Is BMW the only "pure" car co left?

[Mini4x]

SAAB/GM/Subie/Toyota/Suzuki

Ford/Volvo/Madza

DamlierBenz/Mitsubishi


BMW?

Nissan? They aren't infected yet either?

Discuss?

[TC535i]

BMW/Mini (used to own Rover)

Nissan/Infiniti

[Mini4x]

DOH.. I fogot.. pOOp.

[Tony@Bekkers]

BMW/Mini

Nissan/Infiniti

Damn you TC, you barely beat me that time!

[Steph328]

I have no idea what you're trying to say but Nissan and Infiniti are similar to Toyota and Lexus as far as branding/production... but again, I have no idea what you're doing with all the slashes and question marks.

[TC535i]

DOH.. I fogot.. pOOp.

Mini's even in your name... shame

[AdotOdot4]

koenigsegg

[TC535i]

Damn you TC, you barely beat me that time!

It's this sweet new optical mouse I got. Lets me cruise bimmerforums at warp speed. :alright

[Mini4x]

Mini's even in your name... shame

selfpwn3d

Mini4x very old SN.. related to small 4wd trucks aka Suzuki samurai, before the new 'Mini' hit the street.

[Hugo]

Nissan is owned largely by Renault.

And BMW DID (does?) buy GM trannies. Eeewwww...

[TrunkImpaired]

Lotus.

And wtf do you mean by pure? IMO bmw has not stuck to it's roots. Sure the new m5 and m6 are badass, but for the money they better be. and the new 3 is a porker.

[MPD47]

Nissan/Infinity/Renault

Porsche now owns 20% of VW (which in turn owns Audi, Lambo, Bentley, Seat, Skoda)

[Mini4x]

It's this sweet new optical mouse I got. Lets me cruise bimmerforums at warp speed. :alright

Logitech G7

[ecangian]

And don't forget about Bentley and Rolls Royce

[Makr]

Honda is self-owned.

[bimmerboi330]

Rolls Royce, has anyone forgetten BMW owns a nice piece of them.

[TC535i]

Logitech G7

BTC. It was $1.99. :alright

[Mini4x]

this thread sucks, sorry.

I guess in my mind BMW seems more "pure" Ok so bentley/mini etc. (why british?) But, you don't see Mini made cars with BMW badges being sold as BMW's. Like GM rebaging everything, heck they even rebadge Subarus and sell then as SAABs..

[MPD47]

And don't forget about Bentley and Rolls Royce

Those are Seperate, BMW has a stake in Rolls, VW got Bentley.

[roberttran]

Lotus I beleive is independent

[tkavan01]

isn't hyundai?
but thats basically state owned isn't it?

[B.Watts]

Ferrari

[NickM3]

Lotus is owned by Proton.

[NickM3]

Ferrari

In terms of cars, I'd say yes Ferrari is quite independant from Fiat Group. But in terms of ownership they're still under Fiat Group wing. Although there are rumors that Ferrari might go public.

[Juicy Double]

BMW/Mini (used to own Rover)

Nissan/Infiniti

Rover was ownership, not merger (as you pointed out). Only a merger taints the ''pureness''. That's why mini's existence doesn't change this.

[Taiko]

TVR is still independent, and make all their own parts including engines, as far as I know. Lotus is still independent, but they use Toyota engines in the new Elise if you're counting that.

[percious]

Subaru?

-percious

[MPD47]

Saaburu?

Aka GM.

[Bimmer325]

Lamborghini?

[Bimmer325]

nevermind, porsche got it i guess.

[biggafigga]

I wouldn't say that Nissan and Infiniti are 2 dif companies. As Steph328 pointed out, it's a marketing thing. Honda/Acura, Nissan/Infiniti, Toyota/Lexus.

From a business standpoint, isn't it better to combine a little, so you can share knowledge and cut down on costs in production?

[Future M]

nevermind, porsche got it i guess.

Actually it is VW, not Porsche

[Croak]

Well, if you go by the merger bit, than both GM and Ford are still pure as well...they just own the others outright or have a very large stake in their affiliate companies. And I wouldn't count joint ventures, like GM/Toyota.

