AA Twinscrew (I know,AGAIN??!!)

[chisau]

Sorry to beat a dead horse. I really think that AA stg 1 would work perfect for my daily driver project that I am putting together. Unfortunately unlike Eurosport who utilized Neil Simon and Bob Tunnel to 'help' introduce their kit by flogging it on the track and publicly reporting back to the forums, AA has not yet done this for their potential customers. All that we have seen has been Stimpee's car running more boost than we can run w/ their off the shelf product.

My question is, has anyone not tied to the production of this kit been in,driven, or installed a stage 1 or two kit? From what I have heard, these have been on the shelf ready to ship. My two options have been VF Engineering stg 1 or the stage 1 Twinscrew (I'm not yet a boost junky so I think Stg 1 would be more than sufficient and I likt the intro price point.)

Any help/info would be appreciated. I'm trying to get in on the intro. pricing. We need a track junky to go out there and beat one of their cars up for us like Neil did for ES!

[carcrazed4life]

Unlike Eurosport, AA does most of their testing on in house vehicles. Since this is a product in conjunction with Hurtig/Stimpee/Steve he also has it on his car as a tester and developer on the setup.

Ask Karl if he Beta tests any kits for people. They only do so when there is no car available...

I only know of one setup AA has that has been known to have a lil issue (less then 10%) with the smaller Rotrex SCs.

I say have trust in AA. Not to knock Eurosport, just that fair is fair.

[chisau]

ZeroG,

Clear your pm box...

[chisau]

Carcrazed,

I am with you totally on trusting AA. People have bashed them from the original e36 turbos, Rotrex Superchargers on both the E36 and the E46 M (Remember all the KABOOM threads when it came to the E46 M??:rolleyes even other aftermarket tuning companies went as far to say that they 'threw their original Rotrex kits in the garbage because blah, blah blah now there are cars out there making 500+ HP... AA has proven to all the haters what quality engineering is all about...)

My point of view is that these cars are getting old. VF Engineering has come out with a kit which in my opinion is competetively priced right in line with the value of these cars; $4500 for 350/295 torque. For the extra $1400 it would take for me to get into the Twinscrew( $5900 intro pricing) am I going to be blown away by the difference? I have not yet able to get down to AA to take a ride in one, so I am relying on others who may have experienced it.



Unlike Eurosport, AA does most of their testing on in house vehicles. Since this is a product in conjunction with Hurtig/Stimpee/Steve he also has it on his car as a tester and developer on the setup.

Ask Karl if he Beta tests any kits for people. They only do so when there is no car available...

I only know of one setup AA has that has been known to have a lil issue (less then 10%) with the smaller Rotrex SCs.

I say have trust in AA. Not to knock Eurosport, just that fair is fair.

[stimpee]

Mike,

I can not attest to road course type track testing of our kit, as we have not yet done that. I will be doing it this summer, and am very very confident that all will be fine. The moving parts of the kit are essentially the same (compressor, IC pump, etc) and are proven components. I can personally attest to significant street based flogging of the kit/car, and drag strip and dyno abuse, as well as significant abuse by magazine testers! However, obviously I am not an impartial observer!

Kits are beginning to ship as we speak, and there has been one install done at Active within the last week or so. Not sure about others, so you would have to check with them on that.

It will probably be several weeks or so before it is "easy" to find people with testimonials, as we were waiting for some last minute parts to arrive.

However, if you ask anyone with a centrifugal supercharged car that has driven or ridden in a twin screwed car "is the difference that noticable", I can all but guarantee that the answer will be "yes". It IS that much better, especially in "normal" street driving. Go take a ride on one!

Steve

[nodsc]

i too am considering the kits from vf and aa. I am convinced the power delivery will be night and day between the 2 kits. But i hear vf is trying to get smog exemption so that is a definate plus. I also like the quiet nature of the v2sq. Plus when their stage 2 depending on the price it might not be too far off the normal price of the aa stage 1 ($6500). Plus you cant argue with GIAC programming for california run cars like mine. Decisions... Decisions...

What runs hotter? A centrifigal or a twin screw?

[nodsc]

i will say this though... i have heard many centrifugal car owners say that their car doesnt "feel" as fast as it should considering how much power its putting down on the dyno since it doesnt build boost until high rpms.

IM sure the twin screw feels much faster because of the way it delivers power. Id like to see a stage 1 twin screw on 91 octane compared to the vf stage 1.

