3.0 vs 3.2

[BMW916]

3.0 intake/track pipe/exhaust/chip vs 3.2 same and m50 intake manifold, what car would win quatermile? has anyone ever raced these cars?

[Volf]

probably the better driver. equal drivers...the 3.2

[Iguana8334]

thats a little too close to be judgin but same driver and everything the 3.2 may be a few hundredths faster, maybe even a couple tenths faster casue of the m50

[BMW916]

probably the better driver. equal drivers...the 3.2


is this your opinion? you seen it happen?what are you basing this off of?

[GreenBeem93]

Huge open ended question....

I've pulled car lengths on s52 M's and Mcoupes from a 2nd gear roll. All depends on the health of the engine, driver, etc...

[BMW916]

thats a little too close to be judgin but same driver and everything the 3.2 may be a few hundredths faster, maybe even a couple tenths faster casue of the m50

couple tenths is alot faster..on a 95 every part you gain more power then a 3.2, so a m50 manifold will make that up and some?

[Iguana8334]

couple tenths is alot faster..on a 95 every part you gain more power then a 3.2, so a m50 manifold will make that up and some?

yes

[BMW916]

Huge open ended question....

I've pulled car lengths on s52 M's and Mcoupes from a 2nd gear roll. All depends on the health of the engine, driver, etc...

ic what your saying seems like its turning out like that... i just dont get how there is so many of us on this forum but no one has a clear answer. i know there has to be some friends with these cars that have ran them or dynoed them.

[GreenBeem93]

yes

prove it

[BMW916]

yes

what are you basing this of off?

[GreenBeem93]

ic what your saying seems like its turning out like that... i just dont get how there is so many of us on this forum but no one has a clear answer. i know there has to be some friends with these cars that have ran them or dynoed them.

I'm not trying to say that the s50 owns the s52, but in runs I have done with s52 equip M's, I have pulled. Again...too many factors to count. A huge one that I have found is the gearing. With taller gears, I was pulling pretty good from a 2nd gear roll right off the bat. From 3rd gear, I got pulled for the first few seconds until they had to shift, then I started to walk.

[Serious]

m50 equipped s52's are faster then s50's. hands down no argument no bs.

[BMW916]

m50 equipped s52's are faster then s50's. hands down no argument no bs.

enlighten me please..can you tell me how you know this?

[rick'sm3]

bigger motor=a greater possibility of extracting greater horsepower, but really don't want to argue, i used to own a 95 and i'm not biased as to which one is better, but in my opinion s52 ftw

[BMW916]

bigger motor=a greater possibility of extracting greater horsepower, but really don't want to argue, i used to own a 95 and i'm not biased as to which one is better, but in my opinion s52 ftw

if it was simple as that there would be no need to discuss.. biased, how not you own a s52 now. i dont see it as arguement, more as a way to learn about our cars.

[Serious]

enlighten me please..can you tell me how you know this?

displacement = more power on two motors that are nearly of identical architecture as the s50/s52 are.

s52 also has a better exhaust system.

s50 has a better intake system.

s52 displacement+ s52 exhaust system + s50 intake system = best power output.

[BMW916]

displacement = more power on two motors that are nearly of identical architecture as the s50/s52 are.

s52 also has a better exhaust system.

s50 has a better intake system.

s52 displacement+ s52 exhaust system + s50 intake system = best power output.

up top it said track pipe, exhaust on both so that throws that out and you forgot to throw in obd1 vs obd2 into that equation..

[BMW916]

95s do have a 3:15 diff while 96 up have 3:23 so that might be a -1 for 95s. this might also throw you into 4th gear in the quatermile, so might not help quatermile times.

[Serious]

diffs are irrelevant due to different tire sizes.

3.2 with same mods + m50 is faster then s50 just solely due to the additional displacement and torque.

s52 also has a lighter flywheel.
s52 also has better flowing headers supposedly.

[xman11]

ic what your saying seems like its turning out like that... i just dont get how there is so many of us on this forum but no one has a clear answer. i know there has to be some friends with these cars that have ran them or dynoed them.

a race will give a clear answer. switch drivers and race again to make sure which car is faster. if you really want to be sure, you'd have to race it during the day and again at night, etc, etc, it never ends.

that's the joy of racing - every race is different.

[GG///M3]

displacement = more power on two motors that are nearly of identical architecture as the s50/s52 are.

s52 also has a better exhaust system.

s50 has a better intake system.

s52 displacement+ s52 exhaust system + s50 intake system = best power output.

Well i have heard from afew tuners that the s50 head also flows alittle better then a s52. Also the s50 is alittle more rev happy, because it is a square motor. I never lost to stock for stock against a s52. I also have never raced against a s52 with a s50 intake manifold.

[BMW916]

Well i have heard from afew tuners that the s50 head also flows alittle better then a s52. Also the s50 is alittle more rev happy, because it is a square motor. I never lost to stock for stock against a s52. I also have never raced against a s52 with a s50 intake manifold.

can anyone chime in to confirm or deny this?

[JamesM3M5]

S50 and S52 heads are identical aside from one drilled port for a coolant temp sensor.

S50US engines can safely rev higher than S52 engines due to crankshaft design and construction. The S52s have problems with destructive vibrations breaking flywheel bolts, harmonic damper bolts, oil pump shafts, etc when continually revving above 7200RPM.

[skratch]

I have no problems walking my 2 friends 95 M3s.

I ran a 13.9 @99 while both my friends were in the mid 14s...same day and track.

like the red necks say theres no replacement for displacement

[Volf]

theres no replacement for displacement

I'll see your displacement and raise you:
http://www.rotamax.co.nz/images/products/Turbo.jpg

[skratch]

ya and that same setup will make more power on a S52 :)

[BMW916]

I have no problems walking my 2 friends 95 M3s.

I ran a 13.9 @99 while both my friends were in the mid 14s...same day and track.

like the red necks say theres no replacement for displacement

whats mods do you have?

[skratch]

uuc pullies,shark software,uuc fly wheel,aa gen 3,asc delete,cdv delete,plasma coils,3.5 in intake ect.

I have had the M50 manifold on and off my car...Its off the car now because I always drive the car around town where the extra low end helps.

After driving a 95 M3 I was so glad I got a 3.2 no offence but the s50 have no balls at all down low.

You should test drive a 3.2 and feel how peppy they are down low,its a huge difference.

[BMW916]

uuc pullies,shark software,uuc fly wheel,aa gen 3,asc delete,cdv delete,plasma coils,3.5 in intake ect.

I have had the M50 manifold on and off my car...Its off the car now because I always drive the car around town where the extra low end helps.

After driving a 95 M3 I was so glad I got a 3.2 no offence but the s50 have no balls at all down low.

You should test drive a 3.2 and feel how peppy they are down low,its a huge difference.

yea it would be coo to check out a 3.2 . i also hit a 13.903 at 99.742 60ft 2.12 that was with a slight miss fire because of spark plugs.13.7-13.8 forsure next time. im still not sold on the idea 3.2 is quicker. wish i knew someone in sacramento :help

[WTFZOO]

After driving a 95 M3 I was so glad I got a 3.2 no offence but the s50 have no balls at all down low.

You should test drive a 3.2 and feel how peppy they are down low,its a huge difference.

agreed

I have a 95 and have driven a 3.2 as well, such a difference in low end torque that the 3.2 really feels like a much faster car. But Ive raced my buddies 99 and we are neck and neck everytime even though his feels way quicker when I drive it.

[m3chaser]

I have no problems walking my 2 friends 95 M3s.

I ran a 13.9 @99 while both my friends were in the mid 14s...same day and track.

like the red necks say theres no replacement for displacement

You were the better driver to be sure. If you are doing a mid 14 in the 1/4 with an E36 M3 then you suck.

