Toyo Proxes T1R’s: Opinions on the extreme amount of sidewall flex.

[BEHMER]

I just wanted to see if anyone has the same issues with these tires. Just 3 days ago I got my Toyo T1R tires for the rear of my 325i. I got 285/30/19’s.

Is it just me or is there an insane amount of sidewall flex with these tires?? The jelloie feeling is starting to grow on me a bit…I guess.

The best example to describe this feeling comes from a fast lane change. Once you get into the desired lane and you stiffen the wheel straight again the whole car aggressively rocks back in the opposite direction of the change.

At the first real experience I was taking a nice long but hard corner at about 60% of my personal limit for this car. As I began to smoothly turn in I almost shat myself. The car felt like it was falling out from under me and getting sucked away to the outside of the corner. Well I stayed committed and once the flexing to the outside edge stopped the car held stiff and as expected throughout the turn. It really did trip me out for a second though. Since then I have really started figuring these tires out though and I must say this T1Rs really hold the ground.

Once that initial heart-stopping sway is at its extents you can really trust these tires. I have just learned to have a slower turn-in while cornering at the limit. As each new turn goes by I am feeling more and more confident with the T1Rs. Overall I am happy…very happy with how these handle. This turn-in flex is very weird at first but I am thinking it might be an advantage once mastered.

I am hoping to get mixed reviews on this issue and your overall rating of this tire. Thanks for the read.

Sean Behm

Toyo T1R’s 7/10 in week 1

[toopercentmlk]

i have no personal experience but ive always heard that the t1-s were great tires although they had rather soft sidewalls, maybe this relates since its pretty much just an updated version of that tire. They yeild good grip and thats the important part for a street tire, i dont know if id want to track on them.

[Trackout]

I bought a set of T1R's this past summer. I know I did 2 days at VIR with them. Possibly a couple days at Summit Point also, can't remember. I felt the squirm also. I thought it was squirm from the tread pattern. I know a few that have tracked in the past with the previous T1S. They always complained about the squirmy tread pattern during initial use. I'd venture to bet the squirmyness will deminish along with the rubber. Like toopercentmlk said- They have respectable grip.

[CSBM5]

I have these on my 330i zhp (225/40 and 255/35-18's), and I know exactly what you are experiencing. It is tread squirm from what I can tell, and it gets slightly better as they wear in some. Mine have about 4k miles on them now. I will never purchase these tires again however nor will I suggest anyone buy the T1-R since there are much better choices out there.

[Daved]

Maybe some more air in them would help?

[CSBM5]

Maybe some more air in them would help?

Nope. Tried that...ran 44psi all around.

[J///MR]

My T1-R's have much less sidewall flex than the PS1's that were on my car previously. The Toyo's felt squirmy for me until about 500 miles, now they feel pretty good.

[ilia]

I wonder what kind of slip angles that tire likes...

[count_schemula]

I had S0-3 tires on my car. Very stiff sidewalls. Then I got some PS2. I was like, crap, I messed up bad, these tires blow. Darty, bouncy. Not crisp in turn-in or lane changes.

I messed with the shocks and the air pressure. They got a little better. A few thousand miles later better still.

Would I buy them again? Not sure, I'm only just now into the "good part" of the tire and I have no complaints. I have full confidence in the tires. But it was bummer that it took so long - maybe 2 months? I don't drive all that much, but it was a period of time to be sure.

Hold out hope, after you get a few thousand miles on them, they may transform into a more stable feeling tire.

One week is too soon to condemn them. I was ready to sell my PS2 tires after a week, and now the tire is behaving pretty damn good.

[JCK]

My T1Rs took some getting used to, but now I love them. I have about 7k miles on them and the grip is phenomenal.

[nickmpower]

Yeah i really hate the flex too. Some of it might have been because i went from 17's with rubber band tires though. I used to be able to feel exaclty what the car was doing through the steering wheel because i removed the power steering, but now i cant. Im not that impressed with their dry grip compared to the FZ4's that were on there, its better but not as much as i thought it was going to be. The wet grip howver is amazing. It feels like your not even driving in the wet

[s_ribs]

I think a lot of this is the tread pattern as noted earlier. I really dislike the tread design on these tires. Far too many small pieces of rubber. Sidewall flex varies greatly with each size on these tires. Some have next to no flex, others are a joke. I'm putting my money on tread design. This is one tire which will never see any time on my car.

[elh0102]

I had S0-3 tires on my car. Very stiff sidewalls. Then I got some PS2. I was like, crap, I messed up bad, these tires blow. Darty, bouncy. Not crisp in turn-in or lane changes.


This is the first time I have heard this complaint about the PS2. I have had both the SO3 and PS2 also, but on different cars, so I would have a hard time making a direct comparison. I recently bought PS2s for a C5 ZO6, and they feel great to me. As far as sidewall flex, they feel similar to the Goodyear Supercars I replaced, but better grip than the Goodyears. I'm surprised you didn't like them better immediately; but the SO3 is a very good tire.

