Doing research, so I've got some questions...

[Preppy]

So I've decided on a MCS after starting my search off by looking at some VW GTI's, M Coupe's, and Jeep Wrangler's. I know, I made the right choice, no need to tell me ;) I am definitely going to buy CPO as I cannot wait (nor do I have the funds) for a new car. But I am curious about certain options that I am looking for.

Navigation: Is it pretty good and spot on with regards to finding places and giving me accurate directions?

iPod link: Will it let me control the iPod, like selecting playlists and whatnot, or is it just basically an audio jack?

And lastly, are there any years I should avoid? Any big problems I should get looked at before I make the purchase?

Thanks so much guys. I guess your Mini moderator is finally joining the crowd :D

[mace]

Hey Chris, welcome aboard! First off, I suggest staying away from 02-03 models because those years have lots of bugs! 04 models are "ok" but need to look at service history and how many miles on the car. Second, when you get the car, a 15% pulley, intake, exhaust, and rear sway bar is a must!!! The rear sway bar totally changed the handling of my car to neutral (it cancelled out a lot of understeer) and it was only $130 shipped. Don't ask, I ran into a lucky deal on ebay. :)

[Koopah]

...{snip}...Navigation: Is it pretty good and spot on with regards to finding places and giving me accurate directions?
While the navigation is ok, you will probably pay a premium for it...and there are more accurate and flexible otions. I eschewed the MINI navigation system in favor of a high-end, bluetooth-capable PDA. It's loaded with OnCourse Navigator and NAVTEQ maps (remember, map accuracy is a very important element of any navigation system). Paired with the PDA is a GlobalSat BT-338 SiRF III bluetooth GPSr. With the GlobalSat, I can get 5 satellites inside my livingroom! The combination is easy to use (I just tap a Contacts address and OCN does the rest), easy to upgrade (since the GPSr is a separate device) and it functions as my PDA/DVD player/music player.

Oh, and I like the classic look of the center-mounted speedometer, too.


...{snip}...iPod link: Will it let me control the iPod, like selecting playlists and whatnot, or is it just basically an audio jack?
The Dennison ICE-Link will probably be the type of device you will want. It allows the iPod to be connected to the radio and be controlled by the buttons on the multi-function steering wheel. Make sure the MINI you are buying has the MFSW.


...{snip}...are there any years I should avoid? Any big problems I should get looked at before I make the purchase?
As mentioned by mace, I would avoid the 2002 year model. Late 2003 models built after July of 2003 seem relatively trouble-free (see below) as are all the 2004s; there are exceptions, of course.

My 2004 MCS required two areas of attention:

(1) The coolant tank had a tendancy to leak; I could easily spot dried coolant on the metal heat shield located under the tank. There was a TSB issued for this problem and the tank was replaced under warranty. You can spot the new tank by its color: the original tank is off-white and the new tanks are light brown/dark beige. There is a TSB for this issue.

(2) More insideous is the dreaded "yo-yo". The yo-yo can be felt as a rythmic bucking (sometimes quite pronounced!) that happens in the 3,000 to 4,000 rpm range under hard acelleration. This symptom is produced by the oscillation of the SC bypass valve in response to improperly coded sensor software. The yo-yo cannot be fixed; its effect can only be "masked". Unfortunately, the sensor's code cannot be overwritten (corrected) by an ECU flash. However, later versions of ECU software (V.39) have helped mask the yo-yo's effect.

Note that the yo-yo is not present on every 2004 MCS. There are many reports from 2004 MCS owners that indicate their MINIs are yo-yo free. Whether this is the case or we yo-yo owners are more "sensitive" to the MINI's behavior is yet to be documented.

Other things to pay attention to are:

(3) Any small chip in the windscreen. Some MINIs have had problems with windscreens cracking. What may be a chip today, might be a large crack tomorrow. Repair cost is about $500 if you have rain-sensing wipers.

(4) PVC valve condition. Another issue on some 2004s is a problem with the PVC valve "expiring" early in its intended life. This will be noticed as a rough-running engine, a buzzing noise at idle and, ultimately the culprit behind the diagnostic system lighting the "Service Engine Soon" light. This was covered under a TSB.

(5) December 2004 Emissions Campaign. Your MINI dealer can tell you more about this one but it covers a possible sensor and filler-neck issue that might not allow the MINIs emission system to be compliant with 50-state certification; especially in California. In fact, MINI was required to report to the state governments all MINIs that did not recieve the corrective TSB modification. And, while this may seem a little heavy-handed, the TSB also included ECU Version 39.x which further helped the yo-yo and stabilized the speed variation in the cruise control. That being said, there were some 2004 MINI owners that reported problems (cold start issues) with V39.x.

