Turbo E46 vs R1

[BlackHawkRacing]

Video of a turboed E46 vs R1 friend showed me this and all i thought was DAMN! http://videos.streetfire.net/search/e46+turbo/0/7d8ae497-86f8-47dc-820d-985c007b2877.htm (LINK FIXED)

[nickdrivesm3]

dont work for me :(

[carrrnuttt]

Bad link.

[BlackHawkRacing]

FIXED sry

[Verbatim]

Wow...:eek: some seriously fast forms of transportation there. I love how the M loses from a dig due to the massive spinnage in first...

[angrypancake]

holy shit how fast is that?!?!?!

[CVGTURBO86]

wow if that m3 could hook up the bike would be done

[ltw97m3]

my guess is about 180mph

[Boosted2003]

damn ran out of gearing in the first run. Second run, talk about traction issues.

[shifty711]

damn, thats pretty crazy, considering a 05 r1 runs 9.9s all day long.
anyone know how much power that car is putting down?

[rseven]

wow if that m3 could hook up the bike would be done

No. Unless the M3 has well over 600whp and is capable of running 10's in the quarter, the M3 would lose. In a race between a bike and a car, most drivers are racing the rider and NOT the bike. A good rider can make a world of difference. I agree though, that at speeds over 150mph, the M3 would stand a better chance simply due to wind drag that the bike has to overcome.

[Pipanski]

holy shit how fast is that?!?!?!



200 km/h = 124.274238 mi/h

[333inlinesix]

It's not an M fellas, it's a turbo S54 in a 3er. I've seen some of this guys vids before, and the car is pretty sweet. I wonder how that drivetrain holds up though.

[Isaacus]

It doesn't matter what car it is. Turbos tend to change everything.

Nonetheless, it takes a hell of a lot of power to outrun a bike and rider pushing about a four pounds per hp power to weight ratio, but if you're close, you'll do it when drag comes into play.

To have a chance against that bike, that E46 would have to be pushing out about 700hp. Geared right it'd also blow right through 200mph too, which is well beyond a near stock R1's capabilities.

[BlackHawkRacing]

It's not an M fellas, it's a turbo S54 in a 3er.
I think it is an M3 becuase it says M3 when the greek is scrooling up with info of the cars... never the less crazy car

[FirstClass]

No offense if its someone here, but the M3 driver doesn't have a very good launch technique. (No matter how much power he has if he can't hook up until 3rd gear with race slicks he needs to modulate the throttle better) The bike will smoke the M3 in all likelyhood. The M3 driver really needs to not ride the limiter like that, it can't be good for the engine.

[Thats M Life]

No. Unless the M3 has well over 600whp and is capable of running 10's in the quarter, the M3 would lose. In a race between a bike and a car, most drivers are racing the rider and NOT the bike. A good rider can make a world of difference. I agree though, that at speeds over 150mph, the M3 would stand a better chance simply due to wind drag that the bike has to overcome.

why do people get so defensive when bikes vs cars are brought up? Sorry but DUHHHHHHHH you're racing the rider not the bike..when have you ever seen a bike and a car race themselves? A viper could lose to an accord...obviously due to driver. Wether you are racing a car, bike, jet whatever...you're racing the driver not the machine..congratulations captain obvious. And obviously there's no "standing a better chance" as look at the video and the m3 is pretty far ahead of the bike. Also that bike cant run 10's on the street, mad traction issues for both of them if they try and launch balls to the wall.

[Sniz]

that car was moving faster than 200 km/h.........If BMW speedo's top out at 120mph i'm sorry for all of you.

[M Dizzle]

No. Unless the M3 has well over 600whp and is capable of running 10's in the quarter, the M3 would lose. In a race between a bike and a car, most drivers are racing the rider and NOT the bike. A good rider can make a world of difference. I agree though, that at speeds over 150mph, the M3 would stand a better chance simply due to wind drag that the bike has to overcome.

+1


why do people get so defensive when bikes vs cars are brought up? Sorry but DUHHHHHHHH you're racing the rider not the bike..when have you ever seen a bike and a car race themselves? A viper could lose to an accord...obviously due to driver. Wether you are racing a car, bike, jet whatever...you're racing the driver not the machine..congratulations captain obvious. And obviously there's no "standing a better chance" as look at the video and the m3 is pretty far ahead of the bike. Also that bike cant run 10's on the street, mad traction issues for both of them if they try and launch balls to the wall.

First, that bike can run 10s on street tires w/ a good rider.

Secondly, he wasnt getting defensive, he was stating what alot of people seem to not understand... bikes are MUCH more dependent on the driver than cars.

lets see how off topic we can get.

thats a sick e46.

