Hello all, took some action on the angrypancake issue....

[Callum]

Good day. I'm a long time member on another forum and, if you haven't guessed yet, was ripped of by Nathaniel Moore. My user name over there is Dave M if anyone cares to have a look. If you have any questions or great ideas, please feel free to pm me on either forum.

FWIW, I submitted a report via complaint.ic3.gov. A portion of the report is as follows. I believe we would get much more attention if a number of folks did the same. It only takes a few minutes. If someone knows a better way to make a collective effort in order to bust some balls, please let us know.

Does anyone have more personal info on Nat? Can someone get his IP addresws or phone #. If possible, I'll post this on bimmerforums today.

Portion of content submitted:

Agreed to purchase a bmw car part via an online bmw forum. The part in question is commonly known as a DME, ECU, engine control unit or engine computer. The unit controls engine function.

The individual was/is a well known member of the on-line forum (place URLs here). I sent the funds ($90 U.S.)via PayPal on Jan 11th (PayPal ID #1HK00254PF7449543).

Approximately two weeks following payment, I sent a number of e-mail messages as I hadn't received the part. The first few were replied to with the excuse that the part would be sent 'shortly'. Nathaniel stated that he was busy moving back to his residence at a College in New York State. Nathaniel obviously know the period within which a PayPal complaint could be submitted as he quit replying to e-mail and phone messages after the period expired. Unfortunately, I have misplaced his phone #.

It is important to note that many other individuals have been 'victimized' by Nathaniel (see website links below). An collective effort may be made in the near future to report on all possible 'bad transactions' involving Nathaniel Moore. Inevitabley, the information available on Nathaniel will increase with additional involvement. The total amount of money involved will definitely be in the thousands of dollars.


Thanks for reading,

Dave M
__________________

[CWB]

thats awsome! He never ripped me off, but shure has alot of people on here.

I hope he really gets whats coming to him

[4500 RPM]

Finally, somebody grew a sack.

I've said it before, stop posting on the damn forum and do something about it, everyone! Call the local PD. Just make phone calls and browse on Fed. websites. Be a reporter, call and call and call until you get attention. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

Nice job, Dave!

[///Metal]

Hmmm - I came really close to buying a set of yellow Hellas from him. Glad I didn't.

[BuckNaked]

I would talk to the postmaster/manager of my local post office regarding mail fraud. This is why I use USPS issued money orders for online purchases. Paypal answers to no one, I don't trust them. Next to T-men and the IRS, the Inspection Service of the USPS is a very powerful law enforcement agency, and extremely effective.
Something to think about when you make your next purchase.

[4500 RPM]

I would talk to the postmaster/manager of my local post office regarding mail fraud. This is why I use USPS issued money orders for online purchases. Paypal answers to no one, I don't trust them. Next to T-men and the IRS, the Inspection Service of the USPS is a very powerful law enforcement agency, and extremely effective.
Something to think about when you make your next purchase.

Very true. Mail fraud is serious business since you involve the Federal Gov't. They don't like to be f'ed with.

I always do USPS money orders.

[Antrieb]

:handclap

Now who else is there?

[Goat128]

thats a very good point, interstate commce and mail fraud is handled by the FBI and is considered a felony.

[atl530i]

Glad to see someone is taking some action.

[MacR]

Glad to see someone is taking some action.

+1

[Callum]

Thanks for supportive words folks. Thanks as well to Antrieb who has kept me in loop regarding Nat's whereabouts and whomever posted the website to file the 'complaint'.

However, I do recognize some names here and understand there are many others in the same boat. If you could spare a few minutes, please do the same. I fear that a single complaint will do little. $hit, maybe ten will do little, but we don't know unless we try.

In the least, we'll figure out whether this method of 'retribution' is valid. In the very least, Mr. Moore can sit back and watch his name get further tarnished and posssibly clench his a$$ cheeks for a moment. In the very very least, its another thread to check from time to time ;)

Over and out,

Dave

[ghostryder35]

Thanks for supportive words folks. Thanks as well to Antrieb who has kept me in loop regarding Nat's whereabouts and whomever posted the website to file the 'complaint'.