[count_schemula]

I can't explain it either. I bought the PS2 since EVERYONE loved them and they were lighter than the S0-3 by pounds per tire.

Curves I used to take at 80mph, felt dangerous at 65mph... I ended up lowering the air pressure in the rear tires and pulling the rear shocks and moving them from near full firm to near full soft. That calmed things down quite a bit.

It was not until I put a few thousand miles on the tires that I really felt them come into their own. I like them ok now, but I'm prolly going back to S0-3 tires next time.

It was a seriously different car when I first got the PS2. I had already had the car 2 years, so, I was used to the car.

I like the PS2 tires now, but, at $800+ a set... I can't wait until the tread is at 50% before I can start having fun...

[CSBM5]

This past summer within about 2 months of each other, I put T1-R's on the 330i, PS2's on the V70R and BFG KDW2's on the 850R in addition to buying Dunlop SSR's for the M5 for Oktoberfest. The T1-R's were the only disappointment. The PS2's are awesome, and they feel very connected to the road without sidewall flex/tread squirm/etc, and this is on a car that is much less connected to the road than the 330i. ;-) The V70R had Pirelli Pzero Rosso tires, and the PS2's seem much better in terms of ultimate grip and feedback.

The biggest surprise for me was the BFG KDW2. Other than perhaps a bit too much road noise, these are very much "underdog" tires imo. Much more dry grip than I expected, and they are very predictable around the peak of the tractive force/slip angle curve. For the money, I don't know of a better all around street tire. If money is not an issue, the PS2 is the way to go from my experience.

[Kevinlpl]

Very disappointed with new T1-Rs. Ran Michelin Pilots then T1-S with reasonable satisfaction. All three tires are adequate for street. Have ran 20+ track days in the last year and I am the least pleased with the T1-Rs. After talking to a Toyo rep at a BMW School who said the T1-R would be be "quieter, firmer, grippier and last longer" I was excited to wear out the T1-Ss. I am no longer excited. Best street tire I have ran at the track (best for me=wear, traction, feel, predictability) is the OE continentals on the '05. My tire guy, who does not carry Contis, admits in his opinion the Conti is on of the best HP street tires. I have heard some guys do not like them, but I would be willing to buy them, if someone has some take offs for the '05 in 19s. Car and Driver or R&T did tire shoot out a month ago, very interesting. T1-R did not rate well with them either.

[uansari1]

This past summer within about 2 months of each other, I put T1-R's on the 330i, PS2's on the V70R and BFG KDW2's on the 850R in addition to buying Dunlop SSR's for the M5 for Oktoberfest. The T1-R's were the only disappointment. The PS2's are awesome, and they feel very connected to the road without sidewall flex/tread squirm/etc, and this is on a car that is much less connected to the road than the 330i. ;-) The V70R had Pirelli Pzero Rosso tires, and the PS2's seem much better in terms of ultimate grip and feedback.

The biggest surprise for me was the BFG KDW2. Other than perhaps a bit too much road noise, these are very much "underdog" tires imo. Much more dry grip than I expected, and they are very predictable around the peak of the tractive force/slip angle curve. For the money, I don't know of a better all around street tire. If money is not an issue, the PS2 is the way to go from my experience.

Do you have any experience with the Kumho MX's? If so, how would those compare to the KDW's?

[CSBM5]

No experince with Kumho tires...sorry.

[Mr. M3]

Same mushy experience with the Toyo T1-R's with the stock 17" m-contours, but when I upgraded to SSR gt2 17" by 8" all around, with 225/45/17" on the front, it seemed to get rid of the unpredictible aspect of the tire. It just felt perfect, no trammlining, perfect feedback and everything. This is most likly due to going to a wider rim size. (7.5" to 8").

[count_schemula]

I wonder if that was part of my problem with the S0-3 > PS2 switch.

The S0-3 were 265. The PS2 are 255. The OEM tire is 245.

The S0-3 at 265 was awesome from day 1.

[Mblaster]

Do you have any experience with the Kumho MX's? If so, how would those compare to the KDW's?


I'm running the MX. So far I don't have any complaints. You can't beat the price and at a 220 treadwear they are very sticky. I may look into the KD as I'm not interested in wet performance at all. Or maybe the new Falken 615, that tire shows lots of promise.

[kaiservon]

It seems that they need break-in time. Figure 300-500 miles. Once past that, they seem to be much better.

[M3 Pete]

I'm running the MX. So far I don't have any complaints. You can't beat the price and at a 220 treadwear they are very sticky. I may look into the KD as I'm not interested in wet performance at all. Or maybe the new Falken 615, that tire shows lots of promise.BFG KD is supposed to be much better than the Kumho MX, but at a much higher price.

[Nihilation]

I too run the PS2's. These tires have been nothing short of awesome in every situation. Countless autocrosses, three HPDE's, two drift events and daily driven to boot. I would definitely buy again and recommend these to anyone at anytime as a the best summer tire, hands down.