Manual E60 M5 on ebay.

[Khan]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2007-BMW-M5-6-SPEED-MANUAL-ONLY-1-IN-STOCK-ANYWHERE_W0QQitemZ330053570087QQihZ014QQcategoryZ1 33182QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

So much better than those pussy paddles.

[Feuerräder]

needs more smg... The stick doesn't look right in there like it does in the e28 and e34. e39 pulls it off, but this looks too luxurious and technological.

[E36ForLife]

sad thing is its probably already been ragged on :( ....But if I bought an M5 I would defintely order the manual 6 speed.

[abradic]

Who cares if it looks right, it most certainly will feel right. Get a fancier shifter then if you want it to look right.

[CrazyxMidget]

Needs a smaller/cleaner shift knob.. but otherwise that's definitely ftw.

[C P Squared]

I like the salesman's pose, in the background of the first picture, makes him look serial

[DEFKON99]

LMAO! FOr the Pussy Paddles

[promp3]

holy crap! that my bmw dealer! the old guy in the backgraound leaning on the white car is the guy I bought my car from! they are a pretty good dealer, but I would not be suprized id it has been thrashed, though they had 2 black m5's they took a while to sell and where on the floor for a whilewhen they first came out, so its probably nothing to special to them same thing only stick. its also been rumered among my friends that they have a carrea gt at the sister store in ocala that sells porsches. I'll have to stop in and check out that m5 though that int. is pretty gross

[CVGTURBO86]

:drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:

[///dustin]

drool

[Rakshas]

I'd rather have the SMG, the transmission that BMW originally intended for that car.

[M3Bmwcoupe]

F1 uses SMG=Me loving SMG. A 6 speed in that M5 makes it slower than with SMG. Why would you want a manual?

And if you don't like SMG and you haven't driven an SMG car, your response is worthless.

[robisconfusedd]

i've driven my friends 04 m3 dozens of times, it is smg, and i would MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH rather have a true manual than an smg.. no offense, i just love the true feel so much better, the smg is only a very very fancy automatic transmission TO ME, i know everyone on this forum loves their pussy paddles and crap so this is just my opinion... it is amazing technology n all but its just not for me.......

i think that m5 is absolutely perfect, with the exception of the wood trim, thats not my style really on an M car, but man i love that color !!!!


edit: i did not know the 7 speed was faster than the 6 speed..... as far as acceleration goes at least.... im sure the 7speed smg has a higher top speed, but i wouldn't have anywhere to test that and probably wouldn't do that every day or care that it was like 20mph slower

[Don Nguyen]

when did the m5s start having the option of getting it in stick instead of just smg?

[bimmeracer3]

IMHO, That interior combination looks both hideous and out of place.

[an204421]

i've driven my friends 04 m3 dozens of times, it is smg, and i would MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH rather have a true manual than an smg.. no offense, i just love the true feel so much better, the smg is only a very very fancy automatic transmission TO ME, i know everyone on this forum loves their pussy paddles and crap so this is just my opinion... it is amazing technology n all but its just not for me.......

i think that m5 is absolutely perfect, with the exception of the wood trim, thats not my style really on an M car, but man i love that color !!!!


edit: i did not know the 7 speed was faster than the 6 speed..... as far as acceleration goes at least.... im sure the 7speed smg has a higher top speed, but i wouldn't have anywhere to test that and probably wouldn't do that every day or care that it was like 20mph slower

I believe the SMG on the E60 M5 is a new version than what was on the E46. It is supposed to shift a lot faster and it is faster than the 6 speed because it can shift faster than you would ever be able to.
Im with you though I would rather have a manual over any kind of automatic but it saddens me that they got rid of some of the features that you get with the SMG.

[Orion ZyGarian]

Its nice to finally see a 6 speed E60 M5!! I've been checking every M5 and M6 we get on the lot to see if we finally got a manual...but alas, I have been disapointed every time (also to the fact that I've only seen 2 manual E63s...out of ALL of the ones that go in and out of the dealership...and still no 650i hardtop manual..

