How does this lease sound?

[Lightngsvt]

I received this email from the dealer I was talking to today. Tell me if it all adds up OK:

"

Chuck,

I do have the worksheet on the lease deal Jeff offered to you Thursday night, I don't know that he was being evasive, I'm sorry if that's what you perceived. I have all the answers to your questions, but quite frankly, I'm not sure that I can get Jeff to honor the deal today with no commitment from you . Have you discussed "car shopping" with your wife to determine if it's a viable option for you? When I go to Jeff to confirm the offer , I'm certain he'll need to call his buyer to see if he's still willing to put ALL the money in your car, I'll need a commitment from you Chuck along with the credit application faxed.



Original MSRP $39,095

Asking Price $37,995

Selling Price $33,200

Trade in Allowance $2,500 (Jeff was willing to pay if off based on $2800 balance)

Term of Lease 24 months

Term Mileage 10k miles/yr (starts at point of delivery & odometer reading is accounted for)

Money Factor .00273

Residual Rate 71% $28,105.30

Security Deposit $0 N/A

Acq Fee $825 Doc Fee $180 Title $15 Plate Transfer $8

Cap Cost Reduction $844.62

Tax 50.68

First Payment 401.50 ( Jeff Agreed to $399.00-if he'll honor the deal we'll roll the worksheet accordingly)

Fees 203.20



Total Due $1500.00



*Multiple security deposits would not lower the money factor

*23 remaining payments of $399

*Full new car warranty & Full Maintenance included



Equipment includes: Moonroof, CD Changer Prep, adaptive light control, xenon headlights, premium package, park distance control, dynamic cruise control, heated front seats, multi-function steering wheel, satellite radio prep, rain sensor wipers, auto headlights, sport package, dark burl walnut wood trim and ambient light package."

Keep in mind this is an 06 with 5000 miles that was driven by a BMW rep so Im not 100% if it is still considered new? I think it is and is being sold as a "demo".

[Jhunter]

The BMW FS acquisition fee is $625 so there is $200 of dealer markup there. The documentation fee is all dealer markup. There is probably also a dealer mark-up on the money factor. You can find listings of current money factors by year and model by searching on the net.

It all adds up as presented except the residual value amount. If the percentage is 71% the residual value amount should be 71% of MSRP including destination charge, I assume the destination charge is in your $39,095 as all the other number came out when I put them in my spreadsheet. The residual value dollar amount is close but I don't know why it would be off.

It is still considered new as it has not been titled yet. You get the extra miles on the warranty also. But practically speaking it is a model year old at this point with 5,000 miles. You are getting about $6,000 off MSRP and that seems pretty good.

Funny, the tone of the email is just like what I got from my dealer a month ago when I was negotiating. Slightly patronizing, a couple uses of your name, trying to make you feel a little bit guilty. They all must go to the same training class!

[wineskigolf]

The BMW FS acquisition fee is $625 so there is $200 of dealer markup there. The documentation fee is all dealer markup. There is probably also a dealer mark-up on the money factor. You can find listings of current money factors by year and model by searching on the net.

It all adds up as presented except the residual value amount. If the percentage is 71% the residual value amount should be 71% of MSRP including destination charge, I assume the destination charge is in your $39,095 as all the other number came out when I put them in my spreadsheet. The residual value dollar amount is close but I don't know why it would be off.

It is still considered new as it has not been titled yet. You get the extra miles on the warranty also. But practically speaking it is a model year old at this point with 5,000 miles. You are getting about $6,000 off MSRP and that seems pretty good.

Funny, the tone of the email is just like what I got from my dealer a month ago when I was negotiating. Slightly patronizing, a couple uses of your name, trying to make you feel a little bit guilty. They all must go to the same training class!

My friends in the business tell me that they just get sick of dealing with mooches. Can't blame them---everyone is attempting to take their commissions away from them..

