Cam kit vs. Pulley Kit: Which is better bang for the buck?

[edboc]

In comparing the Evosport pulley kit vs. a Cam kit from either Eurosport or Turner, it seems like there's more bang for the buck with the pulley kit. I know both kits have been talked about throughly, but what do people think?

[BJO]

pulley kit 10hp $350-400. the cam kit will give you more hp, 40-50 but it costs over $3k plus there is at least $500 for the cam install.

[edboc]

How about the Turner Package for $1079 for the camshafts alone? Is that pretty much useless without putting in the chip, 24 lb injectors, and Euro HFM?

[BJO]

to do it right you need to upgrade the injectors and the ecu.

[Kenzo]

ERT Underdrive $195 plus better gains.

Of coarse your going to blow your engine...NOT!

[Def]

There was a big discussion a while ago about OBDII cars and the necessity of software for cams.

The general consensus is that you can drop in cams in your OBDII car without software and be just fine. You will get some nice gains, but you will not be 'optimally' tuned. You might be sacrificing a few HP here and there due to the AFR and timing maps not being tuned to their fullest potential.

That said, the pulley kit will probably give you ~8-10rwhp and cost maybe $400 max. Cams will give 10-15rwhp probably, and cost $1k, and they are difficult to install.

[eclou]

Start simple and easy is my rec. ERT pulleys like Kenzo. To be doing serious mods like cams you either need time and skillz, or money. Don't have either then I would not recommend getting in too deep. Looking at your mod list and location, I would consider the fan delete as well. Key for Boston driving is torque. The cam kit will invariably take away some street oomph. The only places for you to "hit it" are Rt 9 or Storrow. Neither is going to come close to Nurburgring, or really let you ride the HP peak.

Eugene

[Low Level]

Anyone know what kinda gains a pulley kit would make in an E36 328??

-AJ

[bmmpwr232]

Heh, get em both, then theres no need to look back and worry about which one would have been better.

[edboc]

Yeah, I guess Boston kind of sucks in terms of getting Mods and where to drive. I don't think I'm going to do the fan delete, and I probably won't do the cam kit either. The Evosport Pulley Kit, Jim C. chip, and the CAI will probably be the furthest I will go.

[themadhatter]

have you guys looked at this setup yet?

a claimed 300hp for an obd-II kit - most likely bhp but it is a complete kit including software by Jim C himself. :)

Eurosport's Cams (http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com/cams.html)

http://www.eurosporthighperformance.com/images/cams/camkit_small.jpg

they even post a dyno chart for the setup at the wheel showing just under 25owhp

it's something to consider.

-Ron

[Ron17]

What's the site for the ERT Pullies??

[Kenzo]

www.europeanracing.com (ERT=European Racing Technologies)

I just did the pullies and fan delete.

No cooling problems yet and received good feedback, located in Houston.

ERT Pullies have an additional benifit 5 lbsweight reduction off the crank, quasi-lighten flywheel.

Fan was 3.6 lbs but with viscous coupling not exactly a pound per pound engine rotating mass reduction.

The car really revs quickly now and very noticable in 1st & 2nd gear.

[themadhatter]

alot of companies have good pully kits (without touching the harmonic balancer/crank pully) now, Evo has a set for the E36, Rogue has a set for the E46 with an E36 application in the testing phase.

I'll be buying one for my new motor when it's ready, but that came kit looks promising. Anybody have numbers for a BONE stock E36 M3 OBD-II?

[nicot]

Is ERT a crank or underdrive ?? y is it so cheap $195 ? I wont be running a LTW flywheel so I should be fine with a crank right ?

[B.Watts]

Originally posted by nicot
Is ERT a crank or underdrive ?? y is it so cheap $195 ? I wont be running a LTW flywheel so I should be fine with a crank right ?

ERT's are cheaper because its the cheaper solution. One crank pulley instead of multiple accessory pullies. It should be noted that ERT does not run their crank pullies on their World Challenge race cars...they use the EvoSport pullies. :)

We just bought a set of the new pullies that BimmerWorld is selling! Great stuff!

[B.Watts]

Originally posted by themadhatter
have you guys looked at this setup yet?

You're kidding, right? :D

I'm just messing with you because that kit has been discussed in multiple 50+ reply threads over the past year.

[aus]

Rob, that cam kit was kinda funny. The beta-testers loved it and had dyno's showing good gains. But when it came out, people got almost NOTHING from it. By nothing, I mean compared to an intake, URI pulleys and exhaust... about 225 RWHP

edboc, if you're getting the Evosport pullies, you may want to wait for the UUC or Rogue ones which are suppose to be considerably less. They should be out soon. You could then get the UUC 8 lbs flywheel/M5 clutch later when your clutch dies.