[m3j0n]

the 6speeed option is available for 07. btw, that color combo is heinous.....how could anyone spend nearly 100k on that shit? although im a huge proponent of 6sp > smg, this new smgIII in the new m5 and m6 is far superior to the smgII in the e46 m3. In an m5 or m6, id probably opt for the smg, but in any car smaller than that, i would take the manual gearbox.

[Orion ZyGarian]

Well Interlagos Blue Metallic is the SHIT and anybody that lives in a place like Florida where its hot like year round would appreciate the light colored interior...

[Juicy Double]

needs more smg... The stick doesn't look right in there like it does in the e28 and e34. e39 pulls it off, but this looks too luxurious and technological.

Are you serious?

You just negatively judged one of the greatest cars ever built because it's interior doesn't look right?? Wait, that's not even accurate... because it's SHIFTER doesn't look right??

Damn, this is a sports car, don't let the doors fool you, and we resort to the above quote?:rolleyes

[Juicy Double]

I believe the SMG on the E60 M5 is a new version than what was on the E46. It is supposed to shift a lot faster and it is faster than the 6 speed because it can shift faster than you would ever be able to.
Im with you though I would rather have a manual over any kind of automatic but it saddens me that they got rid of some of the features that you get with the SMG.

SMG III is an all new transmission designed specifically for the m5 and m6.

[BMVV4Life]

6speed FTW sucks im only $100k short

[Daved]

F1 uses SMG=Me loving SMG. A 6 speed in that M5 makes it slower than with SMG. Why would you want a manual?
Because not everything is about going faster IMO.

I would get a 6 spd E60 M5 if I had the money, just because I like having a clutch pedal, I don't care if it's a little slower.

[sbblowz]

i think the smg in the m5 is 7 speed. thats why the smg would be better than the 6 speed manual. i still like the feeling of a clutch though.

[bimmeracer3]

Are you serious?

You just negatively judged one of the greatest cars ever built because it's interior doesn't look right?? Wait, that's not even accurate... because it's SHIFTER doesn't look right??

Damn, this is a sports car, don't let the doors fool you, and we resort to the above quote?:rolleyes

I agree with the other guy. Although it is a sports car, its a $100K BMW. They should of been able to find a way to clean up the shifter area, especially with that cheap piece of wood which is also always out of place when combined with dove.

[DiScoTeknix]

BMW should have incorperated a clutch paddle on the steering wheel in case the driver wants to over-ride the SMG.

[Feuerräder]

Are you serious?

You just negatively judged one of the greatest cars ever built because it's interior doesn't look right?? Wait, that's not even accurate... because it's SHIFTER doesn't look right??

Damn, this is a sports car, don't let the doors fool you, and we resort to the above quote?:rolleyes

I am serious. Dove, with that wood and that shifter doesn't do it for me. That's not to say that I am negatively judging the car, I'm simply being critical of what was presented in the photographs.

Your closing sentence confuses me. I never said it wasn't a sports car. And what's this now about resorting to my quote?

[bmwaddicted49]

what a beast

[325xi]

And if you don't like SMG and you haven't driven an SMG car, your response is worthless.

I've not only driven an SMG car, I've driven every SMG car - E46 3-series/M3, Z4, E60 550, 650, M5, and M6. The only one that I would even be able to tolerate is the SMG III featured in the the M cars. The E46 and Z4 make you look like a fool pulling away from every stoplight, and the 550/650 do that most of the time. At least if you lift off the gas pedal in the M5/M6 when you pull the paddle, you can make shifts fairly smooth.

Oh, and Interlagos Blue: :thumbup:

[mad4p8ntball]

everyone's makin fun of it, but i bet no one would turn it down if some was about 2 give you one!!!!!

[bimmeracer3]

if someone was to give me $100K for free, i dont think me or most people would mind spending a few $$$ to make the interior better.
replace wood with CF or brushed metal, illmuninated SMG shifter, etc.

[Rakshas]

everyone's makin fun of it, but i bet no one would turn it down if some was about 2 give you one!!!!!

True, but I would never order it that way. The wood is hideous.

