View Full Version : Big Problem with PFlex LCAB Install - Help
erobinson
09-30-2006, 08:00 PM
I just got finished pressing my new Pflex LCAB's into my "lollipops" and go to put them on the control arms. I bang away at them with a rubber mallet to get them on the control arm ends. I grab my torque wrench and attempt to bolt them back up. BUT, the holes don't align anymore! I'm getting concerned that I was sent the wrong bushings (for a 95 m3 maybe?), but then I thought that 95's have offset bushings and these are centered. Anyone know why these holes are lined up? I've bashed them on the control arm ends pretty well, I don't think they will go on any further. I'll attach pics soon.
Deadphan
09-30-2006, 08:04 PM
Mine where very difficult to align. What I ended up doing was lightly bolting the rear lolypops to the body and then pounding in the inner ball joint. This was easy as I was replacing the control arms at the same time but it may be more work in your situation.
erobinson
09-30-2006, 08:15 PM
Pics...
http://www.robinsoncove.net/veonake/hosted/main/BMW%20M3/LCAB/IMG_1840.JPG
http://www.robinsoncove.net/veonake/hosted/main/BMW%20M3/LCAB/IMG_1841.JPG
http://www.robinsoncove.net/veonake/hosted/main/BMW%20M3/LCAB/IMG_1842.JPG
http://www.robinsoncove.net/veonake/hosted/main/BMW%20M3/LCAB/IMG_1843.JPG
http://www.robinsoncove.net/veonake/hosted/main/BMW%20M3/LCAB/IMG_1844.JPG
http://www.robinsoncove.net/veonake/hosted/main/BMW%20M3/LCAB/IMG_1845.JPG
http://www.robinsoncove.net/veonake/hosted/main/BMW%20M3/LCAB/IMG_1846.JPG
Yea you have to use a jack or something to FORCE them up. I used a jack with a piece of wood on top to jack it up to the holes, then started both bolts til it stayed put. Then I let the jack go, and tightened the bolts down. It won't line up because your suspension is extended the entire way right now, which is not where it's supposed to be. You could probably get it to line up by putting a jack under the strut and compressing the suspension, but I'd just put the jack right on the 'handle' of the lollipop.
erobinson
09-30-2006, 09:18 PM
I tried jacking up the suspension itself to no avail. I'll go try jacking the actual lollipop, but it just seems to me the geometry of the control arm makes it so that jacking it up or down won't matter. Seems to me they need to be pressed another 5mm or so onto the control arm end, but they will not going any further unless I were to cut into the urethane center section to allow it to slide on further. Ugh, brb.
Sadiq
09-30-2006, 09:40 PM
this was by FAR the most difficult part of this install. mine were exactly like that on both sides. i used a long and strong screw driver to force the lollipop into place over one hole, and then threaded the bolt through that hole. then i got the bolt into the other hole. I was not able to torque it very well at the end, so i asked my mechanic to tighten them up with his air wrench while it was on the lift getting a front alignment.
erobinson
09-30-2006, 10:11 PM
omg, FINALLY. Thank you epj3!!! Got it using the jack and wood technique, what a pain, I've been working on this in one way or another since 6 hours ago haha.
erobinson
09-30-2006, 10:14 PM
I would have taken pictures of how to do it with the jack and wood block for people searching for DIYs on this in the future, but I was too happy to have it finally line up to take the time.
erobinson
09-30-2006, 10:16 PM
this was by FAR the most difficult part of this install. mine were exactly like that on both sides. i used a long and strong screw driver to force the lollipop into place over one hole, and then threaded the bolt through that hole. then i got the bolt into the other hole. I was not able to torque it very well at the end, so i asked my mechanic to tighten them up with his air wrench while it was on the lift getting a front alignment.
It's only 34 ft-lbs according to the bentley, shouldn't have to use an air wrench, hm.
It's only 34 ft-lbs according to the bentley, shouldn't have to use an air wrench, hm.
