View Full Version : POWER IS TERTIARY! (don't beat me up)
Personally, I think that it's important that people have a concept of this. For the track, power is 3rd. Behind suspension and brakes, power is 3rd. You'll get faster times around the track if you can brake later, and brake less, to carry more speed through the corners vs building that speed by accelerating out of them more.
My personal rule is be limited by what your car can give, not by what it can take. If you modify your car, modify it so that you're limited by the power you can put out, vs what it can take. When I enter a corner, I'd rather be limited by how much power I can apply in the corner, vs how much power my suspension and brakes can handle.
If you guys disagree with me. Please explain yourself, I'd love to hear it, if i'm wrong, I'll gladly admit that.
I used to modify my cars for power first. cams, chip, intake, exhaust, superchargers, etc, not worrying too much about my brakes and suspension, but now I do, its almost a complete 180 for me.
Just curious what your guyses thoughts on this are.
berserkr
11-10-2002, 11:34 PM
I agree. Suspension and brakes will make you faster.
A high HP car can cover up a lot of driver faults as well (in certain situations). I'd rather learn how to drive a moderately quick car amazaingly well, than a blazing fast car so-so.
That being said, it's hard to ignore the call of power, especially for street cars.
My personal rule is be limited by what your car can give, not by what it can take. If you modify your car, modify it so that you're limited by the power you can put out, vs what it can take. When I enter a corner, I'd rather be limited by how much power I can apply in the corner, vs how much power my suspension and brakes can handle.
YES!!! Finally someone on this board agrees with me. It just takes too little skill to mash the go pedal and blaze by someone because you have 3x their power - while a good suspension and braking system along with the skill to harness it will have you so far ahead of less skilled drivers(and prepared cars) that they won't know what to do.
The biggest upgrade is that water bag behind the wheel - not anything on the car.
Dinan330ic
11-11-2002, 12:43 AM
Rook - WOW, 100% whole-heartedly agree!!!! That's why I had my car modded suspension first. I agree that anyone can mash the pedal, but it takes skill to place the car properly while entering a corner and exiting.
Lopaka
11-11-2002, 01:50 AM
my opinion. If you can't drive fast w/ 50hp, 5000 hp won't do jack. and I agree w/ "stupidfast" HP can cover up bad driving.
so I agree.
Marvelphx
11-11-2002, 02:00 AM
That exact reason is why I saved the supercharger/engine for last.
In the famous words of Pirelli:
Power is NOTHING without control.
I'm glad to see that there is a lot of agreement. I agree that it is hard to ignore the call of power, especially on a street car, but so many people I've come across think that in order to go faster, they need more power, period.
Power can't really coverup bad driving, but it can keep it from having as much of an impact. If you suck around a corner, but can catch up in the straights, you'll produce similar times, but there won't be anyone thinking that you're just as good of a driver :-P
Hammm3
11-11-2002, 11:49 AM
Tires are the most important part. Let the other mods do there job!
ihooklow
11-11-2002, 12:07 PM
I think that BMW agrees with you Rook. How else would you explain the 318ti?
ClubSport332ti
11-11-2002, 12:12 PM
YES, the ti is the best track car, other than the e30 M3
If you guys like the TI, then you must love the M Coupe. Its basically a sportier TI. Same technology all around, just lower, more powerful, with better brakes.
SilverStreak
11-11-2002, 01:57 PM
Well, it depends. Depends on your style of racing and the set up you are going for, etc. I think my car as it is, handles and brakes very well, it just happens to go like stink, too. I think there's a balance there, though.
Coming from Mustangs and Camaros myself, my car still outhandles and brakes the pony cars, and now I have the power too...
Jhodel
11-11-2002, 03:27 PM
I'm in pretty much agreement. I modded with brakes first, then suspension, followed by wheels and race tires. Now, I'm ready for some more horsepower.
Jim
Dave, you're exempt, becuase you don't race on the track. I didn't qualify my statement with a little "for the track" :-p
Kevlar
11-11-2002, 04:19 PM
Speaking of this very thread, I'll throw this in here... At my last track event... I was passed numerous times by a 1990 Acura Integra LS. I believe the car had 120hp vs. my 260hp. The difference was he was on track suspension and big brakes while I was on a lightly modded suspension.
RUddin3
11-11-2002, 04:23 PM
I think the best mod is to make the driver better first, then the rest. Just my $.02.
Drive Safely,
Raza
Ahh yes. Raza hit the nail on the head. The driver is far more important than anything else. I had neglected to mention that!
Dark Helmet
11-11-2002, 06:17 PM
Kev... it had 140hp.... but the point stands.
I tend to agree with Rook 100%... and the Integra was always that kind of car... chasis far more capable than the engine was ever going to give (mine was, at least). the Z3 is the opposite, (my 2.3, in this case) it always had more power than the tires and suspension could handle (brakes were good though, and tires may have solved EVERYTHING). the M Coupe on the other hand is much close to balance, its power is only problematic at or beyond 9/10ths. and even that can be resolved through a change to track-grade pads and tires...
and dave, if you were to take your car onto a road course, you would quickly discover what we are talking about... hell, just let a track-guy give you a ride in a coupe, and you will be a believer.
ihooklow
11-11-2002, 09:50 PM
Originally posted by Kevlar
...the car had 120hp vs. my 260hp. The difference was he was on track suspension and big brakes...
You were also giving him a 1000# (no joke) advantage.
ClubSport332ti
11-11-2002, 09:52 PM
Rook, no prefer the ti. I had several two seater convertables, and I like the space of the ti. I don't really fit in the ///M coupe as well as I do in the ti. But I would rather have an ///M coupe than an ///M3 coupe, just my choice
digitalgm
11-15-2002, 02:40 PM
Power only takes you up to a corner. After that, you rely on the brakes to slow you to entry speed, suspension to keep your apex and then power and suspension again while you are exiting. Simple stuff boys which illustrates that the two most cost effective changes that you will make affecting your cars handling are a RACING SEAT and a RACING HARNESS!
AdamR
SilverStreak
11-15-2002, 05:40 PM
"Dave, you're exempt, becuase you don't race on the track. I didn't qualify my statement with a little "for the track" :-p"
I race on the track, just a different one... :cool:
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