V6 into 2002

[mandoloid02]

Hello and thanks in advance for any help or opinions.
From a previous racing opportunity many years ago, I have a GM 2.5L V6 available...that at the time made outstanding power. The ultimate destination is a 2002 that I have always thought was a great car. Coupled to a GM 700 R4 auto transmission, this seems like it might make a great little combination. Have any of you seen or had any experience with this type of...perhaps sacreligious conversion?

[de45t]

anything is possible with the right amount of $$$$!

[promp3]

that sounds like an old guy swap. are you an old guy?

[E36LUVA]

Hello and thanks in advance for any help or opinions.
From a previous racing opportunity many years ago, I have a GM 2.5L V6 available...that at the time made outstanding power. The ultimate destination is a 2002 that I have always thought was a great car. Coupled to a GM 700 R4 auto transmission, this seems like it might make a great little combination. Have any of you seen or had any experience with this type of...perhaps sacreligious conversion?


I've never heard of a GM 2.5 V6. Is that a Euro GM engine or something. The thought of a 700R4 in any BMW makes me cringe.....

[speedyhawk101]

put a manual tranny in it or don't do it at all. That's my opinion.

2.5 V6.......????

2.8 V6
3.1 V6
3.4 V6
3.8 V6
4.3 V6

I may have missed one but I doubt it was a 2.5

Not trying to be a dick. But I've just never heard of a 2.5 GM V6. That doesn't mean it's not possible

[rao]

I'm not sure why people on this forum give everyone a hard time. It is not like he is claiming that a 2.5 liter V6 is the best motor ever :)

If you want to put it into your BMW, then go for it.

If you want some help though, post up exactly what motor you are talking about.

[speedyhawk101]

I'm not sure why people on this forum give everyone a hard time. It is not like he is claiming that a 2.5 liter V6 is the best motor ever :)

If you want to put it into your BMW, then go for it.

If you want some help though, post up exactly what motor you are talking about.

Never said it was a bad engine. I've just never heard of it.

But I do believe the man asked for opinions........So

Auto Tranny= hard time from me. Auto's are LAME LAME LAME!!! Don't be lazy, shift some freakin gears. Just my 2cents.

Have a wonderful day everyone!:)

[tekviper]

put a manual tranny in it or don't do it at all. That's my opinion.

2.5 V6.......????

2.8 V6
3.1 V6
3.3 V6
3.4 V6
3.5 V6
3.8 V6
3.9 V6
4.3 V6

I may have missed one but I doubt it was a 2.5

Not trying to be a dick. But I've just never heard of a 2.5 GM V6. That doesn't mean it's not possible

I'm sure theres more, but I haven't heard of a 2.5 Gm v6 either.

[SDKmann]

Ugh, I honestly wonder how someone could know enough about cars to do this swap but still not figure out that this car will suck. Heavy V6 in a 2002= plowing through every corner. Auto trans in the car that plows= worst idea Ive ever heard in my life. Use the money to drop in a turbo four and put in a 5 spd from a E21. Hey, mabye with the money you save you can buy some coilovers and make it handle better instead of worse. Why would you want to take away every advantage that car has?

[mandoloid02]

Messages similar to what I expected? hmmm? perhaps...
The reason you haven't heard of the 2.5 was that it was a 2.8 that had to be "resized" for the class. It's a Ryan Falconer triple Weber 12.something to 1 little rocket that moved a much larger vehicle in a way that was hard to believe...and I'd bet the weights won't be too disimilar. If it get's pushed back that should help the balance but it will probably hurt my winter plow performance...you're right. As far as the 700R4 is concerned, it's easy to attach to the back of the motor and the auto could serve as a "viscous" coupling to not pound the back of the car...unless these 3rd members are really stout(?). Anyway, it sounds like no one so far has seen something like this...all the more reason!
As far as sounding like an old guy conversion...that made me laugh, thanks!

