Synthetic Engine Oil - I've made my choice!

[Bob ///M3]

(This is another post that was made as a follow up to the two part engine oil study.)

After analyzing all the data and discussing different oil properties and related subjects (that were not part of my "oil study") with some of the enginners at a few of the oil companies, I have made up my mind which oil I will be using in the M3.
My viscosity grade choices were the 0W-30, 5W-30, 5W-40, 10W-30 and 10W-40 oils. My "short list" choice of product manufacturers were Amsoil, Redline and Mobil.

I have elected to use Amsoil's 0W-30 oil.

The reasons for my choice are many.

In discussions with Mr. Darren Wallace (Technical Design Engineer and Chemist) of Amsoil Company, he suggested strongly I use the 0W-30 in the M3 for street and track. His suggestion rather suprised me! I asked him, "track too" and he said "most definitely." I will only lightly attempt to explain why he made his suggestion to me.

He explained that BMW engines, as are most others, had very tight engine tolerances for their bearings, etc. He said using the Amsoil 0W-30 would protect these bearings (and the entire engine) better than ANY 30 weight grade oil they have ever tested, including their other 30 weight multi-vis grade oils they offer. The anti-wear additive package for this 0W-30 oil, he said, is simply the best they have ever seen! The chemical make-up of the other Amsoil oils don't allow this same anti-wear package to be used. He also explained this particular oil is better at dealing with the contaminents (hydrocarbons left from combustion), dirt and corrosion, etc. than the other oils.

He said using the 0W-30 would offer unheard of protection at dry start-up where the anti-wear properties, only found in Amsoil's 0W-30, would virtually eliminate the metal-on-metal damage incurred when first cranking up an engine. He further explained that damage results whenever an engine is first cranked up, even if the ambient temperature is 100 degrees F.

There is much more to the anti-wear abilities of this "one oil" but I won't attempt to even try to cover it all. He did admit that no other oil that they have in their line of products, as good as they all are, has the characteristics, properties, abilities, traits and technology that the 0W-30 does. In fact, the way he put it was, "the Amsoil 0W-30 could be five years ahead of the competition!"

He also added that all 0W oils are more expensive to produce and this is the reason most other synthetic oil producers don't offer 0W oils. In the future, he said, this will change in his opinion.

Mr. Wallace further said that this oil is highly recommended not only for street use in the M3 but also in the most demanding and continous high rpm, high temperature, high abuse conditions! He explained many SCCA entries (and other forms of racing) are using it. And that the oil's film-strength, shear/tear properties, anti-wiping protection, lubricating ability, engine cooling, etc. are the best.

Keep in mind that the second number of an oil's viscosity grade (30 in this case) is the steady weight of the oil when at 100 degrees C (212 degrees F) and it compares with any other 30 weight grade oil, in thickness, regardless whether it's a 0W-30, 5W-30 or 10W-30. This is a A.S.E standard test which must be passed to be called a particular viscosity grade oil. (Don't let the "0W" verses the more common 5W or 10W confuse you.) This particular oil's ability to remain a 30 weight oil in very abusive engine temperatures at well over 150 degrees C (302 degrees F) allows it to be a strong and safe oil for street, strip and track.

He explained that using a heavier weight oil is not necessary or desired "unless" the engine is built losely (with wide bearing tolerances) which BMW's engine's are not. Also, he stated that car manufacturer's recommendations for using a heavier "petroleum" based oil such as 15W-40 or 15W-50 was only recommended because of the protection those petroleum weight oils could offer. Using lighter synthetic oils in lieu of hevier petroleum based oils offers "more" engine protection while also offering better wear protection too. It's a win-win situation.

Anyway, for those who have asked me about which oil I intend on using in my M3, I have made my choice!