I recommended that you should make sure any 2003 you are looking at was built after July 2003. This is because prior to that time, the power steering fan and the radiator cooling fan were wired on the same circuit. The problem is that the power steering fan resides in an exposed section on the botom of the engine bay facing toward the road. The fan shroud is open to the ground, as there is no grille affixed to it. A number of owners have picked up sticks, rocks, plastic bags and other debris that have jammed into the power steering fan and have blown the circuit's fuse. Of course, this has shut-down the radiator cooling fan as well. Unfortunately, this condition is not noticed until the MINI comes to stop-and-go traffic where it promptly overheats. There is also a TSB on this issue.

Bottom line is that with any BMW/MINI you buy, try to get its service history based on the VIN. And, IMHO, stick with the 2004 model year.

Theo

[MandaBoo]

iPod link: Will it let me control the iPod, like selecting playlists and whatnot, or is it just basically an audio jack?
If you do get a car that has the MINI iPod link, it will let you use the MFSW controls to access playlists, but only 5 playlists that have to begin with MINI1, MINI2, etc, but can end in the name of your actual playlist. It can be a little annoying until you get used to it. I've gotten to the point where from time to time I go into iTunes and just add the prefix to different playlists. The 5 playlists are selected with the radio preset buttons 1 through 5. The 6th preset button plays everthing on your iPod.

[Preppy]

Whoa, that is pretty detailed information. Thanks guys. I guess I should try to stick with some 2004's and above, but if I do that I'll be hurting later on when I try to have some mod money. But I'd rather have reliability and piece of mind over some mods that can wait.

Time to keep looking! :) Thanks again, more info is always helpful!

[Nimble]

My faith in Mini's is wearing thin. My girlfriend bought a brand new 03 back in the summer of 03. Two years later and 19K miles, it's leaking oil....the f'in head gasket is leaking! :eek: :confused Great build quality there. It's currently sitting at the Mini dealer waiting for Mini USA to determine whether or not to replace the entire cylinder head. Not sure why, since it never overheated. Not to mention, her car rattles, the stock sunroof screen is a POS and lets the sun in even when closed. Her windshield trim came off the FIRST day she bought it. Not to mention the absolute WORST ride quality of any car I've ridden in....it truely is bone jarring.

[Koopah]

My faith in Mini's is wearing thin. My girlfriend bought a brand new 03 back in the summer of 03. Two years later and 19K miles, it's leaking oil....the f'in head gasket is leaking! :eek: :confused Great build quality there. It's currently sitting at the Mini dealer waiting for Mini USA to determine whether or not to replace the entire cylinder head. Not sure why, since it never overheated. Not to mention, her car rattles, the stock sunroof screen is a POS and lets the sun in even when closed. Her windshield trim came off the FIRST day she bought it. Not to mention the absolute WORST ride quality of any car I've ridden in....it truely is bone jarring.

Nimble,

The leaking head gasket is quite unusual. Typically, the Tritec motor has proven to be quite bulletproof. There are folks that are reliably pushing this motor in the 250 hp range. That being said, nothing is perfect and no marque has a perfect record on build quality. Talk to me about the control arms, window regulators, battery and cooling fan wiring on my 2000 328i!

How long has the MINI been at the dealer? Has a regional technical representative examined the motor yet? Has the MINI been modded with aftermarket parts? How long ago did the tech rep visit?

You can escalate this problem if you are not getting a satisfactory response from your dealer or regional representative. Call MINIUSA (NOT the ASKMINI number!) in New Jersey and ask to speak with the Vice President of Customer Relations. I did this when I was battling the "yo-yo" problem and he made things happen for me.

The rattles are a known problem and mostly eliminated in the 2004 model year. I believe there is a TSB on the rattles that may be coming from both the dash area and the hatch. Have your dealer address these (and any other outstandingTSBs) while it is sitting there.

Being perforated, the sunroof screen does let some filtered sun in. In New England, this is usually not much of a problem and is an issue only on the hottest days. However, in the south and southwest, I imagine it to be more significant. Did you have a chance to examine the screen BEFORE the car was purchased? Did you feel it was adequate at that time?

You might want to consider purchasing the external sunroof covering kits which add a second (perforated) layer and, combined with the stock screen, do a good job of blocking the heat from the sun. They come in black and white and adhere to the top of the sunroof (like roof graphics). I recently saw a BRG/white MINI with the white sunroof screening material and it looked kinda cool.

I have heard of windshield trim coming off after windshields have been replaced. Something about the clips or the like. I assume you immediately returned to the dealer to have the issue addressed successfully?

Ah, the ride quality. You don't indicate whether the MINI is a Cooper or an "S"; I'm guessing that it is the "S" and has the sport package with the 17" s-lite wheels and runflat tires. I'm also guessing that you had a chance to test drive this combination BEFORE the car was purchased...yes? Did you not feel the characteristics of the ride BEFORE the car was purchased?

