paint. A rotary buffer rotates in the same place all the time, which means that you WILL burn your paint unless you know how to use it. The rotary is much more aggressive, and may be necessary for some types of paint correction, but should only be used carefully by someone who has been trained in its use.

As for the different colors of the pads, they correspond to how much "cut" the pad has. Which one to use with which types of products is outlined on the Autogeek site.

[M0nK3y]

Ok, so a noob like me should look into a PC. Now can pads be exchanged on that? I looked at a couple of them and it looks like the pads are a couple of inches in diameter wide. Do these pads replace the whole bottom part, like the foam part and that?

Sorry for my noob questions

[nickdeck]

Now can pads be exchanged on that?

If you mean "are they interchangeable?", yes. The base plate on the machine is velcro, and the pads have velcro backings.

I should add that I've never used a Porter Cable. About the time that I was deciding to buy a random orbital, the Ultimate Detailing Machine came out. It's like a PC clone, only more powerful. Not "powerful" in the sense that it can burn your paint any more than a PC; It's virtually impossible to burn your paint with either of them, but the UDM supposedly doesn't bog down as easily as the PC. The UDM is about $50 more, but IMO, worth it. I bought mine from AutoGeek, in a package that included several pads and other miscellaneous stuff, but you can also buy direct from the ultimatedetailingmachine.com web site, if you prefer.

[aced2424]

rotary machines are buffers that are faster and more powerful than random orbit buffers. they also follow a consistent path, which may lead to burns in the paint, although unlikely. the porter cable is an affordable random orbit buffer that has interchangeable pads for different softness. i suggest using lake country pads. the PC can be used to polish and wax the car and is much easier than doing it by hand. the pads are cheap and replaceable. you should check out autogeek.net and look at some of the detailing tips there

[BuckNaked]

PC stands for Porter Cable. They make power tools and offer several rotary buffers/polishers.
When you see PC used for detailing, it'sd usually referring to the Dual action Porter Cable 7424 6-inch polisher.
AutoGeek.net is a sponsor on these forums, and has developed a better mousetrap, namely the Ultimate Detailing Machine. Check it out.
I bought the PC7424 about 2 months before the UDM came out, paid $107 shipped for it and bought Lake Country pads and backing plate. I have been satisfied with it, but I wish I would have waited for the UDm. Between the PC and pads and the compounds, micro fiber towels and applicators and mitt and buckets and... I probably spent $300.
But my car looks amazing and I did it myself!

[M0nK3y]

alright, thanks for all your help. Ill look into the UDM

[M0nK3y]

Ok another question. How many uses can I get out for each pad, like an orange pad for example

[SHWELL]

The pads last a long time depending on care and use. IF you keep them clean and stred correctly (Off the ground) they can last a very long time. My answers are assuming that you are noyt going to be using them for professional work. But for a weekend warrior I could see them lasting a couple years if cared for...

Keeping them clean in between uses
I use certain pads for certain compounds
I store them in Gallon sized Ziplock bags
Never let them touch the ground


I have had my current se for 6 months and have detailed about 8 cars (Family) and they still look good as new after cleaning...

Check out autogeek.net for info on the products/pads and also on how to use the PC.... www.showcardetailing.com (http://www.showcardetailing.com) also sells a comprehensive DVD on how to use the PC.... Good luck, and hope we have helped you on your way...

And the PC and tthe UDM are basically the same thing with the exception of torque. So all the items avail for the PC work with the UDM....


After you get it, post pics of the b4 and after....

[nickdeck]

Ditto on keeping the pads clean, and on not mixing products with them. Also, I've heard that you should avoid very hot water when cleaning them. It can make the glue that holds them together melt.

[SHWELL]

The Lake Country pads handle the hot water much better than the Meg's pads.. The Neg's pads are the only ones that have failed on me to date in this way... They are wonderful pads, but the Velcro backing adhesive is the weak link in them... There are tutorial on cleaning pads online as well.....


*Quik note: I never clean them in the washing machine..... I use a bucket of fairly warm water and dish washing liquid and let is sit over nite..... Rinse and let dry.... I have at least 3 of the pads in each color I use so I aways have a clean one avail at any time...