[Kelso]

interlagos blue is very hot! tihs is crazy though the only one in stock right now with a manual.
and technically speaking smg is not the same as f1. i dont know all the details but i remember reading that the f1 cars are just sequential, smg is sequential manual. i guess smg is less harsh, and probably slower... i dont kno wif i would choose smg or 6 speed given the choice, and i have driven smg cars.

[David A]

After driving the M5 so regularly - it'd almost be weird to get in the car and have a clutch pedal. The transmission (SMG) they have in there already fits the car so perfectly - more so the engine. With the really rev happy motor and very responsive throttle, it's almost like the manual take away from the whole experience that it gives you...sounds weird saying a sequential gearbox can give you an experience over a manual, eh?

Anyway...my biggest fear is that it would be sloppy and soft - kind of like the E46 manuals and even a few of the E39 M5's that I have driven quite a bit.

Like I said...the transmission is pretty much built around that motor and car...they all just compliment eachother too well not to have that great combination.

Anyway...that's my take on it - I've driven everything from SMG I all the way to lots and lots of SMGIII driving...it's been improved GREATLY...

I get the feeling that a lot of you guys haven't really been around SMGIII when it's really at its best...because it does have quite a bit of character...

That being said...I'm a manual guy - I'd still the get the 6 speed. ;)

[NobleForums]

I said it before, but I still believe it. SMG is easily superior.


6 speed can't turn off DSC, only puts in MDM nanny mode.
Ashtray gone in 6-speed (minor)
Narrow powerband engine works better with more & closer gears
Shift gate is not very tight on 6-speed, according to people who have test driven it. Very long throws.
CDV is standard on 6-speed (clutch delay valve, another killjoy).
400hp mode removed from 6-speed.
HUD can not show gear numbers on 6-speed.

Lower performance, lower value, decontented, and an overall poorer match to the car's character? No thanks.

The only reason I could see for getting the manual is the fun of driving a manual vehicle AND unable to purchase a secondary vehicle. There are plenty of cheaper better handling vehicles, which would be a better match for the manual. Can afford an E60 M5 and can't get a secondary manual sportscar? Meh, there's your problem right there.

[David A]

I had no idea MDM was the only possible T/C selection...that's really sad...:(

[windnsea00]

I had no idea MDM was the only possible T/C selection...that's really sad...:(
Yup and no M button on the steering wheel. To me it's a no brainer to get the SMG in the M5, they spent a lot of time designing it to match the engine's powerband and keep that power on tap.

The 6-spd was an afterthought and only for US markets, interesting enough. Since when do Americans demand a manual, haha. That should be written down in a history book.

[vdubkid]

I probably wouldn't take anything but the SMG in an M5. The gearbox is super tight and if you lift your foot while shifting, it's very smooth too.

Plus, judging from the 545i/6 that my dad had before the M5, the six-speed would suck. The clutch is weird (I don't know how else to describe it), the throws would be really long, and in general would feel really soft, and not enjoyable to drive.

[Goon]

I'll always be a manual guy, but the SMG compliments that particular engine beautifully from what I've heard.

[BavariaMotorist]

Is the SMG like those f1 style shifters in ferraris and lambos? Like you really are shifting the gears manually as opposed to automatically, even though there is no clutch pedal?

[NightShade]

I'd rather have the SMG

[Thats M Life]

definately rather have the SMG..not just because i already have one but because it was built around this car so im sure it pairs better with it than the 6speed...plus that 7th gear just sounds cool lmao. And its a 4k lb boat...no point in a manual

and to the dude thats driven every smg that looks like an idiot pulling away from stoplights..sounds like a personal problem due to not enough seat time or inability to operate the car. I had a problem for maybe the first 2 weeks but I can shift smoothly now and you cant even tell its changing gears...its called letting off the gas just a little just like in a reg manual. Yeah if you drive like an idiot and dont pay attention it will be jerky as all hell but that happens in a manual also. But what do i know..i only drive one every day

[BavariaMotorist]

I said it before, but I still believe it. SMG is easily superior.


6 speed can't turn off DSC, only puts in MDM nanny mode.
Ashtray gone in 6-speed (minor)
Narrow powerband engine works better with more & closer gears
Shift gate is not very tight on 6-speed, according to people who have test driven it. Very long throws.
CDV is standard on 6-speed (clutch delay valve, another killjoy).
400hp mode removed from 6-speed.
HUD can not show gear numbers on 6-speed.