Good time for you though! Were you all stock or did you have some bolt ons?

EDIT: I just saw your mods list. All I had was intake, 3.5MAF, chip, catback and 3.91lsd and I ran a 13.61. This was on a clutch with 107k on it. If I had all your mods I would have done better to be sure. This was on street tires( General UHP Exclaims) 235/40/18's all around. You could have done a better time in my way of thinking! Come on man, represent!





I'll see your displacement and raise you:
http://www.rotamax.co.nz/images/products/Turbo.jpg

Ding Ding Ding!

[BMW916]

m3chaser

3:91s in 5 speed, what do you finish quatermile in 5th???

[skratch]

both engines make same top end,the S52 just has a way better torque curve.I will be slapping the m50 manifold back on when I supercharge it.

I am also running a 3.15 lsd now out of a 95,I blew my 3.38 when I had some bad wheel hop.


I'm sure my time could of been better but to tell you guys the truth.I did it with my winter tires on lol and it was still pretty cold out like 56

They were pretty old so I said F it and took it to the drags

I'm done with the 1/4,last time I ripped the top of the shocks mounts apart from a 3k launch.

[rick'sm3]

if it was simple as that there would be no need to discuss.. biased, how not you own a s52 now. i dont see it as arguement, more as a way to learn about our cars.
uhhhhh, you just said i was biased when i'm not, thats an argument..... cause i'm not

[Richie1404]

ok

i found this

www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiGDoTqAxFQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiGDoTqAxFQ)

if you can't click the link,

it's a M3 GT VS 3.2 EVO vid

GT has the 3.0 Engine
EVO has the 3.2 Engine

EVO Wins

[dcvee]

:lol:lol

Well, that pretty much settles this debate.:devillook

[GreenBeem93]

:lol:lol

Well, that pretty much settles this debate.:devillook

umm....not really

Euro motors are completely different. 321hp vs. 286hp.
Compared to 240hp vs. 240hp. US motors.

Post a vid of a s50 and s52 doing battle

[dcvee]

umm....not really

Euro motors are completely different. 321hp vs. 286hp.
Compared to 240hp vs. 240hp. US motors.

Post a vid of a s50 and s52 doing battle

Oh geez..with the double:lol:lol and the :devillook I didn't think I could make it look any more sarcastic....but I guess I should have.

:D

[GreenBeem93]

Oh geez..with the double:lol:lol and the :devillook I didn't think I could make it look any more sarcastic....but I guess I should have.

:D

my bad....my sarcastic radar must not be tuned in...F :help

[skratch]

I saw a s50 vs s52 dyno a while ago.The s52 made more torque and power up to about 5k where the s50 matched it in power but still lower in torque.

put it this way

take both cars 100% stock

both put down about 200whp with the s52 having more torque,now slap on the m50 manifold,making them both have the same intake system and the s52makes 220whp :redspot

[Mpowered95]

put a 3.23 on a s50 and theres your answer to the no low end torque

[Serious]

put a 3.23 on a s50 and theres your answer to the no low end torque

tire size, the larger circumference of the 245/40 compared to the 235's makes the 3.23 = 3.15.

if your running 235's w/ 3.23 youll gain some gearing though

[m3chaser]

m3chaser

3:91s in 5 speed, what do you finish quatermile in 5th???

No I finished in 4th at 100mph. My top speed in with the 3.91lsd was 135mph in 5th. I had 235/40/18's all around with a 7000rpm redline. My 4th gear ended at 109mph FYI.

[skratch]

put a 3.23 on a s50 and theres your answer to the no low end torque

I'm running a 3.15 with 235/40 18s and I can def tell the difference from a s50

[BMW916]

I saw a s50 vs s52 dyno a while ago.The s52 made more torque and power up to about 5k where the s50 matched it in power but still lower in torque.

put it this way

take both cars 100% stock

both put down about 200whp with the s52 having more torque,now slap on the m50 manifold,making them both have the same intake system and the s52makes 220whp :redspot

when you quatermile race its all 5grand up anyways. stock to stock is not the question or even with flows because s50 will win. but with the s50 manifold on a s52 and flows on both should be close. basically comes down to s50 obd1 vs s52 displacement.

[JamesM3M5]

ok

i found this

www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiGDoTqAxFQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiGDoTqAxFQ)

if you can't click the link,

it's a M3 GT VS 3.2 EVO vid

GT has the 3.0 Engine
EVO has the 3.2 Engine

EVO Wins
Nice post. Stupid racing that fast on public roads, but quite revealing to see what the already modded 3.0L GT does against the 3.2L. The GT has the same intake runners as the 3.2L, hot cams, even a different cam box, and 295BHP DIN versus the 3.2L 321BHP DIN. Very nice display indeed.

[BMW916]

Nice post. Stupid racing that fast on public roads, but quite revealing to see what the already modded 3.0L GT does against the 3.2L. The GT has the same intake runners as the 3.2L, hot cams, even a different cam box, and 295BHP DIN versus the 3.2L 321BHP DIN. Very nice display indeed.

i dunno if you guys watched the same movie as me be but didnt you guys notice the passenger in one car!!!

[Mpowered95]

tire size, the larger circumference of the 245/40 compared to the 235's makes the 3.23 = 3.15.

if your running 235's w/ 3.23 youll gain some gearing though

ya im running 235s, i can feel a huge diffence in my car and my buddies old 95 M with 3.15 gears, intake, exhaust, chip, esp in low end torque.

[hmsM3]

well i have a 3.23 diff and i got a 95M was auto converted to stick. when my car was stock with just the conversion i raced 2 97 M's and beat both by a car length or so. yeah yeah depends on driver and condition of motor blah blah but i just wanted to mention my setup since it wasnt mentioned

[m3chaser]

I don't believe there was any difference in drag times according to C&D when the 95 came out and the 96 came out. The S52 has alittle more torque and then S50 can breathe better up top. With both drivers being equal the vehicles will be equal in the 1/4. Where the S52 may pull alittle more down low then S50 will make it up in the higher RPM's. This race is soooooo close that it is pointless to talk about it and it always comes down to the driver when both cars are stock.

I would love to see the S52 with just the S50 manifold against the S50 with the 3.23. No software for either or anything else. That would be a good race.

[GreenBeem93]

I don't believe there was any difference in drag times according to C&D when the 95 came out and the 96 came out. The S52 has alittle more torque and then S50 can breathe better up top. With both drivers being equal the vehicles will be equal in the 1/4. Where the S52 may pull alittle more down low then S50 will make it up in the higher RPM's. This race is soooooo close that it is pointless to talk about it and it always comes down to the driver when both cars are stock.

I would love to see the S52 with just the S50 manifold against the S50 with the 3.23. No software for either or anything else. That would be a good race.

Great post :buttrock

[BMW916]

3.0 foolife:buttrock

[BMW916]

s52s' motor has to be heavier and air pump stuff has to add weight not sure how much .. but yea chalk another -1 for s52

[m3chaser]

s52s' motor has to be heavier and air pump stuff has to add weight not sure how much .. but yea chalk another -1 for s52

No offense, but you need to get a grip my friend. You have weak valve retainers and a plastic water pump. You have a weak differential because the bolts often come loose inside of the diff itself. You have less torque.

I am not saying this to come down on the 95 M3, but the contrary. I looooved my 95 M3 even for all of it's faults. I love my 2000 S52 M Coupe even for all of it's faults. You should remember that the S52 has just as many strengths as the S50 and the whole "OBD1 is more mod friendly" is a bunch of croc now with the technology of tuning today.