[Jim M3]

I have been in the AA twin screw and stage 1 TS to stage 1 VF there is no comparison the AA will blow it away. You will feel a major power difference. If you want to build a very high power car though the CF is a great platform to start from, although I am not sure the VF platform is the best CF platform to start from. You also have to consider charge cooling, the VF kit doesn't come with charge cooling in stage 1.

[stimpee]

i will say this though... i have heard many centrifugal car owners say that their car doesnt "feel" as fast as it should considering how much power its putting down on the dyno since it doesnt build boost until high rpms.

IM sure the twin screw feels much faster because of the way it delivers power. Id like to see a stage 1 twin screw on 91 octane compared to the vf stage 1.

When you say you would like to "see" a stage I TS compared to VF, what exactly do you mean? If you look at just a dyno curve, the peak hp numbers will likely be close, however again, that will not begin to tell the story relative to the reality of both systems.

As for which will run hotter, who knows? The TS is at least equally efficient, if not more efficient, at the same boost level as the CF. However, the TS builds a lot more boost in the midrange, therefore in that area more boost = more power = more heat. The fact that the TS manifolds are aluminum probably does not help that situation either.

That is one of the reasons that the addition of a water injection setup is still not a bad idea on any non-intercooled setup.

Also, I can tell you that based on my experience, and exposure to some Vortech powered cars, the TS is quieter in pretty much any operating condition, and at idle by a nearly infinite margin over the Vortech. The only place that MAY not be the case (not sure) is at WOT, but even then, the rest of the noises of fury all but overwhelm the sound of the compressor....

[Jean-Claude]

I am currently in the possition Jim is describing. I have a Dinan cf kit. I have cams on the way that will work with either kits. But due to a great deal I found on a aftercooler I am going to push for 420+whp on my current kit. Ideally I would like a mid(or better)-12 second car that is also good for autoX and DE. Worse case scenario I will part the kit out and go TS. I imagine I will be happy with 400+whp for quite some time though.

Go with either one. For one reason or another you will be happy with either one you get. The VF will save you money and the TS will produce more tq lower(and higher :rofl). You win either way.

[nodsc]

When you say you would like to "see" a stage I TS compared to VF, what exactly do you mean? If you look at just a dyno curve, the peak hp numbers will likely be close, however again, that will not begin to tell the story relative to the reality of both systems.

As for which will run hotter, who knows? The TS is at least equally efficient, if not more efficient, at the same boost level as the CF. However, the TS builds a lot more boost in the midrange, therefore in that area more boost = more power = more heat. The fact that the TS manifolds are aluminum probably does not help that situation either.

That is one of the reasons that the addition of a water injection setup is still not a bad idea on any non-intercooled setup.

Also, I can tell you that based on my experience, and exposure to some Vortech powered cars, the TS is quieter in pretty much any operating condition, and at idle by a nearly infinite margin over the Vortech. The only place that MAY not be the case (not sure) is at WOT, but even then, the rest of the noises of fury all but overwhelm the sound of the compressor....

makes sense. When i say "see" i mean look at different the power curves (how they build power) and what kind of power they make ar certain speeds. Like instead of doing HP/TQ vs RPM on the dyno do HP/TQ vs. MPH. Does that make sense.

About the sound... thats good to know that the TS runs so quietly. Thanks for everones input..

[///M3 CRAZY]

$4500 for 350/295 torque. For the extra $1400 it would take for me to get into the Twinscrew( $5900 intro pricing) am I going to be blown away by the difference? I have not yet able to get down to AA to take a ride in one, so I am relying on others who may have experienced it.


those #'s are at the crank. you will make somewhere shy of if not just touching 300 hp at the wheels and 250 tq. while that is impressive for only 6psi, the twin screw is a better bang for your buck. the twin screw gives you your torque earlier. they are different kits with different power dilivery. where the CF blower will build expoonentially and will feel like a sling shot. where the twin screw is mor elike a light switch. it will be power on, and steady power. sorta feel like a NA V8.

i think the twin screw is great for those interested in that style power delivery with the output available. i still think there is more room to grow with the vortech though.

[stimpee]

...i still think there is more room to grow with the vortech though.


I disagree, and you will be proven wrong in a lot less time than it took for the Vortech guys to achieve 400-450 whp...

:D

Steve

[nodsc]

steve do you guys have any dynos of your stage one and your stage 2 together? That would be intersting to see. Are you guys running into any heatsoak problems. ie... what kind of variances are you seeing in different dyno runs on the same car? Does that make sense?