However, I do recognize some names here and understand there are many others in the same boat. If you could spare a few minutes, please do the same. I fear that a single complaint will do little. $hit, maybe ten will do little, but we don't know unless we try.

In the least, we'll figure out whether this method of 'retribution' is valid. In the very least, Mr. Moore can sit back and watch his name get further tarnished and posssibly clench his a$$ cheeks for a moment. In the very very least, its another thread to check from time to time ;)

Over and out,

Dave
Agreed :)

[blinkE34]

get legal counsel

[Callum]

get legal counsel

Unfortunately, its not worth an individuals time or money. I would support someone local (I'm in Canada) finding a lawyer for the benefit of the group. Between the two forums, and god only knows who else, he's likely swindeled thousands.

Anyone game?

Dave

[blinkE34]

pro-bono?

[de Witt]

pro-bono?

Possibly. A lawyers trade is actually his time. Pro-bono work is a networking and rainmaking tool if the attorney knows how to properly use it. As always, this is attorney-dependent.

It is also possible there could be a consolidation of claims, which would probably pique an attorney's interests more than a single claim with damages under $1000. Depending on the jurisdiction, claims under $10-15,000 fall within a small claims court. Granted, I dont know much about the facts here with Angrypancake.

[Antrieb]

He has 5 negative feedbacks on ebay out of 35

[edirtyfour]

If you're determined, contact all the people who were swindled (seen a few threads about it here on the forum) and see if you can get a collective damage total.

See if you can get some legal counsel about wording and methodology, then send a formal demand letter via certified mail. If you don't get a response, try to get a lawyer to represent all of you in a settlement. I'm not incredibly familiar with the process but you might be able to get your legal fees added to the judgment.

Your state's Attorney General's office might be able to help point you in the right direction as well.

[AndrewH]

Hey Dave what's up it's e34 530 from info. Oozing vagina's cell phone number is 845-926-2723

[Dr. Bimmer]

:lol (oozing vagina) lmfao!!!

[ThoreauHD]

Pro Bono work is done by Legal Aid in most cities in the US. But they will likely not want to pursue a college kid who has no money. The FBI on the other hand will start to care if the aggregate amount is over 1500 and there was interstate or mail fraud. They work with postmasters to track such things, don't ask me how. But 90 bucks and a college kid- no way. From all the posts I've seen, I think you can get a good 4K listed. Btw, how the heck are ya Dave?

[EngPhys09]

Ok i had a similar problem with Daniel Sach, i know a few others have had a similar problem.

I paid him 85$ US for 2 sunvisors and a parcelshelf

He broke the parcel shelf and was going to send me the money back for that along with the sunvisors, after a month i finally got them. But i didn't get the 41$ he owed me, money for parcel shelf. I've been emailing him constantly no luck...help?

[NikosX]

E34 530....get fucked douchewagon.

[5mall5nail5]

E34 530....get fucked douchewagon.

?

[Callum]

Coincidence?????????

Opened my hotmail account this morning to find an email with the following announcement.

Dear Dave MacIsaac,

nathaniel moore just sent you money with PayPal.

Funds have been returned in full !!!

Someone here implied that Nat was 'planinng' on returning all the money he 'borrowed. Whether its true or not, this squeaky wheel finally got some KY.

FWIW, If you're owed $$, I recommend filing the same complaint I did. Who Knows, it may have been the proverbial straw.

Thanks again to Antrieb, e34 530, Aaron and all others who provided info/ideas.

Dave M

[AndrewH]

?

For some reason he believes that no none should be pissed over this matter and everyone should just drop it.

[edirtyfour]

Hey good to hear you got resolution on the issue without having to take further measures!

[MacR]

Coincidence?????????

Opened my hotmail account this morning to find an email with the following announcement.

Dear Dave MacIsaac,

nathaniel moore just sent you money with PayPal.