There is no doubt that the runflat tires give a pretty harsh ride due to their very stiff sidewall. That in combination with the 45mm sidewall height will not give you a "boulevard" ride. Throw into the mix the tight suspension of the MCS and you have a setup that is designed for performance rather than touring. One of my friends has a new Corvette with the runflats and bought new tires (and a mobility kit) after 1 month of ownership.

That being said, I have found the ride to be on the harsh side at low speed around the poorly maintained roads of New England, but once I am on the interstate and am traveling at speed, the ride is amazingly stable (well into three digits) with excellent feel and feedback.

Nimble, I think it is fair to say that all automobile manufacturers produce a product with less that 100% quality and reliability. In my 39 years of owning and driving sports cars, I have had first hand experience with some extremely high and low quality/maintenance automobiles. On the low end were the Fiats and at the high end have been (suprisingly) Hondas. That being said, most of the really enjoyable cars I have driven (914/6, 911, XKE, Spitfire, M3) have been less than perfect in quality, fit and finish. I knowingly made concessions in these areas in order to experience the thrill of driving and competing in them. And, I would do it all over again!

In light of this, I can honestly tell you that I have never owned a car that has given me such an incredible driving experience for the money as my JCW MCS. And, for me, one of the best parts of the experience is that I spend almost all my time driving the MCS, not maintaining it.

Please PM me if you would like some more information on how to escalate the problem with your MINI.

FWIW,

Theo

[1996 328ti]

The Nav is OK although I like my Garmin Street Pilot much better. With the Nav you loose the water temp guage. I also have a hard time seeing the speedo.

We have a 2003 and the yo-yo effect is back. We are waiting for the next software release. Just had the radiator overflow replaced. Finally got the rattles fixed.

I have doubts if we will keep it once the warranty is over.
Our Xenons are on the fritz again. I can't wait to get rid of the runcraps. The M&S tires on it are the worst I've ever driven on. Other than that, my wife loves the car. :redspot I want to get rid of it and buy a 1-series.

[Preppy]

I want to get rid of it and buy a 1-series.

MMM, yeah, when do those come over? Never right?

[1996 328ti]

MMM, yeah, when do those come over? Never right?
We will get them. The question is which ones. I'd love to have a 120d or 130. BMW needs an entry level car again. The Mini is NOT a BMW. The drive wheels are on the wrong end of the car and BMW NA says hatchbacks don't sell. Although we might consider another Mini when the warranty is up.

[Koopah]

MMM, yeah, when do those come over? Never right?

Yeah...I'm with Preppy on this one. Whether the MINI is or isn't a BMW means absolutely nothing to the BMW corporate decision makers; their interest is in the P&L.

There is also a lot of activity around new MINI body styles, engines, etc. This seems like a caluclated way to broaden the MINI market worldwide. But, why would you broaden the MINI market in North America only to incur additional costs for distribution, dealer inventory, parts, service training, square-footage, advertising, and product differentiation efforts for what would be percieved as a competitor? I realize the 1-series is distributed in Europe but that market has different demographics and psychographics compared to NA.

Not that I wouldn't want to see the 1-series over here, it's just that I don't see a compelling marketing strategy that includes it. BMW have always wanted its buyers to take the graduation track: start with the 3-series, then the 5/6-series and finally the 7-series. With a reasonably-equipped "entry-level" 3-series (325) with the three major option packages going for $36,000 to $40,000, and the MINI range covering $18,000 to $34,000, where would the 1-series fit into the graduation track?

After all, much MINI marketing is focused toward the 20-40 age group; just the demographic/psychographic sector that might also buy the 1-series. Thus, IMHO, I believe the MINI and 1-series would vie for the same market; the MINI would mainly appeal to one portion of the market sector with its unique stye and performance, and the 1-series would mainly appeal to a more "brand-conscientious" portion of the market sector. I, personally, don't believe that the RWD/FWD difference will mean a whole lot to a significant percent of this sector's buyers.

That being said, I certainly wouldn't mind walking into my dealership for a 1-series test drive!

FWIW,

Theo

[1996 328ti]

Not that I wouldn't want to see the 1-series over here, it's just that I don't see a compelling marketing strategy that includes it. BMW have always wanted its buyers to take the graduation track: start with the 3-series, then the 5/6-series and finally the 7-series. With a reasonably-equipped "entry-level" 3-series (325) with the three major option packages going for $36,000 to $40,000, and the MINI range covering $18,000 to $34,000, where would the 1-series fit into the graduation track? I really don't mean to hijack this thread but. . .
The E90 is more like what the 5-Series was. Just as the E30 was a jump up from the '02. I want a new car within 2 years. If it is not a 1 it will be something from Mazda. I hope to always have a ti or E30. I never cared that much for the E46 and an E90 is out of my price range. MINI dealerships are too few and far between.