[z4guy]

So you want forum members to spend your money for you? IF you want to car get the car. If you don't want it don't get it. What's up with all you guys on this site that need someone to whipe your ass for you. These are BMWs, not Toyotas. If we have the means and the privelage of owning one then step up. Otherwise GTFO. This E92 forum is the worst.

[Lightngsvt]

Thanks for the constructive post.

[Jhunter]

My friends in the business tell me that they just get sick of dealing with mooches. Can't blame them---everyone is attempting to take their commissions away from them..

Ever see a poor new car dealer? Especially a premium brand dealer?? They make plenty of money. If the salesman doesn't think he is making enough in commissions thats his problem, he can take it up with his employer or find another job. Do you go to Walmart and offer to pay 10% over the price tag so they can pay their employees more?

How is it trying to pay the lowest amount possible is mooching?

There is nothing wrong with buyers informing themselves. Most people go years between buying cars while salesmen are doing it every day. Given the opportunity they will gouge you, your only defense is knowledge. The dealers have the ultimate power, they can always say no.

[Jhunter]

So you want forum members to spend your money for you? IF you want to car get the car. If you don't want it don't get it. What's up with all you guys on this site that need someone to whipe your ass for you. These are BMWs, not Toyotas. If we have the means and the privelage of owning one then step up. Otherwise GTFO. This E92 forum is the worst.

Why do you read threads that clearly are people asking financial questions regarding purchasing a car if it enrages you so?? Go back to the Kill Stories board.

[wineskigolf]

Ever see a poor new car dealer? Especially a premium brand dealer?? They make plenty of money. If the salesman doesn't think he is making enough in commissions thats his problem, he can take it up with his employer or find another job. Do you go to Walmart and offer to pay 10% over the price tag so they can pay their employees more?

How is it trying to pay the lowest amount possible is mooching?

There is nothing wrong with buyers informing themselves. Most people go years between buying cars while salesmen are doing it every day. Given the opportunity they will gouge you, your only defense is knowledge. The dealers have the ultimate power, they can always say no.


To use your logic: Do you go to Wal Mart and ask them "is this your best price"?? Do you do it in the grocery store. Do you do it at Nordstrom? Do you do it at the gas station? No, of course not. Why is it that people lose their brains when they want to buy a car?

[Jhunter]

To use your logic: Do you go to Wal Mart and ask them "is this your best price"?? Do you do it in the grocery store. Do you do it at Nordstrom? Do you do it at the gas station? No, of course not. Why is it that people lose their brains when they want to buy a car?

No, but there are certain purchases in this society where the norm is to negotiate a price including real estate and cars. Your post seems to indicate one should just accept a higher price on a car out for concern for the salesman standard of living. This make no sense to me. Being an informed and tough negotiator is not losing your brain when thousands of dollars are at stake.

[wineskigolf]

No, but there are certain purchases in this society where the norm is to negotiate a price including real estate and cars. Your post seems to indicate one should just accept a higher price on a car out for concern for the salesman standard of living. This make no sense to me. Being an informed and tough negotiator is not losing your brain when thousands of dollars are at stake.


It's less than 3k on a 50k car. The time/value does not make sense. I try to look at the big picture also. I sell products and some of my clients sell cars. If they can't afford to buy my product then I can't afford to buy theirs. Maybe I am a bit too ethical but I can sleep at night knowing that I am not part of the problem.

[aftp302]

If BMW did not want their dealers to sell the cars for less than MSRP, they could make a brand wide decision to have no-haggle pricing like some other manufacturers have done. Until they do this, the implication is that their dealers and customers have the ability and right to negotiate the price their product will sell for.

[wineskigolf]

If BMW did not want their dealers to sell the cars for less than MSRP, they could make a brand wide decision to have no-haggle pricing like some other manufacturers have done. Until they do this, the implication is that their dealers and customers have the ability and right to negotiate the price their product will sell for.

Have you ever heard of "price fixing"? They can't legally do that.