Bob <font color="1E90FF">/</font><font color="7D26CD">/</font><font color="red">/</font><b><font color="gray">M3</font></b>

[Gluall@aol.com]

<html>

</html>

Wow! Great report as usual, im very impressed!

are you certain that you arent getting a commission for sales on Amsoil oil?..j/k

[Kevlar]

Part #1
http://self.phpwebhosting.com/~bimmer/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=413

Part #2
http://self.phpwebhosting.com/~bimmer/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=414

[M3D]

Bob I've been using Mobil 1 15W50, I wonder how bad this has been when temps go to 26 degrees?

[Bob ///M3]

A low ambient temperature causes any oil to be slower to reach all parts of the engine as most wear is caused at crank-up. I wouldn't be concerned about the wear but your owner's manual recommends a lower first number oil be used in colder climates.

Bob <font color="1E90FF">/</font><font color="7D26CD">/</font><font color="red">/</font><b><font color="gray">M3</font></b>

[MMMike]

I hbought my 97 M3 with 48,000 miles. When I took it in for it's first oil change I talked to the mechanic about using synthetic vs petroleum oil. I was leaning towards synthetic based on what I'd read in several forums, but the mechanic said if the car has been running petroleum for this long it could cause problems since synthetic is thinner. Bob, you seem to be very well versed on this subject, do you have any input? Thanks!

[M3 Pete]

It is $8.10 per quart. That is over $56 per oil change, just for the oil!

Even in a four-gallon case, it still costs $7.50 per quart! A 55-gallon drum is still over $6 per quart. Are there discount sources?

[Kevlar]

Yes AMSOil is pricey... but look at it this way. You get what you pay for.

The 0W-30 blend requires alot more to produce (hence the higher price). I get the quarts for about $7.50 I believe... I'd have to check my pricing guide.

If you want to go with a cheaper blend, you can get the 5W-30 synthetic which I believe sells for $5.50 a quart.

I'm an AMSOIL dealer.

Persoanlly, I spend the extra cash and use the 0W-30.

It helps my car extremely during cold start up, I no longer hear valve ticking in the mornings or when I start the car up from sitting for a while.

[C.Yang]

Wheres that damn music coming from?!?

[Bob ///M3]

Comments like the one you were given are commonplace. The only justification "not" to change to synthetic engine oil would be in an engine with many, many miles (far more than you have) that has become gunked up and coated with varnishes, etc.

The thoughts are that an engine such as this would release the gunk and contaminates that have built up over the years and put them into the engine's oil. Synthetic oil has natural detergents that will break this stuff up and could cause clogged lifters, oiling holes and the oil filter. Of course the engine would have to be one that was extremely dirty and not well taken care of. Also, it must be said that valve cover gaskets, etc. that have had a thick coating of gunk over its recent life may produce a leak when the gunk is slowly removed by using a synthetic engine oil.

And before you ask if using a 0W-30 synthetic engine oil will cause any leaks due to its lightweight first number (0W), the answer is absolutely no! The reason is because when the engine reaches it normal operating temperature even a 50 weight (top number) oil is thinner than a 0W (bottom number) oil when cool. That's why when you see hot oil being drained it is always much thinner than the lightest weight oils when cool. If you don't have any leaks now and your engine has been taken care of with frequent oil and filter changes you shouldn't have any problem switching to synthetic.

Bob <font color="1E90FF">/</font><font color="7D26CD">/</font><font color="red">/</font><b><font color="gray">M3</font></b>




Originally posted by MMMike
I hbought my 97 M3 with 48,000 miles. When I took it in for it's first oil change I talked to the mechanic about using synthetic vs petroleum oil. I was leaning towards synthetic based on what I'd read in several forums, but the mechanic said if the car has been running petroleum for this long it could cause problems since synthetic is thinner. Bob, you seem to be very well versed on this subject, do you have any input? Thanks!

[S--K]

Bob,

Any opinions on Mobil1 0W-30, if there is such a beast?

That stuff more readily available for me.

Thanks.

[jaramill]

I just purchased Mobil 1 Tri-Synthetic 10W-30 oil but when I got it shipped they (Autobarn.com) screwed up my order and sent me regular oil. Now I'm having them take back the wrong product and ship me the right one. My question is: Being that I live in Southern California (where it rarely drops below 40 F), should I change it to 0W-30? Or is the 0W-30 only for climates with extreme colder temperatures?

