What does everyone think about this tire review?

[custom32]

Tire review (http://www.caranddriver.com/article.asp?section_id=4&article_id=10252&page_number=1)
Makes me want to get the Conti's.



Happy Thanksgiving!

[Jean-Claude]

I didn't like my Contisports. I love my Eagle F1s.
There's a review for you.

[madsedan]

I've run the Conti Sport 2's on a couple different street cars and always liked them. I am running them in 245/35-18 on my current car and even when doing a couple hard laps at Barber motorsports they were still predictable and gave plenty of feedback as they got close to the limit, I was surprised at how fast I was able to take a couple of the corners at Barber's with these tires.

[lazyass349]

my dad has the contis on his e46 m3 and im actually really impressed with the tire. you never hear much about them so i didnt know what to expect. but i give it the thumbs up. Ive also heard great things about the GY eagle F1...but ive never had a good experience with a goodyear tire so i cant get myself to try that out

[s_ribs]

/\ I'm with you on the GY's. Don't like them.

Conti's are good tires... there are just better tires out there for the same or less money.

[argento]

I had conti's on my e46 for the first 40k miles. They were pretty good, but got a little noisy after 10k miles. They wore very well and I was surprised how long they lasted. Being that hard, the performance suffered a bit but it all comes down to what is more important to you.

I'm extremely impressed with the Toyo TS1's I'm running now. They were $100 cheaper per tire over PS2's. That plus the fact it's one of the lightest tires you can buy, made me go toyo over PS2. I've got PS1 on the E36 and cost aside, michelin is my favorite.

$0.02
jjr

[Croak]

Keep in mind that price and treadwear had strong impacts on the final ratings...take cost (and durability, another cost factor) out of the equation and it shook up a little different.


On dry surfaces, the Conti never rose above third from last among 11 tires. It felt soft and imprecise, two qualities not in the vocabularies of performance tires. Geswein grouped it with the other "dull and disconnected" tires.


we gave points based on a tire's price (we used the typical selling price in our calculations) and tread-wear grade, which is a rough estimate of how long a tire will have usable tread. For the price and tread-wear ratings we used the same proportional method.


In a cost is no object test, the Yoko probably would have won, and the Pilot Sport 2 and Goodyear would probably have duked it out for second and third.

[thejlevie]

I've been very happy with my PS2's, especially in the wet. I pretty much finished them off this past weekend with PBOC at Barber (they were new in June). I did get 10 track days out of them, so I'm not complaining. I'm thinking GY F1 DS-G3's for the next set, based on cost and performance. They promise a bit better dry performance than the Michelins and still have excellent wet traction.

[ArcticSilverM3]

Why in the world did they grab the RE050 from Bridgestone instead of the S03?!? This doesn't make any sense when the test is purely 'high performance' tires. I really wish the S03 was tested to see how it stackes up.

[Croak]

It's been tested, and found lacking compared to this generation of tires.

It's just so 2003. ;)

Check out Tire Rack for details.

[M3 Pete]

So who here has tried the Toyo T1-R? The test ranked it 8 out of 11, and only because it was cheap and had a high treadwear rating. Basically, they said it sucked, which surprised me. A buddy with an M Coupe said they have no grip compared to the Falken Azenis he had on previously.

Anyone here have any experience with teh new T1-R?

FYI - here is the text from the article:

Toyo says its new T1R has "high-modulus bead apex rubber." You probably don't know what that means, and neither do we. This wasn't much more clear: "Spiral-wound, jointless edge and capplies." If this test were based on no comprendo engineer-speak, Toyo would win.

In fact, the Proxes never placed higher than eighth in any test, and in two dry tests, the autocross and the skidpad, the Toyo finished last, trailing the top finishers by significant margins. In some tests it felt better than it actually was performing, but overall, Geswein noted it was "soft and imprecise" and didn't "feel like a sport tire."

In the end, the Toyo has its high wear grade (280) and attractive price ($135) to thank for its eighth-place finish. In performance terms, there are lots of tires that do better. Perhaps a new set of "capplies" would help.

