Who installed the Euro Springs up front?

[Kevlar]

I remember about two weeks ago alot of discussion was going on about installing the Euro E36 M3 springs on the front of the US E36 M3.

<font size="+1">What happened? Where are the Results?</font>

I've got the itch to buy something for my car... I'm thinking suspension.

[Josh///M3]

you know u want the koni coilovers.. besides installing the euros in only the front will offset the balance of the car. Have fun in whatever you do.

Keep me posted,
Josh

[fourfa]

the US and Euro rears are almost identical. there's no point to changing them

[eclou]

None of us have received them yet as far as I know. Since the front springs may be a little stiffer (they was the Bayerische intended), I would guess the car should push less, and thus maybe improve handling?

Eugene Lou

[frayed]

Originally posted by Josh///M3
you know u want the koni coilovers.. besides installing the euros in only the front will offset the balance of the car. Have fun in whatever you do.

Keep me posted,
Josh

Josh,

I don't think so. The Euro and US rears are the same. Therefore changing the fronts to Euro's replicates the Euro setup. I've never heard of the Euro cars being unbalanced.

Kevlar,

Called Pacific BMW yesterday (on another issue). Mine were shipped out yesterday. Hopefully, I can find a shop to do the install next Saturday, which reminds me, I'll have to buy a digital camera too.

I'll post pics, hopefully next weekend.

[Josh///M3]

I didn't know that... thank you for clearing that up frayed. How much did the springs cost?

Later,
Josh

[Kevlar]

Something just came to mind...

Maybe the EuroM3 uses different springs up front because the engine may be heavier? Just curious...

However, it shouldn't be. Our engine gives our car a 50/50 weight distrobution. If the engine were heavier it would through off the balance. That or BMW would have to compensate by adding weight to the rear of the car.

This is just pointless rambling... throwing ideas out there.

[frayed]

Originally posted by Kevlar
Something just came to mind...

Maybe the EuroM3 uses different springs up front because the engine may be heavier? Just curious...

However, it shouldn't be. Our engine gives our car a 50/50 weight distrobution. If the engine were heavier it would through off the balance. That or BMW would have to compensate by adding weight to the rear of the car.

This is just pointless rambling... throwing ideas out there.


Hmm. That may be. My thinking is that the difference in spring constants isn't huge, but I get just under an inch drop. So, it's really for looks, with the hope that it helps tighten up roll slightly.

If there is anything amiss in the setup, I'll be sure to report it. But for the cash outlay, I have no problem being a guinea pig.

Josh, on the cost issue, I can't quite remember, but I think they were around 120. I should have mine tuesday, and I'll let you know when I get the invoice.

[///MCubed]

I am thinking about a suspension upgrade. Right now there is a GP on H&R Coilovers for $1200 going on at dtmpower, but if you are interested in getting the koni's from AA, I might join you if they can meet the price for the H&R's. Email me if you are interested.

[Texas M3/4]

Got mine installed this weekend. Thus far the result have not been what I wanted and I am still jacked about it.

The skinny so far.

The springs are about and inch shorter than the stock ones as measured uncompressed. Unfortunately in my eagerness to put them on I didn't measure my starting ride height. After putting them on the car sits just as high. I am hoping/guessing this is due to one of the following things.

1. The springs are shorter but stiff enough that the car doesnt' sag as much so the 1" difference is made up?
2. The car was on jack stands for a day and a half (install was interrupted) and needs to settle
3. Installed incorrectly. I took out the struts (pretty darn easy without removing the rotor and caliper like the Bentley says) and had a local shop decompress the springs and recompress the new ones. I have the struts on the proper L and R sides with the arrows facing forward...
4. My shocks are kaput? But only 46K miles on them and are made to work with the springs so I can't see why this would be the problem.
5. ????????????

From what I can tell the springs only feel a tad stiffer than the stock US ones and have a good feel. I can't be totally arbitrary as I put in Eibach sways at the same time on stiff/stiff.

Aside from the lack of height change I like it but I am so bummed about the height I don't even feel like thinking of it.

Any Ideas? And hopefully your results differ. Springs were $160 bucks from Pacific. I guess if nothing ends up being wrong or changeing the money is better spent on a Stygar SS.:mad:

Frayed - your wife will really love this one...car looks especially "dangerous" with no front suspension in....

I'll post some pics and a write-up if anyone is interested when I am not still pissed. Ever have a weekend where nothing goes right? Cars, girls, etc.??? Just generally pissed at the world right now.

