335i in the snow?

[Feezman]

Hi guys -

I am looking at a BMW for the first time however I am a little apprehensive about the car's performance in the snow. I like the 300-hp of the 335i but the AWD on the 328xi seems more practical (but less fun). What would I have to do to the 335i to make snow a non-issue? I have heard winter tires and sand bags in the trunk. Should I wait for the 335xi? Will the AWD take away anything?

Thanks!

[wosby]

Hi guys -

I am looking at a BMW for the first time however I am a little apprehensive about the car's performance in the snow. I like the 300-hp of the 335i but the AWD on the 328xi seems more practical (but less fun). What would I have to do to the 335i to make snow a non-issue? I have heard winter tires and sand bags in the trunk. Should I wait for the 335xi? Will the AWD take away anything?

As it says on tirerack.com, tires are like shoes......dress appropriately!

I've had a 325Xi(E30) with all seasons, and a 330i(E46) with snow tires, and I felt more confident with the RWD 330 in snow tires than i ever felt with my Xi. AWD does have it's advantages, but it's the tires that make the biggest difference in snow. The only 2 advantages I found with AWD is straight line acceleration in snow, and steep inclines covered in snow. In every other situation my RWD in snow tires performed better than my AWD with all season tires. And yes, I did have four 50lb sand bags in my trunk.

Now if you get AWD AND snow tires, you'll only have to worry about other people sliding into you.

[daves335i]

As it says on tirerack.com, tires are like shoes......dress appropriately!

I've had a 325Xi(E30) with all seasons, and a 330i(E46) with snow tires, and I felt more confident with the RWD 330 in snow tires than i ever felt with my Xi. AWD does have it's advantages, but it's the tires that make the biggest difference in snow. The only 2 advantages I found with AWD is straight line acceleration in snow, and steep inclines covered in snow. In every other situation my RWD in snow tires performed better than my AWD with all season tires. And yes, I did have four 50lb sand bags in my trunk.

Now if you get AWD AND snow tires, you'll only have to worry about other people sliding into you.
So what happened in the 330i in steep includes? did you get up, just a bit slower?

[FirstClass]

RWD(snows or not) + steep inclines + snow = spinning hell
You need AWD if you live in a very hilly area like I do. (Pittsburgh) Thats the only reason I got a 328xi and not a 335i. Braking won't be any better with AWD. Handling will be a little better since the fronts can claw their way in the direction they're pointed.

In summer, the RWD will handle better and be marginally (single figure percentage) faster due to less drivetrain loss. (Assuming 335i vs. 335xi)

[greenie99]

As it says on tirerack.com, tires are like shoes......dress appropriately!

I've had a 325Xi(E30) with all seasons, and a 330i(E46) with snow tires, and I felt more confident with the RWD 330 in snow tires than i ever felt with my Xi. AWD does have it's advantages, but it's the tires that make the biggest difference in snow. The only 2 advantages I found with AWD is straight line acceleration in snow, and steep inclines covered in snow. In every other situation my RWD in snow tires performed better than my AWD with all season tires. And yes, I did have four 50lb sand bags in my trunk.

Now if you get AWD AND snow tires, you'll only have to worry about other people sliding into you.

Tires DO make a difference. The wrong tires on an AWD vehicle will lend it virtually inoperable in bad weather.

[FirstClass]

Tires DO make a difference. The wrong tires on an AWD vehicle will lend it virtually inoperable in bad weather.
Absolutely. But even with rally studs on a RWD car it will never match the hill climbing ability of AWD with the same tires.

[greenie99]

Absolutely. But even with rally studs on a RWD car it will never match the hill climbing ability of AWD with the same tires.

I agree.

[GatorM]

RWD(snows or not) + steep inclines + snow = spinning hell
You need AWD if you live in a very hilly area like I do. (Pittsburgh) Thats the only reason I got a 328xi and not a 335i. Braking won't be any better with AWD. Handling will be a little better since the fronts can claw their way in the direction they're pointed.