[speedyhawk101]

Don't worry about the guy above. He's mister negitivity 2 years running. They may have to surgically remove the stick. But the docs have yet to figure out how such a large stick was lodged in that loacation.:D

[E36LUVA]

You didn't say it was a Falconer V6, now yuh talking man. Post some pics and specs of that motor please. A T5Z trans would be great behind that motor but you would have to beef up the rear though....

[LeMansGT]

A turbo ecotec and 5 spd out of a Sky maybe fun.

Don't bother with a GM V6s other than the 3.8 and 4.3 motors.

[323I Junkie]

I have a feeling this is one of those DOHC 90 Degree V6's, huh?
And dont go Auto. There are a plethera of other transmissions out there with the same bolt pattern. And if you do use a chevy auto, use a 200 4r, same basic trans but lighter. Ive thought about a 700 in my L7.

[mandoloid02]

great thoughts, thank you.
Say, promp3, you mentioned an "old guy swap" is that what the picture by your name is?...an old guy swap? Looks like it works...but those sideburns...
I'd post a photo or two of the motor if I could figure out how...what's the trick?
Thanks!

[promp3]

haha, thats ABBA the swedish '70's sensation.

you're idea just seems like somthing a dad or grandpa would do, I still consider my self a child so I do child-ish things, like big, loud and impractical things, usually dangerous and illegal.
I know a bunch of old guys that do cool stuff but use components that I think are lame. Take this one old guy I know, built his own damn car from scratch, a 2 seater, sort of like a noble/lotus/Trex (with 4 wheels) thing, but guess what he used for the powertrain, drivetrain and suspention...a cadilac seville... cool if you are an old geezer... thats the impression I got from your lame gm v6 auto trans 2002 combo idea.

my friend has a orignal auto 3-speed 02 and it is about as fast and fun to drive as a school bus, the auto trans is a total buzz kill if it just gets a 5-speed shoved under there it would be a quick, fun little car.

[M3govroom]

Vroommmmmmm

[M3govroom]

Vroommmmmmmmmmm

[M3govroom]

V6 Schnelllllllllllllllll Vroooommmm

[M3govroom]

Mouhahahahahaha

[M3govroom]

no seriously .. gm sucks

[323I Junkie]

m3govroom, go away or post something usefull

OP, did your engine pics ever get up?

[mandoloid02]

323I, What is the trick for posting a photo?
I have a ZZ430 available as well...it would push a 7 quite nicely...
Thanks

[323I Junkie]

go to photobucket dot com
make an account, its free.
then go to upload, upload your photo.
When its done, copy the IMG tag and paste it into your message

or email me the photo, and Ill do it

g_u_88201@yahoo.com

[323I Junkie]

Okay , here goes the pic. After talking to him about the engine, i think it would rock. cant say I agree with the automatic though. There are one hundred brazillion 5 speeds out there from 2.8 f-bodies and s-10s that would go in. I just gave one away.

heres the pic

do it. it will fit like a dream

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y217/agurule/Falconer1.jpg

[323I Junkie]

so what you have there is a destroked 2.8 liter with velocity stack intake, apparently some form of dry sump or oil cooler..probably tacks 8 thousand and I bet makes at least a solid 250 horses

[promp3]

yea that motor does look alot cooler than what I had imagined, it probably sounds like hell, and is a bit heavy. still, automatic and 2002 should never be uttered in the same sentence, to me its like a mg, alfa spider, or austin healey automatic, some people would think its cool, but it should never be done, its sacreligious. like I said my friend has an auto 02 and it is awfull, its just no fun, bmw should never have made it. its like a smokin hot chick but insted of boobs she has ears.... you could see how good it could be but, it just isnt good.

[HBpredhunter]

why not get a s14 motor or supped up m42/44. would fit and wouldnt get a pile gm engine...???

[E36LUVA]

That engine probably is heavy unless it has alloy heads (its hard to tell with the red paint) and it probably sounds awesome (V6/60) with those webers but yeah it needs an auto cuz it probably has no torque. It may not be a swap that anyone has ever done but it would still be cool.....