Brad

[eclou]

Texas M3/4,

Springs will always take a little time to settle, some hopefull the car will drop a tad. Small consolation - You are the first! I am also considering Eibach sways- what do you think about them?

Thanks

Eugene Lou

[frayed]

Damn! Maybe I should return mine!? Sounds like the increase in stiffness is responsible for the lack of change in ride height.

Perhaps there is something that could be done with the spring hat or bump stops to modify height?

Anyone?

[JT-KGY]

Texas M,

Take some photos of your car.. and compare it with mine...
(try to take them at the same angle)...
http://albums.photopoint.com/j/AlbumIndex?u=1364356&a=13049565&f=0

My car is currently sitting on stock suspension and it's a
97 M3/2.

[SMSilver97]

Texas

What tire/wheel combination do you have on the front? Stock 225/45-17? I have 225/40-18's and they are the same height. I have a stock suspension on my 97 M3/2. I have about 1.5" to 1.75" between the top of the tire and the fender lip. About a 2-finger shot. Hope this helps. I was thinking about getting these sprirngs as well.

SM

[Zippy M3]

Hey guys,

For comparison to see if the new springs did anything, the best method of measuring the height is to measure the vertical length from the center of the roundel on your wheel to the fender lip . By comparing pictures of cars with different tire brands, sizes, etc. you really don't get an accurate comparison.

Tex,

Here are some numbers from a 96 M3 with stock springs and shocks. Let us know what your numbers are. Hope you are not too bummed out.

FL 14-1/8
FR 13-7/8
RL 13
RR 12-3/4

Everyone else,
Post your numbers and year of your car/ 2 or 4 door so that we can get a sample average. Make sure that your car isn't on a slope or that you didn't just make a hard turn and come to a standstill before you measure.

[Old M3 Driver]

FL 14-1/8
FR 13-7/8
RL 13
RR 12-3/4

Hey Zippy,

Those are my numbers! Wondered where you got them from ;)

[Zippy M3]

Originally posted by Old M3 Driver
FL 14-1/8
FR 13-7/8
RL 13
RR 12-3/4

Hey Zippy,

Those are my numbers! Wondered where you got them from ;)


Hahahaha....I didn't know that you frequent this board that often, so I took the liberty to post your info...anyway you get props for the numbers and technique!

[Josh///M3]

96s are sometimes abnormally low in the rear, just to let you guys know. H&R has had problems with this... i think they said if you have a 96 send the rears back cause they'll sit too low, and they'll send u some slightly higher ones. Just some info for ya.

Later,
Josh

[frayed]

FL 14 1/4
FR 14
RL 13
RR 13 1/4

[Texas M3/4]

Had to console myself by playing some golf yesterday in a company tourney. Too bad my golf game isn't much better...

I'll take some measurements and post them tomorrow. But as of yesterday I had 3 fingers of space in the front....bout the same as I had before.

Springs do feel good in conjunction with the new sways. I have them set stiff/stiff and while I really really like the flat cornering - you hardly notice turns everything feels so flat - it might be a bit stiff for the driving school I am signed up for in July. I went around a hard off-camber U-turn under the freeway this morning and it felt like the car just needed a little more freedom to keep everything planted. They aren't hard to adjust though. The sways fit just like stock and went in smooth. Front is really easy where the rear is a *bitch* as you have to work around the exhaust and there just isn't much space under there. You might want to take the exhuast off and I did deviate a bit from the vague instructions that Eibach provides. If you don't you will spend a lot to time trying to loosen a bolt a 1/8 of a turn at a time IF you can get to it.

Although its strange for a 97 (mine came from the previous owner this way and I didn't notice at the time - was uninformed) I am running on 235/40/17s on 7.5 rims all around. So the wheel already is *slightly* smaller than a 225/45 I think.

Obviously I will run it as is for now - but in a year or so when its time to change shocks (I will go with Koni single adjustables) I might go with something else. We will have to see.

Pics to come after I get my hands on my buddys digital camera.

[Texas M3/4]

FR 14 1/2
RR 13
FL 15!!! (car might be on an angle though)
RL 13

Still this is right at what I had before (3 fingers)...car looked a little high even before I put in the new springs.

When I change the front bar to the softer setting I'll double check everything looks ok.

[JT-KGY]

Originally posted by Texas M3/4
FR 14 1/2
RR 13
FL 15!!! (car might be on an angle though)
RL 13
Still this is right at what I had before (3 fingers)...car looked a little high even before I put in the new springs.
When I change the front bar to the softer setting I'll double check everything looks ok.