[TheM3nsah]

wow, boost FTW

[CVGTURBO86]

No. Unless the M3 has well over 600whp and is capable of running 10's in the quarter, the M3 would lose. In a race between a bike and a car, most drivers are racing the rider and NOT the bike. A good rider can make a world of difference. I agree though, that at speeds over 150mph, the M3 would stand a better chance simply due to wind drag that the bike has to overcome.
ok let me rephrase...if the m3 could hook up the "rider" would be done

[AzzMan]

Did no one see where it said something like 680PS?

[sapienti]

Hi, first post on Bimmerforums!


I noticed in the credits, second paragraph, it says it's an M3 and metric speedos on an M3 top out at 300kmh (186mph), his looked buried

also noticed the 680ps thing

[trevordr]

What does the E46 top out at? 180? 195?

[trevordr]

oh
maybe i should actually start reading the threads before i post

[Thats M Life]

+1



First, that bike can run 10s on street tires w/ a good rider.

Secondly, he wasnt getting defensive, he was stating what alot of people seem to not understand... bikes are MUCH more dependent on the driver than cars.

lets see how off topic we can get.

thats a sick e46.

read, i said ON THE STREET..no one cares that it can run 10's @ the track, they're on a street

[mitchelrl]

It's not an ///M3

might as well be though, no dual exhaust, front bumper is non-M

still fast as hell.

Bikes lose their balls at triple digits, they are aerodynamic nightmares.

[rseven]

+1



First, that bike can run 10s on street tires w/ a good rider.

Secondly, he wasnt getting defensive, he was stating what alot of people seem to not understand... bikes are MUCH more dependent on the driver than cars.

lets see how off topic we can get.

thats a sick e46.

Thank you. It's nice to know that atleast some people have some sense.

[rseven]

why do people get so defensive when bikes vs cars are brought up? Sorry but DUHHHHHHHH you're racing the rider not the bike..when have you ever seen a bike and a car race themselves? A viper could lose to an accord...obviously due to driver. Wether you are racing a car, bike, jet whatever...you're racing the driver not the machine..congratulations captain obvious. And obviously there's no "standing a better chance" as look at the video and the m3 is pretty far ahead of the bike. Also that bike cant run 10's on the street, mad traction issues for both of them if they try and launch balls to the wall.

Whoa there E-THUG...Simmer down. Who's being defensive? I'm simply stating facts. First off, there is a huge difference between being able to ride a motorcycle well and driving a car well. It's ALOT harder to be a good rider. I'm willing to bet that you have LITTLE to NO seat time on a bike with significant power. Maybe you should learn to comprehend what you read before you talk. I said "unless it's capable of running 10's". The key word here is "capable". How do you know that the bike can't run 10's on the street or is that just another example of the garbage that comes out of your mouth? :rolleyes

[Isaacus]

read, i said ON THE STREET..no one cares that it can run 10's @ the track, they're on a street

Maybe he thinks they lay down VHT at stoplights these days.

As a motorcyclist for the past three years who's owned four different bikes and rides them all hard, I'll say there's definitely more complex dynamics involved in launching one. A 10 second car will carry the wheels a little on a launch. A 12 second bike can flip over if you launch it wrong. Imagine doing it on a bike that clears the quarter mile sub 10. Having to lean your body over the top of the handlebars to keep the bike on the ground when the light goes green doesn't make a perfect launch any easier.

[VivaM3]

Whoa there E-THUG...Simmer down...How do you know that the bike can't run 10's on the street or is that just another example of the garbage that comes out of your mouth? :rolleyes

:rofl :rofl :rofl



Did no one see where it said something like 680PS?
i'm waiting to see if Brad D. chimes in...he has a pretty good idea of what it takes to take down bikes ranging from 600cc to 1300cc. :eatpop:

[Thats M Life]

Whoa there E-THUG...Simmer down. Who's being defensive? I'm simply stating facts. First off, there is a huge difference between being able to ride a motorcycle well and driving a car well. It's ALOT harder to be a good rider. I'm willing to bet that you have LITTLE to NO seat time on a bike with significant power. Maybe you should learn to comprehend what you read before you talk. I said "unless it's capable of running 10's". The key word here is "capable". How do you know that the bike can't run 10's on the street or is that just another example of the garbage that comes out of your mouth? :rolleyes

if you think that bike can pull off a 10 sec 1/4 mile on a STREET you sir have down syndrome...the conversation should end with that ignorant statement. I agreed that it is harder to ride a bike, hence why there's no way its a 10 sec bike on the street with a normal rider..just gotta think a little and put the ho ho's down. Im just saying there's no freakin point in stating the obvious "well you beat the rider not the bike" as its as obvious as saying well put a professional driver on the bike and a reg driver on the car and it will be a dif story :rolleyes This is what the kill section of this board is reduced to because asshats like you have to chime in to rain on any kind of parade. Heaven forbid a less powered car beat a more powered car...cause that never happens due to driver, same story here so dont get your panties in a knot and just give props where props are due.

