How do engineers feel about modding?

[SilverBeam]

I was thinking about this today, sort of in connection to the why we mod thread.

How do they feel, when after years and years of hard work, devotion, and love for a vehicle that they (probably) believe is near perfection, they send it off to the real world, and in a short amount of time people have figured out how to fix up the suspension, get more power out of the engine, give the shifter shorter throws, or just take thing off all together.

Does it hurt them? Or do they appreciate the constant change and striving to be better?

[bmwman91]

They can probably appreciate legitimate tuning. I bet they are glad to see people bypassing the last-minute smog-pass detuning that gets doen to otherwise well tuned engines. I bet having to comply with smog regs pisses them off most, since they cannot build an engine to the high level of efficiency engineers like to go after. I am an engineer & thats my $.02

[bellavus]

all engineers have to design to restrictions on cost, emissions, marketing....etc. Certain engineers that can be anal and arrogant about their designs would get offended if someone tried to change their origional design, but the majority of engineers would probably appreciate the changes.

[Mad Dragon]

I doubt aerodynamic engineers like seeing gigantic 747 wings slapped on trunks backwards and unpainted super saiyajin street fighter shogun body kits held on with zip-ties. :stickoutt

[Phat Ham]

all engineers have to design to restrictions on cost, emissions, marketing....etc. True. Everything in engineering is a compromise.

[Mister X]

True. Everything in engineering is a compromise.
Yeah, I doubt any of them think their final product is anywhere near perfection.

[Tangent]

I'll bet alot of them look at some of the highly modified cars out there and wish they would have been allowed to send a model to production that way.

[phoenix530]

I believe that a lot of these engineers are glad to see PROPERLY done mods to their work.

All of their work is a compromise between style, form, and function. Cars are engineered to appeal to the masses. That would include buyers that want comfort over performance. A smooth ride over firm cornering.

If they built cars just to appease the performance minded individuals, they wouldn't sell as many and the price would go up. Building "down" to the masses allows them to sell more, and thus keep the price low (if you consider the cost for a BMW low). It's up to us to add on and enhance the performance of our cars.

[bmwman91]

Agreed, Phoenix.

[vik]

I believe that a lot of these engineers are glad to see PROPERLY done mods to their work.

All of their work is a compromise between style, form, and function. Cars are engineered to appeal to the masses. That would include buyers that want comfort over performance. A smooth ride over firm cornering.

If they built cars just to appease the performance minded individuals, they wouldn't sell as many and the price would go up. Building "down" to the masses allows them to sell more, and thus keep the price low (if you consider the cost for a BMW low). It's up to us to add on and enhance the performance of our cars.

As an engineer in the automotive industry, I say: "Word."

Only thing I'd add is that it's a compliment that somebody is so enthusiastic about your work that they spend piles of cash on it. :alright


-vik

[Luftwaffe1O1]

Their skill and determination goes into making the race car variants. Then they get told to build something similar, only with a boatload of restrictions. Hence why mods improve things. You don't think BMW could have released the e46 M3 with their race suspension, brakes, and slapped in an S62? However problems arise with that.

Their target audience might not be too happy always about the overly stiff ride etc. Taxation on the car might be kinda bad etc etc.

[jvit27]

Actually, I think they laugh at the idiots who unengineer their work.

Truth is no one can make the car better than the factory. It might perform better but at the sacrifice of comfort and driveability. The engineers are the ones who found the perfect blend, the enthusiasts are the ones who ruined it.

[Phat Ham]

Actually, I think they laugh at the idiots who unengineer their work.

Truth is no one can make the car better than the factory. It might perform better but at the sacrifice of comfort and driveability. The engineers are the ones who found the perfect blend, the enthusiasts are the ones who ruined it. As an engineer, I laugh at your post.

So you're saying if I go out and buy a Kia there's nothing I can do to make it a better car? I bet you I can make it handle better, go faster, be more comfortable, and last longer. You're forgetting that money plays a huge role in determining what can go into a car.

[gin&tonic]

I believe that a lot of these engineers are glad to see PROPERLY done mods to their work.

All of their work is a compromise between style, form, and function. Cars are engineered to appeal to the masses. That would include buyers that want comfort over performance. A smooth ride over firm cornering.

If they built cars just to appease the performance minded individuals, they wouldn't sell as many and the price would go up. Building "down" to the masses allows them to sell more, and thus keep the price low (if you consider the cost for a BMW low). It's up to us to add on and enhance the performance of our cars.