[323I Junkie]

geez :rolleyes:


does anyone bother to read before they do or say anything?
S14's are heavy too. S14's are so heavy that people have swapped in modern alloy six cylinders like the s50/52 and hardly gained any weight.

"it needs an auto cuz it probably haz no torque"?


I am sorry, the internet is a great place, but you need to learn where to get infomration from.


the 2.8 V6 is a tiny, tiny little 60 degree v6 originally developed by oldsmobile. It makes great torque in the stock configuration, and any V6 like that is going to outdo a 4 cylinder of the same configuration. Not to mention that automatics are no more designed for low torque engines than than they are for BMW's. Thats what stall converters are for, and thats a drag racing thing


let the guy do this, its cool. but please, when you talk, make it from your head and not your ass.

talk him into a five speed

[E36LUVA]

geez :rolleyes:


"it needs an auto cuz it probably has no torque"?






Sorry I meant a 5 speed not auto. The reason why it probably has no torque is due to the reduced displacement (2.5L) and the huge carburetion. "mandoloid02" is probably amused at us all for the childish banter over his idea :embarrasm.

[mandoloid02]

"mandoloid02" is probably amused at us all for the childish banter"

Not at all you guys...I posted this here because you guys take these things (too) seriously. Hey, by the time y'all are a little older (he.he) you'll have had a pile'o cars and some will have been better than others. What the heck, this sounds like a good way for me to screw up a nice little German Nova.
And although I am predisposed to go AT...I wouldn't rule out the stirring stick either...it just seems to me that the little diff doesn't need too hard a spanking and ATs are great for softening the blow. That and a good set of brakes with a small (high stall speed/enagement) converter, ((my son just read over my shoulder and initially agrees with all who are ATphobic, we're talking about a performance automatic...it is something different)) you would be amazed at what you can do with an AT. Weight transfer/directional changes are actually easier because you can load/unload the chassis fast. You drive 'em with two feet.
Anyway, I still have to find the "donor for the organ", I have a lead on one with a dead engine that I am following now.
Keep up the good work! and thanks for your help 323I
Jeff

[promp3]

you can left foot brake a manual car easly, and it is a common practice.

looks like I did guess right and you are infact an old geezer :D listen to your son he is right! how do you feel about honda gold wings? a 2,000lb motorcycle with a v6, a/c, cruise control, cd changer, navigation, cb radio, reverse gear, microwave oven, livewell .ect. old people think its cool to have all that crap on a bike, but it seems to me the complete opposite reason for why you ride a bike in the first place... to be on a motorcycle.

if you want a drag nova by god put a automatic in it. I think its a terrable idea to have a 900 hp big block with a manual transmition. aside from the novelty of bieng totally out of control, it wouldn't work very well at all . If you want somthing to pick up grocries with that you don't have to shift, they already make plenty of those with no fabrication needed, just check out the toyota dealer they have a bunch of sleep inducing vehicles.
if you want to be unique be unique, but chances are high that you could end up with a bastard car that dosent excel in any catigory,
like putting a rotory in a cadillac with smg transmittion and 44' super swampers, it sure would be unique, but it would basicly suck at every thing you could want it to do. I think there is a reason people do certian things more commonly than others, becasue they work. That motor does look really sweet, I think it would be cool if it was in a vega or somthing and make a car like this:
http://www.cosworthvega.com/images/3136GoldenEagle_004.jpg
...but it would not be bad stuffed in it 2002 just no automatic!

[mandoloid02]

well, promp3...you prompt me to say goodbye.
WOW, when time came for the spelling bee in school you must have had to sit down right away!?
Regardless, whether it be in an 02 with or without an AT, it should be fun.
Hey, thanks again 323I, thanks for maintaining some civility in the forum.
Jeff

[promp3]

I don't know why? I am bieng civil, just giving you my opinon. so what if I can't spell well, I am not writing a frickin disertation! can you not comprehend somthing if it is not spelled exactly right?
you need to lighten up or you won't be able to handle this forum for too long.

btw my sn stands for protege mp3 it was my first car I carryed it over from the mazda forums. its pro-mp3 not promp-3 every body gets it wrong but I have had it for so long that I don't want to change it.