[///M3 CRAZY]

I disagree, and you will be proven wrong in a lot less time than it took for the Vortech guys to achieve 400-450 whp...

:D

Steve


i would love to see you making larger #'s! it would truely be great to progress but i also think that the cf systems "topping" out at the 450 mark is BS. there is a lot more room to grow with the CF blower as well. i feel that people have just not tried to pioneer as much for what ever reason. it will change soon! everyone makes the cf blower to sound like a dinasaur (sp?) when it simply is not it is still a great option to make power, there just has to be a whole new set of "nut jobs" to try it out.

[stimpee]

I am simply disputing your statement that the centrif has more potential. It does not. It may have equal peak hp potential, but it does not have more potential, and it will require a compressor change to get much more than 450 whp to do it, and that compressor change will not be a DIRECT bolt on.

I can put a compressor on our kit that will support well over 800 hp, as a DIRECT bolt on. Nothing else fundamental to change (in the kit) other than injectors and tuning. The intercooler may start being a bit of a bottleneck somewhere over the 500whp mark, but it will not be a step change or anything.

As for the level I, I do not have any dynos or anything to provide yet, as we are still finalizing boost level and tuning. The information should be available soon. Karl is testing it on his car right now. No signs of any heat soak problems or anything yet, but I am certain that it will be possible to heat soak it without the intercooler, just no physical way around that. It will just depend on how you plan to use it. On the street, I don't really think you will notice any problems.

On the Level II intercooled kits, we drop less than 10 peak hp on repeated (and by repeated, I mean 15-20 pulls one after another) on the dyno, as long as there is some airflow at the front of the car.

Steve

[chisau]

:buttrock

Spoke to Jean today... Placing order next week...:redspot Thanks for your dedication Steve!


I am simply disputing your statement that the centrif has more potential. It does not. It may have equal peak hp potential, but it does not have more potential, and it will require a compressor change to get much more than 450 whp to do it, and that compressor change will not be a DIRECT bolt on.

I can put a compressor on our kit that will support well over 800 hp, as a DIRECT bolt on. Nothing else fundamental to change (in the kit) other than injectors and tuning. The intercooler may start being a bit of a bottleneck somewhere over the 500whp mark, but it will not be a step change or anything.

As for the level I, I do not have any dynos or anything to provide yet, as we are still finalizing boost level and tuning. The information should be available soon. Karl is testing it on his car right now. No signs of any heat soak problems or anything yet, but I am certain that it will be possible to heat soak it without the intercooler, just no physical way around that. It will just depend on how you plan to use it. On the street, I don't really think you will notice any problems.

On the Level II intercooled kits, we drop less than 10 peak hp on repeated (and by repeated, I mean 15-20 pulls one after another) on the dyno, as long as there is some airflow at the front of the car.

Steve

[nodsc]

cool... yeah i do take my car out on a road course from time to time so i think it will be a necessity to do stage 2 if i go the AA route

[stimpee]

Just realize that the heat soak will be no better with the centrif on the track without water injection or aftercooler.

Thanks Chisau!!!

Steve

[BoostFed325]

Trust AA and Karl. They have always been good to me and they have always stood behind their products. They cost more but you pay for what you get. It is that simple.

[nodsc]

Just realize that the heat soak will be no better with the centrif on the track without water injection or aftercooler.

Thanks Chisau!!!

Steve

oh in know... jsut stating that if I go the AA route its all or nothin :)

[chisau]

No worries. I just got the AA exhaust and I will be moving up to stage 2 eventually. Besides, its not a daily driver nor is it a track car. Just my 'toy' to play with the Evos/350z etc that some of my friends have. Us 30+ guys need to have fun too!


Just realize that the heat soak will be no better with the centrif on the track without water injection or aftercooler.

Thanks Chisau!!!

Steve

[jmc]

Are there any pics of the production kit available. I am curious what the non intercooled manifold looks like. I thought the AA site only had prototype pics.

JMC

[SLEEK.STATIK]

thinkin' of goin the aa route with the twin screw. just would like to know if i would need to rebuild the engine (has 106k on the odo) if i were to try to reach around 400-450hp and what other mods i could do to reach that ammount?

[stimpee]

The manifold for the non intercooled kit is identical to the intercooled manifold. It just does not have the intercooler cores and end cap water manifolds installed.