I personally used loctite and a torque wrench. If you didn't use loctite, you may want to take one out, loctite it, put it back on, then do the same with the other and re-torque both. I used to slack on the whole "loctite thing," but now I'm a big advocate of it. :)
Was this your first time doing the control arm busing replacement? If so, the next time you do it will take 1/3 the time.
Stück
09-30-2006, 11:36 PM
The factory does not call for loctite on that fastener.
TQ them to spec, or until they feel good if you don't have a TQ wrench. I have never heard of one backing itself out.
Sadiq
09-30-2006, 11:37 PM
It's only 34 ft-lbs according to the bentley, shouldn't have to use an air wrench, hm.
well the lollipops just didnt want to line up even when the bolts were pretty far in, so i wasnt able to really even get them to 34 ft/lbs i dont think. but that was just me.
The factory does not call for loctite on that fastener.
TQ them to spec, or until they feel good if you don't have a TQ wrench. I have never heard of one backing itself out.
Yea you're right, if the factory doesn't say to use loctite, then DON'T USE LOCTITE. Just like the oil pump nut and the early limited slip units, right Gordo? :rolleyes :lol
Stück
09-30-2006, 11:59 PM
You don't know better then the factory, nor me.
Do not use loctite on that bolt. TQ them to spec, or until they feel good if you don't have a TQ wrench. I have never heard of one backing itself out, and they won't if you've gotten them even remotely tight.
You don't know better then the factory, nor me.
Do not use loctite on that bolt. TQ them to spec, or until they feel good if you don't have a TQ wrench. I have never heard of one backing itself out, and they won't if you've gotten them even remotely tight.
You're a total idiot. Aparently the factory didn't know to loctite the oil pump nut. Aparently the factory didn't know to loctite the bolts that secure the limited slip unit's in the '95 M3's. Aparently bmw didn't know to reinforce the subframe on non-M e36's. They may or may not have used a timing BELT instead of a CHAIN on an interference engine that I'm pretty sure you are familiar with.
Come on Comic book guy, get real. BMW isn't perfect, they have been using shitty shock mounts for 30+ years. There is plenty they didn't do that they should have, which is why we have an aftermarket.
34 ft-lb is not "tight." It is factory spec, and it'll probably be fine. But there is nothing wrong with the extra security of loctite. I know I'd feel better knowing those bolts are going NOWHERE.
Stück
10-01-2006, 12:07 AM
I've reported like 5 of your jackass posts today, and yet still you are here....
Going for 6!
You do whatever you want. Wash your car with loctite if that makes you feel like it won't fall apart.
I have infinately more experience rebuilding, maintaining, and general working on knowledge on these cars then you likely ever will.
There is absolutely no reason to ever use loctite on that bolt, in my 8+ years of experience I have never heard of one of these bolts loosening, with or without loctite.
In the hundreds of cars I've inspected and done work on... again never found a loose one.
Sadiq
10-01-2006, 12:52 AM
You're a total idiot. Aparently the factory didn't know to loctite the oil pump nut. Aparently the factory didn't know to loctite the bolts that secure the limited slip unit's in the '95 M3's. Aparently bmw didn't know to reinforce the subframe on non-M e36's. They may or may not have used a timing BELT instead of a CHAIN on an interference engine that I'm pretty sure you are familiar with.
Come on Comic book guy, get real. BMW isn't perfect, they have been using shitty shock mounts for 30+ years. There is plenty they didn't do that they should have, which is why we have an aftermarket.
34 ft-lb is not "tight." It is factory spec, and it'll probably be fine. But there is nothing wrong with the extra security of loctite. I know I'd feel better knowing those bolts are going NOWHERE.
by your logic, the factory is always wrong .. ?
jayhudson
10-01-2006, 01:00 AM
epj3 and stuck, knock it off. Neutral corners please.
Jay
by your logic, the factory is always wrong .. ?
