Informed opinion: difference between 6MT and Step is gargantuan

[335eye]

The new 335i coupe in our garage is steptronic. We bought a new Boxster recently as well - manual trans.

I've been able to compare, over a couple thousand miles, paddle shifting vs. manual shifts.

CONCLUSION: If you're on the fence, go with the 6MT. Manual shifting kicks a$$ - paddle shifting is, well, boring. There's no doubt. The difference with regards to fun and driver involvement is gargantuan!

[Beer Goggles]

Here come all the AT guys who think they are having fun, or say they are in traffic. :)

I love MT and will not get anything else unless it's a truck (we would have got our SUV in MT if available the wife wants MT) or maybe something like the Maserati coupe, but at least SMG.

[Blue Streek]

Yes, I have to agree with you about the manual transmission. Before I bought my 335i, I could only find automatics to test drive because you just can't find the manuals around here (SoCal). The salesperson said that most people who test drive the Steptronic are sold on it and think they like it better than "a manual", so they buy it. I know that manual and auto transmissions vary from car to car and between different makers, but I still wanted a manual, especially for this type of car. I am not going to buy what I feel is the ultimate driving machine and the bench mark sport sedan with an automatic, no matter how awesome the Steptronic 6 speed auto is. I did like my test drive of the 335i with Step, but this 6 speed manual is just so much more enjoyable. I realize that I probably can't shift as fast as that Steptronic, but I still get an (uncontrollable) big smile on my face when I'm shifting through those gears like butter and with all that power at my absolute control. I just hope that if anyone sees me smiling that they just think I'm listening to some funny talk radio bit or something, because I'm not on the phone and nobody's in the car telling jokes to me. I'm just having a blast rowing those gears. I'm not going to fall asleep driving either... like I used to feel like when I was driving my previous automatic while in traffic and on long freeway commutes. Sometimes when I get out of my car my hands are shaking and my knees are shaking because of the crazy adrenaline rush I just had while driving... I'm sure I'll get over that some day, but it's just too much fun sometimes when the time is right and the traffic permits me to downshift a couple of gears and bark the wheels and take off like a bat out of hell and whip around some corners like it was a roller coaster ride. I definitely don't mind having to row my own gears even in nasty traffic situations. I love to turn the Logic-7's volume down and put the windows down to listen to the exhaust and engine when I'm going slow or accelerating.

[Danny 335i]

Yes, I have to agree with you about the manual transmission. Before I bought my 335i, I could only find automatics to test drive because you just can't find the manuals around here (SoCal). The salesperson said that most people who test drive the Steptronic are sold on it and think they like it better than "a manual", so they buy it. I know that manual and auto transmissions vary from car to car and between different makers, but I still wanted a manual, especially for this type of car. I am not going to buy what I feel is the ultimate driving machine and the bench mark sport sedan with an automatic, no matter how awesome the Steptronic 6 speed auto is. I did like my test drive of the 335i with Step, but this 6 speed manual is just so much more enjoyable. I realize that I probably can't shift as fast as that Steptronic, but I still get an (uncontrollable) big smile on my face when I'm shifting through those gears like butter and with all that power at my absolute control. I just hope that if anyone sees me smiling that they just think I'm listening to some funny talk radio bit or something, because I'm not on the phone and nobody's in the car telling jokes to me. I'm just having a blast rowing those gears. I'm not going to fall asleep driving either... like I used to feel like when I was driving my previous automatic while in traffic and on long freeway commutes. Sometimes when I get out of my car my hands are shaking and my knees are shaking because of the crazy adrenaline rush I just had while driving... I'm sure I'll get over that some day, but it's just too much fun sometimes when the time is right and the traffic permits me to downshift a couple of gears and bark the wheels and take off like a bat out of hell and whip around some corners like it was a roller coaster ride. I definitely don't mind having to row my own gears even in nasty traffic situations. I love to turn the Logic-7's volume down and put the windows down to listen to the exhaust and engine when I'm going slow or accelerating.
DITTO!