I don't know if we have more pictures available other than what is on the site and the picture in Roundel. There may be a picture or 2 in Bimmer this month, I have not seen it yet!

I probably have a few around, just have to dig em up, but they are not absolutely final "production", as there were a few fine tunings from what is on my car!

Steve

[stimpee]

thinkin' of goin the aa route with the twin screw. just would like to know if i would need to rebuild the engine (has 106k on the odo) if i were to try to reach around 400-450hp and what other mods i could do to reach that ammount?

At the crank or at the wheels?

My car has 108k. I put the twin screw on this car at 103k. No mods other than the catback, and of course a clutch.

If you want 400-450 at the crank, you will get that directly with the Level II. If you want that at the wheels, there is a bit more work to be done, and you will likely need to drop compression a bit, add some boost, and the appropriate tuning. Not sure if we will be offering this type of setup or not, but the basic components can handle it with no problem.

[m3j0n]

i drove the AA stg 2 car. 1st and 2nd make me want to put an order down immediately. 3rd and 4th still move, but i think at that point, the turbo cars are a bit better... Im still on the fence as to what route im going. As far as reliability goes, i have 100% confidence in AA/Stimpee's product. Im sure that car is really driven hard on a daily basis and it runs flawlessly.

I would be really interested if you guys come out with the 2.4 L kit. Right now, im thinking that the stg 2 with cams and maybe a small shot of spray would give me the power in 3rd and 4th that i would want. PLEASAE PLEASE COME OUT WITH THE 2.4L kit :). Again, props to stimpee and AA for making a fantastic product!

[stimpee]

No need for a 2.4. The 2.2 opcon or the 2.3 Whipple/Lysholm would be more than plenty for any reasonable output level (or even unreasonable), and bolt directly on.

Also, don't confuse the "feel" with actual speed. What are the turbo cars you are comparing to trapping in the 1/4? The twin screw does not FEEL as fast as it IS. That is because humans can not perceive acceleration, they can feel/perceive JERK which is the time rate of change of acceleration. Turbos give you lots of JERK as the torque increases in the midrange. Centrifs give you JERK at the top end when the boost builds. The twin screw has "INSTANT JERK (tm)" that gets you instantly when you hit the throttle, but then the acceleration is essentially constant. Just provides a different feel.

It is okay, however to want more, some of us have issues like that!

You just would need to talk Karl into doing the software!

Maybe I need to blow my engine up so that I can build one and "go large"!

:D

[Serpent7]

Ok, this is all great for you 3'series guys, but what about us 5'series e39 folks, more important us M5 guys. we want boost to! Im a little new to this site so hang in there with me, but I hear AA makes some supercharger kits for e39 M5. What is currently avalible, and how can I get more information on the item(s)???

[m3j0n]

hahah thanks for the quick reply. your first name is steve, right? i thought the next size up from the currently used 1.7 was the 2.4. I didnt know they made a 2.2 or a 2.3. After talking to phil, mike, barry, and karl, i think its best for me to do the TS for my car. I just dont want to get "screwed" with the 1.7 if there are any plans for a larger blower. I want to make this car a beast! Although i think that the TS stg 2 would make me a VERY VERY happy camper, I want that bit extra to hand it to all the REALLY powerful cars here in my area ;).

[stimpee]

Well, there will be "more" available with the 1.7 as time goes on, whether from us, or from other sources. No doubt people will not be able to leave well enough alone.

Also, to upgrade the compressor itself down the road is not as huge an expense as you might imagine, so that is always an option.

Opcon makes a 1.7, 2.0, and 2.2 in the same basic size family, with just the length of the compressor increasing. Whipple who now makes their own compressors, and the Lysholm compressor from sweden, come in 1.6 and 2.3L sizes.



Steve

[SLEEK.STATIK]

At the crank or at the wheels?

My car has 108k. I put the twin screw on this car at 103k. No mods other than the catback, and of course a clutch.

If you want 400-450 at the crank, you will get that directly with the Level II. If you want that at the wheels, there is a bit more work to be done, and you will likely need to drop compression a bit, add some boost, and the appropriate tuning. Not sure if we will be offering this type of setup or not, but the basic components can handle it with no problem.
yeah i want it to the wheels! :devillook lol. ah ok sweet. yeah i would be doing a cam definitely and all the driveline work, but id need a place to do tuning for a chip and all. i was just wondering cause i didnt know if the stock engine components (at that mileage) could handle that much.