I personally like the 95 better perhaps because I am used to it more, but that doesn't mean -1 for the S52 M3. It is just personal preference in all reality. For every pro you can find about the S50, I can find one for the S52. For every con you can find in the S52 I can find one in the S50.

Again, what is the point here? Drive what you want, but this " another -1" crap is silly.

[Mpowered95]

I don't believe there was any difference in drag times according to C&D when the 95 came out and the 96 came out. The S52 has alittle more torque and then S50 can breathe better up top. With both drivers being equal the vehicles will be equal in the 1/4. Where the S52 may pull alittle more down low then S50 will make it up in the higher RPM's. This race is soooooo close that it is pointless to talk about it and it always comes down to the driver when both cars are stock.

I would love to see the S52 with just the S50 manifold against the S50 with the 3.23. No software for either or anything else. That would be a good race.

enough said

[BMW916]

No offense, but you need to get a grip my friend. You have weak valve retainers and a plastic water pump. You have a weak differential because the bolts often come loose inside of the diff itself. You have less torque.

I am not saying this to come down on the 95 M3, but the contrary. I looooved my 95 M3 even for all of it's faults. I love my 2000 S52 M Coupe even for all of it's faults. You should remember that the S52 has just as many strengths as the S50 and the whole "OBD1 is more mod friendly" is a bunch of croc now with the technology of tuning today.

I personally like the 95 better perhaps because I am used to it more, but that doesn't mean -1 for the S52 M3. It is just personal preference in all reality. For every pro you can find about the S50, I can find one for the S52. For every con you can find in the S52 I can find one in the S50.

Again, what is the point here? Drive what you want, but this " another -1" crap is silly.

haha buddy relax relax its all in fun. we all family here:)
but i do think its a valid point. i would like to know how much more it weights?

[m3chaser]

haha buddy relax relax its all in fun. we all family here:)
but i do think its a valid point. i would like to know how much it weights more.

Fair enough bro. I apologize if I came across too harsh. I don't know if there is much more weight with the OBDII M3's or not. I am sure someone will chime in soon enough.

[GreenBeem93]

I dunno which weighs more, but you have to factor in the cast iron headers on the s50 vs. the s52 header setup. There is no air pump on the s50, but the cast headers weigh a ton.

[Black96m3]

lets be honest here... I know all of your S50 guys are annoyed over the stupid Gold paint flaking off your Valve covers.


-1 for the S50 :*(

[m3chaser]

lets be honest here... I know all of your S50 guys are annoyed over the stupid Gold paint flaking off your Valve covers.


-1 for the S50 :*(

Oh man. I had that on my 95 M3. It is a simple fix. Just take the valve cover off and get it painted or get a 96+ valve cover that is already black.

[Black96m3]

Oh man. I had that on my 95 M3. It is a simple fix. Just take the valve cover off and get it painted or get a 96+ valve cover that is already black.

yeah I know. Its annoying nonetheless

[Mpowered95]

who cares, the real s52's are in the e46:booty

[BMW916]

who cares, the real s52's are in the e46:booty

i think we do because we dont have e46es:D

[whopwood]

mispost

[Mpowered95]

i think we do because we dont have e46es:D

when i drove an e46 M, i felt like i was driving a 3500lb caddy. i was not impressed at all.... i think ill stick with my E36

[GG///M3]

s52s' motor has to be heavier and air pump stuff has to add weight not sure how much .. but yea chalk another -1 for s52

same weight. The s52 has lighter headers then the s50 cast iron manifolds. Btw i have read that the s50 exhaust manifolds flow better. i think it was in zionsville's obd1 conversion cd.

[skratch]

The whole obd2 exh system flows better on a 96+ car.Its been proven over and over.That is the reason there are no gains with headers,track pipes ect..

it also weighs less too

-3 for a s50 :devillook

[malter]

BMW would not make a newer motor for nothing.

Before flaming starts, I had both, '95 OBD1 and current '96 M3. I prefer '95 because they rev better and don't have to deal with OBD2 crap, but you cannot deny that newer motor is better overall, without even getting into potential of having more volume.

S52:

-more usable torque
-more displacement
-teflon coated cylinder walls
-better flowing headers
-more free flowing exhaust (mid pipe especially)
-revised retainers
-more finely balanced camshafts
-valve lifters, springs and spring seats with reduced mass

on euro engines, differences were even bigger

-lighter rods
-graphite conrods
-larger intake valves
-increased compression

read more here:

http://www.bmwmregistry.com/model_faq.php?id=15

Your cold air intake and xyz exhaust will not overcome these differences.

My old '95 put down 227whp on mustang dyno. I did few highway pulls with '99 stock M3 and results were always the same. He gets a quick jump because of shorter gearing and I start closing in the gap as revs go past 5k. From 60-120mph I am 1 car length ahead or so. That is not much and bear in mind he is stock with no M50 manifold.

[BMW916]

The whole obd2 exh system flows better on a 96+ car.Its been proven over and over.That is the reason there are no gains with headers,track pipes ect..

it also weighs less too

-3 for a s50 :devillook

you can thank OBD2 for the no gains. 95s we gain more power and the weight savings is prolly worth it on its own. anyone with a s52 in sacramento hit me up. we can solve all this talk.

[malter]

you can thank OBD2 for the no gains. 95s we gain more power and the weight savings is prolly worth it on its own. anyone with a s52 in sacramento hit me up. we can solve all this talk.

why are you so thick?

you gain more power, because you have more restricted system in the first place. 96+ flows better, hence it is less affected by mods. it is already made to flow well so gains are not as significant.

[eXpLiCiT]

I'll hit you up next time im up there. What part of Sac? I got some friends in citrus heights.

[BMW916]

I'll hit you up next time im up there. What part of Sac? I got some friends in citrus heights.

natomas close to arco arena. what mods do you have?cant wait..my friends and i are going to sacramento raceway aug 29. you can come then but if not im down when ever.

[BMW916]

why are you so thick?

you gain more power, because you have more restricted system in the first place. 96+ flows better, hence it is less affected by mods. it is already made to flow well so gains are not as significant.

before i got my m3 i had a prelude. so i was into the whole import scene. i see the whole s50 obd1 vs s52 obd2 just like the acura gsrs. those cars where exactly the same 94-02. but in 96 they came out with obd2 . the same headers that made you power in the 94s started to make nothing on the 96 and up models. why? OBD2 so i think there is more to this then you guys would like to believe. you guys keep talking about better exhaust on s52s it dont matter because you can easily change those inferior parts on the s50. the power curve on the s52 starts to die at 5grand while on a s52 you in its sweet spot. when you race you always above 5grand. the only thing that can help this is the intake manifold but no one has came with proof. i know cams change that too but we are not talking about that.

[Serious]

before i got my m3 i had a prelude. so i was into the whole import scene. i see the whole s50 obd1 vs s52 obd2 just like the acura gsrs. those cars where exactly the same 94-02. but in 96 they came out with obd2 . the same headers that made you power in the 94s started to make nothing on the 96 and up models. why? OBD2 so i think there is more to this then you guys would like to believe. you guys keep talking about better exhaust on s52s it dont matter because you can easily change those inferior parts on the s50. the power curve on the s52 starts to die at 5grand while on a s52 you in its sweet spot. when you race you always above 5grand. the only thing that can help this is the intake manifold but no one has came with proof. i know cams change that too but we are not talking about that.

if you want proof of the m50, look up at the "post your dyno" sheet sticky. there is more then enough there.

i really dont see what there is to argue about here.

s50 has better intake system.
s52 has more displacement and a better exhaust system.

s52+ s50 intake system = best power.

obd1 and obd2 make absolutely 0 difference powerwise on a stock car.

how is this a hard concept??????

edit: yes you could put the s52 exhaust system on the s50 but then your still down .2L of displacement which means less torque which means less power.