Thanks,
Gio

P.S. - Does anyone know where on the web (or a real brick and mortar store) where I can purchase AMSOIL 0W-30?

[Bob ///M3]

Yes, Mobil makes a 0W-30. In fact I use it in my '97 Toyota Camry however I use Amsoil 0W-30 in my '99 M3 and '00 328i.

Bob <font color="1E90FF">/</font><font color="7D26CD">/</font><font color="red">/</font><b><font color="gray">M3</font></b>




Originally posted by S--K
Bob,

Any opinions on Mobil1 0W-30, if there is such a beast?

That stuff more readily available for me.

Thanks.

[Bob ///M3]

Gio, 0W-30 synthetic engine oil can be used anywhere from the North Pole to the Equator. The "30" is the weight of the oil when at 100 degrees C (212 F), not the "0". A 0W-30 will be the same weight as a 10W-30 when hot!

I would check the phone book (yellow pages) under "Oil" to see if anyone local to you is an Amsoil dealer. Most large cities have a few listed. If not, Kevlar and a few others here are dealers.

Bob <font color="1E90FF">/</font><font color="7D26CD">/</font><font color="red">/</font><b><font color="gray">M3</font></b>




Originally posted by jaramill
My question is: Being that I live in Southern California (where it rarely drops below 40 F), should I change it to 0W-30? Or is the 0W-30 only for climates with extreme colder temperatures?

Thanks,
Gio

P.S. - Does anyone know where on the web (or a real brick and mortar store) where I can purchase AMSOIL 0W-30?

[jaramill]

Thanks Bob. Here's a URL that I have about oils (pretty good - you may have seen it):

http://www.eskimo.com/~dalus/bmw/all/misc/all_oilfaq.html

As for the other member's question: Yes Mobil does make 0W-30. Here's where you can order it from:
(they are part of Autobarn.com)

http://store.yahoo.com/rodi/oil44877.html

Gio

P.S. - Well I'll try to find AMSOIL around my way (I already purchased my Mobil 1 Tri-Synthetic for the upcoming oil change). I'll definitely talk to Kevlar about getting AMSOIL through him.

Thanks Bob.

[jaramill]

So then what is the difference between 0W-30, 10W-30, 15W-30, etc....?

Gio

[Bob ///M3]

Simply put, the first number (0W, 5W, 10W) is the oil's ability to flow when cool. Cool being defined as a temperature from -50 degrees F to over 100 degrees F.

The reason why a 0W or 5W oil is so important to use is because the oil will flow quicker when the engine is first cranked up, reducing wear. About 90% of all engine wear is caused at crank up due to lack of lubrication so getting oil quickly to the entire engine is obviously very important.

A 0W-30 oil is thicker at room temperature than a straight 50 weight oil is at normal engine temperatures (212 F). Therefore the lower the first number (ex. 0W) the quicker it will flow but it still won't flow as quickly as hot (212 F) oil (*W-30, *W-40, *W-50) will.

Bob <font color="1E90FF">/</font><font color="7D26CD">/</font><font color="red">/</font><b><font color="gray">M3</font></b>




Originally posted by jaramill
So then what is the difference between 0W-30, 10W-30, 15W-30, etc....?

Gio

[RS]

thanks for the info Bob,

Is AMSOIL that much better than Mobil1? Mobil1 has a solid history in all sorts of motor racing including F1 and if those guys are happy revving their engines to 17,000 with it, then it sounds good to me...so what sells you on AMSOIL? I see from their web site (www.amsoil.com) that they had the first synthetics and that they've been around since '72 and that they too are racing but it seems more 2 stroke oriented with motocross and snowmobile stuff....just wondering

You logic will probably make me reduce my oil weight on the next change (from Mobil1 15W-50) for reducing start up wear. So your happy with 30W once the oil is warm and not something higher?

thanks.....

(what IS up with the music?? hitting the browser's stop button makes it quit though)

[jaramill]

What music are people referring to? Is it a plug-in that plays when you go to this thread? Or is it throughout the message board?