Funds have been returned in full !!!

Someone here implied that Nat was 'planinng' on returning all the money he 'borrowed. Whether its true or not, this squeaky wheel finally got some KY.

FWIW, If you're owed $$, I recommend filing the same complaint I did. Who Knows, it may have been the proverbial straw.

Thanks again to e34 530, Aaron and all others who provided info/ideas.

Dave M


WOOOO we're winning!



E34 530....get fucked douchewagon.

Dude, chill.

[nixter]

E34 530....get fucked douchewagon.


While I can understand that you are trying to defend a friend who may have got in a little over his head, you can't blame those victimized by this very preventable crime for taking whatever action they can to recoup their loss. The negative press and public embarrassment should serve as a lesson to Mr Pancake not to repeat his actions in the future.

nix

[bdave04]

So was that phone number that was posted on the first page mr. nathaniel moore's? If so take it to the police and you can find his exact address.

[ThoreauHD]

Now if Pancake can pay back enough people to get the total amount under 1500, the Fed's won't be removing him from his autoshop class.

[Redfive]

I'm of the opinion this needs to stop. He paid everyone off and I'm pretty sure that this thread had little to do with it(since I've also been talking to him for a while). Everyone experiences some complications from web dealings at some point. Plus people also have stuff that comes up, life is a good example, that can cause complications (illness, school, etc). I'm a believer in second chances because we've all been given one. Burn me twice...
Case in point I presently have $1450 floating out there, which I'm confident either the money or the parts will find its way back to me at some point, since I've been diplomatic in dealing with the people who owe me money and never once mentioned anything about them on this website or any other.
I don't feel this forum is the correct place for personal drama. Especially stuff built up to be about a lot more than $145 and some missing door trim. Its not like he was posting and trying to sell more parts. And its not very much money, hell that's two fill ups for my car. Plus, there are more tactful ways of dealing with it (i.e. personal messages).
It sours my opinion of everyone on this forum when such stuff occurs because both sides of the story are never heard, whether its pancake or pumecar. I'm surprised the moderator allowed this to continue for such a long time.
Now can we go back to talking about our cars?

[eightynine535]

I'm of the opinion this needs to stop. He paid everyone off and I'm pretty sure that this thread had little to do with it(since I've also been talking to him for a while). Everyone experiences some complications from web dealings at some point. Plus people also have stuff that comes up, life is a good example, that can cause complications (illness, school, etc). I'm a believer in second chances because we've all been given one. Burn me twice...
Case in point I presently have $1450 floating out there, which I'm confident either the money or the parts will find its way back to me at some point, since I've been diplomatic in dealing with the people who owe me money and never once mentioned anything about them on this website or any other.
I don't feel this forum is the correct place for personal drama. Especially stuff built up to be about a lot more than $145 and some missing door trim. Its not like he was posting and trying to sell more parts. And its not very much money, hell that's two fill ups for my car. Plus, there are more tactful ways of dealing with it (i.e. personal messages).
It sours my opinion of everyone on this forum when such stuff occurs because both sides of the story are never heard, whether its pancake or pumecar. I'm surprised the moderator allowed this to continue for such a long time.
Now can we go back to talking about our cars?

while i respect your opinion i must disagree with some points.
-this is not "drama" it is dishonesty or worst, indifference.
-"life happens" does not stand up in the business world. when monies is exchanged it becomes business not pleasure.
-what is someone to do when PMs and emails are not answered?
-while your economic status might be greater than others, to downplay money spent is to devalue the person who spent it. money is money no matter the amount.

no one has the right to tell another their money is less valuable.

[Redfive]

while i respect your opinion i must disagree with some points.
-this is not "drama" it is dishonesty or worst, indifference.
-"life happens" does not stand up in the business world. when monies is exchanged it becomes business not pleasure.
-what is someone to do when PMs and emails are not answered?
-while your economic status might be greater than others, to downplay money spent is to devalue the person who spent it. money is money no matter the amount.

no one has the right to tell another their money is less valuable.