In summer, the RWD will handle better and be marginally (single figure percentage) faster due to less drivetrain loss. (Assuming 335i vs. 335xi)


Not with traction control. I have snows on an e36 M3 and between the grip and the ASC, it climbs hills like a mountain goat. The only problem I've ever had is clearance in deep snow.

[bmwvaemt]

Just got rid of my '05 325xi and into a new 335i.

Last winter I remember leaving my neighborhood and starting up a rather steep snow/ice covered hill. The xi made it up the hill just fine--along with a few Jeeps, a 3 series, and a 7 series--the Buick that slid backwards, then sideways, and into a tree wasn't so lucky.

So I guess the moral of that story is I am a little concerned as well (I wonder how the stock Run Flats would work...) but given that past experience and the testimony of several BMW RWD owners, I am a little less worried about how well the car will handle.

And for those of you that haven't had the chance to take one for a drive-- AWESOME car. :buttrock

Worst case scenario, I drive the Jeep, right? :shifty

[danny76]

If you live somewhere that snows you need to get the 335xi..................... I live in NYC I will waite for it I used to have a 330ci I couldn't drive it when it was snow or Ice on the road. There was nights that I wanted to go out and injoy my self, but it was snowing so i was scared to get stuck somewhere.

[docross]

just get a used 4 x 4 for the snow, how many days is this an issue in Hoboken, NJ?

[greenie99]

Hi guys -

I am looking at a BMW for the first time however I am a little apprehensive about the car's performance in the snow. I like the 300-hp of the 335i but the AWD on the 328xi seems more practical (but less fun). What would I have to do to the 335i to make snow a non-issue? I have heard winter tires and sand bags in the trunk. Should I wait for the 335xi? Will the AWD take away anything?

Thanks!

I just picked up a 328XI and even shod with Blizzaks, this car is fun!!

[Russell328is]

If you live somewhere that snows you need to get the 335xi..................... I live in NYC I will waite for it I used to have a 330ci I couldn't drive it when it was snow or Ice on the road. There was nights that I wanted to go out and injoy my self, but it was snowing so i was scared to get stuck somewhere.

With snow tires on your car in NYC, you can get around just fine.

[mkaresh]

I agree with what others have said. AWD is most necessary if you've got steep hills or deep snow. It's most necessary for traction. But it's not a substitute for proper tires when the time comes to turn or stop.

I had winter tires for the first time last year, and I quickly became a believer. I'd be inclined to get the RWD, but there are few hills where I live.

[TimG]

...that I need AWD? Here's my situation:

I'm looking at getting the 328 wagon. I'll be using it for year-round drives from NYC, up to the Catskills (small mountain area, for those who don't know), plus trips to local Catskills ski mountains.

While the drive is almost all highway, the last 1/2 mile to my house may not get plowed, at times.

There's nothing steep anywhere on my route that I've ever noticed. Just gentle hills.

I'd love to just get the RWD for the improved gas mileage (I know 2mpg difference doesn't sound like much, but it makes a big difference to me.) However, even more important than MPG, for me, is safety. And everyone outside of BMW forums keeps telling me that I really should get AWD, given where I'll be driving. I test drove the 328 today, and even the dealer told me I should get the AWD (and I made it clear that the higher gas mileage kinda turned me off, risking his sale, yet still he insisted.)

However, whenever I check one of these "how does RWD BMW do in the snow" posts, everyone says just to put snow tires on it, and you'll be fine. So which is it?!

Thanks for your thoughts.

- Tim

(And if anyone has any info on the real world MPG differences between RWD and AWD on the 3-series, I'd love to hear that too. I'm about to go searching for that info.)

[CokerRat]

It bothers me how some people, even dealers (who will remain nameless but rhyme with "divinity" lol) don't think you need to put snow tires on AWD platforms.

RE safety: it has been noted it is the tire contact patch, not the driven wheels, which determines how short you can stop or how hard you can swerve. The benefits of AWD on slippery surfaces are allowing a slightly higher cornering speed UNDER POWER and vastly improved acceleration. I have yet to find a situation where I needed those attributes rather than just slowing down a bit. Hell, half the drivers on the road here are running bald all-season tires so there's minimal opportunity to drive fast anyway in snow. Of course I live in suburbia.... so assess your own situation. Are you getting by in a FWD car with snow tires? If so, you'll be fine with RWD with snow tires. Is there really nobody in your neck of the woods driving a RWD? If AWD was truly necessary, everyone would buy AWD. Some people do need it but its more for ground clearance issues than traction.