[E36LUVA]

Its amazing how easily people become unglued. Lets all calm down and move on with the swap at hand. mandoloid02 just do the swap and show us how its done man. Auto or manual who cares, the car will be bast a to drive and best of all it would be your car that you built. Go for it.

[genocide98]

you can left foot brake a manual car easly, and it is a common practice.

looks like I did guess right and you are infact an old geezer :D listen to your son he is right! how do you feel about honda gold wings? a 2,000lb motorcycle with a v6, a/c, cruise control, cd changer, navigation, cb radio, reverse gear, microwave oven, livewell .ect. old people think its cool to have all that crap on a bike, but it seems to me the complete opposite reason for why you ride a bike in the first place... to be on a motorcycle.

if you want a drag nova by god put a automatic in it. I think its a terrable idea to have a 900 hp big block with a manual transmition. aside from the novelty of bieng totally out of control, it wouldn't work very well at all . If you want somthing to pick up grocries with that you don't have to shift, they already make plenty of those with no fabrication needed, just check out the toyota dealer they have a bunch of sleep inducing vehicles.
if you want to be unique be unique, but chances are high that you could end up with a bastard car that dosent excel in any catigory,
like putting a rotory in a cadillac with smg transmittion and 44' super swampers, it sure would be unique, but it would basicly suck at every thing you could want it to do. I think there is a reason people do certian things more commonly than others, becasue they work. That motor does look really sweet, I think it would be cool if it was in a vega or somthing and make a car like this:
http://www.cosworthvega.com/images/3136GoldenEagle_004.jpg
...but it would not be bad stuffed in it 2002 just no automatic!

So you're saying rather than putting a custom domestic old(er)school race-tuned engine of a different configuration into a bmw, he should go ahead and turbo an m10 or do a X50/52 swap and cam/turbo it like everyone else and their brother? That's unique how??

The weight and size should not be a problem. A turbocharged m10 or similar would weigh slightly less than a 2.8L v6. They're made of the same material I think (cast iron) and with only 1 litre more of displacement in a more compact, lighter engine configuration, I couldn't forsee much of a difference at all, especially once you tack on the huge turbo+manifold, wastegate, blowoff valve, etc you're looking at roughly the same weight anyway.

This guy isn't talking about putting a cast iron big block into an '02.

I could see an easy 250-300 horse, roughly the same amount of torque coming from this car. So Promp3, are you telling me that a 300 horse bmw 2002 with roughly the same weight (+/- 50lbs I'd guess.) is a 'bastard car' which doesn't excel in any category? How many mildly tuned 2002s do you know of that make 300 horse?

Some people don't want to go out and look for months on end for engines, some people don't want to kick down $6000 for the motor out of a wrecked m3 to do an engine swap. Some people enjoy taking what they have laying around and making something of it, stomping down new pathways in uncharted territories rather than following what the rest of the flock has done.

To the Threadstarter/Original Poster:

I think that what you're doing is cool. Making due with what you've got is very admirable, and also very unique. I think that a domestic v6 power-plant in a bmw 2002 is a great idea. It definitely isn't something you see every day.. Even when you're looking for it. Matching an oldschool styled car with an oldschool tuned engine, Imagine popping the hood to reveal that gnarly looking badboy in the place of an m10! That's just something else, man!

I've never seen it done myself. I'd assume you'd have to fab up motor/tranny mounts, etc. but I know that the motor isn't that big and it should fit.

The main thing would probably be getting the motor mounted and fit correctly first, and then you could probably head to the junkyard or craigslist to find a few transmissions and see which would bolt up the best.

Personally, I would go with a manual trans, but that's because of preference. If you enjoy automatics that's fine, your car should still have MORE than enough Naturally Aspirated GUTS to roast the tires all day long. 250~ horse in an '02 is no joke, and it's definitely not child's play. Auto trans or not, that thing WILL move.

Good luck and keep us posted! Hopefully these hardheaded bimmer fans didn't scare you away. You just gotta shake off the haters... haha.