[Thats M Life]

Maybe he thinks they lay down VHT at stoplights these days.

As a motorcyclist for the past three years who's owned four different bikes and rides them all hard, I'll say there's definitely more complex dynamics involved in launching one. A 10 second car will carry the wheels a little on a launch. A 12 second bike can flip over if you launch it wrong. Imagine doing it on a bike that clears the quarter mile sub 10. Having to lean your body over the top of the handlebars to keep the bike on the ground when the light goes green doesn't make a perfect launch any easier.

someone is actually intelligent in the kill section...:buttrock

[WaitinToDrag]

:droooool::

[wayne325]

I had trouble seeing what was happening in the video. At the end the
bike destroys the car off the line. This will pretty much always be the
case. A car just isn't going to do the business. At higher speeds the issue
gets cloudier because of gearing and aerodynamics.
I had an R1 and in cool air (50s F) it would pull the front
wheel off the ground at 100 MPH. At lower speeds it is a fight to keep the
front wheel on the ground. In first gear it is positively vicious.

Lets put this into perspective. An R1 weighs 385 lbs. I weigh 160 lbs.
3 gallons of gas is 24 lbs. So there are 150 bhp driving 570 lbs. Thats 3.8
lbs / bhp.
To get the same power/weight ratio an E46 M3 plus driver would be, lets
see, it's 3400 lbs plus driver and gas, say 3600 lbs. That's 950 bhp-ish.

The power/weight argument holds until about 100 MPH. Then it's about
Cx, frontal area, speed, and power. Meaning, the car begins to get the
advantage. Plus the bike's max speed is about 170 MPH, that's all it's
geared for. A 500 bhp car should be good for 200 MPH.

So. If the race is a mile, the car should win. If it's a quarter mile the
bike is going to slay the car all day long.... unless the car is 1000 bhp.

There's a video floating around that shows all this kinda nicely - a fighter
jet vs a porsche 996tt vs a litre sport bike.

Oh and one more thing... the bike in the video, does it have slicks?
If not why is it fair that the car has slicks?

[wayne325]

oh and... riding an R1 it always surprised me how many car drivers just
have not even the slightest clue how fast a litre bike is. You could get
people in mini-vans that wanted to have a go. I think usually they just
wanted to see the bike go, but I'm sure some times they had no idea
what a bike was all about.

[Idealist]

what is the name of the first song

[Thats M Life]

I had trouble seeing what was happening in the video. At the end the
bike destroys the car off the line. This will pretty much always be the
case. A car just isn't going to do the business. At higher speeds the issue
gets cloudier because of gearing and aerodynamics.
I had an R1 and in cool air (50s F) it would pull the front
wheel off the ground at 100 MPH. At lower speeds it is a fight to keep the
front wheel on the ground. In first gear it is positively vicious.

Lets put this into perspective. An R1 weighs 385 lbs. I weigh 160 lbs.
3 gallons of gas is 24 lbs. So there are 150 bhp driving 570 lbs. Thats 3.8
lbs / bhp.
To get the same power/weight ratio an E46 M3 plus driver would be, lets
see, it's 3400 lbs plus driver and gas, say 3600 lbs. That's 950 bhp-ish.

The power/weight argument holds until about 100 MPH. Then it's about
Cx, frontal area, speed, and power. Meaning, the car begins to get the
advantage. Plus the bike's max speed is about 170 MPH, that's all it's
geared for. A 500 bhp car should be good for 200 MPH.

So. If the race is a mile, the car should win. If it's a quarter mile the
bike is going to slay the car all day long.... unless the car is 1000 bhp.

There's a video floating around that shows all this kinda nicely - a fighter
jet vs a porsche 996tt vs a litre sport bike.

Oh and one more thing... the bike in the video, does it have slicks?
If not why is it fair that the car has slicks?

very good/valid points...but doesnt the power/weight ratio comparing two vehicles only work if said vehicles are both N/A and geared simliar? For instance a 500hp N/A car weighing 3200bs would more than likely lose to a 500hp turbo car weighing a few hundred more, due to the fact that on a turbo car the hp is delivered a lot sooner in the power band...all speculation but i wouldnt imagine a Turbo car would need the exact same power/weight ratio as that N/A bike to get the same 1/4 time due to peak hp coming on a lot quicker with a turbo...but im no expert on the situation so im pulling this all out of my arse

[Chea]

wow that was pretty cool the song was tite also

[CVGTURBO86]

oh
maybe i should actually start reading the threads before i post
wow your are finally learning...not to be an ass or anything but the reason you get flamed so much is because you dont read

[rseven]

if you think that bike can pull off a 10 sec 1/4 mile on a STREET you sir have down syndrome...the conversation should end with that ignorant statement. I agreed that it is harder to ride a bike, hence why there's no way its a 10 sec bike on the street with a normal rider..just gotta think a little and put the ho ho's down. Im just saying there's no freakin point in stating the obvious "well you beat the rider not the bike" as its as obvious as saying well put a professional driver on the bike and a reg driver on the car and it will be a dif story :rolleyes This is what the kill section of this board is reduced to because asshats like you have to chime in to rain on any kind of parade. Heaven forbid a less powered car beat a more powered car...cause that never happens due to driver, same story here so dont get your panties in a knot and just give props where props are due.