[M0nK3y]

Thanks for the help, I thank you all

[paul e]

Monk3y not to confuse you any more, the PC is also often referred to as a DA machine, with DA standing for 'Dual Action' .. OFten times, youll see those 30 dollar machines you referred to as true Random Orbital machines, whereas youll see the PC referred to as a DA machine, to help differentiate it from the cheaper less effective ones with the random orbital description.. All Dual Action means is that the pad both Spins AND moves in random eccentric patterns. While its moving in the eccentric pattern, its also spinning.. If you press down hard on the machine, the first thing youll notice is that the spinning will stop, so keep an eye on the pressure. Ive found that the PC machines can remove most of the damage the rotaries will remove, only it will take considerably longer to do so, and, you would want to use a more aggressive pad in order to get the same effect a less aggresive pad would deliver on the rotary.

Bottom line is, the PC or the UDM are both excellent machines for the vast majority of people for the vast majority of paint issues. Have fun!!

[simracer]

And yes, you are correct. The $30 buffers won't do much of anything other than spread product around. Might be okay for spreading wax, but that's about it.

[SHWELL]

Ditto, el cheapos are good for Wax application and quik removal if that is what you want...

[M0nK3y]

I want scratch removable. So a UDM would be the best choice

[paul e]

I want scratch removable. So a UDM would be the best choice

Because it has a little more power than the basic PC, people say it will bog less under pressure.. Although, I have the PC and Ive never had a bogging issue with it... What happens is if you put over something like 25 lbs of pressure on the device, the first thing you notice is that the spinning part of the Dual Action stops.. The eccentric orbits keep right up, but the spinning in place of the pads will slow down or stop. And I dont know if the added power will do anything about that, not that its a big deal when it happens. Most of the action comes from the random orbits, not the spinning. On a speed of 6, Ive leaned on the machine quite a bit, and dont recall having it bog down at all. Still, if I were in the market today, I might be tempted to get the more powerful one, although, as I said, its really not needed.

[AlpineCI]

what products do you guys use with the UDM. i'm thinkin about pickin one up, because having your car detailed is nice, but costly to say the least. also, after washing my car up real nice, i feel a sense of pride, or accomplishment.

also, I plan to wash my car pretty regularly (weekly). ive read some products should only be used monthly. any input?

[Ryan328i]

what products do you guys use with the UDM. i'm thinkin about pickin one up, because having your car detailed is nice, but costly to say the least. also, after washing my car up real nice, i feel a sense of pride, or accomplishment.

also, I plan to wash my car pretty regularly (weekly). ive read some products should only be used monthly. any input?

I have a PC not the UDM but product selection would still be the same. Which products you use depends on what you're trying to accomplish. I have many different ones depending on if I'm tyring to remove scratches, swirl marks, oxidation, just polishing, applying wax, etc. Spending a few hours cleaning your car and standing back to look at your work is a great feeling.

What products should only be used monthly? As far as washing goes as long as you're using a dedicated "car wash" and not dish soap I see no problem washing weekly. I wouldn't suggest taking a UDM or PC to your paint every weekend but even then it depends on what products you're using.

If you have more questions feel free to PM.

[jladdm3]

Very interested in this information... it would be great if someone knowledgeable would take the time to explain all this. maybe in a dedicated thread? (and idiot proof it). I think a lot of people would benefit.
what pads to use for what.
what compounds/products to use for what.
polishing, scratch/swirl removal, applying and removing wax.

I know that there was a "detailing 101" thread... maybe there should be a PC/UDM 101?

just my 2 cents

[M0nK3y]

what products do you guys use with the UDM. i'm thinkin about pickin one up, because having your car detailed is nice, but costly to say the least. also, after washing my car up real nice, i feel a sense of pride, or accomplishment.

also, I plan to wash my car pretty regularly (weekly). ive read some products should only be used monthly. any input?

If i were you, id would start at hand detailing, which I am doing right now.

I use this setup.

Turtle Wax Soap.
Meguairs Clay Kit
Meguiars QD
Meguiars 3 step process:
Paint cleaner
Paint Polish
Carbuna Wax
Turtle Wax ICE (For plastic tail lights and head lights)
Stoner Invisible Glass
Mothers Back to Black (faded moldings)
Meguiars NXT tire Shine (best stuff)

All together this takes me around 5 hours to do my car. It protects it up to around a couple months, But every weekend I wash and use the QD for touch up...........

When I do get a UDM or PC, i will look into getting pinnacal items. Those seem to do a better job when its on a PC or UDM....