Does the spring settle/weigh down after time??

[m3dave]

Y'all mention that the euro rear springs are the same as stock. I was reading the UUC tech page on the euro springs and the rears are different for '95 at least. I guess it's the '96 on rears are the same...

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/html_techtip/techtips/e36_m3_spring.htm


Dave

[eclou]

Stock 97
FR 14
FL 14 1/8
RR 13
RL 13 1/8

[eclou]

Having now installed my H&R coilovers, my ride heights as follows:

FL: 13 1/8
FR: 13
RL: 12.5
RR: 12.5

I have my coilover perches adjusted 1/2 way down in front and 3/4 way down in rear. I got then 1 inch drop in front and .5 inch drop in the rear.

Suspension is totally compliant, yet firm. Reminds me of a stock Z06 suspension.

BTW what is brake dive again, I don't remember....

Eugene Lou

[frayed]

sounds like a perfect drop to me. i'm too old/conservative to go for a truly slammed look.

eugene, b/t your c/o's, sways, and r compound tires, your car must pull some serious g's around the track. if i recall, g-techs measure lateral g's. you should put one in the car next time you are at TWS just for fun.

With your post, some glowing reviews on the digests, and others here, I'm salivating for H&R c/o's. I wish this damn market would show signs of life to give me the confidence to spend 1.5k for new toys.

[jvit27]

Euro motors weigh more than a US spec. That is why the euro springs are stiffer up front to compensate for it. Ride height isn't much different because DOT specs the bumpers to be a certain height for safety. The euro's ive seen dont look any lower. Id spend the money on Eibachs insetad.

[eclou]

Frayed,

TMS is selling the coilovers for $1299. Come to Houston and we can install them in less than 3 hours (I have installed mine twice now in 72 hours -- don't ask). I have air tools. Also there is a BMW shop 3 miles from my house that does alignment with weights.

Eugene Lou

[fourfa]

I recently installed the Euro front springs, looking for just a slightly stiffer front suspension to go with my new Konis. And I got it - sharper turn-in, noticeably less brake dive (immediately apparent with the Euro light cutoff), more balanced cornering.

They also raised my front end 1 cm per side. I don't care too much about that, but I'm sure it's a deal breaker for most of you. The free length was the same as my 98 coupe stock springs, with a 10% or so larger wire diameter.

I'll just say that having suspension travel is a very good thing. One of my friends died in a car wreck when he lost control after running over a (dead) black dog on a pitch-black road with a very low suspension. You never know what to expect. But I wouldn't want to go through that on (for instance) H&R race springs slammed to the ground...

[bimmer95]

Originally posted by ///MCubed
I am thinking about a suspension upgrade. Right now there is a GP on H&R Coilovers for $1200 going on at dtmpower, but if you are interested in getting the koni's from AA, I might join you if they can meet the price for the H&R's.
I can get the Koni kit for $1275 if anyone's interested.

[frayed]

Originally posted by eclou
Frayed,

TMS is selling the coilovers for $1299. Come to Houston and we can install them in less than 3 hours (I have installed mine twice now in 72 hours -- don't ask). I have air tools. Also there is a BMW shop 3 miles from my house that does alignment with weights.

Eugene Lou

Thanks Eugene! I'll be sure to drop you a line when I take the plunge.

[Texas M3/4]

Hey Lou, let me know if you are still going to be in the c/o installing business early to mid next year! Maybe we can get Frayed to Houston as well and have an install party.

Also I am sure you probably have a post on them here or maybe on dtmpower but whats your impression of the URI UD pulleys? They look to me like a good streetable alternative to a ltw fly. I will be curious to hear some longer term tests and dyno runs.

Brad
Like Fourfa rally style M3 Euro Springs :)
ECIS
Eibach Sways
X-brace
AA Rear Strut bar
17x8 Superleggeras (*ahem* with a bend or so)
w/235/40 Kumhos (ok for the $ but not impressed)
RS SS prob next...

[aus]

Eugene and I both wrote our impressions of the URI pulleys the last few days. Both should be on the second page. Basically we both like it.

[eclou]

Brad,

the more the merrier. I went ahead and bought a heavy duty spring compressor since I figured I might be doing more stuff in the future, like the upper strut bearings.

The summary of the URI UD pulleys is -- easy install, car pulls like a V-8 in 1st-3rd gears, no rattles.

Eugene Lou