Gio

[jaramill]

Just got an e-mail back from Autobarn.com after I replied to them asking if they can change my order from Mobil One Tri-Synthetic oil 10W-30 to their 0W-30 and they did it! They caught my order at the shipping dock and so now I'll be getting 0W-30!! Woohoo! Only the best for my car.

Thanks for the oil report Bob! Next oil change I'll try AMSOIL but the only problem with AMSOIL..........is trying to find it! :) Mobil One I can get anywhere (especially at Mobil gas stations).

Gio

[SlickM3]

I understand that there are some Amsoil dealers here. Please send a 0W-30 quote to me at: m3bim@home.com.

Also, what do you synth users advise for change interval? I've been doing 3 to 5 K with the dealer's 15W-40 gunk. Car has 60 K miles now.

Want to get synth, some Rhino ramps, and start doing it myself.

[AlphaKennyOne ///M3]

Hey yo bob!

I've been using Mobil Tri Synthetic 15-50 oil....now I was planning on switching 10w-30....but now since I know mobil makes a 0-30....I'll switch to that (Mobil 1 fan). My question is....will switching make me burn any oil?!?!?! I burn NO oil at all with 15-50....I put 7quarts in....7 quarts come right out!.....second question....do you burn any oil?!?!!

Thanks in advance bob,
Alan Nguyen

[ChewToy]

Are you guy's dumping in 8 quarts?

[Kevlar]

i used to use 7 1/2 quarts, maybe 7 3/4 quarts...

[M3325]

Kevlar, so you don't use the recommended 10W60 in your M3?

[Kevlar]

Originally posted by M3325
Kevlar, so you don't use the recommended 10W60 in your M3?

Yes... I currently use the 10W-60 in my E46 M3, but I used 0W-30 back when I had my E36 M3 (this thread was from a long time ago).

[///Mpmp1025]

i want to change to a synthetic i have 87K. i bought my car used at 65K and i think the guy before me went to the dealer for all his work. should i change to synthetic?

kevlar, where in Ft. lauderdale do u live? i live in Weston, when im down from Tallahassee where i got to school. i dont know y but that back ground looks familiar.

[Kevlar]

Originally posted by ///Mpmp1025
i want to change to a synthetic i have 87K. i bought my car used at 65K and i think the guy before me went to the dealer for all his work. should i change to synthetic?

You can change to synthetic ... no problems.



Originally posted by ///Mpmp1025
kevlar, where in Ft. lauderdale do u live? i live in Weston, when im down from Tallahassee where i got to school. i dont know y but that back ground looks familiar.

just south of weston in pembroke pines (by muvico).

[NoSoup4U]

Questions then Bob and Kevlar -

Can you ACTUALLY GO without changing your oil for 15K with Amsoil, or are you still changing your oil every 3-5K?

I use BMW 5w30 and change it EVERY 2500-3000 miles, so, spending $63 or whatever on amsoil would be okay, if I could extend that period to maybe 6K or 8K.

However, is this recommended for f/i'ed cars? More contaminants would probably build up over a shorter period of time.

Further, if the latter number is the weight of the oil, wouldn't a heavier oil be better suited for track use (at least in ambient conditions that are above normal), because for instance, when the ambient temperatures are around 90 degrees and you've just done a 20 minute session of hard driving, wouldn't you want a heavier oil instead of a lighter oil. The lighter oil would thin out to much at the higher temperatures, wouldn't it???

Or has consumers been entirely mislead by these other companies?

[Kevlar]

Originally posted by NoSoup4U
Can you ACTUALLY GO without changing your oil for 15K with Amsoil, or are you still changing your oil every 3-5K?


I changed my oil at about 7500 miles... once let it go to 9000miles and this included numerous auto-x, a track event and extreme harddriving from ambient climates from 30 degrees to 100 degrees


Originally posted by NoSoup4U

I use BMW 5w30 and change it EVERY 2500-3000 miles, so, spending $63 or whatever on amsoil would be okay, if I could extend that period to maybe 6K or 8K.