Lower performance, lower value, decontented, and an overall poorer match to the car's character? No thanks.

The only reason I could see for getting the manual is the fun of driving a manual vehicle AND unable to purchase a secondary vehicle. There are plenty of cheaper better handling vehicles, which would be a better match for the manual. Can afford an E60 M5 and can't get a secondary manual sportscar? Meh, there's your problem right there.

If that's the case, why would someone buy a BMW m5? Let's just drive honda accords, and if you want a sports car, then get a secondary vehicle. By your logic, that's what we should be doing.

OFF TOPIC: I love your car!!!!!!!!!!!1

[Juicy Double]

I am serious. Dove, with that wood and that shifter doesn't do it for me. That's not to say that I am negatively judging the car, I'm simply being critical of what was presented in the photographs.

Your closing sentence confuses me. I never said it wasn't a sports car. And what's this now about resorting to my quote?

basically, your criticism was the lamest thing I've ever heard.

I two, am a discriminating enthusiast, but not with something that trivial and subjective. Seriously "I don't like how the shifter looks???" THAT'S what makes smg III better? How about smg's performance?

[Juicy Double]

If that's the case, why would someone buy a BMW m5? Let's just drive honda accords, and if you want a sports car, then get a secondary vehicle. By your logic, that's what we should be doing.

OFF TOPIC: I love your car!!!!!!!!!!!1

That's a biiiig stretch. While some complaints are minor, some are major. 7 close ratio gears is HUGE in a heavy performance car with a peaky engine. Clutch delay valve also makes a difference, and the 400hp mode likely saves fuel. Those are advantages no accord or similar vehicle will ever have. While I seriously appreciate and understand those who want a 6speed, I also acknowledge the advnatges of a 7speed smg. You'll notice that F1 cars also have sequential manual transmissions. Again, not an ''accord''-type feature.

By your logic, nothing makes sense.

[Juicy Double]

Is the SMG like those f1 style shifters in ferraris and lambos? Like you really are shifting the gears manually as opposed to automatically, even though there is no clutch pedal?

there is a clutch, you just don't have to push a pedal down. It is a true manual tranny, just operated by paddles and electronics rather than a stick.

[FirstClass]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2007-BMW-M5-6-SPEED-MANUAL-ONLY-1-IN-STOCK-ANYWHERE_W0QQitemZ330053570087QQihZ014QQcategoryZ1 33182QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

So much better than those pussy paddles.
So much slower than those sweet paddles.

[Landerholm]

Having driven the E60 SMG M5 I'll comment that its leaps ahead of the SMG in the E46 M3. I was very impressed by it and in a car with that much power a human shifting would be a huge bottleneck. Manual transmissions, I feel, are best saved for cars that are pure sports cars, not high HP sedans that drown out a remarkable amount of road noise. 120mph in that car feels like 60. Very little about the new E60 M5 makes you feel like youre going fast, much unlike the E39 M5.....

[BavariaMotorist]

That's a biiiig stretch. While some complaints are minor, some are major. 7 close ratio gears is HUGE in a heavy performance car with a peaky engine. Clutch delay valve also makes a difference, and the 400hp mode likely saves fuel. Those are advantages no accord or similar vehicle will ever have. While I seriously appreciate and understand those who want a 6speed, I also acknowledge the advnatges of a 7speed smg. You'll notice that F1 cars also have sequential manual transmissions. Again, not an ''accord''-type feature.

By your logic, nothing makes sense.

How is that a big stretch? The guy I quoted said basically that if you want a car with a manual, you should get a secondary car for one, and that if you can't afford one, you shouldn't buy an m5.

I am saying that why buy a sports car period then? Why not just have one sports car and one regular commuter? If you can't have a car that is everything you want, let's take a step further. Conceptually it's exactly what he said.

Everything you're saying is about how it compares to an accord, completely not the point I was making.

By your logic, oh wait. You had no logic.