[Preppy]

Yeah, wtf is up with the limited Mini dealers in the DC area?

I mean, I swear, where we live, Steven, I'm not quite sure if Towson, Sterling, or Tate are all just as far away as the next....

[1996 328ti]

Yeah, wtf is up with the limited Mini dealers in the DC area?

I mean, I swear, where we live, Steven, I'm not quite sure if Towson, Sterling, or Tate are all just as far away as the next....We are one of the largest markets in the US and to have 3 is probably better than the rest of the country.

[Preppy]

True, good point.

Does anyone know if the LSD is a 'must-have' option? I will be driving mainly highway miles and do not intend to track her or anything of that sort...

[The Beastmaster]

Oh man, don't get me started on MINIs, Chris! :mad I had 3 of them and all of them had problems. However, the MCS had the least amount of trouble. RUN from 02 and 03 models. The 04s are much better. Watch out for premature clutch wear as I had 2 friends that had the clutch go out on their MCS'. One of them had it go out at 800 miles. Stay away from the auto ac as it sucks donkey balls. The sunroof is ~ as it gets really hot inHawaii and the heat just rips into the car! GET the mfsw as it is great!

Also, I do not believe there is a CPO program for the MINI.

[Sebaflex]

True, good point.

Does anyone know if the LSD is a 'must-have' option? I will be driving mainly highway miles and do not intend to track her or anything of that sort...


I would only call LSD a "must-have" if you track/autox the car..

It will not make any difference @ highway speeds..

[The Beastmaster]

Well, take a look at this! :eek:

http://www.jdpa.com/presspass/pr/images/2005089a.gif

[Koopah]

From the J.D. Power Website:

"...The Vehicle Dependability Study measures problem symptoms of 3-year-old vehicles, primarily in categories representing malfunctions; noise, vibration and harshness; driveability; dependability; and safety. The VDS is one of three J.D. Power and Associates quality metrics, along with the Initial Quality Study (IQS), which measures quality after 90 days of ownership, and the Automotive, Performance, Execution and Layout (APEAL) Study, which measures customer perceptions on the design, content, layout and performance of their new vehicles..."

Thus, the data that has been graphed is for the 2002 MINI; this was also the year of the MINI's introduction. IMHO, it would be very rare to encounter a new model introduction that did not have a number of issues.

Also, note than in October of 2004, J.D. Powers released their "Automotive Performance, Execution and Layout Study" that, according to their website: "...measures owner delight with the design, content, layout and performance of their new vehicles...". Here is the graph of that data:

http://www.jdpa.com/presspass/pr/images/2004150a.gif

One of the best things about the internet it the accessibility of data that can help one to evaluate considerations when making important decisions. However, that accessability does not eliminate the need to perform validating research and to carefully qualify the data.

FWIW,

Theo

[1996 328ti]

One of the best things about the internet it the accessibility of data that can help one to evaluate considerations when making important decisions. However, that accessability does not eliminate the need to perform validating research and to carefully qualify the data.Despite the problems my wife loves the car. Most MINI owners overlook some of the annoying problems. Some are in denial about problems. We are not sorry we bought it. I just wish service was more convenient. It only had to be flat bedded to the dealer once with a major electrical problem. The car was a week old. I will say we have had more build issues on our 2003 MCS than I did with my 1998 318ti (RIP). I don't expect to get the mileage from the MINI as I am with my current 1996 328ti. I have amost 200000 miles and just don't see the MINI lasting as long. We keep cars until they can no longer be driven and then some. I really hate the gray headliner and pillars. I guess it is to make the car look bigger inside. It gets dirty easily.

[Koopah]

Despite the problems my wife loves the car. Most MINI owners overlook some of the annoying problems. Some are in denial about problems...{snip}

I think you are right about this. For many people, owning and driving a MINI is a unique experience. The pleasure of driving it can overcome the irritation of a few problems. And, yes, I do know folks who are in denial about issues found in the 2002 and 2003 model years.

There were some real issues with the design and build during the MINI's first two years; and, to be honest, at times MINI was very slow to acknowledge and address these issues. Your yo-yo is a case in point. Unfortunately, the yo-yo is a problem that has MINI in a quandry. It cannot be cured by flashing the ECU since the issue is a result of poor software design in a sensor/controller system that is outside the "reach" of an ECU flash. MINI have done their best to modify ECU settings in an effort to "mask" the yo-yo symptom, but they have not addressed its cause. That would take new sensors/controllers with new code designed to better dampen signalling and the resulting vacuum fluctuations, thus, eliminating the supercharger bypass valve oscillations.