[joeygott]

I purposely bought the MT but I'm very disappointed about the VERY NOTICEABLE 1 second delay in power right after letting go of the clutch. Dealer says i'ts normal, but it sucks and after 3 months, I just can't get used to it.
Pisses me off to be honest. BMW consumer affairs had nothing to say about it other than to check with dealer which I've done many times already.
Not sure if it's drive by wire throttle, ecu programming, CDV, or what is causing it.
LOVE the car though. That is my only major complaint.

[SocratesBMW]

The new 335i coupe in our garage is steptronic. We bought a new Boxster recently as well - manual trans.

I've been able to compare, over a couple thousand miles, paddle shifting vs. manual shifts.

CONCLUSION: If you're on the fence, go with the 6MT. Manual shifting kicks a$$ - paddle shifting is, well, boring. There's no doubt. The difference with regards to fun and driver involvement is gargantuan!

You don't have to use the paddles...

[forrestpilot]

The new 335i coupe in our garage is steptronic. We bought a new Boxster recently as well - manual trans.

I've been able to compare, over a couple thousand miles, paddle shifting vs. manual shifts.

CONCLUSION: If you're on the fence, go with the 6MT. Manual shifting kicks a$$ - paddle shifting is, well, boring. There's no doubt. The difference with regards to fun and driver involvement is gargantuan!

In my case, no brainer. Wife can not walk and chew gum at the same time much less use a MT. The paddle shifters were a novelty the first couple of months, but found them awkward to use on winding roads. For an AT, the DS or using the shifter is alot more fun vs the normal D. Have to admit, I would prefer the MT.

[335eye]

You don't have to use the paddles...

Yes, I know. I rarely use the paddles any more. The DS mode is fun, but I know now that I would opt for a 6MT if I had it to do over again.

I agonized over the transmission decision, and if not for the manual Boxster we bought, I'd be pissed. Hopefully, this thread helps someone that's not sure which way to go. :alright

If you like shifting, 6MT is the way to go.
If you like shifting, Step is a risky choice. You may regret your decision.

[SocratesBMW]

Yes, I know. I rarely use the paddles any more. The DS mode is fun, but I know now that I would opt for a 6MT if I had it to do over again.

I agonized over the transmission decision, and if not for the manual Boxster we bought, I'd be pissed. Hopefully, this thread helps someone that's not sure which way to go. :alright

If you like shifting, 6MT is the way to go.
If you like shifting, Step is a risky choice. You may regret your decision.
You can put it in M as well, DS is not the only other option. You can shift through M just like a stick, just no cluth and no leeting your foot off the gas

[brokenbimmer]

I've owned about 20 cars over the past 25 years, and most have been MT. I didn't get my first Auto until about 10 years ago. That being said, I love my 335i Auto. It's a great auto. Just as fast as the MT. Yes, the 335i in manual is fun, no doubt, but the 335i auto is a great, fun, fast daily driver. It all comes down to personal preferrence. Buy what you like.

[T Rex]

CONCLUSION: If you're on the fence, go with the 6MT

sage advice....

i test drove the AT twice and loved it.....but the MT has been even more of a joy......

you can't go wrong....we are talking very fine points......

[Danny 335i]

Theres no way i would have considered anything but a 6MT in my 335i coupe. I test drove an AT because there were no MT cars to test.But i must admit i had a lot of fun test driving the AT. My salesman let me take the car out alone for as long as i liked.I drove around for about 20 minutes on every kind of road,straight and smooth,bumpy,highway,twisties,etc.I was really impressed with the AT. But theres nothing like throwing gears,especially in a car like the 335i coupe IMO.

[Blue Streek]

Theres no way i would have considered anything but a 6MT in my 335i coupe. I test drove an AT because there were no MT cars to test.But i must admit i had a lot of fun test driving the AT. My salesman let me take the car out alone for as long as i liked.I drove around for about 20 minutes on every kind of road,straight and smooth,bumpy,highway,twisties,etc.I was really impressed with the AT. But theres nothing like throwing gears,especially in a car like the 335i coupe IMO.
Exactly how I felt... also couldn't find any MT's on any dealer's lot within about a 100 mile radius. Got lucky with my 6mt when they found it at the port on its way to another dealership.