[dadornet]

I have driven a 330xi for the past 3 years w/ all-season tires (not snows) and live in Cleveland, OH. The car handles like a champion in all conditions. We have had some pretty bad storms since I've had my car and it was able to get through anything w/ no sliding - this is the biggest advantage to AWD that I would suggest. The xi performance distributes traction where it is needed in real-time where the i will only deliver traction to the rear wheels.

I just signed the papers to get a 335i w/ Sports Package tonight, so I am in need of the same information at this point.

The dealer told me that you cannot put snow tires on the 18" SP wheels b/c they are made for run-flats. Can anyone validate this? I REALLY don't want to buy backup rims along w/ the snow tires.

[budman1]

We had a pretty decent snowfall here a few weeks back (11 inches). Until the roads were plowed decently, I left the new 335i in the garage. When we did get it out, a soft touch on the throttle and DTC made travel possible. I would probably have no reservations driving the car in snow if it had snow tires (it has all season now) with the exception being deep snow.

For the most part, Central IL does not get that much snow in the winter, so that's why we went with the 335i. If it snowed more, I'd be inclined to get an xi version.

[tyymm]

Do you know how to drive in snow? That is a big question. If so, then snow tires should work for you if your staying on traveled roads. You will be able to handle pretty much everything except the blizzard that drops 12" over night. For that, you will need the Jeep (insert other 4x4 here). AWD will definitely help out with the hills, but if your a confident, sure driver, you will be able to handle motst of the same conditions thing in a rwd vehicle. A lot of this depends on your experience with snow, slush, etc. Proper tires (snow, rain, summer, mud, etc.) do help out with this. If you really want the rwd 335i, like i do, then you should accept the fact that you may need to take vacation/snow day, or be confident in the ability of your own driving. I don't want to sound to negative, but the experience of the driver will always play a key role. Just don't put too much confidence in awd because if that mountain trail is covered in ice... your still going to be sitting at the bottom.

[E90Toad]

The dealer told me that you cannot put snow tires on the 18" SP wheels b/c they are made for run-flats. Can anyone validate this? I REALLY don't want to buy backup rims along w/ the snow tires.
1st, there is nothing special about the wheels that would keep regular tires off of them. 2nd, there are 18"RF snow tires, so I'm not sure what they are thinking.:confused

[777ER]

Ok I have experience with cars and the snow here in NY.

1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited AWD - All seasons tires.

That did fine in the snow, did at least a few roundtrips to Vermont including Stowe, Killington, etc ski resorts...

But when it's icy out, it's not much of a help. Mainly I was concerned about the other people driving here in NY because almost all of them are dumb@$$es!
Just one night I worked in a dental office on the building, it started snowing heavy all of a sudden that the office was getting calls from patients to cancel their appointments and they decided to shut the office down since no one is gonna drive in this bad weather and the staff needs to get home...by the time I left there was a few inches of snow on the ground.

As I get on the parkway, I had no problem accelerating but when it went downhill, everyone started braking...I rode the brakes for a lil and 2 cars came close to hitting me from sliding between lanes. I had to swerve lanes twice that night. And I saw a few cars get stranded, some accidents and some idiots sliding all over the place.

I knew my mother would be pissed off if I got into an accident with her jeep since she was in Aruba on vacation!

1997 BMW Z3 roadster, RWD - my father's car. The first year he had it, it wouldn't go anywhere in the driveway after I plowed all the snow out, def a no go.
Installed Blizzacks LM-22 tires on it the next year...then my father and bro took it out and they went everywhere trying to see if it would get stuck or slide. When they came back in one piece, amazing they loved the way it moves in the snow.