Once again, SIMMER DOWN E-THUG! Using words such as asshat do nothing but make you look immature. I will repeat myself one more time for you....I said "capable" of running 10's. It's all relative. Let's put it this way, (since you seem to have trouble comprehending the english language) if the bike is "capable" of running 10's on the track but the car is "not capable" of doing the same, the bike is the QUICKER vehicle. Put those same vehicles on the street and the bike is still the quicker vehicle since the are both still dealing with the same environment variables. If you don't understand this simple concept, there's no help for you. Like someone else stated in an earlier post, my original post wasn't about being defensive. I was just trying to clear up any false visions people might have that a car with less than 600whp has a chance against a modern day liter bike, up to 140-150. It just isn't going to happen with a competent rider onboard. I'm done trying to talk sense into you. Carry on tough guy...:rolleyes

[coolcarlski]

First off who makes a turbo charged kit for an S54 motor(E46 M3)?:confused I did'nt know one was out.

[wayne325]

very good/valid points...but doesnt the power/weight ratio comparing two vehicles only work if said vehicles are both N/A and geared simliar? For instance a 500hp N/A car weighing 3200bs would more than likely lose to a 500hp turbo car weighing a few hundred more, due to the fact that on a turbo car the hp is delivered a lot sooner in the power band...all speculation but i wouldnt imagine a Turbo car would need the exact same power/weight ratio as that N/A bike to get the same 1/4 time due to peak hp coming on a lot quicker with a turbo...but im no expert on the situation so im pulling this all out of my arse

So... here's what's happening....

All else being equal, in a race the vehicle is integrating the area under
the torque curve. If you understand integral calculus then you know what
that means. If not..... I'd need a bunch of time to splain it. Then you
multiply that torque by the gear ratio, apply the weight of the car
and the rotational inertia of the wheels and tires to the outer radius of
the tires, and voila - you can calculate what the acceleration will be
given no slip at the rear tires. That would be a good first order
calculation.

You are correct in your assertion that a turbo car given same peak hp
will probably beat out a na car of the same peak power. The reason being
that the torque comes up quicker and the area under the torque
curve is greater for a given deltaRPM, especially in mid range. Peak
hp is only one number, meaning it only applies at one instant in time
for each gear.

Still, launching a litre bike is all about not landing on your arse upside
down. A car has no such problem. If you see the last little bit of
the video you see how badly the bike destroys the car off the line.

[BlackHawkRacing]

WHo the F*&k cares what the bike can/cannot you just need to just chill.... The car is stupid fast... people take things too personal.

[123durbe28]

I want that Car, It is BAAAAD!!!

[Thats M Life]

Once again, SIMMER DOWN E-THUG! Using words such as asshat do nothing but make you look immature. I will repeat myself one more time for you....I said "capable" of running 10's. It's all relative. Let's put it this way, (since you seem to have trouble comprehending the english language) if the bike is "capable" of running 10's on the track but the car is "not capable" of doing the same, the bike is the QUICKER vehicle. Put those same vehicles on the street and the bike is still the quicker vehicle since the are both still dealing with the same environment variables. If you don't understand this simple concept, there's no help for you. Like someone else stated in an earlier post, my original post wasn't about being defensive. I was just trying to clear up any false visions people might have that a car with less than 600whp has a chance against a modern day liter bike, up to 140-150. It just isn't going to happen with a competent rider onboard. I'm done trying to talk sense into you. Carry on tough guy...:rolleyes

680Ps which equals about 670HP and 99.9% of the time people quote it in WHP specially when modded so you're retarded for even bringing up cars with less than 600whp since this one obviously has 670whp...carry on troll..go back to the r6 forums or get a bimmer...why do so many trolls keep popping up lately

[gateguardian]

anyone know greek?

[Brad D.]

:rofl :rofl :rofl



i'm waiting to see if Brad D. chimes in...he has a pretty good idea of what it takes to take down bikes ranging from 600cc to 1300cc. :eatpop:


I won't even begin to comment about how ridiculous of a speed they started from. Bikes have an aerodynamic disadvatage at 120+mph and notice they started at 80+ mph? Notice they didn't show the relationship between the bike and the car?

I don't know, this video doesn't add up in a number of ways. R1's usually take 800 at the wheels to even come close to on a roll until you get above 150mph. I also don't think the BMW was 680 wheel horsepower. I believe they were quoting engine horsepower, which makes this even more difficult to swallow.