[themadhatter]

Originally posted by BMWRacerITS
You're kidding, right? :D

I'm just messing with you because that kit has been discussed in multiple 50+ reply threads over the past year.

gotcha.

I never even bothered to check since it's only been in the last two months that I've owned an S52 motor, before it wasn't even a consideration. :)

I'll run a search and start digging up old threads.

[Kenzo]

BMWRacerITS,

I enjoy your input and experence(s) here on the board.

That said, I feel your were a little misleading or missing some vital details on your quote below.

"It should be noted that ERT does not run their crank pullies on their World Challenge race cars...they use the EvoSport pullies."

I believe you that they don't run crank based underdrive pullies of their own manufacter. There is a good reason though.

The rules for that series is very restrictive on modifications. One area is fairly open, clutch, flywheel(including mass) and drive shaft.

You know better than me that racer take advantage of the rules anywhere they can.

I'm willing to bet their flywheels are light as hell and it's well know lightening the crank on both ends is a no-no.

Got to go work on the car, TWS is next weekend.

[frayed]

Cupcake, all those words when you could have just as easily said "ERT doesn't run a crank-based UDP b/c they run a light fly/race clutch assembly".

BTW, I've run both the crank-based UDP (URI's, which is essentially the same as ERT's), and Evo's. The former provides better gains. However, I'd like to run a ltw fly one of these days.

[Hellrot Sachin]

Originally posted by BMWRacerITS
ERT's are cheaper because its the cheaper solution. One crank pulley instead of multiple accessory pullies. It should be noted that ERT does not run their crank pullies on their World Challenge race cars...they use the EvoSport pullies. :)

We just bought a set of the new pullies that BimmerWorld is selling! Great stuff!


These new bimmerworld pullies, how do those compare to the others (ie: evosport). Thanks.

HRS

[Kenzo]

Originally posted by frayed
Cupcake, all those words when you could have just as easily said "ERT doesn't run a crank-based UDP b/c they run a light fly/race clutch assembly".

Don't you have some housework to do or something? :-p

[positivepower]

Sign me up for the pully kit and the fan delete.

[Jgent]

Edboc,

Why does Boston suck for mods? Turner Motor Sport is right up 95 in Amesbury.

[themadhatter]

Originally posted by positivepower
Sign me up for the pully kit and the fan delete.

fan delete kits can be purchased from bimmer95 here on bf.c or you can piece together your own setup.

I bought from bimmer95 cause he has it all ready for you and it's comlete. Besides, what's wrong with supporting another member? :)

-Ron

[frayed]

Originally posted by Hellrot Sachin
These new bimmerworld pullies, how do those compare to the others (ie: evosport). Thanks.

HRS

Practically identical. Get whichever you can get cheaper.

[EvanL]

Will I have any problems running the evosport pully kit with a Rockford Fosgate 400.4 (100 x 4 channel) amp?

[themadhatter]

nope, I ran a URI pulley kit for awhile running an RKF 800a2 and a 600a4.

just make sure you beef up your electrical system (like you should with any car stereo setup). better battery and a capiciter is a good start.

-Ron

[nicot]

After those comments Kenzo I'd like to purchase ERT crank pullies and get fan delete.

Madhatter- I'm running 3 RF amps with capacitor but stock battery will a crank pulley affect it ??

[Kenzo]

FYI, with the ERT pullies and I assume other types, when car is warmed up and idling at ~600 rpms I do notice headlamps dimming. There is always a trade-off.

[Turbo ///M50]

cant say for sure on a 328 but.. but I got 14 hp at the wheels with unothodox racing pullies on my 325is. They were the BEST upgrade dollar for dolllar than any other upgrade I did.

I would highly recommend UD pullies over cams.. plus its cheaply reversable if you go to sell your car


Originally posted by AJLamport
Anyone know what kinda gains a pulley kit would make in an E36 328??

-AJ

[themadhatter]

nicot,

you're car is still new - and you're battery is probably still pretty good. I went up to a Tsunami (optima yellow top) gel battery for confidence reasons. I trust the gel batteries characteristics more then a wet battery. there are numerous times that I've killed my battery and still have been able to start it up by waiting 10 minutes for it to "get it's act together". No jump start and I'm back on the road.

what's the size of your third amp? I see the 400/4 and the 250/1.

How is you cap holding up under the three amp load? what size cap is it?

Also, this is a question better directed to the electronic gurus in that forum. :)

-Ron

[nicot]

madhatter- My other amp is a 60xi and I have a IF RF cap. I'm asking it here cos I've heard bout not using pullies if you have a big system and wasnt sure whether it applied to crank or accessories or both.

Thanx in advance