[M3 Pete]

FYI - I had the Michelin PS2, 235/40/17 all around on staggered rims, very good, very neutral, and I liked it a lot on the track at Willow Springs. But at Cal Speedway, they rolled over horribly in the front, even at hot pressures in the low 40's, and also developed a sidewall blister, so I had to stop using them. Disappointing for such an expensive tire. Not sure if the 7.5 inch rim had anything to do with the rolling over, it's 0.5 less than they recommend, but that's what the LTW used.

In addition, lots of folks use the Kuhmo MX on the track, which came in dead last in the test. In a recent thread on the track forum, lots of guys said that the Goodyear, which was the top rated tire, wore terribly on the outer tread blocks.

I think one of the problems is that they ran all these tires new. Some tires just don't work well until they have had some wear. I can understand why they didn't try to wear the tires down any, as it might have led to some uneven comparisons, but I can't help but think some of the tires might have fared differently. In addition, they used a low speed 30 second autocross course, which is fine if you are doing autox, but may not translate well to the track.

[DANGERFOOT]

I have kuhmo ecsta supras (i think thats what there called) and they suck beyond belief. I was short on cash and they were the cheapest tires i could find for 18/255s. Im not sure if its just that i have some power to the rear wheels but they seem like they spin way to easy. And the weird thing is they dont throw off any smoke. I did a donut messin around one day and had the revs sittin at about 6000 without the wheels squealing at all and it barely left rubber on the pavement.

[yellowbullet]

after reading this i MUST drive my GY's in the rain!!!

ps. to those of you who don't know me that well, i don't drive my car in the rain :(

[fliplap]

I really liked the Contis when I had them. Would I ever put them on the car again? Not a chance. There's just too many other better tires out there, some for much less money.

Right now my list goes in this order (best to worst, only what I've owned)

Falken GR-Beta 451s - Not as good in the wet as the PS2, but I live in Arizona so this really isn't a big deal. Great tire and an excellent value.
Michelin Pilot Sport PS2s - Great in the wet but I don't care for the unusually soft sidewalls, great otherwise.
ContiSportConact 2 - Ugly in the wet, quiet and controlled.
Yokohama ES100 - Run, don't walk, away from these tires. Terrible in the wet, terrible in the dry. They're cheap and reflect that in thier performance.

[paul e]

Not much talk about the First Place Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3... Can we get some personal impressions of these?

[E36M3E]

I have the contact 2, 245x40x17 all 4 corners. so far they are very good for the street and the severe canyon driving I do. I had sp 9000's before and these are hands down a better tire then the dunlop.

my only comment is the sidewall is a bit soft...which makes for great street tire but you can really feel it roll over in hard turn-in. I am experimenting with higher pressures for canyon driving.

[s_ribs]

Not much talk about the First Place Goodyear Eagle F1 GS-D3... Can we get some personal impressions of these?

There are a few comments at the top of the thread.

They are at the bottom of my list, and I will never buy them. Absolutely horrible tire on my dad's 968. It really hindered the performance limits in a number of aspects

[mobil1]

So who here has tried the Toyo T1-R? The test ranked it 8 out of 11, and only because it was cheap and had a high treadwear rating. Basically, they said it sucked, which surprised me. A buddy with an M Coupe said they have no grip compared to the Falken Azenis he had on previously.

Anyone here have any experience with teh new T1-R?

FYI - here is the text from the article:

Toyo says its new T1R has "high-modulus bead apex rubber." You probably don't know what that means, and neither do we. This wasn't much more clear: "Spiral-wound, jointless edge and capplies." If this test were based on no comprendo engineer-speak, Toyo would win.

In fact, the Proxes never placed higher than eighth in any test, and in two dry tests, the autocross and the skidpad, the Toyo finished last, trailing the top finishers by significant margins. In some tests it felt better than it actually was performing, but overall, Geswein noted it was "soft and imprecise" and didn't "feel like a sport tire."

In the end, the Toyo has its high wear grade (280) and attractive price ($135) to thank for its eighth-place finish. In performance terms, there are lots of tires that do better. Perhaps a new set of "capplies" would help.


Where are you getting Toyo T1-R's for 135 a tire? I just dropped 375 for 2 245/40-17's, and the cheapest I found them for was 350 mounted.

Are you maybe talking about just the standard proxes?

