"BMWs are bad news" from an auto salesman today.

[Righteous]

I went to look for an E36 today (no luck). I stopped in at a Volkswagon dealer who was trying to talk me out of buying a BMW at all. This guy spoke in a German accent and was like 50 or something years old. I am 18 and made him look dumb though, I was talking about how the M30 engine could outlast his 1.8t Jetta engines. He went on and on about "If you buy BMW you come back in two years." He also asked about my price range and I said around 6-8k. He then responded with "You will only get junk with that kind of money." My dad was with me which was the worst part and now he is pursuaded that BMW aren't reliable and are poorly built. I was angry. What do I do?

[Viewtiful Sight]

Yeah, you'll have to get used to that alot though. There be lots of haters :stickoutt

Those that can't get one, must oppose them...

[ken_vs_ryu]

Don't try to buy a big mac at burger king.

[Righteous]

Yeah, but I figure that since the guy DRIVES an E34 525 he would have something good to say.

[redline effect]

Most people think that when bmw's break, it will cost a ton of money to fix. Thats only the case when you have to take it to a dealership because you dont know how to do it yourself. I have to agree, most people will hate on bmw's.

If its your first car, I would show your dad the pros about buying the car. Show him that bmw's are heavy cars and you will be driving in something safe and not a tin can if you do ever get into an accident.

p.s VW's are trash.

[ken_vs_ryu]

Yeah, but I figure that since the guy DRIVES an E34 525 he would have something good to say.
Guess where he gets money for that car.

[Righteous]

No, I really don't need my dads aproval at all. I am purchasing it with 100% of my funds. As well as insurance and gas.

[MBe36]

Why dont you show your dad the 200k mile club on this forum. Scroll down to the post about BMW's having the fewqest defects and malfunctions.

[windnsea00]

Stick to private sellers not shady used dealers.

[Itsablurr]

This made me laugh, because I personally know of many more VWs that have problems than bimmers. Take it with a grain of salt too- he is there to sell you on a vw, NOT a bimmer. If you asked him about toyota reliability, he'd find a way to do th same thing.

[thegman1234]

.....p.s VW's are trash.
qft very often. They tend to be the ford of german cars.
If you dont need your fathers approval, just buy a bimmer, he'll eventually see. My parents didn't want me to get my e36, now my father loves it. They're always trying to get me to rid of it though, but whenever I say for what, a Honda, they always say no a newer BMW(to which I always respond but the e36 is the best) I don't want you in junk.
Your dad will come around, it just a takes a little time to see that a BMW really is The Ultimate Driving Machine. He'll be happy you're in a bimmer.

[Elvis T]

Why dont you show your dad the 200k mile club on this forum. Scroll down to the post about BMW's having the fewqest defects and malfunctions.

I've got 244k miles on my 92 325i and all of it's internals are all original.:buttrock

It even looks like the starter and alternator are original. When was the last time you saw a chevy impala make it past 150k without serious rebuilding done to the engine OR tranny if not both, let alone make it another 100k miles without any problems. You pay 50% more for a BMW part, but it will last three times as long. In the long run if you work on it yourself the BMW can be cheaper if you treat it right.....not racing it. But even then, you pay more for the huge amount of engineering that goes into BMW.

[DaveE30]

made him look dumb... My dad was with me which was the worst part and now he is pursuaded that BMW aren't reliable and are poorly built. I was angry. What do I do?

Are you sure YOU made HIM look dumb? :rolleyes

BMWs certainly don't have the reliability record of, say, Toyota, and I've heard MANY stories of relatively new BMWs having minor, nagging issues. However, I've heard even more horror stories about VWs.

Why were you at a VW dealership looking for a $6-8K car? I don't think most large dealerships carry old models, especially not of another make.

[rcM3]

Stick to private sellers not shady used dealers.

+111111

[pioneer416]

i think the guy at the VW dealer is right, i mean the 3 series has only been in car and driver's 10 best list for what 10+yrs now i mean come on.....as much as i sometimes disagree with 40yr olds opinion of cars C/D now what they're talkin about

[ilia]

6-8 grand will buy you a MINT E30.

My dad would constantly spew that "unreliable" garbage at me, but then I actually BOUGHT two BMWs. What do I get? My first one ran 50,000 miles without a damn hitch before it was totalled by an old lady, and this one has 240k miles on it and makes perfect compression. I do timing belts, oil changes, brake pads, and the like. Maintenence costs are reminiscent with those of a civic. And it outlasts both cars my parents own by miles.