A client of mine sent his oil away from analysis and his oil came back suitable for further use without a problem. The oil he had sampled he used for 20,000 miles in his car... but he did change the filter at 10,000 miles.



Originally posted by NoSoup4U

However, is this recommended for f/i'ed cars? More contaminants would probably build up over a shorter period of time.


Yes... the oil would have to be changed more frequently for a FI car. The oil change interval would have to be determined by the intensity of the FI kit and how hard the car is run and how the FI system is maintained.


Originally posted by NoSoup4U

Further, if the latter number is the weight of the oil, wouldn't a heavier oil be better suited for track use (at least in ambient conditions that are above normal), because for instance, when the ambient temperatures are around 90 degrees and you've just done a 20 minute session of hard driving, wouldn't you want a heavier oil instead of a lighter oil. The lighter oil would thin out to much at the higher temperatures, wouldn't it???


I used 0W-30 for track sessions without a problem and I never noticed the oil temperature get too extreme... even after numerous laps on the track on a 90 degree day. The oil temperature was well below the burn point of the 0W-30... now, those are just my specific results. Different grade oils are available if people want...


Originally posted by NoSoup4U

Or has consumers been entirely mislead by these other companies?

I can only report on what I know and what I've researched...

[in_d_haus]

Bob,
Who did you speak to at Mobil and Redline? Of course since you talked to an engineer at Amsoil I'm sure you talked to his equivellent at the other two companies, taking for granted that anyone who works at these companies are going to be biased toward their products...they are trying to sell their oil after all.

What did the Redline and Mobil engineers say?

[Kevlar]

Originally posted by in_d_haus
What did the Redline and Mobil engineers say?

Everything Bob learned is available at http://********************/kevin/amsoilstudy.cfm

[jaramill]

My God this IS an old thread but it is one of my ARCHIVED (bookmarked threads) for it is where I learned the basics about oil and was turned on to AMSOIL. All my info came from Bob ///M3's thread.

I have also gone about 7500 miles before changing the oil (though I did have to add about 2 quarts during that time due to some hard driving an it was running low).

Gio

P.S. - I see you have an E46 now Kevlar. How's it feel upgrading?

[scottycs]

When I used 0w30 my car DRANK oil. When I switched to a slightly heavier oil, it stopped using oil, and has not used oil since.

[Kevlar]

Originally posted by jaramill
P.S. - I see you have an E46 now Kevlar. How's it feel upgrading?

Feels very good... at first I was skeptical, but now, I love every minute of it... and it is the only car that deserves to replace the old one.



When I used 0w30 my car DRANK oil. When I switched to a slightly heavier oil, it stopped using oil, and has not used oil since.


I have heard that from a few customers. As far as I know (or it has been explained to me... the Amsoil 0W-30 has some excellent cleaning agents in it. The oil works great for this reason as it keeps the engine clean. However, when you first start to run the 0W-30, it often times cleans out the sludge that prevents your car from burning/leaking any oil. I've had a few customers that have complained that initially their cars drank oil excessively during the first oil changeover to 0W-30, but after some mileage (normally by the second use of 0W-30) the problem goes away...

That's how it was explained to me. Now that being said, some cars just prefer a thicker blend... look at my car, it requires 10W-60 now. It's Ok tho, Amsoil has blends from 0W-30 to 20W-50 to a strict racing 60 weight oil ... and everything in between ;)

[LY95]

Bob and others,

What do you guys think of Redline oil? I'm debating on switching to them for my next oil change. I don't burn much, about 1/4 per 3000-3500 miles. BTW I'm running a turbo.

Opinions on Redline oil? Thanks in advance.

[jaramill]

The top 3 oils used by most members of this board (not in any particular order) are:

Mobil 1
AMSOIL
Redline

Then there are those that use the BMW brand made by Castrol
and others that use Royal Purple or even Valvoline or Quaker State. You won't go wrong using any synthetic and I hear Redline is pretty good too and you can find it in stores though not as easily as Mobil 1 but definitely better than AMSOIL since AMSOIL is mail-order only.