{snip}...It only had to be flat bedded to the dealer once with a major electrical problem...{snip}

I'm only guessing, but was that incident due to the boneheaded engineer who put the power steering and radiator cooling fans on the same fused circuit?

Just a note about my approach to the MINI:

Just like 1996 328ti, I tend to hold on to my cars for a long time. I've owned an '88 528e, an '89 525i and currently drive a '00 328i. Both the 5-series were sold when they were at or over 200,000 miles on them. The 328i has about 75,000 on it and it looks and feels brand new. So I feel somewhat qualified to evaluate how a car feels as it ages.

When I bought my MINI, I knew I was not buying a "small BMW". In fact, having owned and maintained a number of British sports cars over the ages, I was expecting that I would be buying a Triumph, MG, Austin or Rover with, hopefully, better reliability due to the Teutonic influences. Thus, I never compared the MINI to my BMWs.

However, I have been pleasantly suprised! After 24,000 miles, the MINI is remarkably tight and trouble free. If anything, its engine performs better now that it ever has (certainly a characteristic of its BMW cousins!). Now 200,000 miles is pretty far down the road, but I bought a MINI not a BMW and, thus, don't expect it to deliver the life expectancy that my 5/3-series are known for.

It occurs to me that perhaps a fair degree of disappointment voiced toward the MINI may be from folks who thought they were buying a small-sized BMW instead of a German-engineered MINI. And, indeed, for those folks, the 1-series would have been (if possible) a better choice.

Theo

[Nimble]

I don't have the time nor desire to post in response to your nicely thought out reply koopah, but it was a good read.

My girlfriend's 03 needed a new ENGINE BLOCK at 19K, yep you read that right, basically a new engine. The block was deformed from the factory, shoot, a Cavalier wouldn't have a block deformed from the factory. That is why her car leaked oil, and after the whole drawn out 2 week process, she gets the car back and the f'er leaks coolant. :mad

The Mini is the bane of my existance. I HATE this car. Slow, loud, harsh, and UNRELIABLE! Stay away! :eek:

And yeah, so all cars worth having are somewhat quirky, but Mini's are worse than most, for what? Good handling? Other cars handle as well in its market.

[Koopah]

Nimble,

Wow! Now that's really something! No wonder you feel the way you do...I'm sure I'd feel the same after that experience. Have you escalated your issues? PM me if you need help.

Sorry,

Theo

[Nimble]

Nimble,

Wow! Now that's really something! No wonder you feel the way you do...I'm sure I'd feel the same after that experience. Have you escalated your issues? PM me if you need help.

Sorry,

Theo


We (my girldfriend and I) are currently writing a letter to Mini about her cars problems. We still need to locate a address to send it to though, maybe you could help there?

[murdoc158]

I don't have the time nor desire to post in response to your nicely thought out reply koopah, but it was a good read.

My girlfriend's 03 needed a new ENGINE BLOCK at 19K, yep you read that right, basically a new engine. The block was deformed from the factory, shoot, a Cavalier wouldn't have a block deformed from the factory. That is why her car leaked oil, and after the whole drawn out 2 week process, she gets the car back and the f'er leaks coolant. :mad

The Mini is the bane of my existance. I HATE this car. Slow, loud, harsh, and UNRELIABLE! Stay away! :eek:

And yeah, so all cars worth having are somewhat quirky, but Mini's are worse than most, for what? Good handling? Other cars handle as well in its market.


I cannot believe that you didn't have "unreliable" and "Cavalier" next to each other where they belong. I can honesly say that you are the first person I've heard of to have such a major issue with your Mini. However, this is still NO reason to describe a Cavalier as a "reliable"car. The MCS is faster than a Cavalier Z24, has less squeaks, rattles, hums, and doesn't have an interior from 1984. If the Mini is that bad, why don't you just sell it and buy your Cavalier. Make sure the dealer includes about 4 alternators in the truck for you, as those have been known to just fall-out for no reason. And lest we not forget, the famous "flaming steering column mod". This is done by:
1. Insert key into ignition switch
2. Turn key to "START" position
3. Sit back and watch the sparks from underneath your dashboard, ignite the carpeting and fry the entire wire harness.
4. Exit smoking vehicle.
5. Call the local Fire Department
6. Say to the firefighters, "This car is so safe and reliable."
7. Sell that new Cavalier that you paid $15,000 for, drove less than a year, and replaced 3 alternators in for the blue-book value of $7,000

I find it hard to believe, that the "unreliable" Mini has the highest resale percentage (over 70%) of ANY vehicle in production today. You should talk to the dealer about a lemon law if possible. Seriously, if it's THAT bad quit crying about it, and sell it to someone who really WANTS it.

....rant over....