[SilverBeam]

LOL

never trust a sales guy. he was trying to sell you a v-dub, he'd say anything to get you into one.

[SeattleBMW325i]

random vw story.

so i work at ikea, and i help people load alot. i was helping people load in a BRAND new jetta, i mean this was like a month after they came out, and i started to reach for one of the doors, i think it was the back passenger side, but it was in the back regardless, one that wouldn't be overused or whatever. and the guy tells me that the door doesn't open because the handles broken. wtf?!

[DaveE30]

6-8 grand will buy you a MINT E30.


True, if I had that much to spend, I'd def get an E30.

however, a lot of younger guys want a newer car and don't appreciate the E30. You have to realize a lot of these cars are older than the kids who should buy them!

[Spargo]

Same thing hapened to me a while ago at a vw dealership comparing the gti with the civic si, on the trip she didn't let me run it hard said hey you can drive it like that when you own it (i was 19, not exactly the right way to sell me this car), and on the way back to the dealership said yeah this also has *emphasis* six airbags, how many does the si have? uh 8... *absolute silence*.

So her manager finally came to me in a furvur with an article from car and driver in hand and pointed out the acceleration in 6th gear from i think 20 or 30 to 60 or 70, ie the time it would take to, in driving gear, merge onto a highway, but I couldn't figure out why you'd even be in top gear at such low speeds in a car with 6 gears. Its a 6 speed half the joy is shifting, they actually made points that helped me secure my decision to get an si.

VWs are very typical for kids to buy for around 10k, especially purchaced by parents, I'd say look at honda, you'll sacrifice performance but gain reliability and you might want to just find out what suits you best. The e36 is definately the best way to go for bmws in that range though seeing as everyone and their mother has one on here which means you can use this site to network and get a lot of help (tons of material available for self-fixes, which is the very same reason i suggest honda, with the huge tuner scene, say your clutch goes, your options will be endless, etc)

So yeah thats a big pill to swallow and a story that doesn't neccisarily apply, but remember your test drives are your best places to learn, and mastering how to get a good test drive is hard, it takes a few tries to understand how to phase out the sales man, and avoid letting them tell you to slow down or not beat the car a bit, this is 8k of your hard earned money, its worth feeling a bit awkard with some guy going WHAT THE HELL?! to avoid buying a car with issues, or that wont suit you when you drive how you really drive.

-Spargo

[Spargo]

Yeah theres more ha ha, i also just remembered, don't forget to think of final cost, my friend for example had a dodge stealth (ie mitsubishi 3000gt) that had some issues out of the gate, ended up getting it i think for 8-9 and putting 2 into it, but in the end with the cost of the car and repairs included he still was sitting on about 300hp for 10-11k, which isn't bad at all, so if a bmw costs a touch more to repair, its not a big deal, because its probably little in the long run compared to the performance it buys.

-Spargo

[DaveE30]

Spargo, when you went to the VW dealership at 19, did you go with your parents? Because if not, I'm kind of shocked that they even let you take it out for a test drive.

[fieldy]

'what do i do?'

Ignore him and buy a BMW anyway, isnt his choice....or, alternatavly, dont buy a BMW if you dont 100% want one....its your car and your choice.

Everyone will tell you to buy one on here, its a BMW forum, go on a VW forum, they'll tell you not too.

I would say buy one because I love BMWs, in fact, i'll tell you to buy mine as it is for sale in the UK, but thats because im selling it so I would say that

[328iSANJ]

'what do i do?'

Ignore him and buy a BMW anyway, isnt his choice....or, alternatavly, dont buy a BMW if you dont 100% want one....its your car and your choice.

Everyone will tell you to buy one on here, its a BMW forum, go on a VW forum, they'll tell you not too.

I would say buy one because I love BMWs, in fact, i'll tell you to buy mine as it is for sale in the UK, but thats because im selling it so I would say that

Just out of interest, what's your mileage/condition and how much you selling for??

[Austin Charles]

Tell your dad to do some research. JD. Power !!! has BMW listed at 7th and Toyota at 8th. last i checked. BMW are not near as bad as the rap that they get.

People who can't own one seem to bash what they can't have. The handling alone makes BMW safer than most cars. With a BMW you can drive out of a situation, where if you were in another car you might end up in the woods or the other lane.