I've ran R1's before and my car is lighter than that BMW and they do MUCH better than that.

[rseven]

I won't even begin to comment about how ridiculous of a speed they started from. Bikes have an aerodynamic disadvatage at 120+mph and notice they started at 80+ mph? Notice they didn't show the relationship between the bike and the car?

I don't know, this video doesn't add up in a number of ways. R1's usually take 800 at the wheels to even come close to on a roll until you get above 150mph. I also don't think the BMW was 680 wheel horsepower. I believe they were quoting engine horsepower, which makes this even more difficult to swallow.

I've ran R1's before and my car is lighter than that BMW and they do MUCH better than that.

Good post. :werd:

[tums330]

Such a fast non-M!

[amullo]

I've ran R1's before and my car is lighter than that BMW and they do MUCH better than that.

Thank you!

That was my thinking aswell.. The R1 is extremly fast. Not unbeatable, but you need something special to pull on them if the rider is at all competent

//amullo

[VivaM3]

wow if that m3 could hook up the bike would be done
No. Unless the M3 has well over 600whp and is capable of running 10's in the quarter, the M3 would lose. In a race between a bike and a car, most drivers are racing the rider and NOT the bike. A good rider can make a world of difference. I agree though, that at speeds over 150mph, the M3 would stand a better chance simply due to wind drag that the bike has to overcome.
Im just saying there's no freakin point in stating the obvious "well you beat the rider not the bike" as its as obvious as saying well put a professional driver on the bike and a reg driver on the car and it will be a dif story :rolleyes

...unless "the obvious" is not obvious enough for some people...and he was just pointing that out to someone who needed to hear it. just because you know the obvious doesn't mean everyone else does. in fact most people don't know the obvious because they don't know enough about bikes. even after its been mentioned, i guarantee you someone would leave this thread thinking that all they need to take down an R1 is 700whp. not everyone in here knows bikes and what they're capable of. and even with all the available power/torque/weight/Cd numbers, most people cannot contemplate all those numbers at once and deduce a hypothetical result of an imaginary race between a 700whp e46 and a Yamaha R1. if most people were capable of that, then it wouldn't be necessary to state "the obvious." but the fact remains that it always needs to be stated in threads like this due to most peoples' lack of motorcycle knowledge. so thank you rseven for stating the obvious and getting it out of the way.

[rseven]

...unless "the obvious" is not obvious enough for some people...and he was just pointing that out to someone who needed to hear it. just because you know the obvious doesn't mean everyone else does. in fact most people don't know the obvious because they don't know enough about bikes. if he even after its been mentioned, i guarantee you someone would leave this thread thinking that all they need to take down an R1 is 700whp. not everyone in here knows bikes and what they're capable of. and even with all the available power/torque/weight/Cd numbers, most people cannot contemplate all those numbers at once and deduce a hypothetical result of an imaginary race between a 700whp e46 and a Yamaha R1. if most people were capable of that, then it wouldn't be necessary to state "the obvious." but the fact remains that it always needs to be stated in threads like this due to most peoples' lack of motorcycle knowledge. so thank you rseven for stating the obvious and getting it out of the way.

No, THANK YOU! It's refreshing to know that there are some people here that have some common sense.

[V. Coronet]

It'll take a lot more than 600rwhp to hang with an R1, let alone pull on it. I have some firsthand experience racing R1's and I know what they're capable of with a good rider.

R1's around my area are trapping in the high 130's(ranging from 137-139) at the local 1320'.

I can hang with one in the 951 until about 150 when I start to pull (I have ~720rwhp and my car weighs ~2800 without me and a 1/4 tank). But then again, how often does someone race above 150+mph?

All of the talk going on in this thread is magazine racing. Brad D. seems like he knows what he's talking as he has been there alone with myself. R1's aren't your typical sport bikes. You're going to need a VERY significant amount of HP to hang/pull on one. An average turbo kit isn't going to cut it.



That video is fishy, VERY fishy.

[VivaM3]

R1's around my area are trapping in the high 130's(ranging from 137-139) at the local 1320'.

I can hang with one in the 951 until about 150 when I start to pull (I have ~720rwhp and my car weighs ~2800 without me and a 1/4 tank). But then again, how often does someone race above 150+mph?


That video is fishy, VERY fishy.

thank you for providing us with even more first hand experience. :)


if V. Coronet weighs in at approx. 3000lbs (driver included) and doesn't pull an R1 until 150mph+, then something is indeed fishy about this video. an e46 weighs 3600+ lbs with a driver and full tank, and yet it starts to pull away from the R1 @ approx. 140mph while only producing 700whp? of all possible solutions, the simplest tends to be the correct one...and so it seems that the rider would be at fault in this race, or else the outcome would have been different.

