Performance of Michelin Pilot Sports?

[NLR]

I think these tires pretty much suck when it comes to any kind of spirited driving. Today I was driving home rather aggressively on a city road that has two lanes in each direction with curbs in the center as well as to the side of the road. While rounding a slight curve at a fairly good speed I had to back off because I could feel the tires starting to slip, which made me kinda nervous because I didn't want to end up spinning into either of the curbs.

In my previous '00 328i when it was time to replace the tires I replaced the stock Bridgestones with Michelin Pilot MXX3's. Those tires had unbelievable grip in the dry. Not once did I get the feeling I did today with the Sports on my '99 M3. I have taken curves much faster with the MXX3's with no slippage at all.

I have only had my M3 for a little over a month and the tires are in brand new condition with plenty of tread left. I'm sure these tires are alot better in the wet than the MXX3's, but I think they give up too much dry performance in the process. Too bad BMW didn't go with a different line after the MXX3's were discontinued. Sometimes I wish I was running on bald tires so that I would have a legitimate reason to buy better performing tires.Plus, I can't really afford to buy tires just for the sake of performance, but I guess I'll just live with it until these are near that point, which will unfortunately probably be awhile.

Anybody else feel the same way about this particular brand of tire and did any of you actually switch to something different. If so, what brand did you go with and how do you like them?

[///M3ryder NY]

I think you're pretty much in a minority as far as your thinking goes. Pilot Sports are hands down the best tires I've ever driven on, especially on an M3, that can push them to their intended limits.... Wet or dry...MXX3s dont hold a candle to Pilot sports...

The only comparable tire, from what I've heard from others are Bridgestone SO3's....

EDIT: coming from a 328, perhaps you're just not used to driving the M3 to it's limits... and I dont mean that as a knock on you, i'm simply saying perhaps you're just not at the point where you know the car's full limits...including how well the tires will hold in certain situations.... :dunno

[SteveB]

I have to agree with Ryder on this one. I replaced my MXX3s with Pilot Sports and really like the Sports much better. I've even done DEs on the Pilot Sports and had no problems.

[NLR]

Maybe it has something to do with my tire pressures. I currently have about 3 psi over the manufacturer's recommendation for all four tires. Is this optimal for enhanced traction, responsiveness and acceleration? If not, what do you guys recommend? I don't care how hard the ride will be if it means I'll gain better performance in the handling department or acceleration, with the latter probably being insignificant anyway. But, then again I don't want to be overly hard on my suspension for minimal gain.

I remember reading an issure of Car and Driver in which there was a comparison between an M5 and a Mercedes Benz E55. The M5 tested was equipped with Pilot Sports and the article stated that those tires on that particular car were running at least 50 psi. Has anyone else read that article and how would the e36 M3 behave with a similar setup?

[Gatorbait]

In the time I've had my car (since Feb. '98), I've had MXX3's, Pilot Sports, Toyo T1S', and Bridgestone S03's.

The best dry-handling tire I've had was the MXX3. Downside: they rode hard as rocks and were a handful in the rain.

My experience was different than yours. I loved my Pilot Sports. They gave away a little in handling to the MXX3's, but rode comfortably and were great in rain. Straight line stability was excellent and turn-in was crisp. Pushed hard though, and the Pilot Sports would understeer a bit more than the MXX3's and the S03's. Still, it's a great tire, and in many ways better than the MXX3 (IMO). As I recall, it was tough to break the Pilot Sports loose when I hammered the throttle.

The S03's (my current tire) are also excellent. They have a slight edge in handling over the Pilot Sports, but they tramline more than I'd like. Grip is excellent. The S03's are also good in wet weather, but not quite as good as the Pilot Sports (others may disagree here). For the money though, the S03's are hard to beat.

The Toyos were simply not in the same league with the other tires I've had.

When I burn the S03's to their cords, I'll give serious consideration to the Pilot Sports as a replacement. I may also stay with the S03's. They're both great tires.

Just a thought: Is it possible that the handling problems you're experiencing are related to worn rear trailing arm (toe) bushings? The handling on my car was pretty spooky until I replaced them two months ago. It's hard to imagine that the problems you're experiencing are due to your Pilot Sports, even if over inflated.

[///M3ryder NY]

Good, valid points made by all... NLR, I would reccommend against overinflating your tires....I know this doesn't help with acceleration, and I can't imagie it aiding handling in any way. It COULD be contributing to your feelings that the tires won't hold when pushed.

Someone keep me honest here, but that's what I would think...
:dunno

[M3RACER]

I have spent 7 track days this year on pilot sports in the stock staggered setup. I have no other tire to compare to but the pilots stick very well in the dry. I have also notice once you start to push them to there limit they make alot of noise. On the track I run them about 43-45 psi and on the street 38 psi cold.

[NLR]

Okay, so can someone give me an ideal psi to run on my tires for the street on the stock suspension? Should I just stick with the pressures listed on the door jamb? I have heard that higher pressures will give you more cornering power, but I don't know how true this is since I would think less rubber would be in contact with the road surface. Any thoughts please?

Also, regarding one of the above posts, how do I check to see if all my bushings are in good condition? Could I tell just by giving them a visual inspection?

[///Arman]

I have to agree with you guys on this also, I take my car on some very curvy roads and doing some serious corning on some road around my house and they stick very very well....

[BGM3]

I have the Pilots as well and I have mixed opinions on them. I can easily break traction with these as compared to say Bridgestone RE730. I ran the RE730s on M Contours which are a bit heavier rims than my 16-17lb Fikse FM10s. It took a bit of effort with the RE730s to break traction both in straight line and in turn in. I can get significant slipping with the Michelins just by nailing the throttle in first gear not dropping the clutch and even on a rolling start. I'm not sure this is due to the lighter rim/tire combo. I havn't had a chance for any track time recently so I cannot determine the best setting for me in regards to tire pressure. I'm currently running 34psi in the rear with the Michelins (like I used to with the MXX3 <- my favorite). The plus side is, when they warm up, they have great grip where as the RE730 gave way to understeer. I think the Pilots are no MXX3s in the dry but still a good high performance tire.