Anyways, to give you a review of the T1-R's (formally known as T1-S), they are spectacular for the Northwest. It rains here 9/12 months, so I needed a good high performance wet tire. However, its been fairly dry here the last few weeks, and the tires still grip very well. I actually have to try in order to get them to let loose in the dry. In the wet, they hold a lot longer than you would think before breaking loose. Definitely raised my confidence for driving in the rain.

I will be replacing my front (PS2's) with Toyo T1-R's soon (despite them having a bit of tread left) becase im so impressed.


Edit: Im also dissappointed they didnt say anything about a wet road test. This C&D review sounds very lazy.

[Casebrius]

Has anyone tried the Fuzion ZRi's?

[Perrodulce]

I was a tester for the Contisport 2's, testing out some new compound they were trying. I was really unhappy with them, and as they wore down I lost rear traction constantly. When I removed them at the end of a 2 1/2 yr test, I was looking at the fuzions, but talked to tire rack and they recommended the G-Force Sports. I bought a set through Discount Tire and had them mounted and balanced w/ a full replacement cert on each one for $544. That is an unbelievable deal and they are fantastic. So far, I love them. They are WAY more predictable than the Conti's and 1/2 the price...

[Casebrius]

I have the fuzions on the rear and have been very happy with them. I had them Road-force balanced and the guy said they were VERY well balanced and true. Evidently, the Road Force balancer gives a reading of the 'trueness' of the tire. He said these were some of the best he's ever seen for new tires.

[ArcticSilverM3]

Edit: Im also dissappointed they didnt say anything about a wet road test. This C&D review sounds very lazy.

Umm, they had 3 wet tests out of the 6 tests they did. They goodyear won the wet tests.

[hamanncheese]

I also wonder why the Toyo T1-R scored so bad. C&D did not mention whether or not the test tires were broken-in before testing. I hear the T1-R is a bit "greasy" before break-in. And if this is true, it would certainly affect its performance capabilities.

[M3 Pete]

Where are you getting Toyo T1-R's for 135 a tire? I just dropped 375 for 2 245/40-17's, and the cheapest I found them for was 350 mounted.

Are you maybe talking about just the standard proxes?

.I never said anything about that, I was quoting the review. And the tire tested was a 225/45/17, cheaper than the size you bought. Maybe you should read the review first so you stop sounding lazy ...

[magnetic1]

I never said anything about that, I was quoting the review. And the tire tested was a 225/45/17, cheaper than the size you bought. Maybe you should read the review first so you stop sounding lazy ...

Actually.. the 245s should be around $145-ish + mount/balance.

there are a couple threads in the Track forum about this review.. the latest one being this one:

http://bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=433218

[M3 Pete]

Actually.. the 245s should be around $145-ish + mount/balance.

there are a couple threads in the Track forum about this review.. the latest one being this one:

http://bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?goto=newpost&t=433218that's a link to the Tire & Wheel forum ...

My local dealer quoted me $155 for 245/40/17, plus mounting. He ordered them for me, and I'm debating whether to put them on.

[GGray]

I had SO3's before (three sets) the Hankook's I tried on advice of an autocrosser buddy. They are sticky. and feel much better than the SO3's. Probably will not last long but they are relativly inexpensive. They compete with the Falken Azien 615. I'll be buying anothe set of the Hankook's.

I also checked out there true track tire. They have a tire with three compounds available haard, medium, soft. After using the RS2's I am going to try their track tires out next season.

[mobil1]

I never said anything about that, I was quoting the review. And the tire tested was a 225/45/17, cheaper than the size you bought. Maybe you should read the review first so you stop sounding lazy ...


I read parts of the article before, I must have missed that part. My intentions werent towards insulting you, I was just angry because I thought I got screwed on mine.

I read it completely now and it still seems like an incomplete review that was rushed.

[ScotcH]

So who here has tried the Toyo T1-R? The test ranked it 8 out of 11, and only because it was cheap and had a high treadwear rating. Basically, they said it sucked, which surprised me. A buddy with an M Coupe said they have no grip compared to the Falken Azenis he had on previously.

Anyone here have any experience with teh new T1-R?


The reason it ranked so low is because TireRack does not sell Toyo :)

[M3 Pete]

The reason it ranked so low is because TireRack does not sell Toyo :)but they do sell Kumho's, which came in dead last. Despite such a rating, many of the track guys swear by the MX as a good street/track tire.