[Thats M Life]

How is that a big stretch? The guy I quoted said basically that if you want a car with a manual, you should get a secondary car for one, and that if you can't afford one, you shouldn't buy an m5.

I am saying that why buy a sports car period then? Why not just have one sports car and one regular commuter? If you can't have a car that is everything you want, let's take a step further. Conceptually it's exactly what he said.

Everything you're saying is about how it compares to an accord, completely not the point I was making.

By your logic, oh wait. You had no logic.

the M5 is not a true sports car though..its a 4klb 4 door boat..an awesome one at that, but still a boat. It just happens to be a fast enough boat to paddle past 90% of other cars.

point they were making is that if you want a manual..get a sports car, ie something light and nimble to fully enjoy a manual

[CLEANM3whipz]

Atleast its rare lol

[NobleForums]

If that's the case, why would someone buy a BMW m5? Let's just drive honda accords, and if you want a sports car, then get a secondary vehicle. By your logic, that's what we should be doing.

OFF TOPIC: I love your car!!!!!!!!!!!1

I agree with you to a point. However, every argument, even very valid ones, become false when taken too far.

Please don't get me wrong. The M5 is a competent all-around touring luxury vehicle with some sporty aspirations. This is why I picked one up for the wife.

However, its character, plus the deficiencies in BMW's manual transmission implementation on this vehicle, make it a poor overall choice for the stick. It's one thing to prefer a stick (I certainly do), but it's another entirely to prefer it in all situations, even those where it's a big disadvantage. I guess it's the difference between a fan and a fanboy.

BTW, thanks, I like the car too. It's loads of fun. Now that my built transmission is here, I can shoot for >600hp. :)

[Juicy Double]

How is that a big stretch? The guy I quoted said basically that if you want a car with a manual, you should get a secondary car for one, and that if you can't afford one, you shouldn't buy an m5.

I am saying that why buy a sports car period then? Why not just have one sports car and one regular commuter? If you can't have a car that is everything you want, let's take a step further. Conceptually it's exactly what he said.

Everything you're saying is about how it compares to an accord, completely not the point I was making.

By your logic, oh wait. You had no logic.

I misread nobleforums' post.

I caught everything except the last point at the bottom, and thought you were questioning his logic based on the smgIII. whoopsie.

[epitome]

Clutch=Fun
SMG=Hauling a few truckloads of a$$

[omfgbats]

I don't understand. I thought SMG is a direct bolt on to a manual transmission. Or at least SMGII, not sure about SMGIII.

Is SMGIII not a bolton to the manual? I'm wondering because it would make more sense if they had 7 speed manual gearbox for the M5.

SMGIII = not DSG (VW) type right? Where there are two clutches I believe?

[NobleForums]

I don't understand. I thought SMG is a direct bolt on to a manual transmission. Or at least SMGII, not sure about SMGIII.

Is SMGIII not a bolton to the manual? I'm wondering because it would make more sense if they had 7 speed manual gearbox for the M5.

SMGIII = not DSG (VW) type right? Where there are two clutches I believe?

SMG III is not.

[MD326]

I don't understand. I thought SMG is a direct bolt on to a manual transmission. Or at least SMGII, not sure about SMGIII.

Is SMGIII not a bolton to the manual? I'm wondering because it would make more sense if they had 7 speed manual gearbox for the M5.

SMGIII = not DSG (VW) type right? Where there are two clutches I believe?

If u took the SMGIII gear box and mated in straight to manual you would be shifting with gears in order like this: (using the shifter)

Regular Manual:
135
246

SMGIII to Regular Manual:
2164
573

It would be crazy.

[bimmeracer3]

SMGIII to Regular Manual:
2164
573

It would be crazy.

huh

[NobleForums]

huh

That's what the shift pattern would look like if you were able to simply mate a manual gearchange to the 7-speed getrag box in the M5.

[Orion ZyGarian]

That's what the shift pattern would look like if you were able to simply mate a manual gearchange to the 7-speed getrag box in the M5.

Yes, its rediculous. I dont even understand completely how they got that pattern..where the hell did they get that idea and how is that relevant to the SMG itself?

