Car & Driver Tire Test

[bimmerdriver]

C&D did a test of 11 different tires on an E90 325. (225/45-17 all around.) They used Tire Rack's facilities. Thanks Tire Rack.

They covered off most of the commonly used performance tires, but the Bridgestone S-03 was missing. The BFG g-Force T/A® KDW NT was also missing. I'm curious about that tire so I'm disappointed it wasn't tested.

I was surprised that the Goodyear F1 GS-D3 won overall. I was also surprised that the Toyo T1-R came in 8th. I have T1-S on my car right now and I always thought they were pretty good tires.

Reading the reviews on Tire Rack, the Goodyear tires don't seem to be very popular among BMW drivers. I'm interested in hearing comments on the Goodyear F1. Are these tires as good as C&D says? I live in Vancouver, so wet performance is important to me. Since it gets cold here in the winter, I have winter tires (AVS Winter) so cold weather performance isn't very important. I'm also looking for a tire with a good tread wear rating.

My front Toyos are worn out and I was about to get a set of T1-R to replace them, but now I'm second guessing that decision.

[atizzle]

Yeah, I posted this article some time ago, and no one really responded. Good info though....but I guess you never know until you try the tire yourself

http://bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=442882

[black_box]

the test would have been so much more useful if they had posted lap times, braking distances, skidpad numbers, etc. Its only given for a few of the tires, and you can't see how much better some of the tires are. I think price was also factored into the scores, so the $200+ advans and PS2's would come in lower than the Goodyear F1's at $160 or so (i'd have to confirm prices).

For a street tire, the F1's are probably a great choice. I'm more interested in autocross, so the advans are probably going to be what I buy. I've seen several other tests (by Tirerack and grassroots motorsports) where the Advan's were top of the pack for dry grip (beaten by the new falken azenis, but I've heard those may overheat on our cars if the conditions are right).

another thing about that test, we don't know how many runs they did, what were the averages, how many different drivers?, etc. IIRC, the GRM report used two drivers, both of which drove each tire several times. results were given for both drivers. When you're looking for 10ths of a second (some of these are 1/2 a second off the pace), you need to be more picky about the testing.

[mikeo]

The F1s have a bad rep at track/DE days. The fronts seem to badly chew up the outside tread blocks, regardless of suspension alignment.

[Michael9218]

I saw that article as well and was surprised that the Goodyears won. I tried them on my M Roadster when they first came out. Put 600 miles on them in the mountains. Returned the tires for BFG's. GS-D3's were squirmy. I have a Dinan suspension and they just didn't work with the setup. Maybe a softer suspension would work better with the tire.

[cpt97M3]

the test would have been so much more useful if they had posted lap times, braking distances, skidpad numbers, etc. Its only given for a few of the tires, and you can't see how much better some of the tires are. I think price was also factored into the scores, so the $200+ advans and PS2's would come in lower than the Goodyear F1's at $160 or so (i'd have to confirm prices).


The magazine article did have that info, but the online copy does not. Also, final results factored in dry performance, wet performance, and price. The magazine had dry only results (skidpad, braking, and autox), and the Advan came out on top with that ranking. The magazine had much more useful data. I just wish they had tested the Falken RT-615's also.

Chris

[Draven]

Goodyear F1's are horrible for Autox/Track days. When I bought my 1st M3 it had a set of the F1's on it. They won't hook up for their life. They would tear up so easily at Autoxs and unpredictible in the rain. Soon after I got a set of the PS2's. I'll swear by those tires. They were so sticky, great in the rain, snow(got caught in a snow storm, LOL not fun) and overall such a good tire. I put roughly 20k street miles, 6 or more Autoxs, and 4 track days on them. Then finally blew the rears out drifting. I must on the track, the PS2 was always the same every turn no matter what the track temp or how many laps I did. I really liked the PS2 tires and won't mind spending the extra money for a much better tire. Will be buying another street set this spring. My choice is the PS2 over any other tires for street/track days. But switching to R comps this year for track days.

[elh0102]

I don't know about others, but I think I often suffer from too much information. I didn't agree with the results of the test, and I think a lot of the tire decision is based on the individual car/suspension, and the driver's style and preference. I have used a few different street tires over the last three years, and my order of preference for warm, dry weather performance is: Michelin PS2, new Falken Azenis 615, Bridgestone SO-3, Goodrich KDW, Continental Contisport (OE tire). I have never tried the Goodyear GS-D3, but friends have, and I would be very surprised if I were to favor them over the Michelin PS2 which, for me, is the best street tire I have ever driven.

[cpt97M3]

I don't know about others, but I think I often suffer from too much information. I didn't agree with the results of the test, and I think a lot of the tire decision is based on the individual car/suspension, and the driver's style and preference. I have used a few different street tires over the last three years, and my order of preference for warm, dry weather performance is: Michelin PS2, new Falken Azenis 615, Bridgestone SO-3, Goodrich KDW, Continental Contisport (OE tire). I have never tried the Goodyear GS-D3, but friends have, and I would be very surprised if I were to favor them over the Michelin PS2 which, for me, is the best street tire I have ever driven.