[Moolala]

to my understanding... positive displacement is what you want. if you want big hp, gobs of torque. go with the twin screw definetly.

[chisau]

Its pretty interesting that Stimpee's car pulled numbers as good or better than a stage 2 turbo that costs $10,900. Before long I'm sure we will see TS's in the Mid 11's or better w/ high trap speeds.


No need for a 2.4. The 2.2 opcon or the 2.3 Whipple/Lysholm would be more than plenty for any reasonable output level (or even unreasonable), and bolt directly on.

Also, don't confuse the "feel" with actual speed. What are the turbo cars you are comparing to trapping in the 1/4? The twin screw does not FEEL as fast as it IS. That is because humans can not perceive acceleration, they can feel/perceive JERK which is the time rate of change of acceleration. Turbos give you lots of JERK as the torque increases in the midrange. Centrifs give you JERK at the top end when the boost builds. The twin screw has "INSTANT JERK (tm)" that gets you instantly when you hit the throttle, but then the acceleration is essentially constant. Just provides a different feel.

It is okay, however to want more, some of us have issues like that!

You just would need to talk Karl into doing the software!

Maybe I need to blow my engine up so that I can build one and "go large"!

:D

[stimpee]

I will be in the high 11's in my current configuration by the end of the fall, or I will destroy my car trying, I can assure you that!! I ran my 12.38 at 113.37 mph on spark plugs that were trashed, up to gap of about 0.080" or more, and blowing out the spark above 5200 rpm!

Steve

[chisau]

:alright Hmmmm. That means that on a properly set up stg 1 car w/ alc/water injection and an excellent driver one could possibly pull mid to high 12's?



I will be in the high 11's in my current configuration by the end of the fall, or I will destroy my car trying, I can assure you that!! I ran my 12.38 at 113.37 mph on spark plugs that were trashed, up to gap of about 0.080" or more, and blowing out the spark above 5200 rpm!

Steve

[m3j0n]

steve, you are running a "stg 2" setup, right?

[jlange]

AA TS is for OBD II only, correct? Will there be an option for '95 M3s eventually (I won't be ready to buy until next year).

[m3j0n]

nope, AA offers one for the 95 m3.

[stimpee]

steve, you are running a "stg 2" setup, right?

Technically I guess I am a Stage II+ at the moment, since I am running about 2psi extra boost to "test" things. However prior to the sparkplug change a week or so ago, I don't think the extra boost was doing me much good due to spark issues. I hadn't changed them since I bought the car! :help I am running that on stock compression though, and we have the timing quite conservative on it. Just trying to see how things hold up, which gives extra confidence with the standard Stage II boost level.

I am hoping next time at the track to add a few more mph on with the fresh plugs!

And yes, we have delivered a Stage II 95 M3, so that is now available. I'll have to make sure we get the web site updated.

[///M3 CRAZY]

Technically I guess I am a Stage II+ at the moment, since I am running about 2psi extra boost to "test" things. However prior to the sparkplug change a week or so ago, I don't think the extra boost was doing me much good due to spark issues. I hadn't changed them since I bought the car! :help I am running that on stock compression though, and we have the timing quite conservative on it. Just trying to see how things hold up, which gives extra confidence with the standard Stage II boost level.

I am hoping next time at the track to add a few more mph on with the fresh plugs!

And yes, we have delivered a Stage II 95 M3, so that is now available. I'll have to make sure we get the web site updated.


so you are running 11psi on a twin screw with stock internals and stock HG? how many miles on the car when installed and how many miles on that set up so far? can you post a dyno of that setup?

[stimpee]

My setup is not recommended.

However I had 103k on the car upon installation, 105k now. No other modifications other than Active catback and UUC stage II FW and Spec stage III clutch.

This setup made ~365-370 on Active's dyno on Karl's car. I have not gotten dynojet numbers on it yet, but will try sometime soon.

Probably going to add water injection soon, and/or turn the boost down, as I am just doing it for testing, and perhaps a bit of fun! Probably going to lift the head and lose the gasket with stock headbolts at some point, but then that will give me an excuse to do something else :devillook

[///M3 CRAZY]

My setup is not recommended.

However I had 103k on the car upon installation, 105k now. No other modifications other than Active catback and UUC stage II FW and Spec stage III clutch.

This setup made ~365-370 on Active's dyno on Karl's car. I have not gotten dynojet numbers on it yet, but will try sometime soon.