Sit down w/ your dad and take a look at quality that real life people are getting out of their BMW's. You are going to have a few problems w/ an older BMW, but usually you will find that you will have bigger problems w/ any older car. (just up keep)

also MSN auto shows everything you will need to know about the car.

good luck there is a reason they call it " the ultimate driving machine"

[JaredM3]

The car prior to my M3 was an Audi TT, and lets just say the electronics are garbage. The transfer case exploded for no reason at all. It was a bone stock 1.8t 180HP, the only thing it had was exhaust. After the things were fixed and it ran alright for the last 3 or 4 months before i sold it I enjoyed it. Audi/VW does make a pretty solid car, but I had to go back to BMW. ///M POWER

[CdnBimmer]

Like ppl have said throughout this thread, its your money and its your choice. Be a man and make your own decision, because there are ppl out there you would love to make up your mind (right or wrong decisions). What i have found with my own experience with BMW's is that if you keep up with regular maintenance as described in the user manual you will be fine, also if you drive the car like a race car 24/7 expect things to wear or break. If you do plan on getting a bimmer, use the forums and DIYs, they are your best friend, and only go to the stealers if you have exhausted all other methods of repair. If you are looking for a used bimmer, use common sense, have the car you are interested in buying INSPECTED by a qualified mechanic that is approved by bimmerheads, it will save you from a nightmarish ownership. Its sad but true, but alot of bimmers on the used car lots are not ones that should be looked at, go private and preferably one that is owned by a bimmerhead. When i was in the market for a BMW it took me 6months to find the right one, but in the end, i made the right decision and everytime i get in the car its definitely enjoyable.

[328iBursche]

Stick to private sellers not shady used dealers.

Werd! He just wants to make a sale, figures an 18 yr old with a father looking for cars are easy targets for crappy info. Having owned several VW's I can tell you that most of them will not outlast a BMW without major overhauls. After owning 3 VWs I went japanese for the reliability factor. Glad I found BMW finally--thought I couldn't afford it. As with any car, it deopends on how well its been maintained and pampered--and some luck too.:D

[Jetter2]

Jetta's have the worst build quality of all german cars out there.

If you want a german car, buy a MBZ, BMW, or Audi.

The 2.0 VW uses is a 30 year old engine. Its problematic at best. The 1.8t is actually a pretty decent engine, but their turbos like to be rebuilt ~ 120k.

Now, the Passat, is a VERY nice car. Buddy bought a 1.8t 5spd Passat, jet black on black 5spd, very nice car. It dosen't handle like the bimmers, but its a very nice car to drive, quiet, quick, and responsive.

BMW's have gotten better. German cars as whole don't ever have one big thing wrong with them. Instead, they have a few small annoyances with them. They can be costly to maintain, all depends on what model/engine suite you get.

E36 is a good solid platform. They seem to be pretty reliable, and are a good DD.

The E30's with the M20 engine are great. The M20 is bulletproof and will run forever. I'm personally an E30 fan, I love how tossable the car feels, along with its low price ;)

Keep up regular maitnence, don't abuse it, and any car will last you forever. BMW's are pricey namly due to the that roundell on the hood and trunk, along with the "image" that only rich people own them.

BMW's arent the fastest cars on the street, and there are plenty of cars that will give you a run for you're money. But nothing puts a smile on my face like driving my car thru a twisty road with the top down :)

[4500 RPM]

Spargo, when you went to the VW dealership at 19, did you go with your parents? Because if not, I'm kind of shocked that they even let you take it out for a test drive.

Bwahaha...A Nissan dealer let me take home a new Altima 3.5 manual when I was 16, not to mention home was 200 miles away. Hell, I didn't even end up buying it!

I've probably had 30 test drives, now being almost 20. A few weeks ago I test-drove a used Audi S4. It's all about being serious, Car and Driver did an article about it a few months ago.

[jamin325i]

let the buyer beware. the buyer must do his own research.
a car salesman can not be trusted, period. if they do know something, they will still push you to their product.
this situation has nothing to do with bmw.

[Elvis T]

One thing to focus on is how someone will belittle the other kind of car. If you're buying a VW the VW sales guy wont tell you about the inferior electronics, so go to a honda guy and he'll tell you all of the reasons NOT to buy a VW. Use their knowledge of other cars downfalls to your advantage.