[banndit]

Lotus gets passed around like a cheerleader on prom night, they've been owned by GM, Fiat, who else?
B

[Gop-Dogg]

TVR is now owned by the Russian mafia
I think Lotus is still owned by Proton
Lambo, Audi, Bugatti, Seat, Skoda, Bentley are owned by VW
Maseratti is owned by Ferrari which is, in turn, owned by Fiat
I believe Renault has a heavy stake in Nissan
BMW has their fingers in Rolls Royce
The Mini brand is owned by BMW
Volvo, Jaguar are owned by Ford
Saab is owned by GM

Toyota/Lexus, Nissan/Infinity, Honda/Acura don't count as these are subdivisions of the same company, not merger/buy-outs

[6i9]

If we're talking about companies being owned by larger subsidiaries, then this is how companies are laid out right now:

BMW owns Rolls Royce, MINI, BMW

DaimlerChrysler owns Chrysler, Mercedes-Benz, Maybach, Smart, Jeep, Dodge, and part of Mitsubishi, Hyundai, Kia

Ford owns Ford, Lincoln, Mercury, Mazda, Volvo, Jaguar, Land Rover, Aston Martin

General Motors owns GMC, Chevrolet, Buick, Cadillac, Hummer, Pontiac, Saab, Saturn, Oldsmobile, Holden, Opel, Vauxhall, parts of Suzuki, Subaru, Isuzu, Daewoo

Volkswagen owns Audi, VW, Lamborghini, Bentley, Bugatti, Skoda, SEAT

Fiat owns Fiat, Ferrari, Maserati, Alfa Romeo, Lancia

Porsche is by itself.

Toyota owns Lexus, Scion, Toyota, Daihatsu, part of Subaru/Fuji Heavy Ind.

Honda owns Honda, Acura

Renault owns Nissan, Infiniti

Peugeot-Citroen owns Peugeot, and Citroen

Proton owns Lotus and Proton

I think that about covers it, except for smaller companies like TVR, Pagani, etc.

[Matt P.]

Porsche is the only pure breed big dog top pitbull

[DEUTSCH STOLZ]

and porsche was smart to buy shares of vw group, this way if they fall on hard times and some shit company like ford or gm comes to buy them and fuck them up they can sell there shares and still stay independant.

[Lohe]

Nissan is owned largely by Renault.

And BMW DID (does?) buy GM trannies. Eeewwww...


Did but they are not true GM trannies ( and only autos) They are any tranny numbers that end with a R like a A5S 360R

A= Auto
5= number of forward gears
S= Top gear overdrive
360= Max tq input rating in NM
R= (manufacturer) hydramatic

(z= ZF or Zahnradfabrik Friedrichshafen)
(G= getrag)

Hydramatic: A french supplier of BMW auto trans. Hydramatic is a manufacturing divsion of Genral Motors Powertrain.

ZF and Getrag or both german suppliers and Getrag ONLY makes manuals ( they made the Euro e36 6speed and ZF makes the US 5 speed)



O and BMW is still not a pubilcy traded it is one of the few still " family owned"

[palomino]

O and BMW is still not a pubilcy traded it is one of the few still " family owned"
I thought the Quandt family only owned 49% or 51% of the company.

[6i9]

I thought the Quandt family only owned 49% or 51% of the company.

More than enough that basically everything needs to be OK'd by the Quandts.

[PrinceE30]

In terms of cars, I'd say yes Ferrari is quite independant from Fiat Group. But in terms of ownership they're still under Fiat Group wing. Although there are rumors that Ferrari might go public.

However, Masaratti is insteeped in the workings of Ferrari's engineering team.

I'll say this about BMW. BMW and Mini share no part of the market segment.

-Prince

[325xi]

(G= getrag)


Getrag makes some transmissions for GM, don't they? I'm pretty sure the 6-spd in the Caddy CTS-V is a Getrag.

[sachin528]

Lotus I beleive is independent


There are 3 independent car companies

Porsche
BMW
Honda (though Acura is a division of Honda)

All other companies are either owned by a bigger conglomerate or the main company - no one person or family owns 50% of the shares.

[Lohe]

Getrag makes some transmissions for GM, don't they? I'm pretty sure the 6-spd in the Caddy CTS-V is a Getrag.


Getrag makes alot of 6 speeds out there...

I know they make the 5 speed in My Dodge 5.9L ******** turbo D. So it would not surprize me if it is in that caddy but I dont know for sure mostly know BMW's ;)

[Rakshas]

Getrag also made the 6-speed for GT-R syklines, and maybe the supra box.

I can't think of a really pure company that isn't owned by anyone or owns anyone else, maybe a small brand like Spyker or Pagani, but nothing of any real importance.

[kendogg]

What is the deal with subaru ownership? I was under the impression that GM only owned a mere 20% of subaru, thast why subaru's haven't been destroyed yet, like everythign else GM has bought into. The Saab 92x, yes, is a WRX with Saab badging on. But, I do not beleive Gm has ANY say in what goes on at subaru. If so, then it is very little. No way GM would allow great cars like the STi to be built, etc.

[banndit]

My ZR-1 had a ZF six speed in it, which weighed more than my 325 does.

:D

[NickM3]

No way GM would allow great cars like the STi to be built, etc.

They build the corvette, why wouldn't they want the STi built?