The individual who owes me $1300 disappeared from the face of the earth for 8 months and I was rather upset. Suddenly he pops up out of the blue and sends me the parts I bought, but at that point I no longer needed them and ultimately sent them back on the assumption that he would refund me. This all started back in 2003. I still talk to the guy regularly and his situation is still dire and he can afford to send me the money but says he will.
The point I was trying to make was that upset as you may be some people turn out to be decent and ultimately things will work out. Just give them time. It was supposed to be a positive message.
And yes, you're right, all money is very valuable. I could really use the $1300 right now. The only reason I have money is that I sold one of my cars. But everytime I stand at the pump and it rings up $55 for a full tank, I think about how I don't hesitates to buy fuel, but hesitate to buy everything else in life. I don't know where I'm going with this. I should stop. After I wrote my first post and waited about 10 minutes I decided I wanted to delete it, but you already read it.

[eightynine535]

see? a lot of these types of issues can simply be resolved with communication. anyone who buys stuff from me can say I keep in contact. I am from the retail industry so i know a thing or two about customer service.







and if i could, I would give you $1300 for that Zender kit!

[Redfive]

see? a lot of these types of issues can simply be resolved with communication. anyone who buys stuff from me can say I keep in contact. I am from the retail industry so i know a thing or two about customer service.







and if i could, I would give you $1300 for that Zender kit!

I'm an engineer involved in the design of buildings. We take customer service to a whole new level. People spending 10-40 million on a building or house tend to be demanding.

The zender kit is not for sale but I will accept ACS Silhouette S5 bodykits as a straight up trade.
If you want to bring your car up to CT, I can hook it up real nice. Check out what I did on my black car in the last month. I spent about $1500 in parts.

[barry8108]

i had to deal with one of the people your talking about and i dont care if its 5.00 or 500.00, if i send u money it doent mean u spend it and dont send me something because things are tough for u or u have life issues, just send the money back then, if u dont its stealing, ive sold a lot of parts over the years, and sometimes i was a week late because i couldnt get to the post office right a way, but i always told the person and sent the part, there is no excuse and these people should be dealt with, he may be a nice guy, but he is still a lying thief.

[Callum]

1) He paid everyone off and I'm pretty sure that this thread had little to do with it

I don't feel this forum is the correct place for personal drama.

2) I'm a believer in second chances because we've all been given one. Burn me twice...

Plus, there are more tactful ways of dealing with it (i.e. personal messages).

3) Case in point I presently have $1450 floating out there, which I'm confident either the money or the parts will find its way back to me at some point, since I've been diplomatic in dealing with the people who owe me money

4) It sours my opinion of everyone on this forum when such stuff occurs because both sides of the story are never heard,

5) Now can we go back to talking about our cars?

A few important points. See bolded text above for reference.

1) I wasn't "paid off" until I started this thread. That’s why the first word in it is “Coincidence”

2) I think most people are believers in second chances. This is why I sent Nat numerous polite e-mail and pms, none of which were responded to. I even tried calling him on many occasions, to no avail. Nat was provided the benefit of doubt for months prior to asking other board member for their opinions (my first posts regarding Nat's behaviour were very polite and non-accusatory). And for the record, he just earned another chance by sending my $$ back.

3) You can only be diplomatic if the other party actually acknowledges your existence. Otherwise, you’re a sucker.

4) Nat had every opportunity to tell his side of the story. This is why I sent so many messages and gave him so much time. I even spoke to other board members on the phone who eluded to ‘life issues’. Due to this, I backed off and provided him more time. All he had to do was reply to me ONCE. I don’t hate the dude for having issues, in fact, I felt bad for him.

5) Please resume, I’d love to add more than ‘drama’

*****If Nat has made right with the folks he wronged, he has just gained my respect back. I know he had a good reputation prior to this crap, and he earned it for doing something right (thats why I chose to do busines with him). If he’s out there reading this…………….thanks again for doing the right thing.

Dave