Probably going to add water injection soon, and/or turn the boost down, as I am just doing it for testing, and perhaps a bit of fun! Probably going to lift the head and lose the gasket with stock headbolts at some point, but then that will give me an excuse to do something else :devillook

lol! that's what i was thinking. head lift. good luck with that. what was the torque #'s on that setup? i was looking at the dyno of the stage 2 on the AA site and looks like you get great torque early in the rpm but also looks like it starts to drop off after 4500 rpms. the reason i ask is cause it looks like we make about the same peak #'s on a dyno but obviously you get your torque a lot earlier then i do. and yet you ran about a half second faster then me in the 1/4. what does your car weigh in at? and what was your 60 foot time?

[stimpee]

I dont recall the exact torque numbers but the peak was 320+, and we had 300+ rwtq from about 2000 rpm to around 6k or so.

My 1/4 mile time you see was in complete street trim and weight except for a set of 16" Hoosier drag tires. My only good run of 3 runs was the first one. I took an "easy" launch from about 2k rpm, and shifted at about 6500 like a grandma. I just wanted a good clean run to feel out the car and the supercharger, plus get a feel for the tires. My 60', even with the easy launch, was a respectable 1.845s.

As I said before, in this configuration, and with the car running properly, I am thinking if I can get the tires heated properly and learn to launch the car, as well as run out the gears and shift quickly, I am hoping for "11's for sure"!

I want to see 11.xx at 115+ on this setup before I go back to a "standard" boost level, but we will see!

Steve

[///M3 CRAZY]

I dont recall the exact torque numbers but the peak was 320+, and we had 300+ rwtq from about 2000 rpm to around 6k or so.

My 1/4 mile time you see was in complete street trim and weight except for a set of 16" Hoosier drag tires. My only good run of 3 runs was the first one. I took an "easy" launch from about 2k rpm, and shifted at about 6500 like a grandma. I just wanted a good clean run to feel out the car and the supercharger, plus get a feel for the tires. My 60', even with the easy launch, was a respectable 1.845s.

As I said before, in this configuration, and with the car running properly, I am thinking if I can get the tires heated properly and learn to launch the car, as well as run out the gears and shift quickly, I am hoping for "11's for sure"!

I want to see 11.xx at 115+ on this setup before I go back to a "standard" boost level, but we will see!

Steve

that's where the differance is then. between the stereo and that i probably weigh at least 100lbs ore then you and the drag tires. if i lighten up the car and do tires i will bick up at least that half second. my sixty was 2.0 car about 3600#'s with me in it and i was traping 111. with the hoosiers i just bought i think i should see some low 12's. my goal is the same as yours, 11's this year!:buttrock i truely believe we will get there.

[jmc]

Is there a kit in the works for the Z3M cars? I was also wondering if you can use the euro/s54 oil coolers on these cars without any clearence issues?

JMC

[stimpee]

The only issue to work out will be the front heat exchanger fitment, and perhaps the plumbing routing and fill/bleed reservoir for the IC. We would probably just need a car to work out those fitment details, otherwise it is a direct fit.

As for the oil cooler, I am not sure, but I don't think it will be a problem, however you will probably have to go to flexible lines for the setup. You might want to check directly with Karl on that, as he could probably get someone to check it out.

Steve

[jmc]

The only issue to work out will be the front heat exchanger fitment, and perhaps the plumbing routing and fill/bleed reservoir for the IC. We would probably just need a car to work out those fitment details, otherwise it is a direct fit.

As for the oil cooler, I am not sure, but I don't think it will be a problem, however you will probably have to go to flexible lines for the setup. You might want to check directly with Karl on that, as he could probably get someone to check it out.

Steve

The best way to fit the HE is to remove the Z3m power steering cooler lines and place the M3 lines instead. I was able to fit a pretty thick HE after that. The s54 Z's have a reservior that mounts behind the shock tower in place of the cruise control. That woud require welding of the factory brackets but its clean and looks factory I plan on placing one in my rms car this summer.

These TS sound so ideal for our cars. I always felt we needed more low end torque and this is the answer. I maybe a convert in December...we shall see. As always thanks for the replies stimpee and great work on this kit! Nothing is more impresive than a guy banging this stuff out after hours in his garage :buttrock .