[malter]

im wasting time

[BMW916]

eXpLiCiT has offered to enlighten me. so once everything goes down ill be the first to post on here win or lose. we have equal parts and he has the additional s50 intake manifold which makes it perfect. no offense to anyone but i just dont buy what you guys are saying. i have my opinion ,you have yours.

[hmsM3]

eXpLiCiT has offered to enlighten me. so once everything goes down ill be the first to post on here win or lose. we have equal parts and he has the additional s50 intake manifold which makes it perfect. no offense to anyone but i just dont buy what you guys are saying. i have my opinion ,you have yours.
yeah but do you have the 3.23 gears?

[GreenBeem93]

if you want proof of the m50, look up at the "post your dyno" sheet sticky. there is more then enough there.

i really dont see what there is to argue about here.

s50 has better intake system.
s52 has more displacement and a better exhaust system.

s52+ s50 intake system = best power.

obd1 and obd2 make absolutely 0 difference powerwise on a stock car.

how is this a hard concept??????

edit: yes you could put the s52 exhaust system on the s50 but then your still down .2L of displacement which means less torque which means less power.

Orly?

There really is nothing to argue about here. If one was THAT much better than the other, there would be tons of threads about it all over this forum. The fact is, stock for stock, it is a drivers race. :stickoutt

[mtmpow3r]

I have a 95 M3 with Conforti Chip, Dinan CAI, 540 HFM and my girlfriend has a 97 M3 stock. I've noticed hers is noticably quicker off the line, but over 4500 rpm my M3 starts to run her down. But the whole issue of the 95 having no balls down low is totally true. Until I change my gearing to compensate, I cannot keep up off the line. We plan on taking it out side by side and finding out, I'll keep you all up to date.

[skratch]

I'v driven both time and time again,The S50 is torque less down low.The obd2 has nothing to do about it.Why do you think 95 cars gain considerable amount of power with just switching to the s52 exh system?

They make same top end but the power UNDER the curve is way better on a s52

[skratch]

I have a 95 M3 with Conforti Chip, Dinan CAI, 540 HFM and my girlfriend has a 97 M3 stock. I've noticed hers is noticably quicker off the line, but over 4500 rpm my M3 starts to run her down. But the whole issue of the 95 having no balls down low is totally true. Until I change my gearing to compensate, I cannot keep up off the line. We plan on taking it out side by side and finding out, I'll keep you all up to date.

Thank you someone that has driven both.She should chip,intake,s50 it to make it a little more even when you race

[BMW916]

yeah but do you have the 3.23 gears?

nope but itll be aight, not much different.

[Mpowered95]

if you want proof of the m50, look up at the "post your dyno" sheet sticky. there is more then enough there.

i really dont see what there is to argue about here.

s50 has better intake system.
s52 has more displacement and a better exhaust system.

s52+ s50 intake system = best power.

obd1 and obd2 make absolutely 0 difference powerwise on a stock car.

how is this a hard concept??????

edit: yes you could put the s52 exhaust system on the s50 but then your still down .2L of displacement which means less torque which means less power.

o no..... .2L.... what will i ever do???

[Mpowered95]

nope but itll be aight, not much different.

not much different? maybe if your running 19s with a sloppy clutch :lol

[Serious]

Orly?

There really is nothing to argue about here. If one was THAT much better than the other, there would be tons of threads about it all over this forum. The fact is, stock for stock, it is a drivers race. :stickoutt

are we talking about stock for stock? because the OP said s50 with some bolton's vs. s52 with m50 + same bolton's.

And there were tons of thread about it, back in 01-02 when the board opened, do a search. this is probably one of the most discussed issues ever on this board.

[Serious]

o no..... .2L.... what will i ever do???

be slower then a similarily modded 3.2L.

[Mpowered95]

be slower then a similarily modded 3.2L.

well good thing i know how to drive than huh:buttrock

[skratch]

mpower you have the obd2 mid section in your mod list,How much of a diff did it make?

you should slap on the obd2 headers to complete the system

[GG///M3]

I wouldnt mind running a s52 for fun if they were local.

[Volf]

The S50 is torque less down low.The obd2 has nothing to do about it.Why do you think 95 cars gain considerable amount of power with just switching to the s52 exh system?

Exactly.

[hmsM3]

well i have a 3.23 diff and i got a 95M was auto converted to stick. when my car was stock with just the conversion i raced 2 97 M's and beat both by a car length or so. yeah yeah depends on driver and condition of motor blah blah but i just wanted to mention my setup since it wasnt mentioned
did u guys miss this post? my 95 came from the factory with 3.23 gears cause it was auto vs the 5sp 3.15. i did a couple runs with both cars and the results were the same everytime. it was runs till the end of 3rd gear. from a 15 mph roll it was more like 2 car lengths till the middle of 4th

*EDIT* actually i had a spec stage 3 clutch and jb racing flywheel and b&m ssk. but the rest was stock

[Matutino]

did u guys miss this post? my 95 came from the factory with 3.23 gears cause it was auto vs the 5sp 3.15. i did a couple runs with both cars and the results were the same everytime. it was runs till the end of 3rd gear. from a 15 mph roll it was more like 2 car lengths till the middle of 4th

*EDIT* actually i had a spec stage 3 clutch and jb racing flywheel and b&m ssk. but the rest was stock

Automatic...? back in 95?

[Volf]

Automatic...? back in 95?


Yes :)

[Matutino]

Wow, for some reason I though M3's where all 5speed back in 95

[Serious]

pretty sure auto 95 m3's came with 3.91's not 3.23's.

97+ auto sedan's came with 3.38

[Mpowered95]

pretty sure auto 95 m3's came with 3.91's not 3.23's.

97+ auto sedan's came with 3.38

haha, no auto m3 came with 3.91 or else there wouldnt be such a big difference in the 1/4 mile times.

[Mpowered95]

mpower you have the obd2 mid section in your mod list,How much of a diff did it make?

you should slap on the obd2 headers to complete the system

headers arent worth my time, only difference is weight. exhaust sounds and feels great, best mod for the money ive done yet.

[Volf]

pretty sure auto 95 m3's came with 3.91's not 3.23's.

97+ auto sedan's came with 3.38


Um.... no they came with 3.23's


What kind of gearbox does the 3.0-liter E36 M3 have?
All 3.0-liter E36 M3s regardless of engine type have a ZF Type C five-speed manual gearbox with the following ratios: 4.20 (1), 2.49 (2), 1.66 (3), 1.24 (4), 1.00 (5). This is mated to a limited slip differential (25%) with a 3.15:1 final drive.

In addition, the U.S.-spec 1995 M3 was available with a ZF 5HP18 five-speed automatic transmission (http://www.bmwmregistry.com/faq/E36_M3_Auto_Shifter.jpg) as an option starting with 12/94 production. This unit offers three driver-adjustable modes (normal, manual and winter) and uses the following ratios: 3.67 (1), 2.00 (2), 1.41 (3), 1.00 (4), .74 (5). It comes mated to a 3.23:1 final drive with limited slip differential.


^ Thats a direct copy and paste from the BMW M registry
(http://www.bmwmregistry.com/model_faq.php?id=14#3)

[Serious]

Um.... no they came with 3.23's

ya thats correct. 3.23 in 95 m3 auto. ;)

[BMW916]

i found some stuff..
The 1996+ model is known for being more difficult to tune for performance, due to slightly smaller intake manifold runners and more complicated electronics (OBDII. enjoy

[Mpowered95]

bottom line is that the only reason any1 is arguing that the s52 is faster is bc you mentioned it having the obd1 intake manifold, or else, hands down... every1 knows s50 is faster

[HBpredhunter]

this is a stupid thread. its been covered, and we all know bigger engine is better.
sure the 3.0 can make great power, but the 3.2 will have the edge.

simple as that.