[ecangian]

GM sold Subaru to Toyota Read here (http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2005/gm_toyota_saab.html) if ya don't believe me

[Lohe]

I thought the Quandt family only owned 49% or 51% of the company.


hmm I think you might be right cant rember now.... I know it is 51% or more.... still they "own" it and you cant buy stock in it.... :(

[seven217]

Maybe I am misinformed. German's own Cadillac now , right?
German=BMW,Audi,VW,Lambo,Merc,Porsche,Volvo,Cadill ac,???

[J37X]

Havent heard that about Cadillac, maybe your thinking of something else?
And i thought VW owned part of Porsche ?

[Bimmer325]

Caddy is GM still i believe.

[BlackChrome]

Maybe I am misinformed. German's own Cadillac now , right?
German=BMW,Audi,VW,Lambo,Merc,Porsche,Volvo,Cadill ac,???
Nope, Cadillac is part of GM.

[sadkorean34]

bmw.

[BimwadM42]

There are 3 independent car companies

Porsche
BMW
Honda (though Acura is a division of Honda)

All other companies are either owned by a bigger conglomerate or the main company - no one person or family owns 50% of the shares.

Ah, somebody who understands, despite the somewhat nebulous parameter given by the OP. These three are the only remaining independent major automakers.

All the talk about GM trannies and such is somewhat irrelevant; cross-supply, joint-ventures, and cooperation is nothing new, and doesn't affect the "purity" of a business entity.

BMW does not own Rolls-Royce. R-R owns R-R, and has licensed BMW to make automobiles under the R-R nameplate. That's how the split with Bentley came about -- R-R didn't want VW making R-R cars, so they yanked the rights and gave them to BMW.

Plus, there is an important distinction with shares of ownership -- there are different types, and not all shares confer voting rights or any measure of control upon the shareholder. Depending on the corporate structure, a majority share is not required to hold control.

[B5BAR]

Saaburu?

Aka GM.

I believe they recently sold their stock in Subaru.

anyone else see this? or have I been reading corrupt RSS feeds again :help

Farboud - Granted they are a small shop, and buy Audi parts but I believe it is a private company.
Spyker - Again they buy Audi engines, but still worth a mention
RUF - Independent of Porsche in the organizational sense, but still worth a mention.

[DMZ]

Dude, wake up! GM makes some of the best automatic transmission in the industries. BMW does not make any transmission at all, they are all sourced from either ZF of Getrag.


Nissan is owned largely by Renault.

And BMW DID (does?) buy GM trannies. Eeewwww...

[Shoe Coupe]

Damn you TC, you barely beat me that time!

Renault/Nissan/Infiniti

[ecangian]

I believe they recently sold their stock in Subaru.

anyone else see this? or have I been reading corrupt RSS feeds again :help

Farboud - Granted they are a small shop, and buy Audi parts but I believe it is a private company.
Spyker - Again they buy Audi engines, but still worth a mention
RUF - Independent of Porsche in the organizational sense, but still worth a mention.

Yeah I posted the link on the bottom of page 2...

[IchLiebeBMW]

In my opinion, Porshe is right up there with BMW if not farther. Audi is also making some pretty awsome cars nowdays. Mercedes makes great horsepower, but they havent quite got the handeling down. MINIs are awsome little cars, they are FWD but allot of fun non the less. And of coarse you got your italian cars too. So id say there are several other great cars out there, but BMW makes them them in a somewhat affordable range.

[übermäßig M3]

Wow, I just read through 3 pages and nobody mentioned YUGO!!!

Only the greatest car EVER!!!

///Marco

[metale]

IMO, BMW isn't that pure anymore. Even tho I love the looks of the 1 series, I don't think it belongs on this car brand.

There is too much electronic nowadays (but that is on every car brand tho).
And both car designers and buyeurs are going too much for the looks (and ugly looks IMO). Round cars, curves, strange headlights.

I'll crawl back to my hole now...

[patrickrolfsen]

Lotus.

And wtf do you mean by pure? IMO bmw has not stuck to it's roots. Sure the new m5 and m6 are badass, but for the money they better be. and the new 3 is a porker.
have you seen the pics for the next X5... im very dissapointed, looks like utter crap

[metale]

I think they should like reissue the E30 or E36, with updated materials, and solved bugs (subframes, RSMs, etc). That would be great, but I don't think that will happen.

All I need is a great chassis and a good suspension, not all the gadgets and looks they shove into today's cars :confused

[Future M]

Havent heard that about Cadillac, maybe your thinking of something else?
And i thought VW owned part of Porsche ?


GM still owns Cadillac and Porsche I believe bought a part of VW. Porsche is still independent.

[metale]

Porsche I believe bought a part of VW. Porsche is still independent.

True.

[ecangian]

Donkervoort (http://www.donkervoort.nl/)

Bristol (http://www.bristolcars.co.uk/index2.htm)

Lotec (http://www.lotec-gmbh.de/seiten/)

Pagani (http://www.paganiautomobili.it/english/home.htm)