[MandaBoo]

The Mini is the bane of my existance. I HATE this car. Slow, loud, harsh, and UNRELIABLE! Stay away! :eek:From your post it is easy to tell that you have not had the best experience with MINI's, and from frequently visiting MINI only forums I have heard of maybe 1 or 2 other MINI lemons. You have to realize that every car manufacturer produces a lemon from time to time and unfortunately it sounds like you may have ended up with one and you need to aggressively persue the possibility of having it lemoned.

For Preppy, I am happy that I waited until the MINI was out for a few years before I got one. If going for a used one, I would agree with others about trying to find an '04 or later. You might consider though that unless you can find an incredible deal on an '04, you may be better off trying to find the funds for an '05 or '06 as the resale on an '04 is still pretty high. But if you can find a good price on an '04, jump on it and have fun

[murdoc158]

As a note: The color Liquid Yellow will not be an option for the type S model in 2006. Yellow will still be offered on base Cooper models, and convertible models. Thus my wife wanting a yellow MCS, we are placing our order this weekend. :)

[MandaBoo]

I seriously considered getting a yellow one, but our Evo is yellow and i thought 2 yellow cars was a bit overkill

Also, I know that the gold color is going away :buttrock
And there will be a couple new colors like another red, a bronze-gray and another blue. I think there are more but I'm too lazy to go look it up right now

[The Beastmaster]

From your post it is easy to tell that you have not had the best experience with MINI's, and from frequently visiting MINI only forums I have heard of maybe 1 or 2 other MINI lemons. You have to realize that every car manufacturer produces a lemon from time to time and unfortunately it sounds like you may have ended up with one and you need to aggressively persue the possibility of having it lemoned.

For Preppy, I am happy that I waited until the MINI was out for a few years before I got one. If going for a used one, I would agree with others about trying to find an '04 or later. You might consider though that unless you can find an incredible deal on an '04, you may be better off trying to find the funds for an '05 or '06 as the resale on an '04 is still pretty high. But if you can find a good price on an '04, jump on it and have funI had 2 Lemons. :(

[sirtiger]

I am surprise that there are these issues with the MCs, very enlightening.

[xjohnx]

There is no doubt that the runflat tires give a pretty harsh ride due to their very stiff sidewall. That in combination with the 45mm sidewall height will not give you a "boulevard" ride. Throw into the mix the tight suspension of the MCS and you have a setup that is designed for performance rather than touring. One of my friends has a new Corvette with the runflats and bought new tires (and a mobility kit) after 1 month of ownership.

The sidewalls are not 45mm. the 45 in the 205/45/17 is an aspect ratio, meaning that the sidewall height is 45% of the width of the tire (205mm). thus, making the sidewall approximately 92mm.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=46&currentpage=33

[kapolani]

I should chime in here.

I had an 02 - EB/B MCS.

I put about 25k miles on it before I got rid of it for my Evo.

I had two problems - one - power steering fan went out (known problem) - two - leaking coolant overflow tank (known problem). That car was my daily driver and other than those two problems the car was flawless. I really enjoyed the car - got tired of it - and just wanted something new.

I do agree that there were problems with the early models, but none of the problems I had made me dislike the car.

It's a cool car with some great handling characteristics.

Motor on!

[Koopah]

The sidewalls are not 45mm. the 45 in the 205/45/17 is an aspect ratio, meaning that the sidewall height is 45% of the width of the tire (205mm). thus, making the sidewall approximately 92mm.

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/techpage.jsp?techid=46&currentpage=33

Absolutely! My bad...

Sorry,

Theo

[Preppy]

Okay, back to this thread :)

So what mods void factory warranty on the MCS?

[mace]

bolt-on's do not (intake, header, exhaust), anything else voids.

[Koopah]

Okay, back to this thread :)

So what mods void factory warranty on the MCS?


bolt-on's do not (intake, header, exhaust), anything else voids.

Not quite. There are no specific mods that are "sanctioned" by MINIUSA as ok (including bolt-ons!) unless they are manufactured and installed by MINI (or JCW). Therefore, technically, everything else can get you into warranty trouble.

However, in a warranty claim situation with a MINI that has been modded, the burden of proof is on MINI to conclusively prove that the aftermarket item was directly responsible for the failure. Thus, you enter into a litigious process with MINI to settle your claim.

Even the Dinan stuff sold at MINI dealerships is technically aftermarket and, thus, can void the MINI warranty. However, like with Dinan's BMW products, Dinan will step in to cover the warranty issues, thus getting around the MINI/BMW warranty exposure.

Theo

[Preppy]

Damn JCW and Dinan stuff is so expensive...

[Koopah]

Damn JCW and Dinan stuff is so expensive...

Hey, I hear you!