No, how did you figure I ment that? I'm saying that just because the factory does one thing, does NOT mean it is THE way it should or could be. My logic is low amount of torque on a bolt that mounts a suspension piece that's designed to handle the stresses of steering and braking. Typically the bushing absorbs some vibrations, but now you are installing a stiffer urethane bushing which transmits even more vibrations to the chassis of the car through the bushing carrier.
IMO, it makes sense to loctite those bolts. Since we're talking AFTERMARKET and NON FACTORY parts here, why does it seem out of the ordinary to go a step further than the factory with something like the bolt that mounts that aftermarket piece to the chassis? It's probably not necessary, but it's NOT stupid. Jordan may have experience with cars (which from what I hear wasn't enough for Terry Sayther?? Lets not discuss that, though.)
jayhudson, thanks for the post but if you read the thread, I had helped out the original poster long before gordo chimed in with his typical cynical and generally unhelpful smart-assed posts. I'm sorry if I've offended anyone, and I'll just put him on my ignore list and drop it :-)
erobinson
10-01-2006, 06:37 AM
Whoa... anyway, maybe next time I have the wheels off I'll loctite them just for the heck of it. It's certainly not difficult to remove those bolts. It's just putting the bracket back on once it's off that's a pain. I suppose it can't hurt anything to loctite it, although I don't see why they would come loose. I torqued it to 34 ft-lbs on my craftsmen torque wrench and seeing as how that's about half of what the wheel lug nuts take (without loctite), they'll probably stay put. Oh well, not really necessary to get into an argument over it. Thanks for everyone's help.
EEEEeeee36
10-01-2006, 07:04 AM
Whoa... anyway, maybe next time I have the wheels off I'll loctite them just for the heck of it. It's certainly not difficult to remove those bolts. It's just putting the bracket back on once it's off that's a pain. I suppose it can't hurt anything to loctite it, although I don't see why they would come loose. I torqued it to 34 ft-lbs on my craftsmen torque wrench and seeing as how that's about half of what the wheel lug nuts take (without loctite), they'll probably stay put. Oh well, not really necessary to get into an argument over it. Thanks for everyone's help.
To the OP: Both the Bentley and Wayne Dempsey's 101 Projects books say to push the wheel hub up with a jack when working on your front suspension. Even a mechanic reads the manual before working on a car to familiarize himself with how the engineers originally designed things to go together, and all the tricks that go with putting it BACK together. If you are going to do a lot of DIY stuff on your car (and if you own an E36 and you are not rich you WILL do a lot of DIY stuff to your car!) I suggest getting a Bentley at LEAST, and if you can also afford it get 101 Performance Projects For Your BMW 3-Series (better IMHO, but is written as a supplement to the Bentley).
FYI guys, it also says that any self-locking nuts and/or bolts that have a locking compound on them are not designed to be re-used. If you do want to go the cheap route and not replace the bolts with new ones, using loctite can't hurt.
Oh, one last thing! Make sure you torque those bolts for the LCAB carrier (the "Lollipop") to the chassis with the car on the ground, not just in the air. :thumbup:
franzdom
10-01-2006, 09:56 AM
I've reported like 5 of your jackass posts today, and yet still you are here....
Going for 6!
You do whatever you want. Wash your car with loctite if that makes you feel like it won't fall apart.
I have infinately more experience rebuilding, maintaining, and general working on knowledge on these cars then you likely ever will.
There is absolutely no reason to ever use loctite on that bolt, in my 8+ years of experience I have never heard of one of these bolts loosening, with or without loctite.
In the hundreds of cars I've inspected and done work on... again never found a loose one.
If you're going to brag and insult someone at the same time, at least you could spell infinitely properly :lol :nono :rolleyes
You're a total idiot.
SHOW SOME RESPECT. :nono
I do not condone Stuck's way of handling things 100%, but dammit, resorting to name calling right off the bat shows just how childish you are.
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