Exactly. Even Ferrari and Lambo has to compromise on a lot of elements in order to make enough sales to cover costs.

If cars were made for enthusiasts, they would already come with a SSK and coilovers.

[jvit27]

As an engineer, I laugh at your post.

So you're saying if I go out and buy a Kia there's nothing I can do to make it a better car? I bet you I can make it handle better, go faster, be more comfortable, and last longer. You're forgetting that money plays a huge role in determining what can go into a car.

No, I don't give a shit about Kia's and consequently I would never own one. This being a BMW forum, I am referring to BMW.

We can gratuitously assume that a Kia is far from perfection, as SilverBeam stated.

[bellavus]

Actually, I think they laugh at the idiots who unengineer their work.

Truth is no one can make the car better than the factory. It might perform better but at the sacrifice of comfort and driveability. The engineers are the ones who found the perfect blend, the enthusiasts are the ones who ruined it.
As an engineer, I also laugh at that post. A BMW is far from perfection, and there are mix-ups and design flaws that can be corrected with an aftermarket part. No car will leave a factory 100% perfect, design-wise or otherwise.

i.e.:The stock transmission mounts on the E36 are hideously inadequate. They can't support the weight and forces put out by the transmission because they aren't large enough width-wise. Aftermarket TM's are thicker and last longer than stock.

[BabyM]

I bet BMW engineers mod their cars by driving over the the Schnitzer, Hartge and Alpina 'shops'...

My guess is that they are every bit as much enthusiasts as we are --hence their profession. Part of the enjoyment of design is the continual improvements as you tinker with the thing.

[ibrahim83]

Actually, I think they laugh at the idiots who unengineer their work.

Truth is no one can make the car better than the factory. It might perform better but at the sacrifice of comfort and driveability. The engineers are the ones who found the perfect blend, the enthusiasts are the ones who ruined it.

the McLaren F1 is a perfect example of what engineers would do if given the task of building the perfect car without restrictions.

i think engineers appreciate valid mods that acctually improve on what they built on the final product. just don't forget that they have a budget to work with, and they also have to build civil cars that don't need much attention and upkeep, as in engines that perform at a certain level of performance, reliability, using parts that are either already used in other lines or are cheaply manufactured.

they can easily build street monsters that do <15MPG have a 9k redline, and have high HP/liter ratios, handle like a dream, and the list goes on and on. but don't forget that engines and cars that push the envelope wear down parts and need constant maintenance which becomes expensive and unrealistic for an average driver who needs a dependable car.

[EMC]

If engineers had their way, the SRT-4 would come from the factory with a Mopar Stage3 kit. Apply that same idea to every car out there.

I guess it matters what kind of engineer you are. I worked with engineers that couldn't change their own oil. On the other hand, I worked with engineers that design the Stage3 mopar kits and wish the Viper had 800hp. Some people aren't into cars, they just work there because its a secure, good paying job. Those people should be booted out if you ask me. If you don't have a passion for cars, it shows in your end product.

[cosmos4life]

im one and i dont wan to spend any more money on this car beside maintenance,

^im not an ME either but I change my own oil, that ridiculous, an engineer at from an auto company not being able to do that!

[Gofast]

I doubt aerodynamic engineers like seeing gigantic 747 wings slapped on trunks backwards and unpainted super saiyajin street fighter shogun body kits held on with zip-ties. :stickoutt

I don't think anyone likes seeing those. :)

I have to agree that engineers probably like most performance modifications done to cars they designed.
It always hurts when management, financial groups, or some non-engineering entity pulls rank on you and forces you to do something you know is not optimal. All production vehicles are a compromise aimed at a large target audience. Only specialty vehicles like the Porsche GT3 hint at what engineers can do with a car that doesn't need to go grocery shopping.

I also have a lot of artistic skill, but I don't like when basic function is severely compromised for the sake of aestetics.
I heard a "fabricator" on the discovery channel say "You have to have designers, if you let engineers design cars, they'd all be boxes."
To which I say, the function precedes the aestetic in a car. The function is what Makes it a car, not the form. Without designers, cars may be boxes, but without engineers it would be a static sculpture.

[Stephen V]

This makes me think of how unsuccessful compared with large auto-makers Lotus, Caterham, and TVR are. They make cars that are racecars for the street and their companies aren't nearly as successful as companies who make cars for the uninformed masses.