i think i still have tranny slop after TMEs. 3rd gear is tough

[TXBDan]

my car as red UUC tranny mounts w/ enforcers and on a hard shift to 3rd i often grind the gears. by hard i mean floored to redline. anything less and its fine. i now have it figured out and if i shift hard i need to hold the shifter at the 3rd gear gate a sec untill i can sort of feel the tranny settle back down and then it goes into gear. could this be tranny/engine movement? or maybe the syncro trying to catch up.. i dunno.

any ideas? all other gears shift fine all the time. 5 is easy to find. no 1st/reverse problems.

[deilenberger]

my car as red UUC tranny mounts w/ enforcers and on a hard shift to 3rd i often grind the gears. by hard i mean floored to redline. anything less and its fine. i now have it figured out and if i shift hard i need to hold the shifter at the 3rd gear gate a sec untill i can sort of feel the tranny settle back down and then it goes into gear. could this be tranny/engine movement? or maybe the syncro trying to catch up.. i dunno.

any ideas? all other gears shift fine all the time. 5 is easy to find. no 1st/reverse problems.
Uhhh... run thought how you're shifting when this happens again?

You have it bouncing off the rev-limited AS you shift? Is there something I'm missing here?

[TXBDan]

well no, it doesnt hit the limiter, just right up close to it. shifting at 6.2kish.

its almost as if with the shifter all the way forward in the 3rd gear slot, its not engaged w/ the engine preloaded w/ that much power, and so when i let of the gas there is a delay until the engine/tranny returns to a normal position and the shifter then can reach and engage. this delay doesnt seem to happen when shifting in any other gear under the same load/rpm.

its not a huge deal, because i can just pause and wait for it, but its a little inconvenient and if there's a solution id like to hear it

[Rob Levinson]

Sounds like you have one lazy synchro. These transmissions respond dramatically to different transmission fluid choices. I would strongly recommend trying Redline D4 Synthetic ATF, give it about 500 miles for it to fully update the additive package in the synchro surfaces. This should make that synchro work a bit better.

[nonphixion]

I got a lazy synchro when the car is cold for about 5 mins (NY winter), should I change the fluid or just let it roll? I just put in RP 75/90

[Rob Levinson]

I got a lazy synchro when the car is cold for about 5 mins (NY winter), should I change the fluid or just let it roll? I just put in RP 75/90

Change it. The D4 typically makes that exact cold-temp problem better than anything else we've tested.

- Rob

[s_ribs]

I'll second the Redline D4 ATF suggestion. I changed fluid to that shortly after buying my car and it has worked perfectly.

[4ZPN]

How's D4-ATF compare to Royal Purple's SynchroMax?

[Rob Levinson]

How's D4-ATF compare to Royal Purple's SynchroMax?

As above, the D4 typically makes that exact cold-temp problem better than anything else we've tested. We've tested almost everything.

- Rob

[TXBDan]

hrmm. the previous owner (i bought the car 3k ago) said he replaced the tranny fluid w/ redline.. i assume he used the right stuff. i was thinking about trying the royal purple, but if this is as good as it gets maybe ill just change it again to be sure the right stuff is in there..

thanks!

[JT///M3]

Sounds like you have one lazy synchro. These transmissions respond dramatically to different transmission fluid choices. I would strongly recommend trying Redline D4 Synthetic ATF, give it about 500 miles for it to fully update the additive package in the synchro surfaces. This should make that synchro work a bit better.

Do you think the new OEM BMW reformulated lifetime tranny flud LTF2 will be better?

[Sadiq]

I replaced my trans fluid 700 highway miles (2 weeks) ago w/ redline d4 atf. it had never been switched out before. my car has 115k miles. just put in a uuc evo 3 today w/ delrin carrier bushings and black tme, and i am getting the gear grinding from 2nd to 3rd at moderate rpm's, im talking like 3k-3.5k rpm.

[Jeron]

I replaced my trans fluid 700 highway miles (2 weeks) ago w/ redline d4 atf. it had never been switched out before. my car has 115k miles. just put in a uuc evo 3 today w/ delrin carrier bushings and black tme, and i am getting the gear grinding from 2nd to 3rd at moderate rpm's, im talking like 3k-3.5k rpm.
When did you put in the clutch stop? If it is set too high even by a mm it can make gears grind depending on how hard you press the pedal against the stop.

[Sadiq]

I actually took the clutch stop out after a few days because it was too long and I was grinding gears every once in a while.

[Jeron]

So the stop on there now travels plenty past the clutch engagement point?

Make sure you put the shifter back together correctly and check under the boot for interference with the foam pad etc.

Rob at UUC will probably ask you to loosen the mounts and the bracket to make sure there isn't any preload then re-tighten the mounts first to 16ftlb then the bracket to the chassis. "I" don't think this will help.

Does it help the grinding when pushing the stick into gear harder? Does anything seem to help prevent the grinding?

[Sadiq]

there is no stop on there now.

there isnt interference under the boot.

the only thing that helps when going from 2nd to 3rd is to let the revs fall back down and THEN shift.

[Jeron]

I guess Rob's syncro suggestion above sounds likely. I have no experience in that area. Maybe switch to RP Syncromax since it is supposed to have a modifier to help syncros.

[Sadiq]

I guess Rob's syncro suggestion above sounds likely. I have no experience in that area. Maybe switch to RP Syncromax since it is supposed to have a modifier to help syncros.

rob's suggestion was to put in redline, which is what i did 2 weeks ago.

[M52 POWER!]