Gio

[LY95]

What are the weights of Redline, if you could provide them? Do they have 0W30? Thanks.

[jaramill]

Here's a cut&paste from their website:

<a href="http://www.redlineoil.com">RedLine Oil</a>

<b>
Red Line 5W30: Provides the quickest starts and fastest oil pressure rise. Will reduce turbo lag and provides more power and best economy in an engine in good condition. Replacement for OE factory-fill oils in passenger cars and most light trucks. Thicker oil film at operating temperature than a petroleum 10W-40. Best choice for engines operated in extreme cold weather.

Red Line 10W30: Best all-weather viscosity grade for gasoline engines in cars and light trucks that are driven on the street on a daily basis. Reduces turbo lag and provides more power and economy while providing thicker bearing oil films at operating temperature than a petroleum 10W-40. Best all-round, synthetic oil for stock or slightly modified engines in high- performance cars that are street-driven. Best choice to replace a 5W-30 or 10W-30, petroleum-based or other-brand synthetic oil if maximum durability is preferred. Acceptable for engines that are occasionally operated in extreme cold weather.

Red Line 10W40: Best choice for engines that typically run high oil temperature. Best choice for engines in daily drivers operated in very hot weather on a regular basis. Best choice for medium and heavy duty gasoline engines in trucks. Best choice for high-performance engines that see street as well as frequent racetrack duty. Thicker oil film at operating temperature than a petro-based 20W-50.

Red Line 15W50 & 20W50: The ultimate high-temperature protection in Red Line engine oils recommended for street use. Good for engines that regularly run very high oil temperatures. Best for engines that run large clearances such as air-cooled engines or large-displacement, all-out racing engines that see occasional street use. Provides 25% more viscosity in bearings than petroleum 20W-50s. Not recommended for use in cold climates where temperatures are at or below 10°F or -12°C. Not recommended for street use in production engines that see sustained oil temperatures below 225°F. Those engines should use Red Line 10W-30 or 10W-40.
</b>

[NoSoup4U]

Red Line 10W40 -- see, the stuff that's listed there, that's contradictory to what has been posted here, e.g., ow30....

IMO, every oil manufacturer seems to indicate that a heavier oil, is better for more sport/performance oriented engines....such as f/i, and I would assume, even the high-revving e46 m3 engine.

[pas]

I've been going back and forth on this issue. I will be switching to Amsoil, but I was planning to go with a 15W50 viscosity/grade for better shear protection, or perhaps 10W30, which is what Amsoil recommended to me originally. I did some research into the use of the 0W30 and indeed independently confirmed Amsoil tech's opinions as expressed originally to Bob (actually Darryn Wallace from Amsoil responded directly to my query to confirm this information through Amsoil's tech line - he did recommend the 0W30 and noted that if the car was not using synthetic previously, an application of the engine flush was recommended).

My question: has anyone been using the 0W30 oil in their M3 for a long (e.g., >1 year) period of time with no detrimental engine affects?

[jaramill]

Originally posted by pas
My question: has anyone been using the 0W30 oil in their M3 for a long (e.g., >1 year) period of time with no detrimental engine affects?

Being that I am an AMSOIL <b>Independent</b> Dealer it may sound bias but I have been running 0W-30 AMSOIL in my E36 M3 for over a year and a half and have had not one problem engine-wise. My mechanic who I take my car to for regular service and enhancements knows my car is tight and though he subscribes to the "heavier" oil is better theory, he did say that 0W-30 would be fine in my car as well.

Gio

[quik96M3]

I had a problem when running low viscosity oil in both my previous E36 ('93 325is) and current E36 ('96 M3). Both cars experienced more pronounced oil starvation problems while autocrossing on low visc (Mobil 1 5W-30) oil, and the valvetrain/lifter noise decreased significantly by switching to Mobil1 15W-50. Best I can surmise, the higher viscosity helps to reduce the level of slosh in the pan. Like many other E36 owners, I found running the oil level about 1/2-3/4 quart above the full mark also helps to reduce the starvation problem. The only real fix is to install a modified or dual pick-up pan, but the higher viscosity oil definitely made a difference in my E36's.