[Mpowered95]

any1 with their BIGGER engine in NYC area ill be more than happy to do some digs or rolls....:lol

[skratch]

mpowered just go drive a stinking s52 so we can close this stupid thread.

[Serious]

any1 with their BIGGER engine in NYC area ill be more than happy to do some digs or rolls....:lol
:rolleyes

[Bimmer325]

mpowered just go drive a stinking s52 so we can close this stupid thread.

Ps...my mom's 3.0 in her 335i beats my 3.2 .... oh noes.

[GG///M3]

any1 with their BIGGER engine in NYC area ill be more than happy to do some digs or rolls....:lol

+1

[BMW916]

haha i find it funny that all the 95s are calling out s52s. love it,same here anyone in sacramento area lets do this.

[jworms]

haha i find it funny that all the 95s are calling out s52s. love it,same here anyone in sacramento area lets do this.

anyone in the socal area with a '95 i'm down to run. i have yet to lose to an s50 e36 M3 and i surely have never seen one that puts down similar power numbers as an equally modded s52. stock for stock the cars are very equal with their unique impediments (s52 intake manifold/s50 exhaust), but when modded the s52 is quicker.

EDIT: here's a video of me vs a modded '95 e36 M3. i briefly spoke with the owner (while driving) and, if i remember right, he said he had exhaust and intake. as you might be able to see, his car is pretty stripped (race seats and if i remember right the rear seat was stripped) while i had full interior on mine. also he had no passengers, while i had two passengers probably equaling around 320lbs extra in my car. we tried this a couple times with the same results.
link to video (http://raptor.nauticaltech.com/~jworms/m3/videos/bimmerfest-2007/MVI_1855.avi)
(right click, save-as)

[BMW916]

anyone in the socal area with a '95 i'm down to run. i have yet to lose to an s50 e36 M3 and i surely have never seen one that puts down similar power numbers as an equally modded s52. stock for stock the cars are very equal with their unique impediments (s52 intake manifold/s50 exhaust), but when modded the s52 is quicker.

EDIT: here's a video of me vs a modded '95 e36 M3. i briefly spoke with the owner (while driving) and, if i remember right, he said he had exhaust and intake. as you might be able to see, his car is pretty stripped (race seats and if i remember right the rear seat was stripped) while i had full interior on mine. also he had no passengers, while i had two passengers probably equaling around 320lbs extra in my car. we tried this a couple times with the same results.
link to video (http://raptor.nauticaltech.com/~jworms/m3/videos/bimmerfest-2007/MVI_1855.avi)
(right click, save-as)

do you have any weight reduction? i might be in long beach in a few weeks. if so ill hit you up.

[jworms]

do you have any weight reduction? i might be in long beach in a few weeks. if so ill hit you up.

right now my car is sitting without a back seat, race seats in the front, and no spare. i have all my stock stuff that i can throw in as long as you do too.

[triggrhaapi]

In my personal opinion, the S50 in good health will be faster than an S52 mod for mod. I had a friend with a 92 325i that was S50 swapped and he walked all over S52 M3s with more mods. He had intake, chip, exhaust. He was also running the stock 325i open diff for the longest time. There's a vid somewhere on my computer of him raping 4 other M3s at El Mirage a few years ago.

[malter]

In my personal opinion, the S50 in good health will be faster than an S52 mod for mod. I had a friend with a 92 325i that was S50 swapped and he walked all over S52 M3s with more mods. He had intake, chip, exhaust. He was also running the stock 325i open diff for the longest time. There's a vid somewhere on my computer of him raping 4 other M3s at El Mirage a few years ago.


you personal opinion is irrelevant. facts are what matters, not opinions.

[eXpLiCiT]

I will win! :D

[skratch]

Ps...my mom's 3.0 in her 335i beats my 3.2 .... oh noes.

ohhh SHIIIT wow,what the hell does a twin turbo have to do with a s52

[m3chaser]

haha, no auto m3 came with 3.91 or else there wouldnt be such a big difference in the 1/4 mile times.

3.91lsd was an option for the 97-98 auto M3's. I had a 95 M3 5spd and my diff blew so I swapped out a 3.91lsd from a 97 auto M3. Needless to say I raped most E36 M3's short of FI.


anyone in the socal area with a '95 i'm down to run. i have yet to lose to an s50 e36 M3 and i surely have never seen one that puts down similar power numbers as an equally modded s52. stock for stock the cars are very equal with their unique impediments (s52 intake manifold/s50 exhaust), but when modded the s52 is quicker.

EDIT: here's a video of me vs a modded '95 e36 M3. i briefly spoke with the owner (while driving) and, if i remember right, he said he had exhaust and intake. as you might be able to see, his car is pretty stripped (race seats and if i remember right the rear seat was stripped) while i had full interior on mine. also he had no passengers, while i had two passengers probably equaling around 320lbs extra in my car. we tried this a couple times with the same results.
link to video (http://raptor.nauticaltech.com/~jworms/m3/videos/bimmerfest-2007/MVI_1855.avi)
(right click, save-as)

Jworms, please don't rape him toooooo bad. Jworms car gooooooooes. So any of you fella's thinking that you are gonna hand it to him have something else coming unless you have a freak. Jworms knows how to drive so be ready for a butt kicking.

[triggrhaapi]

you personal opinion is irrelevant. facts are what matters, not opinions.

Thanks for being a douchebag. Anyhow, the S50 is a more freely revving engine than the S52, and there is hardly 150cc between the two of them. They both use the same head casting, and in the opinion of Jim Conforti, they both suffer from the same anemia after 7000RPM. I've driven both motors and I prefer the S50 because of the power delivery and revvier nature but to be honest they are almost the same. To that end, it's all about opinion. There is no conclusive evidence that one is better than the other. The S52 went out of production 8 years ago. If there were a clear winner here we would have known about it by now.


But thanks for playing.

[Serious]

you s50 guys are funny, notice that only the people who actually own 95 m3's are the only ones agreeing with each other?

show me a dyno of an n/a s50 hitting 260+whp/240+rwtq and then i will believe s50> s52.

s50 Eurosport 3.5 hfm & Carbon intake, ITG Filter, Conforti SW, Active Auto. Trackpipe, UUC Exhaust
233/220
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=5477293&postcount=3

s52 (same mods) M50 Intake Manifold, Conforti 3.5" CAI, AA Software, 3.5" HFM (unplugged), Fan Delete, Strömung Exhaust, UUC Stg2 Ltw Flywheel w/ Stg1 Clutch, AA Track Pipe
242/232
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10252330&postcount=234

edit: s50 (pretty much everything) Eurosport/Conforti/Schrick package, shorty SuperSprint headers, stock cats, Stromung exhaust, underdrive pulleys, fan delete, 93 octane update 4/07: Samco intake elbow, AA track pipe replaces cats
246/227
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=9298370&postcount=200

/end thread.

[GG///M3]

[QUOTE=Serious;10254541]you s50 guys are funny, notice that only the people who actually own 95 m3's are the only ones agreeing with each other?

show me a dyno of an n/a s50 hitting 260+whp/240+rwtq and then i will believe s50> s52.

Ummm I hit 245whp on my old m3 with just a euro hfm, but that was maybe a wedsday motor. Btw european car's black m3 did when it was n/a with cams. I believe the #'s were 264whp and 236wtq. ;) I dont think the s52 is slow, but i dont think because its going to beat a s50 just because of the .2 larger dis on the motor.

