540i-6 v. WRX (STI?)

[gsibble]

I was surprised by these results, but this is the whole truth.....

I was heading to meet a friend when I saw a brand new black WRX with the big STI wing take a corner near my house really quickly. I couldn't follow but I figured I knew what route he was taking so I caught up. I see him and seeing as I don't have any exhaust and there was a light that was always red at 1am coming up, I decided to do a little fly-by to get his attention. Well, we meet up at the light and he taps his accelerator. I respond the same. He's got 2 friends in the car with him that are all smiles.....looks like he's trying to impress them (they were all Vandy students).

We watch the opposing light turn yellow and I hear his RPMs climb for the launch. I rev at about 2000RPM and turn off DSC. The light turns green and I drop the clutch....beaU-tiful launch. Just enough wheel spin to keep the RPMs in the start of the torque. I see him lurch forward as well but he loses ground immediately. I pull 1-1.5 cars almost instantly. (The LTW flywheel really releases all of the torque into the low-end on the 540) Through 1st gear, I maintain this lead although he's definitely keeping up. I slam into 2nd and I start pulling some. Soon enough he's 2-2.5 cars behind. Before 3rd, he was about 2.5-3 and shut down soon after at around 80. He turned at the next light.....never even bothered to catch up to me.

Now, I was pretty surprised at this! I was an idiot and never looked closely at the tail end of the WRX but I know there is a black WRX STI that I have seen before on campus. This one definitely had the STI tail, but hearing his engine at the launch and while racing he was definitely going all out. So would this be an STI or a regular WRX? I thought both would rape me.

In any case, it was a really really great race. I don't get many around here (this was my first real one) so it made me very :)

-G

[fm.illuminatus]

You should be able to spank a regular wrx. I was able to in an auto 540i wagon. He was probably a poser. :(

[gsibble]

You should be able to spank a regular wrx. I was able to in an auto 540i wagon. He was probably a poser. :(
Judging from how preppy these guys looked, I doubt they know anything about modding cars. It's possible though. Dunno.

[98///M3]

ya i bet it had to be a normal WRX, cuz with the mods u have listed u shouldnt be able to take an STi...

[SaiKoE36]

Well my cousin raced a wrx in his 98 m3 and it couldnt keep up for shit... haha He took him like nothing...So E36 m3 and 540 are about the same or almost....I bet it was a sti.....He just couldnt drive or maybe you are a excellent driver...who knows maybe ull c his car agian

[fm.illuminatus]

Judging from how preppy these guys looked, I doubt they know anything about modding cars. It's possible though. Dunno.

I'm dress/look very preppy. :D I know a bit about modding cars too. ;) You never know. :dunno

[SurfdogCP]

What sort of tailpipe did it have? Because the STi has the large single and the WRX has the smaller double. Also did it have badging? Because a lot of people like to put that wing on their car whether they are STi or not.

However, if he didn't get in quite the right RPM for the turbo... It's easily possible you could beat him. The 540i makes a weak launch because of the limited slip and the high low-end torque making it easy to spin, but once you hit second gear, it's all over.

[hwl328is]

Gotta look at the trap speeds. The STI would mutilate the 540i off the line, but from a roll, I can't imagine the 540i/6 losing. The STI and the 540i both trap at 102 mph in the 1/4, and whereas the STI starts losing steam at highway speeds the 540i is just stretching it's legs.

From a stoplight-STI should win with a competent driver.
From a roll-I think the 540i would dominate into triple digit speeds, considering e36 m3s pull on STIs on the highway, and the 540i pulls on e36 m3s.

[gsibble]

I saw it today.....it was an STI :buttrock

[cockerkiller68]

Gotta look at the trap speeds. The STI would mutilate the 540i off the line, but from a roll, I can't imagine the 540i/6 losing. The STI and the 540i both trap at 102 mph in the 1/4, and whereas the STI starts losing steam at highway speeds the 540i is just stretching it's legs.

From a stoplight-STI should win with a competent driver.
From a roll-I think the 540i would dominate into triple digit speeds, considering e36 m3s pull on STIs on the highway, and the 540i pulls on e36 m3s.
Best post in "The kill section" all week!!! FTW!
An actual thought out reply to a kill. Very nice.

BTW Nice kill. I took one on the freeway as well. From light to light though, I'm 0 for 2 vss STIs.

[carrrnuttt]

Gotta look at the trap speeds. The STI would mutilate the 540i off the line, but from a roll, I can't imagine the 540i/6 losing. The STI and the 540i both trap at 102 mph in the 1/4, and whereas the STI starts losing steam at highway speeds the 540i is just stretching it's legs.


You're perpetrating that fallacy again about AWD cars losing steam at highway speeds. The Porsche turbos certainly aren't affected, and neither are 3000GT VR-4s.