I switched to D4ATF and am unimpressed. I to now have the 3rd gear grind when I shift close to redline from 2nd. Not cool! Until I drive it around for atleast 20 mins to warm it up it will grind 3rd. Doesn't make sense since the stuff is advertised for cold startups..... :confused

[Sadiq]

thing is, im not even near redline when i shift and i still get the gear grind... happens on cold startup, grinds when i shift at like 3k rpm. i did notice smoother shifting once i changed to d4atf and had the stock shifter.

[M52 POWER!]

thing is, im not even near redline when i shift and i still get the gear grind... happens on cold startup, grinds when i shift at like 3k rpm. i did notice smoother shifting once i changed to d4atf and had the stock shifter.

Yea the shifter moves "more freely" and slides into gear nicely when the synchors decide to work right but I don't think it's to great for the syncros but everything else is just dandy.......

[Jeron]

rob's suggestion was to put in redline, which is what i did 2 weeks ago.
Good point!
I suppose the Redline is designed for manual tranny sycros just as RP Sycromax. The point being the plain old ATF may not perform as well in a manual.

Actually the point is, make sure the Redline he recommended is designed manual transmissions. I doubt this will fix your problem as I've been running plain ATF (RP MaxATF, Sycromax goes in this week) for a year but it might be worth a look.

[Sadiq]

redline d4 atf is designed for manual and automatic trannies.

[mkeeton]

I have new red tranny mounts and over the last year developed grinding on shifting to 3rd at high rpm. Same as you, slight pause would alleviate the problem.
First tried Redline which was significantly worse. Tranny felt looser and the shifter moved more easily but the grind was worse. Maybe I didn't give the Redline enough time but it was grinding on almost every shift.

Switched back to BMW ATF after 2 weeks. Slight improvement but basically back to what I had before the first change to Redline.

Then 2 weeks ago put in Royal Purple. The M is going to be my track car and I figured if I could get one season out of the tranny, that would be good while I practice heel/toe etc. After Royal Purple it feels much better. Nice easy movement and no grinding. I have tried high rpm shifts as quick as I can shift and no problems so far. So, basically feels back to normal. I can't tell any difference between 3rd gear and the others.

Just my experience.

[Sadiq]

mkeeton... this is probably the most useful post i've seen yet on the topic. did you just install TME's? or did you also install an ssk? Exactly which RP fluid did you put in? Is this a possible symptom of over-torquing the TME bolts?

[mkeeton]

I had slight grinding in 3rd gear for about a month. Just started it seemed for no reason. I was going to a track day and decided to do UUC red tranny mounts with enforcers. I have a Dinan short shift which I like. After the tranny mounts the gear selection felt better (more precise and less effort) but the grinding was the same.

Then I started doing the fluid changes to see what helped. I have seen the posts on Synchromax on the M5board, where there are some guys who think it is great but some controversy about how it does with the seals. Still, I figured I had nothing to lose at this point on the M3. Worst case, it did nothing and I am still looking at transmission replacement in the end. So, I have been pleasantly surprised to find such a marked improvement. I used Royal Purple Synchromax which I think is the only fluid they make. My tranny is marked to use BMW ATF.

[Sadiq]

im gonna try loosening the TME's, then i'll change to RP if that doesnt help. I torqued them to 16 ft-lb to the best of my knowledge, but it's pretty easy to over-torque 16ft-lbs with a big 1.5-ft long 1/4" drive torque wrench.

[TXBDan]

actually guys, since i switched to redline D4 atf the problem has gone away. it had redline MTF before and it was too thick i think

[Jeron]

Funny story, I posted to this thread last night to recommend adjusting the clutch stop and to recommend RP Syncromax.

By coincidence I had installed UUC TME Black and ACS-SSK last week.

Well the big coincidence is I had the exact problem this morning for the first time. I drove it a while just to see how it developed and I'm sure it is a syncro problem. It got better when the tranny was good and hot. I'm running POS Walmart ATF because I'm flushing tranny every 2 days for 2 weeks. Don't ask.

RP Syncromax will be back in there by Friday for a DE.

[Sadiq]

Funny story, I posted to this thread last night to recommend adjusting the clutch stop and to recommend RP Syncromax.


Just to reiterate... I took the clutch stop out before even installing the TME's/ssk amd I do not use the clutch stop at all.

[JT///M3]

Whats wrong with the BMW fluids? Does everyone think BMW puts crap in their cars and that all these other companies can one up the OEM stuff? You guys are basically experiementing with your cars. Using hear-say as gospel. I want to see studies and validated lab tests. Wait, there is none. Maybe only the BMW engineers have that info and have made their fluid decisions based on that.

[Sadiq]

A lot of BMW's design is a compromise of performance/convenience. MOST people would rather have lifetime fluid than switch it out every 25-30k miles. MOST people would rather have a long shifter than a short shifter. MOST people would rather use a metal impeller than a plastic one. What you are saying is that no one should mod their car at all in any way because BMW's engineers have designed their cars a certain way, and that way is flawless.

[Jeron]

Whats wrong with the BMW fluids? Does everyone think BMW puts crap in their cars and that all these other companies can one up the OEM stuff? You guys are basically experiementing with your cars. Using hear-say as gospel. I want to see studies and validated lab tests. Wait, there is none. Maybe only the BMW engineers have that info and have made their fluid decisions based on that.

Maybe we should all use BMW motor oil and change it every 15k. Maybe we should NEVER change the fluid in our diff or tranny AT ALL because BMW said so.

Certainly they had the longevity of the cars in mind when they made those decisions.

Besides BMW has their own labs where they research and develop oils for exclusive use in their cars. Certainly they would never consider picking an existing oil such as Castrol and just slap their name on it.