[BMW916]

Jworms, please don't rape him toooooo bad. Jworms car gooooooooes. So any of you fella's thinking that you are gonna hand it to him have something else coming unless you have a freak. Jworms knows how to drive so be ready for a butt kicking.[/QUOTE]

yea is numbers are a lil scary but it would be fun to go for the heavyweight title. i think i see a randy couture vs tim silvia action about to happen..haha

[BMW916]

[QUOTE=Serious;10254541]you s50 guys are funny, notice that only the people who actually own 95 m3's are the only ones agreeing with each other?

of course we brothers from another mother.:buttrock we stick together..:D

[GG///M3]

[QUOTE=Serious;10254541]you s50 guys are funny, notice that only the people who actually own 95 m3's are the only ones agreeing with each other?

of course we brothers from another mother.:buttrock we stick together..:D

+1 :lol

[Bimmer325]

ohhh SHIIIT wow,what the hell does a twin turbo have to do with a s52

the title is 3.0 vs. 3.2
it was sarcasm, dont get your panties in a bunch like 99% of everyone else in this thread

[porschefan1013]

Quit trying to justify your shittay purchase. 95's suck for numerous reasons, with the 3.0 liter S50 being at the top of the list. If it was so great, why did it only account for one out of five years of production on U.S. models? Out with the old, in with the new.

Quit trying to justify the fact that you didn't have the money to purchase a newer car. I doubt very many people set out to buy a 95 on purpose. You bought it because it was all you could afford and if you could have gotten a newer one, you would have. You can call me a snob if you want to. But you guys just sound completely and stupidly delusional.

[Mpowered95]

Jworms, please don't rape him toooooo bad. Jworms car gooooooooes. So any of you fella's thinking that you are gonna hand it to him have something else coming unless you have a freak. Jworms knows how to drive so be ready for a butt kicking.

jworms car also has about 6 grand dumped into it... we are talking about near stock cars here, not every bolt on available.

[Mpowered95]

Quit trying to justify your shittay purchase. 95's suck for numerous reasons, with the 3.0 liter S50 being at the top of the list. If it was so great, why did it only account for one out of five years of production on U.S. models? Out with the old, in with the new.

Quit trying to justify the fact that you didn't have the money to purchase a newer car. I doubt very many people set out to buy a 95 on purpose. You bought it because it was all you could afford and if you could have gotten a newer one, you would have. You can call me a snob if you want to. But you guys just sound completely and stupidly delusional.

you'd be 1st on my list to spank :stickoutt

[Mpowered95]

o ya and i did want a 95 b/c its NO EMISSIONSSSS:redspot

[triggrhaapi]

Quit trying to justify your shittay purchase. 95's suck for numerous reasons, with the 3.0 liter S50 being at the top of the list. If it was so great, why did it only account for one out of five years of production on U.S. models? Out with the old, in with the new.

Quit trying to justify the fact that you didn't have the money to purchase a newer car. I doubt very many people set out to buy a 95 on purpose. You bought it because it was all you could afford and if you could have gotten a newer one, you would have. You can call me a snob if you want to. But you guys just sound completely and stupidly delusional.

Well actually the reason they only produced it one year was because the US S50 was in development until just before the 95 model year came out. Almost immediately after production began, the US market upgraded it's SMOG laws to require an OBDII standard which was more restrictive, and required more displacement to produce the same amount of power. That's the only reason for the S52's development.

[skratch]

I'm down for some runs before I throw the m50 mani back on.I can keep up with stage 2 s4s and know what s50s can do.

Ill even put money on it.

from 2.5k-4k were making gobs more torque(+225 at the wheels)and have the same top end,once you mod an s52 you have a better power band threw the whole rev range.

This was the big debate back in the day and its been proven time and time again.

[triggrhaapi]

Anybody know of any lightly modded S52 E30s that want to run against my S50 E30, let me know. I have intake, headers, chip and straightpipes.

[AvusBlua M3]

I've raced my buddy in his 3.2 and i have a 3.0 he won by a little bit.. ive driven both too and you can tell that the 3.2 has a little more pull..

[skratch]

Put it this way,when I was in the market for an M3(7 years ago)I was test driving them and after I test dorve a stock 95 and one with a chip and exh I didn't bother testing any more out after that.

The 96+ cars felt way more peppy and I made my choice real quick on wich was a better car.

Like someone else posted the only reason you got a 95 was because of the price,You can mod both now and its a no brainer to get the S52

[jworms]

jworms car also has about 6 grand dumped into it... we are talking about near stock cars here, not every bolt on available.
:rofl
i hardly have that much invested in my car. probably closer to half that. and why aren't we talking about cars with basic bolt-ons? i mean i would hardly consider my car to be fully modded for bolt-ons. i've still got a lot left to do: headers, cams, gearing (diff), pulleys, traction control delete, samco intake elbow, decent software (AA's sucks for my car, re: unplugged MAF), and i'm sure there's more that i just can't think of right now. that's almost the same amount of mods left to do compared to what i already have done. after all that is done you can probably say i'll have around $6k in my car.


Anybody know of any lightly modded S52 E30s that want to run against my S50 E30, let me know. I have intake, headers, chip and straightpipes.
i'll run you, but only if that's ok with Mpowered95. i'll even let you choose if you want me to weight reduce my car, or not, to offset your weight advantage over me.

[triggrhaapi]

:rofl
i hardly have that much invested in my car. probably closer to half that. and why aren't we talking about cars with basic bolt-ons? i mean i would hardly consider my car to be fully modded for bolt-ons. i've still got a lot left to do: headers, cams, gearing (diff), pulleys, traction control delete, samco intake elbow, decent software (AA's sucks for my car, re: unplugged MAF), and i'm sure there's more that i just can't think of right now. that's almost the same amount of mods left to do compared to what i already have done. after all that is done you can probably say i'll have around $6k in my car.


i'll run you, but only if that's ok with Mpowered95. i'll even let you choose if you want me to weight reduce my car, or not, to offset your weight advantage over me.

Cool, I'm down as soon as the S50 is broken in. You're not far from my Dad's house in Westchester.

Edit: I have around $6.5k just in building the S50 alone.

[Mpowered95]

your exhaust and flywheel and clutch combo is nearly 2k, so i dont know if youve had some 5 finger discounts or what:boobies

[triggrhaapi]

Here's a perfect illustration of how close the two are:

Year: 1995
Build Date: 04/95
Mods: Eurosport 3.5 hfm & Carbon intake, ITG Filter, Conforti SW, Active Auto. Trackpipe, UUC Exhaust
Dyno Type: Dynojet
Dyno Conditions: 83.17 F, 47% Humidity STD: 1.07
Gear Dynoed: 4th with stock 3.15 diff.
Peak HP: 233.54 SAE @ 6,900 rpm
Peak Torque: 220.22 SAE @ 4,500 rpm

Year: 1999
Build Date: 11/98
Mods:
3.5"Ecis Cai
Euro HFM
M50 Manifold
Stromung Exhaust
AA Custom Software (crap)

Dyno Type: Dynojet
Dyno Conditions: Around noon Hot summer day and humid
Gear Dynoed: 4th
Peak HP: 238 SAE
Peak Torque: 224 SAE

Both have essentially the same mods, with the exception of the trackpipe, but the S52 has a superior stock midpipe, so whatever.

Edit: That's what 162cc gets you. 5whp SAE

[jworms]

your exhaust and flywheel and clutch combo is nearly 2k, so i dont know if youve had some 5 finger discounts or what:boobies

yeah those were the most expensive things to buy, but yes i did get a pretty good deal on them.