[Lightngsvt]

I think you need to take a few things into consideration:

1. Many of us cannot just afford to spend $40 or $50 thousand dollars on a whim. For some of us we have to work within a budget and if that means we can only spend $4 or $500 per month then there is nothing wrong with looking for a "deal"
2. The dealership / CA will not accept a deal if it means they lose money. As stated earlier, they sell cars everyday of the week so they are making money. I personally would not / do not expect them to lose money nor do I mind paying a price to give them a fair profit / commision. But 99% of the consumers are at a distinct disadvantage when purchasing a car. If a deal wont work I take no offense to the dealer saying they cant do it if it is for a legitimate reason.
3. Many of us do not know anything about leasing so what is wrong with asking those more knowledgable to look over the numbers to make sure it all adds up? I'm sure everyone purchasing a BMW is an intelligent, educated, hard working person to be able to afford such a luxury item. Why would you not want to be an educated consumer whether buying a car, toaster or real estate? that doesnt mean you want to "mooch" and get the car for free, but when paying below MSRP is the norm there is nothing wrong with paying a fair price.
4. Would you purchase real estate without negotiating the price? I know if Im dropping $500 - $600 for a property Im going to try and negotiate a better deal.

[aftp302]

Have you ever heard of "price fixing"? They can't legally do that.

Try again. Saturn.

[Jhunter]

It's less than 3k on a 50k car. The time/value does not make sense. I try to look at the big picture also. I sell products and some of my clients sell cars. If they can't afford to buy my product then I can't afford to buy theirs. Maybe I am a bit too ethical but I can sleep at night knowing that I am not part of the problem.

$2,000 or $3,000 on a car is worth my time to try to get the best deal, I don't care how much you make! People who accumulate wealth don't do it by overpaying for things they don't have to.

It is a free and open market what's more American than that? No dealer expects someone to walk in and write a check for the MSRP. Look at what the S stands for! The bottom line is the dealer can say no to any deal they want.

As for ethics, the dealers need to work on that. "I am only making $2,000 on this car" they say based on the dealer cost you diligently researched. They are not telling you they are also making money on the acquisition fee, documentation fee, training fee, the money factor, holdback allowance, manufacturer marketing assistance, manufacturer volume incentives, among others. "Oh, you should really consider the rust proofing, scotchguard, extended warranty, tire warranty, paint sealant, credit life insurance, etc, etc." All big profit margin items with little value to the buyer.

[wineskigolf]

$2,000 or $3,000 on a car is worth my time to try to get the best deal, I don't care how much you make! People who accumulate wealth don't do it by overpaying for things they don't have to.

It is a free and open market what's more American than that? No dealer expects someone to walk in and write a check for the MSRP. Look at what the S stands for! The bottom line is the dealer can say no to any deal they want.

As for ethics, the dealers need to work on that. "I am only making $2,000 on this car" they say based on the dealer cost you diligently researched. They are not telling you they are also making money on the acquisition fee, documentation fee, training fee, the money factor, holdback allowance, manufacturer marketing assistance, manufacturer volume incentives, among others. "Oh, you should really consider the rust proofing, scotchguard, extended warranty, tire warranty, paint sealant, credit life insurance, etc, etc." All big profit margin items with little value to the buyer.

Will you show me the invoice for the products that you make a living with?

[CDR]

So you want forum members to spend your money for you? IF you want to car get the car. If you don't want it don't get it. What's up with all you guys on this site that need someone to whipe your ass for you. These are BMWs, not Toyotas. If we have the means and the privelage of owning one then step up. Otherwise GTFO. This E92 forum is the worst.

If you don't like that people come here (Internet BMW Forum) to vent or ask a question you don't have to comment. If you know everything - bless you, but for there are some of us who could use advice from people with more experience.;)

I know I could use advice. How, exactly, do you whipe an @$$?:rofl

[Jhunter]

Will you show me the invoice for the products that you make a living with?

I bill by the hour so its all profit. Manufacturers release this information so don't blame people for using it.