That's true. But also, the PS2 was ranked higher than the Goodyear for dry only results. It lost some on being expensive. Of course, the Advan Neova was the top ranked dry performance tire. 2nd was almost a tie between the PS2 and BFG KD, IIRC.

Chris

[gerry_miranda]

People need to look at the result of the individual tests and base their own ranking on the tests that is most significant to them. I did not care about cost, so the winner did not make sense to me.

[Wildstar]

They also factored in the UTQG wear rating. Which, they know, is not useful when comparing between brands. So that made no sense to me. Several things didn't make sense in that test. Didn't seem to be up to the past C&D standards.

[HSCC///M3]

I can understand factoring in price, especially since they gave it such a low weight. What I can't understand is factoring in the treadwear rating because, as Wildstar points out, it is completely useless in this case.

If you take out the price and treadwear factors, here's how they finish:

883.3 Yokohama (+2)
873.6 Goodyear (-1)
869.8 Michelin (+1)
858.8 Bridgestone (+5)
855.6 Continental (-3)
842.7 BFGoodrich (+4)
842.6 Dunlop (-1)
839.6 Pirelli (-1)
829.7 Hankook (-4)
820.1 Kumho (+1)
817.9 Toyo (-3)

[gerry_miranda]

I can understand factoring in price, especially since they gave it such a low weight. What I can't understand is factoring in the treadwear rating because, as Wildstar points out, it is completely useless in this case.

If you take out the price and treadwear factors, here's how they finish:


I also rewighed the rest. There are certain things that are imprtant to me and others that are not so important.

[cpt97M3]

I like the dry only results. But I sure wish they tested the Falken RT-615 that a lot of street tire autox'ers use. I'm not sure why TireRack doesn't sell Falkens.

Chris

[WytLytnyn]

Goodyear F1's are horrible for Autox/Track days. When I bought my 1st M3 it had a set of the F1's on it. They won't hook up for their life. They would tear up so easily at Autoxs and unpredictible in the rain. Soon after I got a set of the PS2's. I'll swear by those tires. They were so sticky, great in the rain, snow(got caught in a snow storm, LOL not fun) and overall such a good tire. I put roughly 20k street miles, 6 or more Autoxs, and 4 track days on them. Then finally blew the rears out drifting. I must on the track, the PS2 was always the same every turn no matter what the track temp or how many laps I did. I really liked the PS2 tires and won't mind spending the extra money for a much better tire. Will be buying another street set this spring. My choice is the PS2 over any other tires for street/track days. But switching to R comps this year for track days.

+1

I'm replacing my first set of PS2's with 18.5K miles on them tomorrow. I was debating whether or not to get the F1's, but this post confirmed my decision to get another set of PS2's.

[nickmpower]

god damnit. i just bought some t1r's. they seem fine to me

[heezyo2o]

Could someone scan the car and driver article. I'm particularly interested in the graph and raw numbers that cannot be found online.

If you can't scan it, could you please then list the dry performance numbers.

Thanks.

[HSCC///M3]

(I didn't have time to put them in order, sorry)

Braking 50-0 mph, feet:
BFGoodrich 74.7
Bridgestone 77.9
Continental 78.5
Dunlop 78.5
Goodyear 76.6
Hankook 80.6
Kumho 78.1
Michelin 73.4
Pirelli 78.3
Toyo 78.4
Yokohama 69.1

Autocross, seconds:
BFGoodrich 29.76
Bridgestone 30.10
Continental 30.30
Dunlop 30.16
Goodyear 30.05
Hankook 29.86
Kumho 30.28
Michelin 29.92
Pirelli 30.03
Toyo 30.67
Yokohama 29.66

Skidpad, g:
BFGoodrich .95
Bridgestone .93
Continental .92
Dunlop .92
Goodyear .94
Hankook .94
Kumho .92
Michelin .93
Pirelli .92
Toyo .88
Yokohama .94


Dry Performance Score:
Yokohama 298.9
BFGoodrich 291.7
Michelin 290.7
Goodyear 286.8
Bridgesone 283.7
Pirelli 282.3
Kuhmo 281.8
Hankook 281.5
Dunlop 281.5
Continental 281.1
Toyo 275.8

[M3 Pete]

Thanks for posting that, I tried to buy the magazine today but Barnes & Noble was out.

From those scores, looks like the Kuhmo and the Hankook are the best bang for buck dry tires. If the 'kooks came in my size (245/40/17) I'd give them a try.

But as Chris said, they should have tested the Falken 615 too.

[HSCC///M3]

...But as Chris said, they should have tested the Falken 615 too.
I think C&D's objective was to test popular street tires. Has anyone outside of the autox community even heard of an Azenis? I too would have liked to see the 615 in the mix, but I'm not surprised they left it out.

[cpt97M3]

I think C&D's objective was to test popular street tires. Has anyone outside of the autox community even heard of an Azenis? I too would have liked to see the 615 in the mix, but I'm not surprised they left it out.

It was. But the other reason they left it out is because all the tires came from TireRack, and TireRack doesn't sell the Falken's.

Chris