JMC

[chisau]

Crap! Just getting ready to pull the plug on this at the intro price and my headgasket lets go. The winner that owned this car before me really did a number on this car. Oh well. Maybe its a good thing. Stimpee, will AA custom make a chip to compensate for a low compression motor with the Twinscrew?

[m3j0n]

MIke, I'm sure AA can do something for you... They do magic with these cars. I am planning on running a lower compression HG, so I think were gonna be in the same boat. Planning on doing the headgasket and cams. I want to have the 2nd most powerful AA TS out there ;). damn you steve!

[stimpee]

:babyd

;)

[m3j0n]

^-------------------- tries to hold the jealousy back... but I cant......I hate you! :)

[GG///M3]

MIke, I'm sure AA can do something for you... They do magic with these cars. I am planning on running a lower compression HG, so I think were gonna be in the same boat. Planning on doing the headgasket and cams. I want to have the 2nd most powerful AA TS out there ;). damn you steve!


i thought you were going with a turbo kit?

[m3j0n]

i was toying with the idea between a turbo kit and the TS. AA and others convinced me that the TS was the better way to go for me.

[justaddcoffee]

stimpee-

hey, by comparision to a cam shaft install, how complicated is the TS to install? is it about an 8 hour job?

-scott.

[stimpee]

I would say that it is probably less "complicated", but will take more time due to more steps and more components, etc.

If you can handle the cam shaft install, and can comfortably remove and replace your intake manifold, you should be able to do it.

We are suggesting 10-12 hours for Level I install, and 16-18 for Level II as a conservative baseline.

Steve

[MrBlonde]

i was toying with the idea between a turbo kit and the TS. AA and others convinced me that the TS was the better way to go for me.
It's good you've decided on what you want to do. look forward to reading about it.

[justaddcoffee]

well, i pulled the trigger, stage 1 twinscrew is on the way.

but that got me thinking a little more on the upgrade path for the AA twinscrew. obviously, stage 2 is an available option, but what else is possible? at its maxed out limit, how much boost can the supercharger itself produce? essentially disregarding all engine mechanics, how far can this unit be pushed?

and what about cams? update programming would definitely be required, but will they make a difference? sport cams (such as schrick and most likely sunbelt) seem to make a notable difference with the CF superchargers, but those same cams are not recommended for turbo cars. how would shrick or sunbelt cams affect a positive displacement supercharger?

i guess headers would come next. fifty percent more air in; fifty percent more exhaust gas going out. seems like headers would a noteworthy difference since you would be moving a lot of exhaust gas out of the chamber. or have i oversimplified and missed something?

[VelocityM3]

If your looking to run more boost I would say wait to upgrade to stage 2. The stage one is run without an aftercooler so it needs to be a low boost setting to prevent any detenation. Maybe water/alchahol injection would allow you to raise the boost slightly but it was be a roll of the dice. I would consider exhaust modifications as a first step. Maybe cams after but mayswell upgrade to stage 2 if you have the money to spend on that.

[justaddcoffee]

i was more thinking for after stage 2. i've pretty much maxed out my FI budget for now so i'm just thinking about next year and what i can do after or in conjunction with stage 2.

[justaddcoffee]

well, i pulled the trigger, stage 1 twinscrew is on the way.

but that got me thinking a little more on the upgrade path for the AA twinscrew. obviously, stage 2 is an available option, but what else is possible? at its maxed out limit, how much boost can the supercharger itself produce? essentially disregarding all engine mechanics, how far can this unit be pushed?

and what about cams? update programming would definitely be required, but will they make a difference? sport cams (such as schrick and most likely sunbelt) seem to make a notable difference with the CF superchargers, but those same cams are not recommended for turbo cars. how would shrick or sunbelt cams affect a positive displacement supercharger?

i guess headers would come next. fifty percent more air in; fifty percent more exhaust gas going out. seems like headers would a noteworthy difference since you would be moving a lot of exhaust gas out of the chamber. or have i oversimplified and missed something?


bump. stimpee? anyone at active?

[BMWguy206]

bump. stimpee? anyone at active?

If you get a good set of headers then you should get more power but then you might see a drop in boost which is to be expected.

[jmc]

A bunch of guys added headers to their CF kits with minimal gains, I dont think its worth the money from a performance to dollar point of view. Now the audible improvements are a different matter:devillook


JMC

[stimpee]

Sorry, I just got back from vaction!