[Mpowered95]

Here's a perfect illustration of how close the two are:

Year: 1995
Build Date: 04/95
Mods: Eurosport 3.5 hfm & Carbon intake, ITG Filter, Conforti SW, Active Auto. Trackpipe, UUC Exhaust
Dyno Type: Dynojet
Dyno Conditions: 83.17 F, 47% Humidity STD: 1.07
Gear Dynoed: 4th with stock 3.15 diff.
Peak HP: 233.54 SAE @ 6,900 rpm
Peak Torque: 220.22 SAE @ 4,500 rpm

Year: 1999
Build Date: 11/98
Mods:
3.5"Ecis Cai
Euro HFM
M50 Manifold
Stromung Exhaust
AA Custom Software (crap)

Dyno Type: Dynojet
Dyno Conditions: Around noon Hot summer day and humid
Gear Dynoed: 4th
Peak HP: 238 SAE
Peak Torque: 224 SAE

Both have essentially the same mods, with the exception of the trackpipe, but the S52 has a superior stock midpipe, so whatever.

Edit: That's what 162cc gets you. 5whp SAE

this is why the driver is such a big deal

[Volf]

3.91lsd was an option for the 97-98 auto M3's. I had a 95 M3 5spd and my diff blew so I swapped out a 3.91lsd from a 97 auto M3. Needless to say I raped most E36 M3's short of FI.

No, the 3.91 LSD was never an option on the M3



All 3.2-liter M3s equipped with a manual gearbox (including SMG) use a shorter 3.23:1 final drive and limited slip differential. North American-spec M3s with the ZF five-speed automatic transmission have an even shorter 3.38:1 rear end, also with limited slip. In addition, all 3.2-liter North American-spec E36 M3s are equipped with Automatic Stability Control plus Traction (ASC+T) which can apply the brakes and/or reduce engine power in order to maintain traction. It includes an orange warning light under the M logo in the instrument cluster and can be switched off via a console-mounted button.

Sorry but you're incorrect. The diff you got from the other car had that differential swapped into it also.

[m3chaser]

did Jworms ever race anyone? Did anyone ever race the S52 vs the S50?

I will race my S52 M Coupe against someones modded S50 if they want? All I have is an intake that I put together myself and completely bald tires. Perhaps if I can one with a little weight reduction and intake, chip, exhaust it would be a fair run?

[Balthazarr]

Quit trying to justify your shittay purchase. 95's suck for numerous reasons, with the 3.0 liter S50 being at the top of the list. If it was so great, why did it only account for one out of five years of production on U.S. models? Out with the old, in with the new.

Your S52US has an M50 manifold on it.
Talk about delusional...:rolleyes



Quit trying to justify the fact that you didn't have the money to purchase a newer car. I doubt very many people set out to buy a 95 on purpose. You bought it because it was all you could afford and if you could have gotten a newer one, you would have. You can call me a snob if you want to. But you guys just sound completely and stupidly delusional.

A few $K isn't going to be much of a deciding factor considering most are financed.

[jworms]

did Jworms ever race anyone? Did anyone ever race the S52 vs the S50?

nope, nobody ever went any further with the idea than what you can see in this thread. i'm more than willing if anyone with an s50 still wants to do some runs.

[porschefan1013]

Your S52US has an M50 manifold on it.
Talk about delusional...:rolleyes


Says the 1995 M3 owner...

It does more for my motor than for yours.

[M III Pilot]

Quit trying to justify your shittay purchase. 95's suck for numerous reasons, with the 3.0 liter S50 being at the top of the list. If it was so great, why did it only account for one out of five years of production on U.S. models? Out with the old, in with the new.
Simple answer is OBD1 --> OBD2, no great mystery here.


Quit trying to justify the fact that you didn't have the money to purchase a newer car. I doubt very many people set out to buy a 95 on purpose. You bought it because it was all you could afford and if you could have gotten a newer one, you would have. You can call me a snob if you want to. But you guys just sound completely and stupidly delusional.
And why in the world would anyone bother to justify their purchase to you, with your name it seems like you've lost your way.

Call me an ignorant, delusional 95 owner if you want.
Makes no difference to me what your opinion is, because neither one of us has a real M3 engine.

[Balthazarr]

Says the 1995 M3 owner...

It does more for my motor than for yours.

http://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:wt-QwMcJc9_lyM:www.ehponline.org/docs/2005/113-2/crybaby.jpg




http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.ehponline.org/docs/2005/113-2/crybaby.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.ehponline.org/docs/2005/113-2/forum.html&h=350&w=250&sz=15&tbnid=wt-QwMcJc9_lyM:&tbnh=120&tbnw=86&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcrybaby%2Bpic%26um%3D1&start=1&sa=X&oi=images&ct=image&cd=1

Specious argument. What mani would you suggest for the S50US?

B-B-But it comes from a lesser motor...how can you adulterate that S52US with inferior parts??
You lose torque down low.

[xplosiveg06]

i have both and i love 3.0 and the 3.2.

i cant say which is faster because my 3.0 is stock and my 3.2 is fully modded

[m3chaser]

nope, nobody ever went any further with the idea than what you can see in this thread. i'm more than willing if anyone with an s50 still wants to do some runs.

Jworms you really shouldn't be racing any S50's unless they are modded like you. I would have raced you in my 95 M3 because I most likely would have given you a run for your money especially from 0-100mph.

I would really love to see what you could do at a good track at sea level. I think my old M3 would have done well against you from any mph simply because of the 3.91lsd and I am a competent driver( not the best, just a decent driver).

[fcvapor05]

This will never end. It depends on almost everything- driver, mod combo, blah blah blah

[MELSM3]

This may be trivial to all of you that have tons of money, but when you get that dreaded check eng. light and have to replace the O2 sensor/s you'll be glad you have a 3.0L and only have to replace 1.

[sausrigging]

Theres a reason when s50 guys replace there engine with a s52 after money shifting.. So obdI s52 ftw.
I would have saved alot of dough if i would have got a s50 over the s52.. To me the advantages were clear.

[M3Punk]

I saw a s50 vs s52 dyno a while ago.The s52 made more torque and power up to about 5k where the s50 matched it in power but still lower in torque.

put it this way

take both cars 100% stock

both put down about 200whp with the s52 having more torque,now slap on the m50 manifold,making them both have the same intake system and the s52makes 220whp :redspot
well to make it even slap on a better flowing headers/exhaust on the s50, just to make it fair...:shifty
stock v stock MEANS stock v stock. not stock...oh wait change the intake to a better flowing intake.... v actual stock

[fcvapor05]

Theres a reason when s50 guys replace there engine with a s52 after money shifting.. So obdI s52 ftw.
I would have saved alot of dough if i would have got a s50 over the s52.. To me the advantages were clear.

There obviously is a displacement advantage between the S50 and S52; if I have to choose between stock motors though, I go with the OBD I version. Obvious, since my car is a 95. If/when this motor gives up the ghost, an OBD I 3.2 liter will replace it.

[xplosiveg06]

Jworms you really shouldn't be racing any S50's unless they are modded like you. I would have raced you in my 95 M3 because I most likely would have given you a run for your money especially from 0-100mph.

I would really love to see what you could do at a good track at sea level. I think my old M3 would have done well against you from any mph simply because of the 3.91lsd and I am a competent driver( not the best, just a decent driver).

im assuming your car was a 5-speed. was the m3 still good on gas with the 3.91lsd? what rpms was ur car running on the highway doing 65 and 80mph ?

[sausrigging]

There obviously is a displacement advantage between the S50 and S52; if I have to choose between stock motors though, I go with the OBD I version. Obvious, since my car is a 95. If/when this motor gives up the ghost, an OBD I 3.2 liter will replace it.

ObdI or II aside I dont think that theres anyone honestly prefer the 3.0 over the 3.2 if they had to repower.