[RMcoolX]

I've had two Mustang GT's. Both were MT and I never imagined getting an AT for any reason. A few gray hairs later, the MT is not a wise choice for me anymore due to a left knee injury that often bothers me. Also, I live in NW Houston, and anyone who knows Houston knows that HWY 290 is the worst in the city when it comes to rush hour traffic. The wife can drive an MT, but she doesn't like too.

Once I found out that they ran just as well as the MT's, my choice was that much easier. Add it all up, and all I can say is thank you BMW for making such an amazing steptronic.

[AvidSailor]

If you like shifting, 6MT is the way to go.
If you like shifting, Step is a risky choice. You may regret your decision.

Actually, it's much simpler than that - at least for people that know their own minds: if you want a MT, buy one; if you want an AT, buy one.

[grubster]

I purposely bought the MT but I'm very disappointed about the VERY NOTICEABLE 1 second delay in power right after letting go of the clutch. Dealer says i'ts normal, but it sucks and after 3 months, I just can't get used to it.
Pisses me off to be honest. BMW consumer affairs had nothing to say about it other than to check with dealer which I've done many times already.
Not sure if it's drive by wire throttle, ecu programming, CDV, or what is causing it.
LOVE the car though. That is my only major complaint.

Mine does it to, so I think it's normal. In my point of view, it has to be something with Drive by wire or something. Can't see it being CDV, i had one on my 99 M3 and it didn't do that. I think it's all the electronics.. or could it actually be turbo lag? To me though, it is not 1 FULL second, it's probably more like 1/2 sec or so. It's not a big deal to me, but if you can figure it out, let me know!

[galahad05]

I'm suspecting it's the throttle-by-wire system...possibly with a touch of turbo lag thrown in for good measure.


Wait, here's a thought. Does anyone know which other model has the double VANOS system? The 328 runs valvetronic+double VANOS, so can't be used for the comparison.

Another model--without turbos--but with the double VANOS, could be used as a baseline. If that car exhibits this hesitation, then that's probably the culprit in the 335. If not, then it might be more the turbos.

[Blue Streek]

I'm suspecting it's the throttle-by-wire system...possibly with a touch of turbo lag thrown in for good measure.


Wait, here's a thought. Does anyone know which other model has the double VANOS system? The 328 runs valvetronic+double VANOS, so can't be used for the comparison.

Another model--without turbos--but with the double VANOS, could be used as a baseline. If that car exhibits this hesitation, then that's probably the culprit in the 335. If not, then it might be more the turbos.
Back to the topic... the manual 335i is awesome!

Both the 328i and 335i have double vanos. Only the 328 has valvetronic and has part magnisium engine block (or something). The 335i is all aluminum, but blown by twin turbos with a front mounted intercooler and dual exhaust fromt the turbos back. I don't mind not having valvetronic in place of the twin turbo engine with manual transmission. I guess it's not "that" big of a difference, just a personal preference. ;) Yeah, right!!!

[galahad05]

I purposely bought the MT but I'm very disappointed about the VERY NOTICEABLE 1 second delay in power right after letting go of the clutch. Dealer says i'ts normal, but it sucks and after 3 months, I just can't get used to it.
Pisses me off to be honest. BMW consumer affairs had nothing to say about it other than to check with dealer which I've done many times already.
Not sure if it's drive by wire throttle, ecu programming, CDV, or what is causing it.
LOVE the car though. That is my only major complaint.

Try driving with traction control off, see if the hesitation is still there. This can make the car feel like the engine's suffering "turbo lag".

[Mad Dragon]

We'll see who changes their tune when the new dual-clutch transmission comes out. ;)

[dls56]

+1 6MT Old school, that's me.

[EastCoast335i]

I purposely bought the MT but I'm very disappointed about the VERY NOTICEABLE 1 second delay in power right after letting go of the clutch. Dealer says i'ts normal, but it sucks and after 3 months, I just can't get used to it.
Pisses me off to be honest. BMW consumer affairs had nothing to say about it other than to check with dealer which I've done many times already.
Not sure if it's drive by wire throttle, ecu programming, CDV, or what is causing it.
LOVE the car though. That is my only major complaint.