For 2006, MINI will be offering a John Cooper Works package from the factory for $6300 on top of your chosen MCS configuration. This is close to what you would pay to have just the JCW engine kit put on a pre-2006 MCS from the dealer. However, for the $6300 factory charge, you also get the limited-slip differential and the JCW big brake kit thrown in. Yeah, it's expensive but essentially you're geting these items (at least the BBK and the engine kit) for their current parts cost and not paying the additional dealer installation costs.

What kind of mods were you contemplating, Preppie?

Theo

[mace]

Well on the contrary if the dealer does state that this "mod" voids your warranty, according to Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, the dealer will need to prove that the mod is what affected the defective part. In other words, intake, header, and exhaust cannot affect the engine because 1) intake actually allows the engine to breathe easier (better MPG) at the cost of louder noise and 2) header & exhaust both at the receiving end of engine breathability so those two can't affect anything.

[Preppy]

Mace, right, I get ya, but if i were to do cams or pulleys...then that would be directly affecting the engine/sc...it's a really fuzzy line there...

Koopah, not sure, I'm definitely counting all 2392389472389479 of my chickens before they hatch (read: no MCS yet), but I'd like to do intake, and exhaust first, then do pulley's once warranty is up. I figure if anything does go wrong while under warranty, I can easily swap on/off the intake and exhaust, but the pulleys would be more of a bitch.

So should I go with UUC or Invidia exhaust? Invidia's titanium tips are badass :)

[mace]

Invidia all the way!!! As a matter of fact, I'm getting one soon!! :)

[Preppy]

May I ask where you got it from and for roughly how much?

[mace]

I'm getting one soon. When I do, it's gonna be from ebay cuz it's the cheapest I found on the Internet.

In addition, if you do a search on northamericanmotoring.com, someone posted clips of their Invidia. It sounds the closest to a G35 as it can get.

[murdoc158]

From my experience, most bolt-ons (intake, header, exhaust, throttle-body) won't void your warranty. Pulleys, cams, internals of any kind will definatly void the warranty. Software might, but that is easily removed before your trip to the dealer. Best advice, check with your dealer(try to make a friend with a service writer or mechanic) before you start installing stuff.

[Preppy]

I'm getting one soon. When I do, it's gonna be from ebay cuz it's the cheapest I found on the Internet.

In addition, if you do a search on northamericanmotoring.com, someone posted clips of their Invidia. It sounds the closest to a G35 as it can get.
Hmm yeah, thats where I've been looking too. Let's make sure we're not betting against each other when the time comes to it shall we?? That would be most unfortunate.

Murdoc, yes, I definitely will be asking my sales guy and trying to be on the good side of the mechanics and service guys.

[kapolani]

Okay, back to this thread :)

So what mods void factory warranty on the MCS?

Preppy -

Call Sterling Mini.

When I had my MCS - they had package deals going on. They were upgrade stages.

You could also 'choose' items from the package and they will install them for you. It may cost a little more, but back when I did it - all work was done with the warranty intact.

I got a pulley job done by them - backed by Sterling Mini.

No hassels and no problems.

[MandaBoo]

Kapolani,

Be careful about the warranty from dealer installed options as your warrany may be good at the dealer that performed the work, but may not be valid at other dealers. If you don't move far away its fine, but can be a problem if you aren't close to home

[Preppy]

I am going to have to call Main Line Mini in Philly, as I will be living in Philly beginning next month.

[Koopah]

Well on the contrary if the dealer does state that this "mod" voids your warranty, according to Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, the dealer will need to prove that the mod is what affected the defective part.

I believe that is exactly what I said.


In other words, intake, header, and exhaust cannot affect the engine because 1) intake actually allows the engine to breathe easier (better MPG) at the cost of louder noise and 2) header & exhaust both at the receiving end of engine breathability so those two can't affect anything.

Well, here's where we differ. I believe the words "cannot" and "can't" are not absolutely accurate from both an engineering and realistic basis. What about intakes and headers being torqued too tight or unevenly. You have reasoned that those mods cannot affect the engine but I'll bet that a determined forensic engineer who is hired as an expert witness by MINIUSA might not agree with you! Do you what to spend the money to hire an expert witness of your own to refute the issue?

IMHO, all I'm saying is that I would rather not push any warranty issue into a possible state of litigation and incur big bucks for a defense whatever the reason. But then again, I am rather risk-averse when it come to these things. Many other folks will feel comfortable accepting this risk and that's fine too. Just be aware that the risk exists!

[mace]

Preppy: actually i'm picking up this minimania.com header and invidia exhaust this coming weekend. So you can feel free to bid on the exhaust and be assured that there will be one less bidder. :D I can't wait to see/hear the results!

