"our cars proform poorley when lowered"

[jaross]

thats what the owner of a small local mostly BMW, but also VW MB and SAAB shop said. He has owned 15 or so E30s and many other BMWs.

he said lowering them is completly pointless, and just makes out cars handle worse.

comments?

[DeadSailor]

i haven o clue...but maybe it has something to do with wheel size too?

like lowering a car that has 15'' rims?

idk, maybe someone with some real imput ill chime in

[orthm]

To some extent, he has a point. The car will be much less stable on rough roads and it will start eating up tires. I think E30s really pick up negative camber as you drop them, especially in the rear. With wide, low profile tires, combined with a lot of neg camber, the contact patch is concentrated mainly on the inside edge of the tire rather then the complete width. This will reduce potential acceleration. The car will also want to tram line more which may annoy some drivers.

[mikee72]

To some extent, he has a point. The car will be much less stable on rough roads and it will start eating up tires. I think E30s really pick up negative camber as you drop them, especially in the rear. With wide, low profile tires, combined with a lot of neg camber, the contact patch is concentrated mainly on the inside edge of the tire rather then the complete width. This will reduce potential acceleration. The car will also want to tram line more which may annoy some drivers.


That's part of it, however, he's probably referring to the issue of messing up the camber curve on the front suspension with our less-than-optimal McPherson strut front suspension. It's great for compactness and strength, but it's inferior to a double wishbone style that keep the wheel at a constant angle through the suspension's full range. Yes, you lower the car's C of G when you lower the car, but in this guy's opinion, you would benefit more from running stiffer spring at stock ride height, I'm assuming. Suspension tuning is all about compromise and isolating each variable. Installing lower but stiffer springs changes too many things at once to know if it's "optimal" for "handling."

[fun2drive]

It all depends upon what he means by performs poorly. If you mean how well it handles then he is wrong but if you mean how well it is able to get over speed bumps then he is right. If you lower the car and do nothing else then you induce negative camber which is what makes your car handle extremely well in cornering. It does also wear the inside of the tires out too. So what if you want great handling you can live with it or put some camber correction plates and bars in and tune what you want. I can state for the record that my dropped e36 325iC handles extremely well but this is more due to inducing the negative camber then lower center of gravity. E30's I have lowered didn't seem to improve that much....

[makenzie71]

most cars with struts suffer from lowering...need shocks and a double wishbones.

[Slick Willi]

yea f-ing right my car has improved DRASTICALLY

you have to buy a full kit tho you cant skip out and only do springs..... ya kno

[bmw3er]

Slamming it to the ground will make you loose performance. A slight drop will lower the center of gravity, stiffen the shocks/springs, and create better handling.

[PirateJake]

my new (well, new to me) '95 325is handles very nicely with the sport package the orginal owners opted to add

i like the feel of it very much

[GotBHP?]

Lowering a car beyond what the suspension was designed for will move roll centers (under ground in the case of e36's), can restrict suspension travel, and can have an effect on things like scrub radius's etc.

A really low and stiff car may give you the impression that its on rails and handles a million times better than stock, but you easily can mess things up to the point where grip is reduced.

[jaross]

yea f-ing right my car has improved DRASTICALLY

you have to buy a full kit tho you cant skip out and only do springs..... ya kno

yea, he was talking about the whole kit.

eh, he is more used to the 80s and before that BMWs so if E30s dont do as well, maybe he shouldnt be talking about my car...

[Daved]

It has to be at the appropriate height, not lower. The recommended height is listed at the groundcontrol website IIRC.

[nzrider]

Yes they may not handle better when lowered, may eat up tyres, and ride a lot harsher etc.
But man do they look NICE dropped on the ground.

"Form before Function?".

[amancuso]

I prefer function :) The cars already look damn nice straight out of the factory.

[slvrbmw328i]

how bad does race springs affect tires?

[Daved]

I prefer function :) The cars already look damn nice straight out of the factory.
As nice as a 4x4 ;)

[GotBHP?]

how bad does race springs affect tires?

Way too general a question for anyone to answer accurately. What brand of springs are you talking about? How long is the spring? Whats the spring rate? Linear or progressive?

What are you talking about how springs affect tires? Alignment has the biggest effect on how tires wear (if wear was even what you were talking about).

[slvrbmw328i]

H&R Race Springs. NZRIDER mentioned that it ate up tires. Just curious.

[mikese36]

I have never thought about lowering mine.Are the verts lower than the coupes and sedans?

[GotBHP?]

H&R Race Springs. NZRIDER mentioned that it ate up tires. Just curious.

IMO they are not stiff enough for how much they lower the car. Get the toe angle aligned correctly and your tires will be fine.

[mikee72]

H&R Race Springs. NZRIDER mentioned that it ate up tires. Just curious.

I'm guessing that it ate tires because it brought the car down to a ride height where the camber curve was horrible, and caused a huge variation in track width under bump. Combine that with the tendancy for people to not run enough damper, and you have a car that scrubbing the tires laterally every time you hit a bump. Then there's camber...

[slvrbmw328i]

GotBHP: IMO they are not stiff enough for how much they lower the car. Get the toe angle aligned correctly and your tires will be fine.
Thanks!

[Robstah]

Makes sense for a daily driver. For anyone else who wants to do auto-x, track, and so on, it really helps. I know you wouldn't be able to compete in any event with stock springs and shocks. Even stock class has options which make things a lot better.

[Jimmie Jazz]

Yup. Gotta make the camber correcton investment when lowering past 1.5 inches, or the tires' inside edges will disappear. :devillook I bought "Adjustable Steel Rear Lower Control Arms" for 179.00, and "Adjustable Street Spring Camber Plates" for 149.99 from bimmerworld.com to get everything back into spec after lowering it. I know it is hard to spend even more.. but spending about 350. now (including shipping) ensures that your investment in tires (continual) retains its maximum value, and retains your contact patch with the pavement.

[onrails318]

well at the risk of sounding like a total jackass after all the preceding technically valid comments...." who cares, my e36 is much sexier with a moderate drop!!"