[mobil1]

but they do sell Kumho's, which came in dead last. Despite such a rating, many of the track guys swear by the MX as a good street/track tire.


I just got rid of the Kumho. Piece of crap if you ask me.

[SleepRM3]

I'm deliberating between the Conti 2 and PS2 in 235/40-17 (I plan to run 8.5 x 17 M Double Spoke IIs all around).

For street driving (no track/autocross)--Continental Sport Contact 2. At $148 each I don't know of another tire that's cheaper and performs better wet/dry (according to the reviews and opinions)? If there is please tell me.

For a combination of street driving, autocross, and drivers schools--Michelin Pilot Sport 2. At $194 each, the Michs are pricey. I've read mostly positive feedback on these tires, except for M3Pete's review (perhaps a little too much understeer, Mr Pete?).

If I could commit to how I'd use the M3/4, the choice would be easy--Continental Sport Contact 2? But come summer time, it's hard to resist "motorsportin'".

Yet I'm not sure if I want to do ANY motorsports driving with my E36 M3/4. It seems this car is quite needy with preparation for serious track lapping (-3.5 degrees camber, suspension mods, chassis reinforcements, etc.).

Any pundits out there that can help out with a decision? I'd appreciate anyone else's thoughts.

For a little background info--I've had my '97 E36 M3/4 since July 2004, and have never tracked or autocrossed it. It's mostly stock except for Dinan airbox and exhaust. Inspection II has been done recently. Total mileage is 65,500. This spring I plan to replace the original brakes, add a Shark Injector, convert to M50 intake plennum, and replace the crappy ASX Kumho tires.

My motorsport driving experience is extensive--since May 1996 (drivers school and autocross). I've been an instructor for BMW CCA (Badger Bimmers), and PCA (Mid Ohio Region, Central Indiana Region), and SVTOA since 2001. I've been on hiatus from motorsports since Oct 2004.

My last car was a 1993 Mazda Rx7 R1 Twin Turbo heavily modified to make 380 rwhp, 15 psi, 7000 rpm. I ran at the front in A/I group during DEs. The car was prepped as open lapping/daily driver. The suspension mods on that car were springs and sways with only -2 degrees camber (no camber plates needed). I sold the car in Oct 2004 b/c the Mazda proved too delicate (installed 3 motors during my 9-year tenure with it).

[Sammyzuko]

Is there anywhere to still buy the Toyo T1-S? That's what I have now and I love em. From what I've read about the T1-R, it sounds like Toyo has demonstrated that newer isn't always better.

[CABimmer]

This tire test is crap, did you guys take the time to see what they were tested on and what tire pressure the used.

e90 BMW that are built for run flats. The used tire pressures that we would never use. Throw this article in the trash.

[E36M3E]

you will be happy with the Contact 2s. I love mine. but it IS an assymetrical tread pattern! with the same size wheels you could rotate front to rear same-side only.

[SleepRM3]

you will be happy with the Contact 2s. I love mine. but it IS an assymetrical tread pattern! with the same size wheels you could rotate front to rear same-side only.The Sport Contact 2s are asymmetric and NONdirectional, which means you can rotate diagaonally fr/rr. Any specifics on why you like your Sport Contact 2s, besides the price/tire?

[E36M3E]

The Sport Contact 2s are asymmetric and NONdirectional, which means you can rotate diagaonally fr/rr. Any specifics on why you like your Sport Contact 2s, besides the price/tire?

well I guess you could rotate them diagonally but how would that be different then just going front to back same side? the inner tread is still the inner tread.

I only have one other set to compare to - Dunlop Sp9000 in a staggered setup.

my observations - the sidewall is prob too soft for most people but I like the softer ride for the street - for canyon driving I add some pressure and the sidewall stiffens nicely. the tires hold a line much better than the dunlops (but they are nonstaggered too). they are quiet on the street/freeways (no perceptible noise at all). their track is very nice with little to no tramlining at any speed.

the tire dust on the back of car is a bit of pita though...you know, you just wash your car and then you go for a spirited drive thru the canyons, and when you get home you need to wash the rocker panels and the hole rear of the car again!!!

these tires are for sure putting some rubber down. the only thing that would make them better for me would be symetrical tread for inside outside rotation. but I guess the tread pattern is what makes them so sticky so I'll live with it.

