Paging SilverStreak regarding Z3s & S/C

[Z3POWER]

Dave:

I see that you have a Vortech S/C, remaped your ECU, etc. Tons of work. Did you do the work yourself or have some one do it.
I am interested in doing this to my 2.8L (MY00), most likely next year.
Right now I am close of doing all I can do to increase my Hp/Tq with no forced induction and work on the internals of my engine.

Right now I would like to know, how long have you had this mod.
How is the drivability, and do you have a website that has the particulars on the install and the headaches you may have incountered.

Thanks for any information.
:wave:

[SilverStreak]

Hey Nathan!

I'm not ashamed to admit that I didn't do any of the work myself at all. I wanted it done right! :D

I've had my mods since Feb 02, they were installed when the car had about 1400 miles on it, it has about 3800 miles on it now.

Drivability is perfect. If I'm driving normal, revving to 3000-3500 rpm and upshifting so the tach drops back to 2000-2500 rpm in most gears, etc, the car is as smooth as it ever was bone stock. You feel a little extra oomph down low, and you hear the s/c whine a little, but other than that, the car is as smooth and docile and balanced as a stock 3.0. When you get on it an stay on it, it transforms into a beast, though! Dr. Jeckyll and Mr Hyde... :evil2

My wife drove my car one day and when I gave her the command to get on it, she screamed out loud it scared her so much... :D But she'd been driving it for a while that day before she got on it and commented that the car felt no different from before the mods...

I don't have a website for my car at this time.

The biggest and only headaches I encountered was waiting for the work to be done. I was told a couple of days, which became a week, and later became about 2 weeks total. But I was patient, I wanted it done right.

The guys installing it had many headaches though, from following RMS' installation instructions to the placement of things like the fan, relocating components, and they had some software issues.

I paid about a grand extra to have a second shop go over the whole install with a fine tooth comb, further relocate some items, replace clamps, ties, bolts, etc, to secure a better install, and put it thru a very thorough and extensive dyno tune. As far as I can tell, the best $1000 I ever spent...

Let me know if I can answer any other questions for you! :buttrock

[Z3POWER]

Dave:

Thanks for the information. Few more easy questions: you bought your S/C from RMS?
RMS had to reprogram the software to make it work with the Dual VANOs system.
Did you change your cams to change the compression?
Do you have a finish photo of the work.
Finally, what was the $$$ damage, my guess is $10K.

[SilverStreak]

Hey Nathan!

Super long story, when I was getting my car, I factored in a host of Dinan mods from the dealer as part of my purchase price. The GM of the dealer is an old friend of mine going back about 17 yrs now, and the owner of the dealership is an old family friend, he's a patient of my father's, my Dad's an MD, he performed some surgery on him years ago, and the owner's mother too. So I had a bit of a connection.

Anyhow, I ordered the s/c, tb, cai, exhaust, you name it, and since I was getting them all at once with the car, I got good deals on the parts and the labor to install them. The plan was for me to break in my car, 1200 miles, and then bring it back for the mods to be done, the dealership ordered them, etc.

Well after 2 mos of delays, Dinan announces they are not doing an s/c kit for the 3.0 motor. So I was cool about it, so was the dealer, they offered to readjust my pricing, do the cai, tb, exhaust, and software, etc, but I really wanted an s/c.

After some research on my part I saw where RMS used the Vortech as well, and had just completed their 3.0 kit. I called RMS and spoke to Victor at length, and when I mentioned the dealer and my deal with Dinan and all, Osh got involved. Since the 3.0 kit was new he was willing to sell me the 3.0 kit at a special intro price of $5K, but RMS was doing all the installs themselves, and they are in CA, I'm in NJ. Also, I asked about adding an aftercooler later cuz I wanted more than the standard 6 psi, Osh said they don't formally have an aftercooler for the 3.0 kit, but after I pressed and begged, he said he could build one for my car, and if I bought it all at once, the s/c kit and aftercooler kit, he'd sell me the whole shi-bang at $7K. Normally the s/c alone is $6K, and the aftercooler is $2400, so it was a good deal.

I called the owner of the dealership about it, he got on the phone with Osh. Osh was unsure of having others perform the install, and the dealer was unsure of the quality/reliability of the product. But they worked things out.

The Dinan s/c kit was sold to me with my car for $7K, so RMS' kit was the same money, both me and the owner liked that fact. Plus Osh convinced the owner that the aftercooler added security/reliability. So we all got on the same page, against the norm, RMS would ship all the stuff to my dealer, and the Dinan Techs would do the install and initial tune.

I still got the 71 mm TB and exhaust from Dinan (about $1400 parts and install- that's where the $8400 came from), as well as working in Dinan's CAI with the RMS kit. The install took over a week, the Dinan techs were familar with the products, but apparently the install instructions from RMS were horrendous, and much time was spent on the phone with RMS, as well as repositioning some items and tweaking of the software.

Plus I talked Osh into the 7.5 psi pulley since I had the aftercooler on there, so I got a little extra punch. The best part about all of this is that my car still is covered under the warranty, cuz in the original deal, the owner honored the warranty with all the Dinan parts, and he put in writing since he was substituting the RMS kit for the Dinan kit due to late cancellation on Dinan's part, and since Dinan Techs at his dealership would perform the install, his dealership would cover all warranty related items.

