Filing Lawsuit against BMW

[callmedoc]

Here's the story in a nutshell. My brother bought an 03 745Li (with 22" Donz-nicest rims for the seven BTW) with 15K miles on it from a non BMW dealer (car is still under warranty). Anyway, he's had this recurrent problem with the electronic throttle in which the car will accelerate on its own sometimes, and other times it doesnt want to go when you press on the throttle. The car has been to Essex BMW NUMEROUS times, and each time, the problem goes away for a week, and then comes back. The car is simply a hazard on the road.

Here's the good part. After some researching it turns out the BMW bought the car back from the original owner because he took it in 11 times for the SAME PROBLEM, and instead of lemon-ing it, they sold the car TO ANOTHER NON-BIMMER dealership!!

Now, the Seven is at Essex BMW and after pleading to them that the car should be lemmoned and junked, they say they will NOT DO IT because the car was not bought at a BMW dealership (meanwhile they got rid of it knowing of the problem with the car).

Regardless, a lawsuit must be filed. Anyone have any advice or been in a similar situation with BMW?

[Kevlar]

Did you try calling the BMW NA customer service number?

[Seala8]

you sure it was teh electronic throttle? i had the same problem after my car got detailed 1997 318ti, it went away after a couple days and hasnt bothered me since. i think my dme was just wet or something. check the dme, that is what caused my car to do the same thing

[callmedoc]

It's a lot more complex than a "wet" dme. The 7 apparently has a very complex electronic throttle system....i don't believe the dealer even knows what's wrong.

BMW NA said they will not replace the car since it was not bought at a bimmer dealership. Meanwhile, the car is under warranty...:nono

[Kell]

You should calll BMW of North America (BWW NA) which is located in New Jersey. They'll help you with what you need.

*Edit*

Oh well, looks like you guys are screwed then.

[cgregory]

you sure it was teh electronic throttle? i had the same problem after my car got detailed 1997 318ti, it went away after a couple days and hasnt bothered me since. i think my dme was just wet or something. check the dme, that is what caused my car to do the same thing

I'm guessing if this has happened numerous times over the years it's not a damp DME.

[e3251985]

You do not have to buy it at a BMW dealership to keep warranty intact.
They have 3 tries to fix or its Lemon Law ....Period.
I wouldnt let the warranty run out before this is resolved.
OR let the car do its thing and get itself into an accident.
Lawyers will have a cakewalk with it then.

[EEEEeeee36]

You do not have to buy it at a BMW dealership to keep warranty intact.
They have 3 tries to fix or its Lemon Law ....Period.
I wouldnt let the warranty run out before this is resolved.
OR let the car do its thing and get itself into an accident.
Lawyers will have a cakewalk with it then.
Does Lemon Law apply to a non-original owner/car over two years old/24k miles? I thought the Lemon Law had a Statute of Limitations?

I would let the dealership keep the car and pay for your rental until they fix the problem. While they say it is an electronic throttle issue, I would recommend replacing the DME. Does that engine have ITBs? Too lazy to look it up.... :D

[seonadancing]

Is there really such thing as a Lemon Law? This is the first time that i've heard of this.

[EEEEeeee36]

Does Lemon Law apply to a non-original owner/car over two years old/24k miles? I thought the Lemon Law had a Statute of Limitations?

I would let the dealership keep the car and pay for your rental until they fix the problem. While they say it is an electronic throttle issue, I would recommend replacing the DME. Does that engine have ITBs? Too lazy to look it up.... :D
Check this out: http://www.kahnandassociates.com/lemon_law/faq.htm

NJ Lemon Law specific FAQ, and a free case review for Lemon Law claims. Good info :thumbup:

[seonadancing]

:eyecrazy

[EEEEeeee36]

Is there really such thing as a Lemon Law? This is the first time that i've heard of this.
Yes, I've have two friends who have had their vehicle replaced due to state Lemon Law requirements because the issue could not be repaired within multiple attempts.

If the Lemon Law does not apply there are still Federal Warranty Laws that apply and offer the same remedies.

[gobuffs]

I would figure that if you have proof that the car was bought back under the lemon law for the same problem you are having a lawyer would make easy work of somebody taking the car back. Hire a lawyer and get them to fire off some letters.

[EEEEeeee36]

:eyecrazy
Na saan galing PI?

