What to do in this situation...

[volfman]

Almost crashed on the wet roads today.. wanted to know what I did wrong and what I should have done.

Scenario:

180 degree onramp turn
25 MPH speed limit
Going ~35 MPH
Not raining, but had rained a few hours earlier.

Vehicle:
1996 328i sport
Pirelli P6000 Sports 225/50/16


Here is a progressive drawing of the turn, and the thick blue line is my car and what happened.

http://volfman.keystreams.com/bmw/images/oops-1.gif

http://volfman.keystreams.com/bmw/images/oops-2.gif

http://volfman.keystreams.com/bmw/images/oops-3.gif

http://volfman.keystreams.com/bmw/images/oops-4.gif

http://volfman.keystreams.com/bmw/images/oops-5.gif

http://volfman.keystreams.com/bmw/images/oops-6.gif

So the question is, is this the fault of...

1.) too much speed
2.) shitty wet tire traction
3.) RWD

Its obviously #1, and I should have been careful, but are these tires no good in the wet? Also, even with shitty tires (all seasons, though) my FWD honda never had ANY problems on this turn... *shrug*

Thanks guys... be careful out there!

[Ben Carufel]

Where was that?

[volfman]

Getting onto the 56 West from Carmel Country Rd.

[Filip75]

oversteer?!? how good are you tires? I heard that Pirelli's stick pretty good. Or you might've hydroplaned.

[volfman]

Looks like oversteer... rear end just kept going out and out.. heh... but in the dry I can take that turn at 45 pretty easy... with really no screeching or anything. How are SO-3's in the wet?

[bimmerforce]

how heavy was your trunk ?
full with stuff ?

how many passengers ? where ?

[volfman]

No passengers, trunk is empty. Just the spare.. full tank of gas. no LSD on my car.

[Distinctive]

You say you were doing 35 going into the turn but im sure you werent watching the speedo when you hit the apex. Maybe you gave too much gas coming out of the turn or you were trying to take that U turn with a Rally Drivers cool.

In all cases, driving in the rain is unpredictable. We all know that and sometimes we still test our limits.

Some kid I know from the area just recently tryed being a wiseguy in the rain with his C5 Corvette, next thing I know he jumps the curb and destroys his front and rear bumper, exhaust and radiator. It left on a flatbed.

That first rain's a killer!

[theboogieman]

well you have to look at a few things
1) how tight was the turn, you say 180 degrees but how long of a distance. if you look at it you just made a u-turn at 35 mph.

2) when was the last time it rained in your area. were the roads wet or drying up. if this is the first rain in the area for a decent amount of time the oils and dirt get washed upon to the surfdace of the roads. this will make the roads nice and slick for you.

3) when you talk about your Honda not having any problems in this turn like your bimmer has. your honda wasn't as powerful and it also was FWD. when a car is FWD and you have a problem like this, it won't spinout but it will plow, push , understeer, etc...

[volfman]

THe honda had more HP, less Torque.
200 HP/198 Torque vs my 328's 190/207

But yah i have had it understeer on this turn.. so yah it did have a problem..... Its been raining like this the last 2-3 days, but this is the first rain. turn wasn't quite as tight as the picture shows...

[RicN]

i am more careful when i drive in the wet in my m3 than when i was in my old accord..the m3 with s03 seems nervous in corners on wet road from my experience

[volfman]

That seems to be the way I feel these days... damn scary driving in the rain with the bimmer.

[berserkr]

Simple oversteer....did you get on the gas or let off? If you let off, the rear lightens and you may spin. Wet roads didn't help I'm sure.

BTW S03s are some of the best rain tires available. Dunno about the Pirellis.

[dieselm3]

if you spun only going 10 mphs over the speed limit, the road was very, very slippery or maybe you tires are shot, have you had them for a while? 2 years or more? maybe the rubber is hard and not providing grip?

[Dark Helmet]

sounds like tires...

[CrayzeeM3]

i got so-3s no problems... I even try to lose control sometimes... But rarely does it lose control over my stock continentals

[volfman]

I did let off the gas, maybe that is what happened. It was pretty slippery, because it was late and not many cars had gone down this turn since it stopped raining. My tires are fairly new, they probably have about 10-12k miles on them. I guess I just need to be more careful.

Thanks for the replies, guys.

[BimmerBoy]

Well if that was the first time it rained in a long time, all the oil has surfaced on the pavement, and slipping on that can cause what had happened.

[Pinecone]

1) You carried too much brake into the turn.

2) You applied brake in the turn

3) You let off the gas in the turn

4) You applied too much gas in the turn.

Classic oversteer. The first three are due to weight transfer to the front, unloading the rear tires. The last is simply breaking the tires loose from too much power.