Evo's and STi's have pretty good top-ends, if boost holds. It's just that both cars, stock, have boosts that taper at the high-end of the RPM. Also, STi's trap at about 104, not 102. Lastly, anyone who has spent some significant time at a 1/4-track can tell you that better launches lend to slower traps, and few cars can launch like an AWD car. Fairly tough to use the trap of one against the other. Lastly, what about the 540's that trap at 97mph (http://www.dragtimes.com/BMW-540i-Timeslip-5851.html)?

Here's a video of a 2005 STi top-speed run: http://videos.streetfire.net/search/sti+top/0/8E4C19D4-AE0E-468F-A28A-8906B2F93A71.htm

He hits the 155-mph governor at the end.

[sprp85]

STIs are known for losing its power at the end.. its their gearings and awd, power, torque that makes them really really fast speeding up.. but at the end, unless they change they ratios, it will lose its power.. I mean compare to 540is .. :)

Oh yeah.. i saw a STi with stage 2 ecu with more boost getting stomped by a turbocharged scion Tc from like 40mph roll.. enuff said..



Great Kill by the way.

[augur11]

I used to be impressed by STI's, until I actually drove one. Don't get me wrong, they're quick, but I wouldn't go as far as calling them fast.

They're a good quick easy to drive car. I looked at one as a daily driver for a while, until I got into BMW's.

By the way, does anyone want to sell me their 540i/6?

[hwl328is]

You're perpetrating that fallacy again about AWD cars losing steam at highway speeds. The Porsche turbos certainly aren't affected, and neither are 3000GT VR-4s.

Evo's and STi's have pretty good top-ends, if boost holds. It's just that both cars, stock, have boosts that taper at the high-end of the RPM. Also, STi's trap at about 104, not 102. Lastly, anyone who has spent some significant time at a 1/4-track can tell you that better launches lend to slower traps, and few cars can launch like an AWD car. Fairly tough to use the trap of one against the other. Lastly, what about the 540's that trap at 97mph (http://www.dragtimes.com/BMW-540i-Timeslip-5851.html)?

Here's a video of a 2005 STi top-speed run: http://videos.streetfire.net/search/sti+top/0/8E4C19D4-AE0E-468F-A28A-8906B2F93A71.htm

He hits the 155-mph governor at the end.

So you are showing me a slip of a 540i that traps at 97 mph-are you implying that every 540i or the majority will trap at 97 mph? Do you know the elevation, conditions of the track, day, temperature, and all the other factors as to why/how it would trap 5 mph below what it is rated at?

My guess is no.

Regardless, you can also look at useable horsepower. Where the STI puts around 235 awhp, my 540i, and many others, are putting 252 rwhp/ 282 rwtq and on. Then take into consideration that our horsepower and torque curves are going to be more consistent and linear than a turbocharged STI. Not to mention that STIs boost does taper at the high end. I would be hard pressed to believe a stock STI will beat a stock 540i/6 at highway speeds.

[cockerkiller68]

That's some impressive power. I need to run one!!!!!!! ;)

[carrrnuttt]

Regardless, you can also look at useable horsepower. Where the STI puts around 235 awhp, my 540i, and many others, are putting 252 rwhp/ 282 rwtq and on. Then take into consideration that our horsepower and torque curves are going to be more consistent and linear than a turbocharged STI. Not to mention that STIs boost does taper at the high end. I would be hard pressed to believe a stock STI will beat a stock 540i/6 at highway speeds.

Did I ever say that the STi should beat a 540 top-end? The 540 WILL beat an STi up top, but for the other reasons you stated, not this fallacy about "AWD hurts top-end".

Also, AWHP can only be compared to another car's AWHP, as they are measured differently. Truth is, besides the M62's advantage low in the powerband, the EJ25 motor in the STi has more power and similar torque, and doesn't really suffer from lag all that much. The STi is also a LOT lighter than an E39. The E39's largest advantages are its aero (.31 Cd compared to the STi's .33), and its gearing. As cliché as it sounds, the 540i6 is designed with the Autobahn mentality, while the STi is rally-bred, designed to always keep the motor in boil, even in muddy hairpin turns.

Check it:



540i 6-speed:

1st: 4.23:1
2nd: 2.53:1
3rd: 1.67:1
4th: 1.23:1
5th: 1.0:1
6th: .83:1
Final: 2.81:1
(Reverse: 3.75:1)




STi 6-speed:

1st: 3.636
2nd: 2.375
3rd: 1.761
4th:1.346
5th:0.971
6th: 0.756
Final: 3.9
(Reverse: 3.545)


On rally-races, rarely will you get to 5th and especially 6th, which is why these gears on an STi are pretty much cruising gears exclusively. Notice the large gap between 4th and 5th.