Anyhow, after I picked up the car I took it to a specialty shop in Atco, where they basically went over the car with a fine-toothed comb, further repositioned some items, replaced a few clamps, bolts, ties, etc. And then they went into the software and remapped my ECU for a proper tune, fine-tuned/tweaked what the Dinan guys achieved, and gave it a very thorough dyno tune. So I started with RMS software, but it got tweaked by Dinan and customized by the specialty shop- that's why you hear me say it was hybridized and bastardized, etc... :)

The extensive dyno tune added another $950 to my tab, so I guess I'm up around $9300, but I always forget that, the original $8400 was added into the original price of my car, which I got for a hell of a deal, thousands under invoice price, but the $950 for the tune came out of my pocket.

I'm hesitant to mod further at times cuz I don't wanna jeapordize the warranty, I'm fortunuate enough to actually have that at this stage. But I figure if I can swing more psi, like 10, I'll need to match that air with more fuel, larger injectors, and to the naked eye, no one would notice anything at the dealership, the plan was to add those mods and get it re-tuned, do it all at the specialty shop, they quoted me $975 for injectors, 10 psi pulley, parts and install with an extensive dyno tune.

Then all the talk about Aquamist got me thinking about added safety and more power, etc, of course if I do that, it will be obvious I added more mods to the car and may jeopardize my warranty, so that's a decision I'm mulling over right now.

Plus, if I add anymore mods and want to retain the warranty I gotta go with Dinan at my dealer (like gears, lightweight flywheel, clutch, etc), it'll be out of pocket, where my initial mods (sans the tune) are part of my original deal when I got the car, all things for me to consider. Or I could leave my car the way it is, but I doubt that'll happen... :)

[SilverStreak]

Stock cams, and I have some photos, I just gotta get them scanned.

[Z3POWER]

Dave:

Man! you were super lucky on the deal you achived.
On your TB@71mm, I did not know that Dinan made one for the non-MZ3 cars. When did they start supplying one for the non-MZ3s?
As for your H2Omister, that would be a great thing to have for insurance for the hot weather days. Have you asked Dinan to see if they have something like that. This way if your Dinan dealer installs it, it would be under warrenty.
Replacing your clutch, would only be necessary, if you feel it slipping under power, does it? You would be suprised that many of the Roadracing Z3s&MZ3 use their stock units.
All those roadracing guys/gals do replace the flywheel.

If you chose to run 10psi, I would start worrying about the internals of our engines. I would start to look at new springs, valves, etc to allow the engine to handle that type of pressure.

I also saw your rwhp & tq, super impressive. That means your flywheel rating will be 391.7Hp & 354.0Tq dammmmnnnn!!!!
That is power.... on your 2970 race weight, that sounds close to stock. What have you removed from your car (spare tire/hanger, bumper weights, a/c, resonator, etc). Since you stated you have a race weight, I guess you autocross in SM2? or prepared.
How is your competition, I have MR2s, Miatas and vettes running against me. Of course the Mr2& Miatas are force inducted engines. I run a consistent 1st or 2nd at the events.
I have a race set of SSR Comps with Kumhos on a trailer.

Again, thanks for the info, Mr. Hybridized and Bastardized ;)

I hope to see you at HC02 & at Deals Gap, it would be great to see and hear this wonderful car. Do you plan to attend, I remember seeing your post about if speedfreaks like you are welcomed. Well, you are welcomed and if anyone does not like it tell them I invited you...hehehe

Last year that Dinan S/C MZ3 roadster was there. Man what a car. Each year that I have been there (3yrs), it has been better than the last (either by new friends and or events). I love going.

Well, thanks one more time and hope to see you there.

[SilverStreak]

Hey Nathan! Thanks!

Dinan makes the 71mm TB for the 3.0 motor, not sure about some of the other non-M Z3's (like the 2.8, 2.5, 1.9, etc...) :dunno

Dinan does not offer water injection that I know of, but RMS is about to offer an Aquamist System of sorts, so who knows what the future holds. So far my aftercooler seems to be doing really well with any possible heat soak, we've had a few 90 degree days here already and so far so good.

The clutch is solid right now, but if/when it goes, it will get replaced with something more heavy duty, and I'm comtemplating the lightweight flywheel as well.

Yeah, we'll see about the 10 psi thing, Osh at RMS said I'd be fine at 10 psi with my motor (stock compression ratio is 10.2:1), but it's not like I'm lacking power now, so we'll see... :)

I've been told by RMS, Dinan, and others that Z3's only experience about 12.5-13.5% drivetrain loss, so my #'s at the crank are probably more like 365 bhp and 330 ft lbs. Not that I'm complaining... :D

2970 lbs raceweight is with me in the car. And I only drag race, no auto-x. For drag racing I remove my spare tire and mounting apparatus, bumper weights, passenger seat, run the gas tank down to 1/8th a tank, use 100 octane, mount up the drag radials, take 'em down to 16-18 psi, pump up the fronts to 55 psi for less rolling resistance, and routinely launch around 5200-5500 rpms. :evil2

I won't be able to make HC02 or Deals Gap this year due to work and family commitments... :(