Give me some info please

[rhino5]

OK, i love my e30 325i. My brother who is now 15 and smart as hell in school and is in everything under the sun wants to get a mini when he gets his licence in 17 months. How much is he/I looking at b/c i might have him buy a body and I'll drop an engine in it. Give me some ideas, keep in mind we're looking to stay as cheap as possible, thanks guys.

brent

[banndit]

?

what year MINI are you looking at getting?
B

[Koopah]

First decision: MINI Cooper or MINI Cooper S

The MC and MCS share many things, both mechanically and "spiritually". However, the MC is less powerful and rides a bit softer. The MCS has a great engine and has breath-taking handling with the optional sports package. Some feel ride is a little too harsh. The MC gets better gas mileage.

Typically, an MCS will cost about 20% more than an MC. The base price for the 2006 models have the MC pegged at $18,500 and the MCS at $21,150; this is before you add options. Note that both these prices reflect the manual gearbox.

Second decision: New or Used

From 2004 on, the MINI has shown excellent reliability. Previous years were good, but there were a few issues that finally got resolved in 2004. So, if you are looking at a used MINI, I would focus on 2004 or 2005 model years. The 2005s may be too new, command higher prices that the 2004s. However for 2005, the MCS model got a very modest increase in HP but was given a really nice gearbox that allows one to squeeze-out every ounce of HP in the engine.

If you are considering a new MINI, bear in mind that the 2007 model year will bring what appears to be modest body restyling and a brand new engine (turbo vs. supercharged). Depending on the reception this new model gets, you may find the value of your 2006 to be affected fairly quickly.

You should check the used MINI prices in your area, since there is some geographical variance in used MINI prices.

My Personal Opinion (FWIW):

The MINI (especially the MCS) is a driver's car. The more experience you have in driving a FWD pocket-rocket, the more you appreciate its design. On rare occaisions, a very inexperienced driver can get into trouble with this car...particularly if it is an MCS without the DSC option.

My MCS was driven by a 17 year old, a 21 year old and my better half. I decided on ordering the DSC option to help avert any potential problem situations. When I climb-in, I simply turn DSC off.

All things considered (finances and experience), I would recommend the following:

- At the performance-oriented end of the spectrum, a 2004 MCS with DSC as a first MINI. This would have to be a manual gearbox.

- At the other end of the spectrum would be the economy/performance blend of a manual gearbox MC with the sports suspension option. The 2004 MC is also available with an automatic gearbox.

However, you and your brother should test drive various used models/configurations to make your decision. In the end, it's not what other people think but how you (your brother) feel about the car.

Hope this helps...

Theo

[rhino5]

wow, thats helps alot, thanks

um, idk how much we're going to put into this car... im just doing research on it right now, probably be getting a used 2004 by the sounds of it.

[MandaBoo]

Also, be aware that the prices of used MINI's are still rather high as they hold their value very well. But be mindful that if you are patient and you don't limit yourself to one place geographically (be willing to drive a couple hours, plus its good that you aren't in California) it is possible to find a good deal on a used MINI. So, when you guys start to seriously look at the price, don't get too discouraged if you can't find what you want right away

[rhino5]

thats exactly why im starting to look now, he doesnt get his licence for another year and a half. Yeah, im gonna have alot of ppl keep an eye out for me in other states to see what comes up, even if we could find a wrecked one for super cheap and fix it back up, that'd be good. my brother is really smart for his age and tends to be rather technical and a bit of a nut when it comes to details (ask him anything about WWII, he'll know it) and im really good mechanically and can figure stuff out rather quick. we'll make a good team if we can find something that's salvagable. thanks for the input guys.

[seewinnerslist]

Just for a small correction, Sports package on a MCS does not make the car handle any better.... as previously stated,"The MCS has a great engine and has breath-taking handling with the optional sports package." Sports package does not change the suspension at all on the MCS however it does add DSC. When you add sport pack on a MC it adds sport suspension but that comes standard on the MCS.

[seewinnerslist]

Oh, and one more thing... try to get an 05 if possible because they regeared the MCS and it feels much faster. If you get lucky, LSD is an option from 05 on and that makes a huge difference too and its only a $500 option from the factory. Much more if you try to do it aftermarket especially in the install. You have to drop the sub frame to install it.=$$

[Koopah]

Just for a small correction, Sports package on a MCS does not make the car handle any better.... as previously stated,"The MCS has a great engine and has breath-taking handling with the optional sports package." Sports package does not change the suspension at all on the MCS however it does add DSC. When you add sport pack on a MC it adds sport suspension but that comes standard on the MCS.

Sorry, I should have clarified that the sports package on the MCS offers the 17" wheels (S-Lites) with lower profile/wider performance tires and not a difference in suspension. However, some prefer the 16" (X-Lites) for their slightly softer ride and their lighter weight.

Theo

[TMMZ Doug]

The MCS is not a DRIVER's Car any more than the MC is.

It's biased misinformation like that... that leads to unhappy owners.

Both are "Driver's" Car's, equally.

Some cases, the MC will out perform the MCS.

Anyhow... It's not the car that makes the driver... it's the driver that makes the driver.