Keith Q.
Cary, NC

[NightKidz]

hmm...so how many quart do i need if i have a 99 M3 3.2 L engine?

eric

[document]

As many as it takes... Something like 8 quarts for a complete change, but you should just fill up to the top mark on the dipstick and then add, like was said, about 1/2-1 quart additional. Don't bother if you're not autoxing/tracking your car, unless you drive like a madman on the street.

[polifimos]

Hey guys --

A very illuminating exhange of information on oil grades...

I've been using 10W-30 Castrol or Mobil pure synthetic. Does it make that much of a difference using 0W-30 Amsoil vs Mobil or Castrol?

I wonder if there exist more comparative tests on the various same-grade synthetic oils ( besides the graph used by Amsoil to promote its own product ).

Any leads?

Thanks.

[jaramill]

Well I know that my mpg (miles per/gallon) has gone up a bit by using AMSOIL. The only for you to truly find out is to fill up with one brand of oil. Then drive until you're almost empty on gas. Then mark down your mileage.

Then on your next oil change switch over and then fill up the gas tank and drive again. See how your MPG change. The higher the better.

Gio

[LY95]

It doesn't take 8 quarts. The owner's manual says 6.9 for 95s and I'm sure the 96+ M3s aren't that much higher, if they are at all. Possibly 7, but most definitely not 8.

[Kevlar]

Originally posted by Kevlar
i used to use 7 1/2 quarts, maybe 7 3/4 quarts...

[Gene V]

For a '97, my manual says 6.9 qt with a filter change...

Bentley says 6.9 qt for for the S50US and 6.3 qt for the S52US (seems like it should maybe be the other way around)...

I just changed my oil today and it took 7 qts to the full mark on the dipstick, I added another 1/2 qt...

Specified weight is 15w40 in a climate where the temp reaches 80 deg F and warmer...subsequently, I use Redline 10W40 because of that and for the reasons stated under that viscosity on their website...I'm not worried about my gas mileage...

[Kevlar]

Originally posted by Gene V
Specified weight is 15w40 in a climate where the temp reaches 80 deg F and warmer...subsequently, I use Redline 10W40 because of that and for the reasons stated under that viscosity on their website...I'm not worried about my gas mileage...

Isn't that specified weight for a non-synthetic oil? :confused:

[Gene V]

As depicted in the owner's manual and Bentley's...it doesn't specify petroleum based or synthetic...

[Kevlar]

Here is some information reported from somebody that uses Amsoil.

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=82844

[Gene V]

WOW!...running up to 50 deg cooler with Amsoil...

[quik96M3]

Hey guys, what about Castrol 5W-50?

I just got around to reading the details of Bob's report (http://********************/kevin/amsoilstudy.cfm), and it seems to point clearly to a different winner for me - never thought I'd say Castrol, but check out the specs for Castrol Syntec 5W-50. Viscosity Index and Flash are almost identical to AMSOIL 0W-30, and High Temp/High Shear is better. Ash content is very good for the Castrol (not listed for the AMSOIL), and, like most, Wear is "NA" for Castrol. For those of us who attribute lesser valvetrain noise on track to higher viscosity oil, 5W-50 should be a better choice than 0W-30, and the cold start viscosity is only 5 points higher than a 0W.

I never thought I would consider any synthetic other than Mobil1, Redline, or AMSOIL, but it's hard not to give a hard look at Castrol 5W-50, given it's basic specs. So what am I missing? Please, someone, tell me why the Castrol isn't as good as the AMSOIL, Redline, or Mobil1.

Keith Q.
Cary, NC
1996 M3

[Gene V]

I used the Castrol 5w50 in previous cars when it first came out...don't know why I stopped using it.

So, oil experts, why isn't it as good as Amsoil, Redline, Mobil 1, etc?

