apparently I suck with a BMW clutch!!

[sailingoncheese]

All I have ever driven was a manuel transmission, so this isnt my first time with a stick, but I'v had my 328is for a few months now and when I first had it I could chirp second with the ACS turn off. In the past few weeks I haven't been able to, and I'v done the CDV delete! Is this a sing of a worn clutch, because I got in my dads Z3, and he has babied it since hes had it, and bam chirped second no worries. My car originally belonged to some one in Cerretos CA(L.A. area) and I would assume that the LA stop and go traffic would adversely affect the life of the clutch. So me driving like a bat out of hell probably killed what little life was left on the clutch, at least thats what I'm guessing. If it is the clutch I guess its time to get the UUC fly wheel and clutch upgrade. any thoughts on this, dose this sound like a shot clutch?
thanks
-brian

[abemcclellan]

it doesn't sound like its totally shot yet. but pretty worn out in my opinion. i wouldn't worry about it til it starts slipping, then get a clutch swap asap.

[Storamin]

To test your clutch get on a road and start doing 20mph, shift into fifth and then give it gas. If the revs go up and the mph does not, the clutch is slipping. If it isn't slipping don't worry about replacing it.

You can go with an oem/stock clutch. There is no real need to upgrade and dish out the money unless you plan to go FI.

[Gofast]

You can go with an oem/stock clutch. There is no real need to upgrade and dish out the money unless you plan to go FI.

Except you can install a LTW flywheel. :evil2

And honestly, the e34 M5 clutch gives a much stronger engagement, and is much nicer when driving hard or in stop/go traffic.

[sailingoncheese]

ok I tried the shift from 1st to 5th and the RPM's drop like a rock. But still I absolutely ca not chirp 2nd where as before I could, its just kinda annoying because that always put a big stupid grin on my face! so...Its not slipping is there anything else I could look into for the lack of power to the wheels?
thanks
-brian

[Truman325i]

maybe its just grade of gas, summer makes tires more sticky, worn tires(but that would increase chirp, natural wear and tear.

[fishfeet]

Mine is the same way.
I used to be able to chirp 2nd when I wanted.. but didnt do it all that much.
Then I started to do it more often, as well as burnout a few times (things which i never did my first 18 months own the car)...

after doing it a lot more often for a few weeks, Ive noticed its a lot harder to chip 2nd... only if I can make a VERY fast shift from redline can I get it (and not even all the time)
I feel like the clutch is worn.. but its not slipping.... pretty sure its not anyway.
Ill give that little first to 5th thing a try.

[fishfeet]

ok - as I made a quick trip to the store I decided to try the 1st to 5th test.

I did it 5 times:

1) After I shifted into 5th the RPMs and speed both went up slowly until I hit about 45 MPH and then the RPMs went up very quick while the speed did nothing

2) RPMs and speed went up together the entire time (backed off at around 55mph)

3) RPMs went racing up as soon as I shifted into 5th and mashed the gas.

4) RPMs and speed went up together the entire time (backed off at around 55mph)

5)RPMs and speed went up together the entire time (backed off at around 60mph)


So what do you make of this. The clutch is slipping very little? If so, I assume it will only get worse.

What will a (stock) clutch replacement cost me approx? Not just the part.. but the entire install.
Is it something that a person with decent knowledge of cars could probably do?
I have a friend that is going to help me install a new diff.... it might be something him and I can tackle together.. hopefully.. maybe.

[Rob Levinson]

1) After I shifted into 5th the RPMs and speed both went up slowly until I hit about 45 MPH and then the RPMs went up very quick while the speed did nothing

3) RPMs went racing up as soon as I shifted into 5th and mashed the gas.



Slipping in a big way. That clutch doesn't have much time left.

While I would recommend the UUC Stage2 M5 Clutch Conversion package (see: http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/flywheel/LFWLE36SH.htm ), there is an alternate choice from UUC if you're looking for a street-friendly performance clutch to work with your original flywheel... the UUC Direct-Fit Performance Organic clutch. See:

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/performance_clutches/

This will work with your original flywheel and give you much more clamping force and a higher capacity clutch disk.

.

[fishfeet]

so why did it slip 2 of the 5 and not the other 3?

Does a slipping clutch cause loss of acceleration? Because I havent noticed any. But perhaps its so gradual that I wouldnt notice.


and how much, approx, does it cost to have it replaced? parts and labor.

[Rob Levinson]

so why did it slip 2 of the 5 and not the other 3?

Because it may have just begun to start slipping, and only does it when it gets sufficiently hot.


Does a slipping clutch cause loss of acceleration? Because I havent noticed any. But perhaps its so gradual that I wouldnt notice.

While actively slipping, of course it does. As you noted, your rpm went up but your speed did not. Acceleration, by definition, is a change in speed. Without a change in speed, you were not accelerating. QED, you had a loss of acceleration.


and how much, approx, does it cost to have it replaced? parts and labor.

Clutch replacement costs vary greatly between type of shop (dealer vs. independent) and geographical area. I have seen clutch replacement labor charges as little as $250 and as much as $1000, all for the same type of car. On average, however, most independents charge around $400-$500 for the labor. As with any repair, it's good to ask about cost before the work is started.

- Rob

[fishfeet]

While actively slipping, of course it does
Well duh! That wasnt my question.
Perhaps I should have phrased it better.
If the clutch is weaker... close to slippage.. does that still reduce acceleration? Or is everything the same until it actually slips?


Also - how likely is it that Ill need a new flywheel too?
What contributes to burning out the flywheel?

[bademj00n]

chirping 2nd is difficult, and i have a new clutch

[Rob Levinson]

Well duh! That wasnt my question.
Perhaps I should have phrased it better.
If the clutch is weaker... close to slippage.. does that still reduce acceleration? Or is everything the same until it actually slips?