Clutch Delay Valve (CDV) just remove it yourself and that 1 sec delay is gone

[Mad Dragon]

I've driven many different manual BMWs, and there's no way in hell there's that long of a delay, or any delay at all...

[EastCoast335i]

I've driven many different manual BMWs, and there's no way in hell there's that long of a delay, or any delay at all...

Well you obviously havent driven a 335i with and without the CDV...

Seeing that you own a VW.. why are you here? Shouldnt you be posting your uninformed opinions on VWVortex

[Mad Dragon]

Seeing that you only have 2 posts, you really have no say whatsoever as to who can and cannot post here.

I spend more time in BMWs than most owners do.

[grubster]

Mad Dragon, if you remove CDV and that fixes it, let me know, I notice the same thing. I was driving a AT 535i '08 lately, and I noticed it slightly, not sure it was as pronounced though as with my car.

[EastCoast335i]

Seeing that you only have 2 posts, you really have no say whatsoever as to who can and cannot post here.

I spend more time in BMWs than most owners do.

2 posts or 626 posts... If you dont know for sure what the effects of the CDV are then like my "2nd" post suggested, keep it to yourself

[Mad Dragon]

Remove anything you want from your car. When it breaks, don't expect warranty to cover it.

[galahad05]

Clutch Delay Valve (CDV) just remove it yourself and that 1 sec delay is gone

I could believe that this was jg's problem...except that he mentioned that he could be in gear already, then drop the hammer--and still feel the "lag."

The cdv would only be a factor when switching gears, not when already in gear.

[EastCoast335i]

Remove anything you want from your car. When it breaks, don't expect warranty to cover it.

At least we agree on one thing...

Gotta pay to play...

[grubster]

I could believe that this was jg's problem...except that he mentioned that he could be in gear already, then drop the hammer--and still feel the "lag."

The cdv would only be a factor when switching gears, not when already in gear.

I think you are right, if I ever get my 335i back from the dealer, I will try this again.... Now I am having a blast driving a F'ing 328xiT.. Talk about waiting seconds. Step on the gas, the damn thing sometimes takes 2 seconds 2 downshift, so I find my self continuesly slapping the car into DS, then it won't upshift to 6th when I hit like 60, so I manually shift it, then slide it back over to D. No offense AT folks, it's nice having the auto, but as soon as you want to drive a aggressively, is just not the same. Sometimes I have no clue what gear I am in, all I know is I want to be in 3rd gear like NOW, so gimme my damn 335i 6MT back already!! Maybe if I had a 335i with AT I wouldn't car, as this car it doesn't really matter what gear you are in, the power is always there..

[Arustik1]

Mine does it to, so I think it's normal. In my point of view, it has to be something with Drive by wire or something. Can't see it being CDV, i had one on my 99 M3 and it didn't do that. I think it's all the electronics.. or could it actually be turbo lag? To me though, it is not 1 FULL second, it's probably more like 1/2 sec or so. It's not a big deal to me, but if you can figure it out, let me know!


Mine does the same, I dont think its turbo lag...my sisters z4 3.0i does the same thing.

[astro43]

I have the step in my 330. I understand as I have a hot mini with mt. It took me a year or so to get a feel for it and now swear by it. I wanted an mt but they didn't have one and I couldn't wait. That said it takes a while to learn the different style of driving, but once learned it is very gratifying and I do not regret my decision.

[wrh3]

Some others will argue the CDV is not noticeable and causes no additional clutch wear but to me and everyone that drove our car it was noticeable- much improved after the modified CDV from Zeckhausen was installed.

http://www.zeckhausen.com/CDV.htm - Some information about the CDV

http://www.billswebspace.com/BMWCDVMod.htm - My installation

[EDIT] BTW, the 335i is my wife's car, she just learned to drive a manual trans car 4 years ago and this will be her third (and in Atlanta traffic ;)) She missed her manual transmission after having automatics for over a year and this car was the solution.