[Vinny Fins]

lemon law does not apply to secondary owners. If the non bimmer dealer purchased the veh from auction than odds are BMW supplied a "disclaimer" stating the problem w/the vehicle. They're mandated by law and I highly doubt they would side-step that. It's up to the dealer to have the buyer sign the disclaimer acknowledging the problem. It sounds like the dealer is where you want to start, not BMW NA.

Good luck.

[SMCC]

Take it to another dealership and see if they can fix the problem under warranty. Pretty sure I've read the whole thread and nobody has said that yet.

That's the little bit of confidence you get buying used. At least he got a helluva deal, right...???! :D

[EEEEeeee36]

lemon law does not apply to secondary owners. If the non bimmer dealer purchased the veh from auction than odds are BMW supplied a "disclaimer" stating the problem w/the vehicle. They're mandated by law and I highly doubt they would side-step that. It's up to the dealer to have the buyer sign the disclaimer acknowledging the problem. It sounds like the dealer is where you want to start, not BMW NA.

Good luck.
Yes but if the dealer is attempting to repair the vehicle under warranty then the warranty is indeed still in force - 2nd owner, non BMW stealership, all of that is a mute point.

He should still be protected by Federal Warranty codes.

[e3251985]

Im going thru similar problems with an S10 I bought new. Many attempts at fixing now warranty has run out and they say sorry we wont continue to fix your truck. IN fla the lemon law says 6 months before the warranty has expired you must file. other states are different so dont waste any time. Also did the second dealer indeed sign a waiver from first(hold harmless) then you need to go after them too for not disclosing.

[///M3-Mike]

nt

[Vinny Fins]

Yes but if the dealer is attempting to repair the vehicle under warranty then the warranty is indeed still in force - 2nd owner, non BMW stealership, all of that is a mute point.

He should still be protected by Federal Warranty codes.

You're correct about the warranty but that has nothing to do with lemon law. Lemon law only applies to the original owner. The factory warranty still applies and warrants any problems but BMW is no longer responsible for buying back a vehicle w/recurrent problems. Again, if the vehicle was truly a manufacturer buyback, the manufacturer has to, by law, supply a disclaimer stating the problem at auction. The dealer that buys the vehicle then has to have the purchasing customer sign the disclaimer stating they acknowledge why the vehicle was bought back and resold. That responsibility lays in the hands of the secondary dealership, not BMW NA. As stated before, it sounds like the first place to start is the dealer where the vehicle was purchased....
1. Find out where they purchased the veh from
2. Why did that veh make it to auction? Was it a manufacturer buyback?
3. If it was a buyback, where's the disclaimer stating the reason for buyback?
4. Get a copy showing you never signed anything acknowledging the problem.
5. Try to rationalize w/the dealer they're in the wrong and either they can buy the veh back or face litigation.
6. if thy refuse to face reality, contact a good lawyer.

Good luck.

[seonadancing]

Na saan galing PI?


It seems like you're trying to speak tagalog there :D . I'm from Manila. And nope, the roads here are ain't that bad :stickoutt .

I'm just wondering how a car problem can be unsolvable. Why not replace the whole DME or something. And how can a company like BMW with like 50 years of experience create a lemon car!!! :help

[sirtiger]

(Most issues were with the 01's)

wasn't the new 7 was 2002 and up? :confused

[///M3-Mike]

Yes it was, typo.. I was referring to the first model year. Thanks for the informative post

[mose121]

It's a lot more complex than a "wet" dme. The 7 apparently has a very complex electronic throttle system....i don't believe the dealer even knows what's wrong.

BMW NA said they will not replace the car since it was not bought at a bimmer dealership. Meanwhile, the car is under warranty...:nono

1st off, what are they doing that makes the problem go away for week before returning? Are they just reprogramming or are they replacing something?

Just b/c you bought it at a non-bmw dealer does not mean it cannot be considered a lemon. Here's what you do. Take it to the dealer and tell them that you will not take the car back until it is fixed and that your lawyer is aware of the situation. If the car is out of service for 30 days without being fixed, it's a lemon by law. Just sit back and drive thier loaner car until they can fix it or 30 days pass. Then you have solid legal round to stand on and BMWNA will not have much of a choice but to get you a new car. PM me if you have more ?'s.

And for god sake, DO NOT wreck the car on purpose for obvious reasons. Learn the particulars of the lemon law and then use that to make your car fit that criteria. Risking someone else's or your safety is the worst thing you could do by wrecking on purpose.