[V. Coronet]

thank you for providing us with even more first hand experience. :)


if V. Coronet weighs in at approx. 3000lbs (driver included) and doesn't pull an R1 until 150mph+, then something is indeed fishy about this video. an e46 weighs 3600+ lbs with a driver and full tank, and yet it starts to pull away from the R1 @ approx. 140mph while only producing 700whp? of all possible solutions, the simplest tends to be the correct one...and so it seems that the rider would be at fault in this race, or else the outcome would have been different.

Honestly, I don't think people realize what it takes (as far as power) to hang with a bike like an R1 (also, the Busa) much less pull on one from low triple digits.

My best time with the 951 is 10.5@136 on drag radials, a completely gutted car, race gas, running my highest boost setting on the track.

This E46 car is trying to show it can pull on an R1 from the low triple digits? Not a chance in hell. Either that isn't an R1 or we're not hearing the entire story.

:bs

[wayne325]

thank you for providing us with even more first hand experience. :)


if V. Coronet weighs in at approx. 3000lbs (driver included) and doesn't pull an R1 until 150mph+, then something is indeed fishy about this video. an e46 weighs 3600+ lbs with a driver and full tank, and yet it starts to pull away from the R1 @ approx. 140mph while only producing 700whp? of all possible solutions, the simplest tends to be the correct one...and so it seems that the rider would be at fault in this race, or else the outcome would have been different.

If the car is starting to pull away at 140 thats BS. The thing
is, by the time the car is at 140, the bike is hundreds of feet ahead. What should
happen is the car sails by the bike when the car is doing, like, 190 and
the bike is at its top speed of around 170 if I remember correctly.

I've utterly destroyed every car that I ever wanted to tangle with on my
R1. My favourite was doing circles around the victim on the freeway.
Pull ahead, switch lanes, slow down and let him pass, switch lanes
back, pass again..... all the while the car is trying as hard as it can.
I've had cars pass me going 60+ MPH on a freeway while I was pulling
onto an onramp with a right turn, and passing the car at the end of the
500 or 600 foot onramp. I don't think a 700 bhp car is going to beat an
R1 on a pull unless the pull starts at 150 or so. A 1000 bhp car, maybe.
THen you have this other little problem with traction.

The video from a roll where the car pulls away, the bike isn't trying.
When the bike goes from a dig and destroys the car, the bike is trying.

As I said before, an R1 will lift the front tire at 100 MPH in 3rd gear if
it's cool out. You have to be careful. An R1 is not for a beginner.
Same for any modern Japanese litre bike like a gixxer etc.

[sumadaz]

If the car is starting to pull away at 140 thats BS. The thing
is, by the time the car is at 140, the bike is hundreds of feet ahead. What should
happen is the car sails by the bike when the car is doing, like, 190 and
the bike is at its top speed of around 170 if I remember correctly.

I've utterly destroyed every car that I ever wanted to tangle with on my
R1. My favourite was doing circles around the victim on the freeway.
Pull ahead, switch lanes, slow down and let him pass, switch lanes
back, pass again..... all the while the car is trying as hard as it can.
I've had cars pass me going 60+ MPH on a freeway while I was pulling
onto an onramp with a right turn, and passing the car at the end of the
500 or 600 foot onramp. I don't think a 700 bhp car is going to beat an
R1 on a pull unless the pull starts at 150 or so. A 1000 bhp car, maybe.
THen you have this other little problem with traction.

The video from a roll where the car pulls away, the bike isn't trying.
When the bike goes from a dig and destroys the car, the bike is trying.

As I said before, an R1 will lift the front tire at 100 MPH in 3rd gear if
it's cool out. You have to be careful. An R1 is not for a beginner.
Same for any modern Japanese litre bike like a gixxer etc.

Sounds like you know what you are talking about based on first hand experience, which in fact is the only way to analyze these types of things. I can't stand the people coming in here that think they know what they're talking about without ever riding a bike let alone sit on one. I think we can all agree that something is fishy about this video. But one thing is clear, that e46 has some power.

[Brad D.]

Let me post my experiences for comparison on running liter+ bikes.

My car-3250 pounds, running 30psi and 112 octane is making in the 810rwhp range.

Me vs. ZX10R from 50 hit-ZX10R puts 3 bike lengths on me at the hit but by 140mph I pass him and proceed to put football fields on him by 190mph.

Me vs.modded ZX14R-ZX14R puts 4 car lengths on me off the hit at 50mph, I stay 4 out until 160mph where I pull by him. By 197mph I have quite a huge distance between him and I.

Notice what happens here. Even the ZX10R was able to put 3 bikes on me off the hit and maintain it until well into the triple digit speeds. In that video the "R1" never even got in front of the car.

Here's mine for comparison, only in this race I was making probably 650rwhp, on my old 67mm turbo setup. Notice how I can't catch the R1 and the "680hp" BMW has no problem whatsoever leaving the bike in the dust.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=wTVyfZyBe-c

[shifty711]

I dont want to start anything. But on your Video, when you were passing the R1, the rider didnt even appear to be tucked to the bike. Sitting up like that would create huge amounts of drag.