But also keep in mind the validity of their statements. Some will have the worst stories you've heard and will remind you of them, just to try to stick you with one of their cars.

[Elvis T]

I forgot to mention that my Corrado....it's electrical wiring....:eyecrazy

[M3motorsport]

Ask the guy with the german accent about electrical and ABS issued in Passat. Also about cracked plastic impellers on 1.8 engines. BMW had this issue 10 year ago and VW has it now, do they learn from some ones mistakes… I guess not…

[DaveE30]

Bwahaha...A Nissan dealer let me take home a new Altima 3.5 manual when I was 16, not to mention home was 200 miles away. Hell, I didn't even end up buying it!


Nissan has those "take home and try it" testdrives? HOw did you take home the car and not buy it?

[Jetter2]

They have the title and the car is insured.

Chevy had that 24hr test drive back in the day too like 2 years ago?

Owning a car=own title. The car is a worthless hunk of shit without the title.

[fieldy]

Just out of interest, what's your mileage/condition and how much you selling for??
Full service History with new one, Full MOT, Full tax, TWO sets of alloys, standard e36 alloys with good tyres, and my 18x225 alloys purchased brand new at xmas with awesome tread, 120,000miles, engine never skips a beat...never broke down minus one time where battery needed replacing, did this that afternoon.
Is on auto trader and do need a quick sale as I have moved to London and cant afford to park it at my flat... £1600 ono

'maybe shouldve posted that on classifieds, but was just answering a question' :P

[fm.illuminatus]

I went to look for an E36 today (no luck). I stopped in at a Volkswagon dealer who was trying to talk me out of buying a BMW at all. This guy spoke in a German accent and was like 50 or something years old. I am 18 and made him look dumb though, I was talking about how the M30 engine could outlast his 1.8t Jetta engines. He went on and on about "If you buy BMW you come back in two years." He also asked about my price range and I said around 6-8k. He then responded with "You will only get junk with that kind of money." My dad was with me which was the worst part and now he is pursuaded that BMW aren't reliable and are poorly built. I was angry. What do I do?

VW salespeople are aways rude, arrogant, obnoxious, and uninformed, in my experience. See if you can get your dad in contact with one of the older members on this board. I'm sure someone here will be willing to talk some sense into him. Also, point out nicely to you dad (if he can't figure this out on his own) that the VW salesperson is biased against BMW's because he didn't want you to buy one (he wanted you to buy a VW instead).

And as a general rule, car salespeople are not your friend. For the most part they are clueless and uneducated, and usually get vindictive when you don't like their product. They are under constant pressure from their managers to sell cars they don't know anything about, to people that often don't even want to buy anything. I know, I used to be a car salesperson. A nice, friendly, informative car salesperson is an expection, not the rule.

[angrypancake]

I went to look for an E36 today (no luck). I stopped in at a Volkswagon dealer who was trying to talk me out of buying a BMW at all. This guy spoke in a German accent and was like 50 or something years old. I am 18 and made him look dumb though, I was talking about how the M30 engine could outlast his 1.8t Jetta engines. He went on and on about "If you buy BMW you come back in two years." He also asked about my price range and I said around 6-8k. He then responded with "You will only get junk with that kind of money." My dad was with me which was the worst part and now he is pursuaded that BMW aren't reliable and are poorly built. I was angry. What do I do?


if you know a lot about the m30 engine and its reliability, pick up a 535iM if you can, 6-8k would get you a very nice example of one. theres one on the bay right now for 8k buy it now, black/black with 56650 miles. there are a few good examples around... e34 = sedan with the shortest stopping distance for its class, +eleventybillion on that. not a ton of airbags but so many people have been in crashes with them and walked away. myself personally, e34 + tree = broken collarbone and a headache, no scratches. try that in any other car....

not to dissuade you from an e36 though, if thats what you want

[4500 RPM]

Nissan has those "take home and try it" testdrives? HOw did you take home the car and not buy it?

Long story...I was a spoiled brat and had a brand new 2003 Xterra. Six months after I got it I didn't like it, so I wanted to trade it in. I was going to get hosed on any deal I did; I was fresh meat to a car dealer. I'm sure the salesman was sure that I was going to buy the car, but I ended up backing out. Two weeks later I drive down to Jacksonville, FL and buy a 2002 VW GTI 1.8t on the spot. Worst and best car deal I've ever done. :)

This wasn't a 24 hour test drive...