[Vinny Fins]

^
AGAIN, lemon law DOESN'T apply to a secondary vehicle purchase. You can consider the veh a lemon, however, BMW has no interest what you consider it if you didn't purchase it from them NEW...

[mose121]

^
AGAIN, lemon law DOESN'T apply to a secondary vehicle purchase. You can consider the veh a lemon, however, BMW has no interest what you consider it if you didn't purchase it from them NEW...


Actually, this could be correct and I forgot about it. However, if it's a dangerous situation created by a faulty part while the car is still under warranty, BMW has to assume some kind of liability. I would still take the car to the dealer after talking to BMWNA and leave it until it's fixed. You can't be expected to drive a dangerous car around. In fact, I would guess in states that have inspections you could be failed for that condition (like a stuck throttle or something). I need to know what the dealer is doing to temporarily correct the issue and then I can talk to some people here and try to get some more info for you. We have some of the best Bimmer techs around.

[Imperialduckm3]

I have to side with Vinny on this issue. The car if you have done a carfax would have told the history, that it was a buyback. In California, our lemon laws are very good in protecting its customers and could vary by states.

But in California, if after the fourth complain about the same problem. The original owner, can file a lemon law claim against the car. If the BMW NA or Dealerships buys back the vehicle. They can't resell it without fixing the problems and letting any prospective buyer know of the problem.

But here's a loophole in this lemon law stuff, there's no rules if BMW NA buys the car back from the original owner and then they can put it in a auction with a disclaimer of the problem (without fixing it). Its up the who ever buys the car, to ask about any existing problems. They don't have to disclose, if you don't ask.

So, you should try your claim with the dealership you brought the car from. Because BMW NA, not going to deal with the car.

Oh BTW, did you get a pretty good deal on the 7's? I asked because that could be the main reason the non-BMW dealership price their car.

Good Luck and hope you come out good on this....

[mose121]

if you give me the VIN I can run a carfax to see what it says.

[Vinny Fins]

Lemon Law disclosure for new vehicles in the state of New Jersey:

"IMPORTANT: If this vehicle is defective, you may be entitled under New Jersey law to a refund of the purchase price or your lease payments. For complete information regarding your rights and remedies under the relevant law, contact the New Jersey Department of Law and Public Safety, Division of Consumer Affairs, Lemon Law Unit, at:
PO Box 45026
Newark, NJ. 07101
Telephone # 973-504-6226"

Hope this helps you out

[callmedoc]

Thank you everyone for your replies. I really appreciate all the helpful information. We have contacted a lawyer to help straighten the issue out. Right now, it appears that a lawsuit will have to be filed against BMW NA AND the dealership where the seven was bought. The bottom line is the car is under warranty and BMW cannot fix the car. They are obligated to fix any warranty issue sufficiently, and they are not able to do so. The car accelerates on its own for God Sakes!! Unfortunately, BMW of North America has been of NO help whatsoever. What a shame for such a reputable company.

Regardless, the 745 Li is currently at the Bimmer dealership with no apparent resolve in sight. We have a loaner (04 325i ) and will keep it till something can be worked out.

I will keep everyone up to date on whats going on. Thanks again.

[sirtiger]

cool, hope it works out for ya... keep us posted :)

[Juicy Double]

Getting rid of the 22's will solve everything.

[HBpredhunter]

yes ive heard about essex, they dont pay their technicians crap, so the factory trained techs just dont apply their.
they can go somewhere else and be paid 10-20k a year more, with better benefits.
so what you have is techs that got really no clue about bmws, and try to work on em... it wouldnt be so bad, but even if they wanted to change out all the parts related to the throttle (which would be cheaper than dealing with the 11 returns) the service management wont let the tech do it.

sue the dealership. not bmw. bmw makes mistakes, something just fucked up when the part got made... it happens to every car. but the DEALER should have taken care of it.
its not HARD to fix that problem. its just they didnt wanna fork out the cash to get the warrenty parts.

EASILY could have swapped the throttle body, pedals, harness, and fully reboot the ecu, and the problem woudld positivly disspeared.... but no, the dealer was too cheap ass....

[mathew r]

I would sue both, the lawyer is doing the right thing. Coz if you file a lawsuit, it is up to them to prove they aint guilty. But what I would have done is first to ask the lawyer to send a legal letter to BMW HQ in US advising any more delay in reponse will result in unnecessary media coverage. That way, they will probably do whatever necessary to please you..if no reponse whatsover is recevied, then i file a lawsuit. So you won't be up against those corporate lawyers (Big firms). Corporate image is the first thing they worry about..whether it is dealership or BMW at fault. All the best & good luck, man. To the extent possible, ask for more than a brand new car.