But that was a pretty bad ass video, and you guys are fucken crazy.
In the words of Ali G, "Respect"

[Brad D.]

I dont want to start anything. But on your Video, when you were passing the R1, the rider didnt even appear to be tucked to the bike. Sitting up like that would create huge amounts of drag.

But that was a pretty bad ass video, and you guys are fucken crazy.
In the words of Ali G, "Respect"

That's my point exactly. When I was running the R1 and he was tucked in front of me, I couldn't catch him. There wasn't a point in the video where I could actually pull on him until he let off or whatever.

Watch the video, the first time we saw him he was straight up when we passed him. Then he tucked and started running with me.

Let's just be honest here. At 680rwhp (if it is rwhp) that BMW barely has enough power to beat a 06' 750 bike much less a liter bike.

Another example, I was running a Cobra and I was at about 650rwhp, we were both full on the throttle and a ZX9R passed us both like we were standing still. That's an example of how fast modern bikes are.

[TITANIU///M3]

Cool Video!!! :alright That looks exactly like my R1 except the exhaust. Not being biased here because I love all cars and bikes equally, but it didn't look like the guy on the R1 was trying that much to race your supra. ;) But in all seriousness, I'd hate to run into your car on the road now in its current state. Cars these days are putting out some serious whp. Good thing I no longer f around on the street. I'm a track junkie now. And I call BS on the vid from Greece.....that R1 should've pulled harder than that.




Let me post my experiences for comparison on running liter+ bikes.

My car-3250 pounds, running 30psi and 112 octane is making in the 810rwhp range.

Me vs. ZX10R from 50 hit-ZX10R puts 3 bike lengths on me at the hit but by 140mph I pass him and proceed to put football fields on him by 190mph.

Me vs.modded ZX14R-ZX14R puts 4 car lengths on me off the hit at 50mph, I stay 4 out until 160mph where I pull by him. By 197mph I have quite a huge distance between him and I.

Notice what happens here. Even the ZX10R was able to put 3 bikes on me off the hit and maintain it until well into the triple digit speeds. In that video the "R1" never even got in front of the car.

Here's mine for comparison, only in this race I was making probably 650rwhp, on my old 67mm turbo setup. Notice how I can't catch the R1 and the "680hp" BMW has no problem whatsoever leaving the bike in the dust.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=wTVyfZyBe-c

[1997purpleM3]

not bad..

[Armo95]

but it didn't look like the guy on the R1 was trying that much to race your supra. .

Thanks, Captain Obvious!

I think Brad D is well aware of that fact ... did you not read his posts?

He says it once here:


That's my point exactly. When I was running the R1 and he was tucked in front of me, I couldn't catch him. There wasn't a point in the video where I could actually pull on him until he let off or whatever.

.

And then:


. Notice how I can't catch the R1 and the "680hp" BMW has no problem whatsoever leaving the bike in the dust.

[SS84]

So... here's what's happening....

You are correct in your assertion that a turbo car given same peak hp
will probably beat out a na car of the same peak power. The reason being
that the torque comes up quicker and the area under the torque
curve is greater for a given deltaRPM, especially in mid range. Peak
hp is only one number, meaning it only applies at one instant in time
for each gear.



I love the way you actually applied Calc to something fun!

But think about what you stated in the quoted paragraph while you consider the definition of horsepower. then remember Hp cannot be measured it is calculated that is why all torque=HP @ 5250rpm.

Not calling you out but pointing out a flaw in either your wording or your idea of HP/torque.

What you trying to describe is what us "oldtimers" call a properly matched drivetrain. Where you are putting out maximum torque over a given time--Maximizing "usable" horsepower.

[TITANIU///M3]

Relax Mr. Jump on my cock,

If you reread my post, I put a wink smiley there. I'm on Brad D's side.

Maybe that wasn't obvious? Here it is again;)







Thanks, Captain Obvious!

I think Brad D is well aware of that fact ... did you not read his posts?

He says it once here:



And then:

[Hopz]

OK, translation of the scrolling text.

"the car is tuned by Blah blah blah. Says its running 680ps (hp?) at the WHEELS. The bike's mods are air filter, some other thing idk wat it means ("final" something) and no cats.

Says the race started with a roll from 140km/h (any1 wanna convert that?) and ended at the next bridge. The second race was from a start, and the car didn't gain full traction till about 200km/h.

At around 600m the car was catching up to the bike pretty good."



Wat the hell is up with the non-matching wheels? I guess for front brake clearance, but he might as well get matching wheels in the back.

[shifty711]

this thread reminds me of one on a 350z forum where a 440 whp z was beating a r6. I couldnt help but laugh at the idiot for thinking that was possible.

[Hopz]

yaa but 440whp vs 680whp cmon. Did any1 else notice that the BMW was running race tires?