When it's not slipping, it has no effect on acceleration.



Also - how likely is it that Ill need a new flywheel too?
What contributes to burning out the flywheel?

OE flywheels just about never "burn out". The mode of failure is the dual-mass mechanism breaks, causing anything from vibration, to noise, to incomplete clutch engagement/slipping.

OE flywheels rarely last more than three clutch replacement cycles, and many BMW techs advise using a fresh one every time to avoid re-doing the job prematurely.

- Rob

[AJGee]

-Strictly speaking, everything is the same until the disc begins to slip. But it may be slipping a little and not be perceptible.

The flywheel should be inspected. From recent reading I've done, the dual mass flywheels will allow slippage themselves between it's two sides in extreme use, but repeatedly having this happen can lead to flywheel failure. Apparently a visual clue is grease seeping from between the two halves as it's normally a sealed unit. I don't know how easliy this happens though.

The other point of flywheel failure would be where the clutch disc contacts the flywheel - the surface on the flywheel can get damaged by extreme use, including heat from excessive slipping. Analogous to overheating a brake rotor, the heat changes the hardness of the metal in spots, then softer spots can wear faster than the harder ones. Eventually grip becomes uneven. This is an oversimplification, but you get the idea..

[Storamin]

Except you can install a LTW flywheel. :evil2

And honestly, the e34 M5 clutch gives a much stronger engagement, and is much nicer when driving hard or in stop/go traffic.

... if you like to burnout a lot (clearly the OP does).

[shhuang]

chirping 2nd is difficult, and i have a new clutch

no it's not. i used to be able to do it everytime in my 328i. not anymore, but there's 100+ thousand hard miles on the current clutch.

[BimmerDude18]

Rob this is a good question you can probably answer. Did BMW ever have a single mass flywheel on the E36, and if so what year did they switch to dual mass. I have heard that they switched in 97 along with a few other things but would like to know before I replace my clutch what I am going to be up against.

[sailingoncheese]

yeah I gotta say that all I had to do was turn off ACS and shift quickly into 2nd.
When I get 999.99 I'm doing the UUC stage2 flywheel with the sachs power clutch. anyone feel charitable?
-brian

[BimmerDude18]

yeah I gotta say that all I had to do was turn off ACS and shift quickly into 2nd.
When I get 999.99 I'm doing the UUC stage2 flywheel with the sachs power clutch. anyone feel charitable?
-brian
I can still barely chirp second. I mean I can barely chirp second if I redline shift and hold the gas so it hits the limiter and then just straight dump the clutch. I used to be able to do it on a proper shift :(.

And this 1st to 5th test am I supposed to shift then floor it or floor it as I let the clutch out?

[Rob Levinson]

Rob this is a good question you can probably answer. Did BMW ever have a single mass flywheel on the E36, and if so what year did they switch to dual mass. I have heard that they switched in 97 along with a few other things but would like to know before I replace my clutch what I am going to be up against.


Not in the E36... all models used a dual-mass flywheel.

BMW started the switch to dual-mass flywheels around '89 in the USA, although the E34 M5 had single-mass through '93.

- Rob

[fishfeet]

I was talking to a local mechanic who does a lot of work with BMWs, Benz, ect...
I asked him for a quote on clutch replacement. He said it would be about $425 labor alone.
He then went on to say that they rarely do a clutch replacement where the flywheel doesnt need to be replaced too.
Thats why I asked my earlier question.

[BMDub325is]

I have the same freaking problem but I already replaced the Flywheel and clutch (Fidanza/SachsM3) and it is still doing it.... I have no clue why the power transfer is not making it to the wheels right away. I am gonna replace engine mounts, tranny mounts and guibo but none of them are showing any wear so who knows...... A new clutch/flywheel setup may not solve your prob.

[Storamin]

I can still barely chirp second. I mean I can barely chirp second if I redline shift and hold the gas so it hits the limiter and then just straight dump the clutch. I used to be able to do it on a proper shift :(.

And this 1st to 5th test am I supposed to shift then floor it or floor it as I let the clutch out?
Start out at around 20mph, you should be in second I guess, it doesn't really matter what gear you start out in. Shift to fifth. Floor it after shifting & if the revs increase while the speed does not, it's a sign of slipping. If both go up then you're ok.

[STEVE36]

I have the same freaking problem but I already replaced the Flywheel and clutch (Fidanza/SachsM3) and it is still doing it.... I have no clue why the power transfer is not making it to the wheels right away. I am gonna replace engine mounts, tranny mounts and guibo but none of them are showing any wear so who knows...... A new clutch/flywheel setup may not solve your prob.

But have you done the CDV delete?

[niconvertible]

if you can't spin the tires, then the clutch is 100% shot you may get stranded at anytime

[BMDub325is]

But have you done the CDV delete?

Supposedly there is not a CDV on a 93'.

[beatniks325]

^correct.

[heifetz17]

But have you done the CDV delete?
His '93 doesn't have a CDV.

Perhaps my car has some kind of performance mod that I don't know about, because if it's difficult (at least somewhat difficult) for a 328 to chirp 2nd, I certainly shouldn't be able to.

I can chirp 2nd every time. In fact, it's a problem for me when I'm trying to get faster times. I try not to chirp 2nd, but every single time I shift to second and hear a "chirp". I've been trying to shift lighter and slower, but I still chirp through 2nd.

When the road is slightly damp (not wet, but damp) I can chirp 3rd no problem. A few times I've chirped 3rd on dry road. That's pretty hard though, and I haven't done it for a while, but I've done it.