It had a 5 speed trans and it was totalled in 2004 when some idiot korean kid tried to make a right turn into a side street from the left lane with my bro in the right lane!
It hit the left side of the Z3 on the driver's door and sent it head on into a telephone pole. The airbags deployed, the engine dropped and shifted backwards, the transmission was still stuck in 3rd gear from the body due to the engine that dropped. The car was a total writeoff. I stripped everything out of that car including aftermarket speakers, woofer and the hood side vents, all the BMW logos and emblems. It still had the LM-22 snow tires on it and it was due for new summer tires that spring.
My bro hurt his thumb from the airbag, and his neck which appears to be ok now.

1999 Camaro Z28, RWD - with Blizzacks WS-50

The car came with Goodyear Eagle RS-A tires which has to be the worst all season tire I ever had. I burnt them up from heavy acceleration and burnouts :D oh yeah they're more $$$ than the summer performance tires I have on it now.

These blizzacks WS-50 snow tires did well, better than expected. Even with the traction control on.
I was able to get up a steep hill where my gf lives, but halfway up the traction control started kicking in more kicking back at the gas pedal and applying rear brakes to cut down on the spin to almost a stop, plus it pulls timing from the engine.

Now stopping on a hill with a RWD isn't a good idea, even with the traction control engaged, it still tries to limit wheelspin. You need a lil slip in order to get moving on a steep hill in the snow.

Turning the traction control off and letting it wheelspin a bit going uphill was the fix. However the rear did drift to the right a lil enough to notice it and the steering wheel needed a bit right countersteer to go uphill in a steady line, this is due to the limited slip posi traction.

There was a silver s-10 pickup truck which was on the same hill spinning it's rear tires going nowhere but rocking side to side. I passed him on the hill in the snow ;)

I used to commute to college, 35 miles each way with it. Twice I got snowed in and made it home with no problems. Mainly highway driving.

The ABS brake on the Z28 is a bosch system and it kicks in too early and it likes to modulate the brakes longer than normal in other cars.

These tires are great, on the same level with the LM-22 but makes more noise at high speed and has more wear. Cost is a lil less.


2000 Caddy Deville, FWD - all season tires

Doing the same test as with the Z28 on the hill, it did okay but not great.
It needed a lil more gas and side to side steering to get it going again on the hill.

The traction control is better in the Deville, but you got to take in account that the car is heavy! IIRC it's about 4,000 lbs!



As out of all of the above;

Driving in the snow is best done with a full gas tank

On a steep hill, the best thing to do is start the entry to the hill carrying speed (not too much that it will cause a loss of directional control!) and continue powering your way up without stopping as possible

Winter tires help you to get moving, they help a lil in braking.

Turning in the snow, turn at a slow speed. Try not to plow much as possible.
Avoid braking at the same time if it needs to come to a stop, it will make it worse by taking longer to stop with the ABS system working with the traction control.

In a FWD or AWD, gassing thru the turn helps in certain suitations rather than braking to a stop.
It's like telling the front wheels to spin into this direction and every lil bit of traction helps.
Better than having the tires angled and locked up and plowing through the snow.
If there was ice below the snow, the front wheels would be turned into the direction you want, and it will be spinning if you were powering it thru the turn while it's plowing at the same time. But it will turn even a lil.

Putting Rain X or kerosene on the windshield and windows will help the rain to sweep away...and the snow from sticking to the windows as you clear it off in order to drive it somewhere if it has been parked outside.

A blanket, flares, and a few snack bars in the trunk in a small bag for emergency is a good idea should you get stuck due to a breakdown in the snow, road shutdowns or impassible conditions ie iced over.

Then there's SUV's out there thinking they can get anywhere they want. Which is not true.
Those without decidated winter tires can move...but they will have a harder time stopping due to more momentum from moving mass and less traction.

They can accelerate but what about braking in the snow?
Gonna shift the trans into reverse and use that braking action?

To drive safe in the snow, packed (un driven or lightly melted enough to make a snowman) or powered snow are best.
Icy patches and nightime are bad...not so bad if it was snowing at night.

Again, all of the above is from my experience with these cars, snow tires and snow driving, a few in the blizzard.


Now come to think of it, my father had his '97 Z3 for 7 years...and now I have a '07 328xi coming next month...the James Bond years :pimpflash