[inkface]

Huge open ended question....

I've pulled car lengths on s52 M's and Mcoupes from a 2nd gear roll. All depends on the health of the engine, driver, etc...


makes sense

[fcvapor05]

ObdI or II aside I dont think that theres anyone honestly prefer the 3.0 over the 3.2 if they had to repower.

3.0 L for RPM reasons...

[inkface]

uuc pullies,shark software,uuc fly wheel,aa gen 3,asc delete,cdv delete,plasma coils,3.5 in intake ect.

I have had the M50 manifold on and off my car...Its off the car now because I always drive the car around town where the extra low end helps.

After driving a 95 M3 I was so glad I got a 3.2 no offence but the s50 have no balls at all down low.

You should test drive a 3.2 and feel how peppy they are down low,its a huge difference.


it is a HUGE DIFFERENCE.. i have driven a 3.0 with intake chip exhaust and would still rather have my 3.2


but i would like to mod my 3.2 .. dont have 2k to drop on it at the moment

[inkface]

I'm down for some runs before I throw the m50 mani back on.I can keep up with stage 2 s4s and know what s50s can do.

Ill even put money on it.

from 2.5k-4k were making gobs more torque(+225 at the wheels)and have the same top end,once you mod an s52 you have a better power band threw the whole rev range.

This was the big debate back in the day and its been proven time and time again.


true...with low end torque you are already there

[3.2Powerslut]

I had an s50 in my 95 and did the s52 swap. all i had was a turner chip. My friend had a 95 3.0 with intake, exhaust, light weight fly wheel, short shift, and i think that is about it. I would pull about a car length on him around 5k in 4th.

[Spec3VR6]

i dont understand how so many people can argue this, lol. BMW wouldnt upgrade the displacement just for the hell of it..there was obvious merits to it besides compensating for the OBDII system.

The way I see it is that the s50 is slightly better for modding JUST for the fact that its OBD1 and u dont have to necessarily worry about seeing annoying blinking lights and codes and what not. The 3.2 has as much potential if not more..PERHAPS its a bit more expensive to extract power from it..i dont know..i dont even really believe that, lolol.

...increase in displacement/more torque with almost identical weight to tote around...if i could have a s52 id be more then happy. but im still happy as a clam rippin my 95 around too. its still an m3 :)

[Serious]

i dont understand how so many people can argue this, lol. BMW wouldnt upgrade the displacement just for the hell of it..there was obvious merits to it besides compensating for the OBDII system.

bmw wanted its engines to make more torque, it has nothing to do with the switch to obd2. smaller intake runners, bigger displacement.

[Mpowered95]

i love my 3.0 and if any 3.2s wanna piece... lemmmmmmmme know, good drivers beat bigger motors:buttrock

[porschefan1013]

i love my 3.0 and if any 3.2s wanna piece... lemmmmmmmme know, good drivers beat bigger motors:buttrock

Even S54's?

[BMW916]

my offer still stands in sacramento!! anyone want a piece let me know!!:evil2

[Mpowered95]

we are talking about 3.2 or 3.0 powered e36s last time i checked. if some1 has an s54 in an e36..... i might want to buy it, haha

[BMW916]

we are talking about 3.2 or 3.0 powered e36s last time i checked. if some1 has an s54 in an e36..... i might want to buy it, haha

what you might want to do is get rid of those rims!! oh and chin :rolleyes

[Mpowered95]

welllll buddy, since you opened your big mouth... they are beater rims while i was getting my ds1's painted. i mean if you gotta prob with my beater rims, you can always :bj

[Mpowered95]

oh and even with my beater rims, my car is still nicer than yours, haha

[TH3 Shifty]

Im new here.. and still learning about BMW engines and so forth.. but i come from the LS1 world.. and what we do for displacement increase is simply change out the short block.. and leave the rest the same.. For instance the LS1 is a 5.7 and the LS2 is a 6.0.. all we need to do is change the knock sensor's and cam sensor..

is it not the same with the BMW engines? If i have lets say a 3.0 95 OBDI engine. can I not simply change out the short block of the 3.0 for the 3.2 and keep the rest of the top the same? Did they increase bore size or stroke to get the .2 liters?

sorry, im just kind of confused as to why this has not been brought up yet.

[GreenBeem93]

Im new here.. and still learning about BMW engines and so forth.. but i come from the LS1 world.. and what we do for displacement increase is simply change out the short block.. and leave the rest the same.. For instance the LS1 is a 5.7 and the LS2 is a 6.0.. all we need to do is change the knock sensor's and cam sensor..

is it not the same with the BMW engines? If i have lets say a 3.0 95 OBDI engine. can I not simply change out the short block of the 3.0 for the 3.2 and keep the rest of the top the same? Did they increase bore size or stroke to get the .2 liters?

sorry, im just kind of confused as to why this has not been brought up yet.

You can do this, with a couple other tweaks. It is called s52 OBD1, and generally ends up being a very powerful motor.

[Balthazarr]

It has been mentioned; several times.
The S50 head fits on the S52 block with M50 manifold and OBDI.

Stroke was the primary change for displacement increase.

One thing is the crankshaft which on the S50 is capable of sustained higher revs.
So there is a trade-off for the extra displacement.

[sausrigging]

3.0 L for RPM reasons...

My s52 stops making more power after 6500.. Unless your engine makes power all the way past 7,000 then I see no reason to flog it as such

[GGray]

The 96+ M3 has a 3.23 gear the 95 has a 3.15 gear. BMW shifted the trq lower with the manifold. Combined with the gear change makes the 96+ seem snapper down low.

The heads are exactly the same, go check the part numbers and then cross check the valve used in all the M/S 50/52 motors... The cam trays are diffrent as are the cams. S52 has hollow cams, S50 does not.

Both don't like to rev past 7100rpm..has to do with lifters which are the same. Solid lifter conversions will run well past 7200rpm cost $$$$$ the S50 does seem to like to rev but this is just due to the longer crank stroke.

I drag raced my friend in his 97 (stock) when my 95 was stock. We were dead even until we stopped playing on the interstate. Where I did notice his car being slightly snappier was around town. He could pull off at red lights under mid throttle from me. Once again this is from the gear, and manifold. This was on a road trip we took with the BMW club.

The 96+ cars are also slightly heavier than a 95.

My 95 S52 making 238whp/245trq with the 3.38 diff, would out pull any 96+ car at any speed.

Way to many diffrences between a 95M3, and 96M3 to just compare the engines.

The best comparison would be a 95 S50 car, and a 95 with an S52 and the exact same mods.

[Balthazarr]

Both don't like to rev past 7100rpm..has to do with lifters which are the same. Solid lifter conversions will run well past 7200rpm cost $$$$$ the S50 does seem to like to rev but this is just due to the longer crank stroke.

.

S52 has the longer stroke.
91mm vs 85.4, I think.

[GGray]

;)

Yes mis typed..S50 likes to rev due to shorter stroke...

I type fast and spell horrid...and don't check it:D

[m3chaser]

im assuming your car was a 5-speed. was the m3 still good on gas with the 3.91lsd? what rpms was ur car running on the highway doing 65 and 80mph ?

Yes it was a 5spd. Gas mileage suffered, but i still got 23mpg on the highway and about 18 in the city.

At 65mph I was right at 3300rpms and at 80 I was at 4100rpms. I had 235/40/18's all around as well and a 7k redline.

That car was soo much fun in every gear. My M Coupe is getting 3.73lsd as soon as I get tires and do some maintenance on it.

[Mpowered95]

i cant wait to get my 3.38!!!!

[GGray]

i cant wait to get my 3.38!!!!

Yup! The 3.38 and my LTW flywheel were my favorite mods!!

You'll dig it!