THOSE are the reasons why the 540i WILL pull on an STi from 4th gear up, NOT because of the "AWD disadvantage".

[hwl328is]

Did I ever say that the STi should beat a 540 top-end? The 540 WILL beat an STi up top, but for the other reasons you stated, not this fallacy about "AWD hurts top-end".

Also, AWHP can only be compared to another car's AWHP, as they are measured differently. Truth is, besides the M62's advantage low in the powerband, the EJ25 motor in the STi has more power and similar torque, and doesn't really suffer from lag all that much. The STi is also a LOT lighter than an E39. The E39's largest advantages are its aero (.31 Cd compared to the STi's .33), and its gearing. As cliché as it sounds, the 540i6 is designed with the Autobahn mentality, while the STi is rally-bred, designed to always keep the motor in boil, even in muddy hairpin turns.


THOSE are the reasons why the 540i WILL pull on an STi from 4th gear up, NOT because of the "AWD disadvantage".

You must be pretty dense, because in NONE of my posts did I ever say the 540i/6 would beat the STI because of AWD. I said they lose steam up in the higher gears, which is true, and has nothing to do with AWD.

[carrrnuttt]

You must be pretty dense, because in NONE of my posts did I ever say the 540i/6 would beat the STI because of AWD. I said they lose steam up in the higher gears, which is true, and has nothing to do with AWD.

I was responding to the common fallacy. Though you did not mention the AWD "thing", nothing you said takes away from it either. If you indeed, do not buy into this myth, as you are implying, then why are you being defensive? You were also quite wrong in comparing the traps as a 540i that can launch like an AWD car (i.e.: on slicks), will LOSE speed through the traps, but gain ET, as the car has less "catching up" to do for the rest of the track.

[hwl328is]

I was responding to the common fallacy. Though you did not mention the AWD "thing", nothing you said takes away from it either. If you indeed, do not buy into this myth, as you are implying, then why are you being defensive? You were also quite wrong in comparing the traps as a 540i that can launch like an AWD car (i.e.: on slicks), will LOSE speed through the traps, but gain ET, as the car has less "catching up" to do for the rest of the track.

I find it amusing that you immediately assume I was talking about the AWD "fallacy". In fact, my posts about losing steam in the higher gears is very accurate, as WRX's and STI's are not geared for high speeds. They were geared for rally racing, and their gears are very short. Yes, I am fully aware that a car on slicks will trap less than a car that spins off the line, all for a better E.T., but the fact of the matter is that STI's are not highway monsters.

Argue all you want, but I never said the 540i had the advantage on the highway due to the STI's AWD.

After reading other posts you make in other threads, it is evident that you love to argue. Just make sure next time you argue a point which has been brought up, not one which you simply make up and pretend somebody said.

[Akumo]

Don't the newer Sti's pull a 4.8-4.9 0-60? I'm not sure about earlier models though.

[fastdream]

Good stuff. STi's are pretty quick and decently fast, but I'd not bet on a stock STi vs. 540 in a decently long race.

My '02 wrx made 232awhp and 237awtq on the stock turbo, it was a lot of fun up 'till about 80 or so then it wasn't really exciting enough to keep going much past 100. Maybe I'm just getting old. But it was a hell of a lot of fun at the autocross, lots of torque and awd was a blast to squirt through and out of corners.

1-3 were fun and hard to beat, but into 4th just didn't thrill me. Granted that's a 5-spd vs. the STi's 6-spd, so it may be a different animal even with similar power to my wrx (though my car was much lighter than a STi).

Watching that top end run of the STi just doesn't seem fast. I've been watching too many vettes and fast cars pull to 160 like that sti pulls to 100.

No wonder my wife thinks I'm crazy. I try to tell her that I need 600hp or so because it's safer. It gets to top speed (or enough speed) so fast that it minimizes the amount of time you have to spend at high speeds. You never know when you'll need lots of escape velocity to protect the family. Hmm I need a turbo m3.

[SurfdogCP]

No wonder my wife thinks I'm crazy. I try to tell her that I need 600hp or so because it's safer. It gets to top speed (or enough speed) so fast that it minimizes the amount of time you have to spend at high speeds. You never know when you'll need lots of escape velocity to protect the family. Hmm I need a turbo m3.

Ha ha ha... Yeah you do.

[Cacatfish]

Why all the talk of top-end? This race went through third gear and about 80mph. The Sti "Should" beat the 540i at those speeds. Sti's seem to trap 102-104 vs 100-102 for the 540i. In my experience with a few 540i/6's, 4th gear is the money gear. I havent been all that impressed by third. They are like freakin locomotive from 4th on up though....strangely fast, considering their more ordinary low speed preformance.