Koopah: i see where you're coming from. it's just a matter of personal opinion imho. I for one understand the risks involved. However, I have a personal friend who is a mechanic and owns a shop and he installs everything for me for free (well, maybe some bobas :D) Anyhow, he is a certified BMW & Mercedes mechanic so he knows his torque limits just by the "feel" of it. Of course, just by his feel is not an absolute measurement of the exact torque spec, but it is close enough where the part won't fall off or do some catastrophic damage. When I ask him to install something, I am rest assured that it will be done right and it does. Thanks for (your) clarification though.

[Preppy]

Does anyone know why the Bentley Manual for the Mini only goes up to 2004?

[Koopah]

Does anyone know why the Bentley Manual for the Mini only goes up to 2004?

I spoke with the Bentley folks in June about this same issue. 2005 MINIs had some changes that will require editing of the existing material. I believe a new manual transmission was fitted to the MC and new gear ratios were given to the MCS. Also, I believe some of the Tritec motor for the MCS was modified to slightly jack-up the performance. Other incidental changes were made and wiring diagrams were added to/modified.

Evidently, Bentley is in the editing process now, but I was not able to get a publication date from them. You can shoot them a message on their website (bentleypublishers.com) and get notified if/when they announce plans for release.

Remember, the MINI line will have significant changes to the body and the engine in 2007. Thus, playing devil's advocate, one might argue that the 2007 line ought to be their focus. I would think they might be compelled to update the existing manual though.

Theo

[kapolani]

Kapolani,

Be careful about the warranty from dealer installed options as your warrany may be good at the dealer that performed the work, but may not be valid at other dealers. If you don't move far away its fine, but can be a problem if you aren't close to home

Yes that is true.

I should have been more clear.

Since I was/am staying in the area - I felt that this was a valid option for me if I wanted to mod the MCS.

It was only covered by sterling Mini (which I got in writing).

The best bet is to build a healthy rapport with your service advisor.

[Preppy]

I spoke with the Bentley folks in June about this same issue. 2005 MINIs had some changes that will require editing of the existing material. I believe a new manual transmission was fitted to the MC and new gear ratios were given to the MCS. Also, I believe some of the Tritec motor for the MCS was modified to slightly jack-up the performance. Other incidental changes were made and wiring diagrams were added to/modified.

Evidently, Bentley is in the editing process now, but I was not able to get a publication date from them. You can shoot them a message on their website (bentleypublishers.com) and get notified if/when they announce plans for release.

Remember, the MINI line will have significant changes to the body and the engine in 2007. Thus, playing devil's advocate, one might argue that the 2007 line ought to be their focus. I would think they might be compelled to update the existing manual though.

Theo
Ah, that would make a lot of sense. Yeah, is 2007 jus ta facelift, or is it an entire redesign?

[Koopah]

Ah, that would make a lot of sense. Yeah, is 2007 jus ta facelift, or is it an entire redesign?

It's an entire redesign of the engine, though the body will also have updates to conform with pedestrian safety guidelines (bonnet and wings). There have also been several styling exercises of the cockpit that have been floating around.

The new engine will be the biggest change. MINI will no longer sell the Tritec motor in the MC and the supercharged version in the MCS. It will be replaced with a motor BMW has jointly developed with the help of France's PSA (Peugeot & Citroen). According to MotoringFile, BMW designed the Valvetronic-equipped engine while PSA is contributing to the manufacturing logistics.

As with the current MC-MCS differentiation, the MC will get the normally-aspirated version of the engine while the MCS will get.....wait for it.....a twin-scroll turbocharged engine. Gone is the supercharger.

You can read about the new engine range on the MotoringFile site HERE. (http://www.motoringfile.com/2005/06/22/bmw_and_psa_detail_engine_plans)
The page also has links to some really good engineering information about the engine's detail specifications.

So, I am hoping that we may see an update to the Bentley manual that includes the 2005-2006 models within a year, but it will probably be a couple of years before they are ready with the 2007 version.

On a side note, the geo-political world has changed greatly in 50 years. Germany has purchased a piece of UK industry and is introducing a German/French engine into one of the most British motorcars of the last century! Winston must be spinning in his grave!

FWIW,

Theo

[murdoc158]

2007 MCS is also supposed to include AWD along with the turbo-charged 4 cyl. engine. Depending on how things go, I plan on buying a 2008 and swapping the turbo plus a few other bolt-ons. The motor seems like it will be pretty stout (forged rods, iron sleeves, light weight head) so I plan on shooting for 400whp. :buttrock

[Koopah]

2007 MCS is also supposed to include AWD ...{snip}

While Getrag did, indeed, engineer an AWD prototype drivetrain for the MINI, the prototype was not commissioned by BMW. Thus, it is far from certain that this will be on the 2007 model...or any subsequent year for that matter.

Theo

[Preppy]

Well....if all goes to plan, I should be able to get the mini in the near future...and then work it out to where I can get the new one when it comes out :)