[ayton]

all said and done (money not a factor) the only way to get that car in my driveway would be in a 6 speed manual. To tell the truth if I were shopping for one right now I would rather get the regular 5 in manual with goodies before I plunked down any cash for the SMG.

Some of you will think I'm crazy but its my preference...I just enjoy driving manual cars.:)

[MackinE46]

ew white leather and wood trim looks bad. 6 speed FTW though

[NobleForums]

Yes, its rediculous. I dont even understand completely how they got that pattern..where the hell did they get that idea and how is that relevant to the SMG itself?

That box was never designed with a manual gearshift in mind. The SMG doesn't care where everything goes, as long as it's programmed into it.

[Orion ZyGarian]

That box was never designed with a manual gearshift in mind. The SMG doesn't care where everything goes, as long as it's programmed into it.

I understand that...but what I dont understand is WHERE they pulled that pattern out of...their asses?

[MJFX328]

If you could change that wood for some type titanium or aluminum trim.. that would be one of the sexiest interiors around

[MagnumX]

wow, only seen them in the smg not the 6spd this one must be fun:buttrock

[Rakshas]

Yes, its rediculous. I dont even understand completely how they got that pattern..where the hell did they get that idea and how is that relevant to the SMG itself?

The gears are placed in the bellhousing relevant to the force that the gear will be subjected to and the strength of the bellhousing. 1st gear takes the most abuse so it is in the strongest part, 2nd is in the snd srongest, etc etc.

[NobleForums]

I understand that...but what I dont understand is WHERE they pulled that pattern out of...their asses?

1 and 2 are closest to the bearings and strongest parts of the case. If you're designing an SMG gearbox from scratch, this makes the most sense.

http://www.bmwm5.com/articles/stockholm/27.jpg

http://www.getrag.de/454

http://www.getrag.de/media/0000000379.jpg

[timsev]

we've got a manual trans M5 sitting in our showroom about 10 feet away from me right now.

[b00zehounder]

no third pedal = not a real car.

[MJFX328]

no third pedal = not a real car.

so... every new mercedes is not a real car? (dont answer that! :stickoutt)

but really.. who cares.. the SMG can probably shift faster than most of you.. and your girlfriend can drive it in case you get too drunk..

[b00zehounder]

so... every new mercedes is not a real car? (dont answer that! :stickoutt)

but really.. who cares.. the SMG can probably shift faster than most of you.. and your girlfriend can drive it in case you get too drunk..it's still not the same. i stand by what i said.

[NobleForums]

Review says everything as expected, 6 speed sucks as implemented by BMW.

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=31978&d=1166762730

[HOOJ]

21-speed shimano FTW

[persian prince]

thank God for that

[palomino]

And if you don't like SMG and you haven't driven an SMG car, your response is worthless.

agreed.

im convinced that 98% of the SMG haters only hate because it allows the car to be driven like an automatic, which allows for more non-enthusiasts to buy the car. they are just jealous that there are people out there driving their dream car and thinking nothing of it.

the other 2% have more legit reasons for disliking it.

altough, i will say that it is a little less satisfying to shift.

[bineon]

I've driven SMG, I've driven manual. I must say shifting gears is much more fun and rewarding on a manual, but in traffic it as at the very least annoying. My stance on it is this: If you're going to buy an M5 for the speed, get the SMG, but anything lighter than the M5, get stick. M5 isn't exactly a "sports car" so much as a "sports touring sedan", which is why most people who own one have the SMG. I wouldn't buy an M5 for 2 reasons: I want to be able to clutch and shift, and I would want a lighter car.

[///M3Augy]

6speed FTW sucks im only $100k short

Haha, yea me too.

[RedV]

F1 uses SMG=Me loving SMG. A 6 speed in that M5 makes it slower than with SMG. Why would you want a manual?

And if you don't like SMG and you haven't driven an SMG car, your response is worthless.

I've driven dozens of smg bmws and would much rather have a true 6 speed.

[psucelticXI]

IMHO, That interior combination looks both hideous and out of place.

lol yeah i know ... and what's up with this?
Exterior Color: Blue

It's an M... Interlagos Blue Metallic.