[SleepRM3]

With diagonal fr/rr rotation the tires roll in a different direction. The big advantage with nondirectional asymmetric, is that you can rotate your spare into use, at ANY wheel position. Thanks for your review. Have you had any tracktime with the Conti 2s? The $148/tire is very attractive compared with $194/tire Pilot Sport 2? I'm considering 235/40-17 all around on 8.5 x 17 M Double Spoke II wheels. My M3/4 is primarily a weekend cruiser, with infrequent--if any--motorsports use (autocross and DE).

BTW, I see that you're running 245/40-17 on 8.5 M DS II on all four corners. Any rubbing with the front strut tubes, or did you use a 5-mm spacer for the front hubs?

Also how do you like the M50 manifold conversion? How much of the low end torque are you missing? I'm considering this conversion as well.

well I guess you could rotate them diagonally but how would that be different then just going front to back same side? the inner tread is still the inner tread.

I only have one other set to compare to - Dunlop Sp9000 in a staggered setup.

my observations - the sidewall is prob too soft for most people but I like the softer ride for the street - for canyon driving I add some pressure and the sidewall stiffens nicely. the tires hold a line much better than the dunlops (but they are nonstaggered too). they are quiet on the street/freeways (no perceptible noise at all). their track is very nice with little to no tramlining at any speed.

the tire dust on the back of car is a bit of pita though...you know, you just wash your car and then you go for a spirited drive thru the canyons, and when you get home you need to wash the rocker panels and the hole rear of the car again!!!

these tires are for sure putting some rubber down. the only thing that would make them better for me would be symetrical tread for inside outside rotation. but I guess the tread pattern is what makes them so sticky so I'll live with it.

[Impulsed7]

If you have the money, I would say buy the conti's, but if your strapped for cash, get the Fuzion Zri's. I've run them for awhile now and they only suck when its cold. Their dry and wet performance has amazed me when warm. Also at the limits they are very forgiving.

[E36M3E]

With diagonal fr/rr rotation the tires roll in a different direction. The big advantage with nondirectional asymmetric, is that you can rotate your spare into use, at ANY wheel position. Thanks for your review. Have you had any tracktime with the Conti 2s? The $148/tire is very attractive compared with $194/tire Pilot Sport 2? I'm considering 235/40-17 all around on 8.5 x 17 M Double Spoke II wheels. My M3/4 is primarily a weekend cruiser, with infrequent--if any--motorsports use (autocross and DE).

BTW, I see that you're running 245/40-17 on 8.5 M DS II on all four corners. Any rubbing with the front strut tubes, or did you use a 5-mm spacer for the front hubs?

Also how do you like the M50 manifold conversion? How much of the low end torque are you missing? I'm considering this conversion as well.

I don't have an 8.5" spare so I don't rotate the spare in...I don't even cary my spare...wify will bring it to me in that event if required. and I've heard the 8.5" spare doesn't fit very well in the trunk.

you may need a 5mm spacer even with the 235s (if you have stock suspension), as the tread width of the contis 235 is the same as many 245s on the market. I have coilovers designed for swapped strut bearings that creates more space up front for the wider tires and wheels. no rubbing (NO SPACERS) with only about 3-4mm clearance on the spring perch. I had to adjust the location of the brake line mount on the right side(about 4-5mm).

I love the M50 mani almost as much as love my suspension and wheels/tires. the torque peak is not reduced, just moved over about 300rpm...so I guess if you compared an RPM to an RPM you could say there was a loss of torque but your driving style will adjust to the new location quickly. The increased power in the 4-7k range is worth the relocation of the torque curve.

I have yet to track my car but the way it is set up I think it is ready for a the occasional DE. I was going to go to Button Willow this weekend for the Redline Fluids DE but its raining. Maybe tomorrow though.

Little long winded, but it is saturday and it's raining here.