[Irish03]

Actually the burden of proof is upon the plantiff.

Have you considered taking the car to a different dealership for a second or third opinion? While your car is worked on by techs it costs BMW money because they have to pay the dealer for time spent working on the car. If you keep taking it in and taking it in, it's more likely that they will fix it. However, it's possible that this car can't be fixed.

Unfortunately the lemon laws will not help second and subsequent purchasers unless you live in a state with lemon laws that apply to used car purchases. In addition, the lemon law that applies is that of the state wherever the car was purchased.

Best of luck.

[B.Watts]

Coz if you file a lawsuit, it is up to them to prove they aint guilty.

Umm, no it's not.

[no catches]

that sounds very dangerous. Try to declare it a lemon.

[evosnp]

^
AGAIN, lemon law DOESN'T apply to a secondary vehicle purchase. You can consider the veh a lemon, however, BMW has no interest what you consider it if you didn't purchase it from them NEW...

Some of you guys make valid points but try to remember that each state treats "lemons" in a different way under state case law. I believe in all states the dealer you bought it from has to disclose that info, much like a salvage title. The dealer you bought it from be it BMW center or not has to recognize the manufacturer buy-back. Hire a lawyer and go after the place you bought it for citing fraudulent selling practices. (if and only if the condition was not disclosed to the buyer). If it was disclosed your lawyer may have a more difficult time proving malicious intent. POINT BEING its a state matter, so hire a lawyer in your state and don't take legal advise from out-state strangers including myself

[bimmeracer3]

updates

[m3ntalmn]

hold on i'm loading my shotgun, i want to shoot some parts at this one too.:D i am sorry to hear about your situation and i fail to see how the dealership can refuse to work on your car. unless it can be directly proven that an aftermarket part placed on the vehicle while under warranty caused the vehicle to malfunction they are obligated to resolve the problem. you should do a little research and see if those wheels/tires have the same overall diameter as the oem wheels/tires since that could potentially factor in. although i have not seen aftermarket wheels affect any bmw vehicles with electronic throttles in that way, you never know. let me know if you need the shotgun i can sling parts at it all day.:rolleyes

[QuickSilver2]

"OR let the car do its thing and get itself into an accident"

Bad advice.

Now that you know it has this defect, if you drive it and causes an accident then you are liable.

If what you are saying is true I would stop driving that car until it's resovled.

But that's just me.

[Reprisal]

Here's the good part. After some researching it turns out the BMW bought the car back from the original owner because he took it in 11 times for the SAME PROBLEM, and instead of lemon-ing it, they sold the car TO ANOTHER NON-BIMMER dealership!!


That's the part that should allow him to apply for a lemon law, 2nd owner or not. The car was obviously bought back, meaning something was wrong with it even before his purchase. They tried to push the problem off on someone else by selling it to a non-BMW dealership, probably without the new dealer knowing of the problem. That's where I see the wrong in this. If you're the second owner, and you buy a car that you find out has been having repeated problems before you bought it..... that's a lemon.

My mom is having the same issue with a dodge stratus right now. Keeps throwing a CEL after the tranny/motor (almost like a miss.... but it's a large jerk really) skips a beat just crusing down the road. has to coast to a stop... turn the car off and on, and resume driving. She's been to the dealer going on 8-10 times. I say fight it. My mother got a lawyer involved... and she let dodge know she wasn't buying anymore of thier crap.

[Irish1]

It appears an Attorney could also pursue BMW for fraud, in that they allowed an unsafe vehicle to be sold off and are refusing to rectify the condition under warranty. This smacks of a situation that would add greatly to an award in civil litigation WAY beyond the expenses you've incurred. The BMW dealer and BMW NA should discuss this and rectify the situation with a replacement vehicle or a buyback that covers every expense you've had, including time off from work, etc. It appears that you've done your best to solve the problem and been patient with BMW, despite the disrespect you've suffered. Your respectful behavior weighs heavily with juries in civil suits: they LOVE to award the underdog, i.e. harmed citizen, awards from uncaring corporations. Is the BMW dealer AND BMW NA aware you're discussing this here on Bimmerforums?