[shifty711]

Hopz dude, Jump on a bike, race some shit. And then you will know what we are all talking about. A bike, is a bike.

[Hopz]

just saw Brad's video. A stock R1 comes with 165whp?! If thats the case this vid. may be fishy.

[shifty711]

no, its modded. They dont have 165 whp stock. It doesnt matter. Even if it was 147 whp like it should. It would still smoke the shit out of that e46 from the greek vid.

[Brad D.]

no, its modded. They dont have 165 whp stock. It doesnt matter. Even if it was 147 whp like it should. It would still smoke the shit out of that e46 from the greek vid.

I agree with this. The R1 in my video was modded pretty good, but even a 147rwhp bike is fast as hell, and a 680rwhp car shouldn't be in front of it until about 150-160mph.

[TITANIU///M3]

Brad D,

I may have missed it but do you know what his list of mods are to have 165rwhp? I did notice he had the Yoshi tri ovals. I am looking to eventually turbo my bike but I haven't found a good kit out there for an 05 R1. But for now a fairly stock R1 is plenty on the track. If you could find out that would be great. PM me if you like.


Thanks!





I agree with this. The R1 in my video was modded pretty good, but even a 147rwhp bike is fast as hell, and a 680rwhp car shouldn't be in front of it until about 150-160mph.

[wayne325]

My R1 was a 2001 model. It was 385 lbs dry and 150 bhp. The newer
ones are easily 165 bhp.

As several have already intimated..... what is it with people who have
never ridden a litre bike thinking they know what it's like to ride a vehicle
that you have to watch the throttle in case you flip it over onto your
ass at 100 MPH ?!?!?!!?.... and then want to post about their non-knowledge ???


SS84 ... I don't understand what you're trying to say. You can measure
torque using a dynamometer and you can measure power by watching
what happens to the vehicle:
force = mass x acceleration;
energy = force x distance
power = energy / time
So you can measure power directly by seeing how quickly a vehicle
has its kinetic energy increased. Admittedly this is not a dyno but it
can be measured.

[wayne325]

I love the way you actually applied Calc to something fun!

But think about what you stated in the quoted paragraph while you consider the definition of horsepower. then remember Hp cannot be measured it is calculated that is why all torque=HP @ 5250rpm.

Not calling you out but pointing out a flaw in either your wording or your idea of HP/torque.

What you trying to describe is what us "oldtimers" call a properly matched drivetrain. Where you are putting out maximum torque over a given time--Maximizing "usable" horsepower.


Hmmmm.. I'm having trouble figuring out what you mean. Torque and
power are related by a constant. You can measure torque directly, but
apply some grade 6 math and you can calculate power.

If there's a flaw it's with my wording. I understand what torque and
power are.... being an EE and all. :-) I'm a sorta-old-timer too. Back
when I was in University, they still had courses where you learned about
motors and transformers and capacitors and things like that. :rolleyes

[wayne325]

OK I guess this thread is all mine now ... hahhaaa

I was thinking more about this. You can actually use a dyno to measure
power directly. If the dyno is an electric generator, you dump the energy
generated into a honking huge resistor... maybe in a water bath or
something that acts like a massive heat sink. Anyhow, if you measure the
power the resistor dissipates (very easy - voltage across the resistor
times the current through the resistor, or just V^2/R, or just I^2xR)
and apply an error factor for the losses in the dyno, then you are
measuring engine power directly.

You can use a coupler between the engine and the generator to measure
the torque on the shaft at the same time.

Keep a log of the above two measurements with a log of the rotational
speed every 10 ms or so (simple nowadays with a computer data
acquisition system) and you have a lot of info about what the engine
is doing.

If you want to get really sexy you measure also intake charge pressure,
exhaust temp, o2 sensor output, spark timing, injector timing, injector
open time, valve lift, valve timing, etc and you could use all that info to
tune your engine.

Which I suppose is exactly what one does when one is an engine tuner.

Computers. They make the world go round.

W.

[274]

Yea, its very intense to ride a bike over 120+ mph.. Riding at 100 will get the heart beat flowing pretty well already... at 150+? Just imagine, wind blowing, you can actually feel your two wheels losing and regaining traction, and that any moment, could very well be your last. :eek:
Now imagine 150 in a car ;) , you could be sipping on a cup of tea.

[274]

damn... I miss riding now, why oh why do I live in LA.. :(

(riding in LA really sucks)

(riding in the country back roads, bliss* not even an ///M can bring :stickoutt )

[shifty711]

damn... I miss riding now, why oh why do I live in LA.. :(

(riding in LA really sucks)

(riding in the country back roads, bliss* not even an ///M can bring :stickoutt )

Ha, Try living in michigan. Cant ride because of the weather.
and my 350z will remain in the garage for the winter.

Its really fun paying for shit you cant use