I do not yet know what the upper limits of the 1.7L compressor are. Over 400whp is definitely possible, but how much more than that, I currently don't know. Cams will probably help, especially on the top end, as long as you choose the right cams. We have not done enough testing with other mods and configurations yet to really know what is possible.

Also, if you end up hitting a limit in the low 400whp range and want more, larger compressors, either from Autorotor, Lysholm, or Whipple, will all bolt on directly up to 2.3L (with a minor change to the snout bracket for the Whipple and Lysholm units). The 2.2L Autorotor, and the 2.3L Whipple are both making well over 600whp on Mustang and other V8 applications...

[Tonus]

i was more thinking for after stage 2. i've pretty much maxed out my FI budget for now so i'm just thinking about next year and what i can do after or in conjunction with stage 2.

not running the stage 2 FTL :confused

FI on the I6 motor without an intercooler system..........good luck with the performance gains and longevity of the motor. I understand you invested a lot of money BUT go the full route if you're going to do it.


BTW I have driven Bob Tunnell's M, I was the second guy to drive it after the install......I am not novice to this FI :D community

[chisau]

not running the stage 2 FTL :confused

FI on the I6 motor without an intercooler system..........good luck with the performance gains and longevity of the motor. I understand you invested a lot of money BUT go the full route if you're going to do it.


BTW I have driven Bob Tunnell's M, I was the second guy to drive it after the install......I am not novice to this FI :D community

Interesting. Does your statement above apply only to the Twinscrew? Dinan has sold quite a few superchargers with no cooling solution at all that frequent the track and are covered by their warranty. I agree that it is probably not the best solution and the addition of W.I. or an after cooler would help greatly but I would think that there would still be a noticeable gain.. Right??

[BMWguy206]

Interesting. Does your statement above apply only to the Twinscrew? Dinan has sold quite a few superchargers with no cooling solution at all that frequent the track and are covered by their warranty. I agree that it is probably not the best solution and the addition of W.I. or an after cooler would help greatly but I would think that there would still be a noticeable gain.. Right??

Mike,

I have seen Dinan SC E36 M3 vehicles at the track and drivers told me that after a few laps, they can notice a big power loss to the point it feels like driving a stock powered M3. The intake charged temps get really hot and ignition timing is pulled back.

I experienced the same issue when I took a RMS Stage 1 on a BMW CCA event. The power was good for about 3 laps then the coolant temp goes up and I see E30 325i's passing me.

However, I do agree that getting some form of intercooling/aftercooling will benefit both the vehicle and driving experience.

[chisau]

Thanks Jon. Once I get my headgasket issue resolved, I will be running stg 1 AA TS with water injection...

[Tonus]

Interesting. Does your statement above apply only to the Twinscrew? Dinan has sold quite a few superchargers with no cooling solution at all that frequent the track and are covered by their warranty. I agree that it is probably not the best solution and the addition of W.I. or an after cooler would help greatly but I would think that there would still be a noticeable gain.. Right??


Well Mike cleared it up :D

BUT if you're demanding extremely more power out of an engine that does (X) amount already by throwing some form of FI on it. Then why would anyone not "upgrade" the coolant system via WI or A2A to match the added pressure on the engine?!

Before you put all your eggs into the AA system you might want to check Eurosports first :)

[m3j0n]

isnt eurosports package 2k more for nearly identical parts and power results??

[stimpee]

FWIW,

Although I think that charge cooling is a good thing, and I would want it on my personal car, we were pleasantly surprised with the intake air temps registered in testing the Level I kit. The only time we saw them rise significantly was during part throttle tuning under medium to high load for extended periods of time on the dyno.

What this indicates to me, is that in normal street use, the system should work very well. On the track, as Jon mentioned, I would certainly expect to see a performance reduction with extended full throttle use. Water injection should temper it significantly, and the intercooler system will all but eliminate any heat soak issues.

Steve

[Jim M3]

I would suggest if you plan on tracking the car to get an aftercooler. Street driving my Dinan kit was fine but on the track it needed cooling and W/A did a great job for me for several years.

[Tonus]

isnt eurosports package 2k more for nearly identical parts and power results??

nope, and software is kind of a big deal too...

And if you're going to spend the money and trust something like that on your car I would do some really in-depth research.

That is all.

[chisau]

To each their own. AA may not have as revered a name when it comes to tuning as JC, but their kits work. Any tuner that sells DIY kits is going some issues with installation and so on due to varying degrees of installer error and etc. Especially with several hundred kits sold.