[MandaBoo]

Some cases, the MC will out perform the MCS.
Other than things like gas mileage, what are the cases you are referring to?

[Koopah]

The MCS is not a DRIVER's Car any more than the MC is.
It's biased misinformation like that... that leads to unhappy owners.
Both are "Driver's" Car's, equally.
Some cases, the MC will out perform the MCS.
Anyhow... It's not the car that makes the driver... it's the driver that makes the driver.

Point well-taken Doug!

However, note that this statement was in the section of my post labelled "My Personal Opinion (FWIW)". And it is just that - my personal opinion: an opinion developed after driving both the MC and MCS we own and after SCCA autocrossing in FWD cars during the last 26 years.

To support your "driver makes the driver" statement, IT IS MY OPINION that the more polished you are as a driver, the more you can squeeze out of an MC. This would involve knowing the correct upshift/downshift rpm-points to make sure the engine remains in the peak torque range as much a possible. In addition, knowing the limits of the vehicle's handling is also important; this is especially true of the FWD platform. This knowledge of vehicle dynamics and the analytical ability to determine the correct line on a track for your specific vehicle's capabilities is extremely important. Note that all of this depends not on hardware/software, but "grayware"...what's in the brain.

And once those things (to some extent or another) are in your brain, you begin to appreciate the finer aspects of any car's designed capabilities. It is from that reference point that one might think a particular car *feels* more like a "driver's car".

And, to add a final note of support to Doug's post, I know several accomplished drivers who I'll bet could pop into an MC and beat the snot out of an average MCS driver on a tight autox course.

Theo

[TMMZ Doug]

Yes!

Anyhow, we had a MONSTER of a Stock NA MC, with some great suspension mods compliments of Ireland Engineering KILL at Buttonwillow.

The MC can perform just as well or even better than a MCS on a tight mountain pass, in an AutoX, off the line, and more.

It's a lot "Better than thou" attitude from MCS owners that make the MC owner envious.

I've driven both.

Of course there are a lot more power mods available for the MCS than the MC.
Some people confuse going fast with performance.
We've seen the MC as a very compitant and competative car in comparison to the MCS.

It all boils down to three things when deciding on one or the other...

1) Budget
2) Goals
3) Style

As for the style... In My opinion... The MCS Scooped hood looks like poo to me when compared to the sleek and agressivly clean hood of the MC.

[TMMZ Doug]

And to return to the topic...



OK, i love my e30 325i. My brother who is now 15 and smart as hell in school and is in everything under the sun wants to get a mini when he gets his licence in 17 months. How much is he/I looking at b/c i might have him buy a body and I'll drop an engine in it. Give me some ideas, keep in mind we're looking to stay as cheap as possible, thanks guys.
brent

If you're looking for cheap, get on an auction list.
Buy used at dealer purchase pricing.
I don't know if it's worth the hassle of buying a shell and dropping a heart into it. I just don't know the answer to that.

Or, if he has a job and makes near $400 or more per month, set him up with a finance plan and buy new.
New will offer him the experience and joy of OWNERSHIP, teach him the value of a dollar, keep him in line and responsible (not to say he's not by any means), make him the envy of his pals, and this will also carry the warranty with it (which is important with your first car...if you can afford it)

If you buy used, don't let the KBB gouge you. The REAL Value of any MINI being sold private party is probably $3-$k less than the asking price.

I've seen $16k valued MC's go for $11K!!!

So be vigilant when buying.

If you have any further queries, you can always look towards the internet and visit my guys at TEAMMIGHTYMINIZ dot com and of course Good Luck...

[rhino5]

And to return to the topic...
If you're looking for cheap, get on an auction list.
Buy used at dealer purchase pricing.
I don't know if it's worth the hassle of buying a shell and dropping a heart into it. I just don't know the answer to that.
Or, if he has a job and makes near $400 or more per month, set him up with a finance plan and buy new.
New will offer him the experience and joy of OWNERSHIP, teach him the value of a dollar, keep him in line and responsible (not to say he's not by any means), make him the envy of his pals, and this will also carry the warranty with it (which is important with your first car...if you can afford it)
If you buy used, don't let the KBB gouge you. The REAL Value of any MINI being sold private party is probably $3-$k less than the asking price.
I've seen $16k valued MC's go for $11K!!!
So be vigilant when buying.
If you have any further queries, you can always look towards the internet and visit my guys at TEAMMIGHTYMINIZ dot com and of course Good Luck...


my brother is trying to find a job now (keep in mind he's only 15, so its gonna be 1.5 years before he'll have his licence anyways), but we live in north east PA, which minimum wage is about the best you can do if you're under 18. but he might start working for my grandfather for a little more than that, and have a good amount of hrs. I think buying new and financing might be the way to go esp with a warranty.

thanks

[TMMZ Doug]

No Problem.

Please come check out some heavy MINI topics on TEAMMIGHTYMINIZ dot com and get to know the MINI. He may or may not change his mind.

Information is vast and excessive. There's a lot of opinions out there and it's always good to form your own based on tech, fact and opinions from various other owners out there.

We have some members near you and it's quite possible you and your brother could meet them and they can help answer many of your questions.