[in_d_haus]

My $.02 is that I believe the guys in Bavaria (BMW Engineers) are kinda smart, after all they design, build, and test every part of these cars to failure. They also look at racing such as the ALMS (Schnitzer and PTG) to see what is up with these cars.

They know these cars and more specifically the engines. Regardless of brand I'd say stick with the factory recommended viscosity ratings. I'm sorry but you can't convince me Amsoil knows more about my BMW engine that the BMW engineers who designed...AMSoil and the other manufacturers make a product for the masses that is oil to dump in every car be it a 1953 Studebaker or 2003 M3. They do not have the money to do the kind of studies any car manufacturer does on a specific model.

If 0W30 is so great for these cars BMW would have said "run 0W30" BUT... it's your money and your car....have at it.

[quik96M3]

I couldn't agree more, but BMW doesn't seem to make any synthetic oil viscosity recommendations for E36 M3's. I've found it impossible to get anyone at BMW to tell me what the recommended viscosity grade is for synthetic oil in my '96 M3. My BMW manual and Bentley manual both state viscosity recommendations only for petroleum based oils and not for synthetics. I called BMW North America's customer service line, and they bounced me around, finally suggesting I check with my local BMW dealer. When I asked at the dealership (Service and Parts personnel), they all said they weren't sure, they use whichever viscosity they have in stock, sometimes 5W-30, 10W-40, etc. No one I've talked to at BMW could come up with BMW's actual recommendation.

Does anyone know?

Keith Q.
Cary, NC

[Kevlar]

I'm almost dead sure that BMW at the time recommended 5W-30 synthetic for the E36 M3. I don't have a manual in front of me, so I can't tell you for sure.

However, when they recommended it... 0W-30 was not available. I do believe newer 3series cars come with a 0W-30 synthetic oil recommendation.

As for the 5W-50... you know, I'm not quite sure. I think it has to do with the fact that the oil may be so thick that it may not reach between the tight tolerances of engine parts. IE... at operating temperature... a 30W oil is able to get to parts that have a clearance of .0003mm while a 50W oil wouldn't be able to get into the same place. Now, I'm not quite sure... but that's what I think.

Granted... race cars use a thicker blend, but often, their tolerances are not built so close or have been driven so hard, the tolerances have opened up over time possibly? :dunno:

[quik96M3]

That would be true in the case of single-viscosity oils but not in the case of multi-viscosities. Multi-viscosity oil does not thicken as it heats up, it just thins a lot less than a single grade would. For example, 0W-30 is 0W at low temp and increases to 30W at high temp, but the high temp (30W) flow properties are still "thinner" than the low temp (0W).

Keith Q.
Cary, NC

[aolling]

EAG, Enthusiastic Auto Group in Cincinnati, recommends using Amsoil 15w40 Diesel/Marine engine oil in an M Roadster. They deal in nothing but BMW M cars and have for years. I've been using it for the last 5 years in my 2000 M Roadster. No issues. Thoughts?

[nick325xit 5spd]

I didn't like the metals I was seeing with Amsoil in my truck, they improved a fair bit following a switch to Rotella. I see no reason to use Amsoil in anything.

[TostitoBandito]

17 years, nice. Might be a new record.

[golgo13]

That was an epic necro. I also like that the account is already banned.

:D:D:D

[RickyN F355]

for the most part, synthetic oil is synthetic oil. i was on the amsoil kick 20 years ago. now im indifferent. unless you have a track car, oil is oil on the street.

[blckstrm]

17 years, nice. Might be a new record.

It's far more entertaining when it's a random resurrect than an actual meaningful update.

[PaulSK]

My question is had you (Bob) talked to a Technical Design Engineer and Chemist for Royal Purpurple, Liqui-moly, Red line or Lucas might they also say that theirs performed better than the rest. It would seem to me that employee of a company might have an invested interest in their own product and job security. Just saying.

[RickyN F355]

for daily driving you guys are splitting hairs debating brands. the weight is all that matters. 15w 40 wld be heaving for a northeast winter. id use 0w or 5w 30 all year round.