[SleepRM3]

Not long-winded at all. Great info. Thanks for elaborating. I wondered about the width of the Contis in 235/40-17. The Pilot Sports are 9.5 in wide x 24.4 in tall; the Conti 2s are 9.7 in wide x 24.3 in tall (both measured on an 8.5 wide rim). I may just get 5-mm spacers for the fronts and run 245/40-17s all around. I would like a little more sidewall cushion, and the thought of a lower sidewall profile with the 235/40-17s will make for a stiffer ride. Any suggestions for 5-mm spacers that will work with stock M3 Double Spoke IIs?? I'm told the 8.5 fits in the spare tire well, but it does stick up a little. That's worth it for me, to have a spare that's accessible. Did you get the Eurosport M50 conversion kit? I plan to get the Shark injector for a little more juice.
I don't have an 8.5" spare so I don't rotate the spare in...I don't even cary my spare...wify will bring it to me in that event if required. and I've heard the 8.5" spare doesn't fit very well in the trunk. You may need a 5mm spacer even with the 235s (if you have stock suspension), as the tread width of the contis 235 is the same as many 245s on the market. I have coilovers designed for swapped strut bearings that creates more space up front for the wider tires and wheels. no rubbing (NO SPACERS) with only about 3-4mm clearance on the spring perch. I had to adjust the location of the brake line mount on the right side(about 4-5mm).

I love the M50 mani almost as much as love my suspension and wheels/tires. the torque peak is not reduced, just moved over about 300rpm...so I guess if you compared an RPM to an RPM you could say there was a loss of torque but your driving style will adjust to the new location quickly. The increased power in the 4-7k range is worth the relocation of the torque curve.

I have yet to track my car but the way it is set up I think it is ready for a the occasional DE. I was going to go to Button Willow this weekend for the Redline Fluids DE but its raining. Maybe tomorrow though.

Little long winded, but it is saturday and it's raining here.

[E36M3E]

I did not buy the Eurosport M50 kit. I'm prob the only one who will tell you to do it yourself and save the cash. it is a major PITA but the fitment is eventually better and more reliable then the adapter kit (so I've heard).

I'll prob get flamed for this by people saying "How could it be better?" and the answer to that is that I really don't know that it is...it's just what I've heard. and I know that all the fiddling and fitment I went through will ensure no collapsed vac lines and or leaks.

it took me about 8 hours of tinkering to get everythinbg to fit under there perfectly.

I don't know anything about wheel spacers except that you need hubcentric spacers and that with a 5mm spacer your OEM lug bolts should be still JUST long enough. but don't quote me on that.

why don't you buy these perfectly newly refinished DSIIs off me. they are 7.5s and you won't need spacers and your spare will fit just fine. hehe.

[SleepRM3]

Hmm, perhaps I'll start with the Shark Injector first, and see how much additional power there is with the reflash program (I have a '97 M3/4 that came with a
Dinan airbox and exhaust)? Thanks for the info on spacers. I need to swap my rears up front and see if there's any rubbing. It seems half the people say there's none, and the other half says there is, so there must be car-to-car variation in clearance? I have three 7.5 DSIIs I'm trying to trade for two more 8.5s LOL :)
I did not buy the Eurosport M50 kit. I'm prob the only one who will tell you to do it yourself and save the cash. it is a major PITA but the fitment is eventually better and more reliable then the adapter kit (so I've heard).

I'll prob get flamed for this by people saying "How could it be better?" and the answer to that is that I really don't know that it is...it's just what I've heard. and I know that all the fiddling and fitment I went through will ensure no collapsed vac lines and or leaks.

it took me about 8 hours of tinkering to get everythinbg to fit under there perfectly.

I don't know anything about wheel spacers except that you need hubcentric spacers and that with a 5mm spacer your OEM lug bolts should be still JUST long enough. but don't quote me on that.

why don't you buy these perfectly newly refinished DSIIs off me. they are 7.5s and you won't need spacers and your spare will fit just fine. hehe.

[mochafrap]

I smell booooolshit in this test

[salty]

I have 1,500 miles on my Toyo T1-R, after finishing off a set of S0-3's. I like them overall. They are smooth , quiet and the steering is nice. They were greasy when new as someone else pointed out. They don't seem to flat spot when sitting for a few weeks.

I have not pushed them to hooligan levels, so cannot comment on ultimate grip.

[DarkVader]

Why in the world did they grab the RE050 from Bridgestone instead of the S03?!? This doesn't make any sense when the test is purely 'high performance' tires. I really wish the S03 was tested to see how it stackes up.

OT nice sig man...