Project 325is GT28R

[PathosRx]

:D So I have begun the transformation of my beater 325is into a force fed sleeper.

John Vataj of Powerplant Motorsports in Poughkeepsie, NY is the person primarily responsible for the transformation as well as his key techs Joe and Brett.

We are bolting on the TSI turbo kit from turbo-kits.com. It comes with a GT28BB. We are using 30 # injectors; otherwise stock fuel and ignition system. For tuning we are using SMT-6 piggyback.

Before we dropped the front subframe we looked at my tie rods, control arms, and ball joints. Needless to say, they were all shot. They are all being replaced along with new CA bushings. We are going to cut the 2 to 1 precat section of the AA track pipe and make a Y pipe flange so that we can use the AA track pipe as a downpipe ... hopefully this will work.

Turbo Smart e-boost to manage our internally wastegated turbo :)

I have some pics from my camera phone .... more pics to come ... sorry about poor quality .... learning how to take pics ...

These are mostly pics of underneath the car ... manifold and turbo pics ... there is a pic of the 2" downpipe that came with the kit that is fitted on the car right now but like i said we are going to use the AA track pipe ...

Any questions ... let me know ... more to follow ...

these are pics of the car on the ground the night before ... then the car on the lift getting stripped ... then oil pan being drained before it is being removed ... and two of the turbo, manifold, and downpipe ...

[PathosRx]

more pics of the turbo and downpipe ... suspension and brakes ... :)

[PathosRx]

few more ...

these last few are of:


1) car on the lift (bad lighting) it is daytime too ;)
2) my TMS RCCA arms
3) my rear subframe TMW reinforcement brackets welded in place
4) TMS differential mounts welded in place

[bimmerpwr]

Good luck with your project! :)

I assume your 325 would have some miles on her? How is engine's health? Check for compression loss yet?

[///3oris]

Yup, good luck, let us know how "bolt-in" it is when it's done.

Boris

[highboostingm3]

Hey good for you! Finally somebody that is giving feedback on this kit and taking pictures to document. Good luck with it and I can't wait to see the results! :buttrock

[GG///M3]

Carnewbie you have 1 of the best handling e36 325's out, now u'll have the power to go with it. :alright

[ICS Performance]

Congradulations, keep the pictures going, good luck,300rwhp+ on its way. :)

[Captain]

I am also glad to see someone try this, definetely keep posting to keep the thread up if you have made any progress. Good luck.

[viper4490]

holy sparkplugs. A turbo for under 4 grand!!!!! Thank god I found this thread I was thinking about getting a aa turbo and those go for what 8 grand?

[kindtree]

Does anyone know what additional items would have to be purchased in order to use this kit with a 328? I'm assuming the ECU would have to be sharked and all...

[CDCJON551]

good luck, i would love to have a 328 turbo beater :D

[Turbo ///M50]

I wish that turbo would bolt up to my aa mainfold.. I here very good things about it

Good luck with the install



:D So I have begun the transformation of my beater 325is into a force fed sleeper.

John Vataj of Powerplant Motorsports in Poughkeepsie, NY is the person primarily responsible for the transformation as well as his key techs Joe and Brett.

We are bolting on the TSI turbo kit from www.turbo-kits.com. It comes with a GT28BB. We are using 30 # injectors; otherwise stock fuel and ignition system. For tuning we are using SMT-6 piggyback.

Before we dropped the front subframe we looked at my tie rods, control arms, and ball joints. Needless to say, they were all shot. They are all being replaced along with new CA bushings. We are going to cut the 2 to 1 precat section of the AA track pipe and make a Y pipe flange so that we can use the AA track pipe as a downpipe ... hopefully this will work.

Turbo Smart e-boost to manage our internally wastegated turbo :)

I have some pics from my camera phone .... more pics to come ... sorry about poor quality .... learning how to take pics ...

These are mostly pics of underneath the car ... manifold and turbo pics ... there is a pic of the 2" downpipe that came with the kit that is fitted on the car right now but like i said we are going to use the AA track pipe ...

Any questions ... let me know ... more to follow ...

these are pics of the car on the ground the night before ... then the car on the lift getting stripped ... then oil pan being drained before it is being removed ... and two of the turbo, manifold, and downpipe ...

[Def]

Congradulations, keep the pictures going, good luck,300rwhp+ on its way. :)


Nice setup, but I'd have to say you're probably never going to see 300rwhp+ out of a GT28R. They just don't have the compressor flow(max out at about 31lbs/min).

The highest I've seen out of one was 301rwhp on an SR20 - and that required 17-18 psi which is a bit too much for it. They seem to be able to handle about 290-300rwhp max'd out most times. Should be good to about 9-10 psi on your M52, but will spool up like yesterday.

Make sure you have a good intercooler if you turn up the boost, that lil' sucker will get hot at higher boost(I know, I've got a T25 which has a 6mm smaller compressor wheel!!!).

[BMW Rob]

I was wondering what other mods had to be done so your engine can handle the turbo safely? Or can you put on a turbo with no mods?

[EpDarks]

^
You can safely, albiet modestly, turbo your stock motor. 7-9 PSI would be safe, especially coming out of a small turbo. I think one of the common misconceptions is that internal engine modification is needed with all turbo setups.

Someone on this forum made 500+ Hp, stock S52 down to the headgasket. It has a lot to due with tuning and the setup.

[T-Rex]

Nice setup, but I'd have to say you're probably never going to see 300rwhp+ out of a GT28R. They just don't have the compressor flow(max out at about 31lbs/min).

The highest I've seen out of one was 301rwhp on an SR20 - and that required 17-18 psi which is a bit too much for it. They seem to be able to handle about 290-300rwhp max'd out most times. Should be good to about 9-10 psi on your M52, but will spool up like yesterday.

Make sure you have a good intercooler if you turn up the boost, that lil' sucker will get hot at higher boost(I know, I've got a T25 which has a 6mm smaller compressor wheel!!!).
heh, you said it before I did. Why did you choose to go with a GT28R instead of a GT30R? the GT30 would be much better suited to your application, unless you plan on only running 8-10 pounds. If that is the case however, as def said, you're gonna spool at like 2500 rpms :D

[///3oris]

^
You can safely, albiet modestly, turbo your stock motor. 7-9 PSI would be safe, especially coming out of a small turbo. I think one of the common misconceptions is that internal engine modification is needed with all turbo setups.

Someone on this forum made 500+ Hp, stock S52 down to the headgasket. It has a lot to due with tuning and the setup.

Actually, 7-8psi would probably be more safe coming out of a larger turbo. More efficiency, less heat and much easier to tune (at least with the stock ECU).

Whoever made 500hp+ wasn't using a GT28R, guaranteed.

Boris

[BMW Rob]

Hey guys what do you mean when you say your turbo will spool? This is all new to me.

[MrBlonde]

Someone on this forum made 500+ Hp, stock S52 down to the headgasket. It has a lot to due with tuning and the setup.
On C16 .. not pump fuel.

[///3oris]

Hey guys what do you mean when you say your turbo will spool? This is all new to me.

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/turbo.htm

Main Entry: 2spool
Function: verb
transitive senses
1 : to wind on a spool
2 : WIND <spool the thread off the bobbin>
intransitive senses
1 : to wind itself on a spool
2 : WIND

Boris

[BMW Rob]

Thanks

[gielamonster]

What's the cheapest price on just a turbo manifold? And how is the clearance down under there?

[themadhatter]

I'm interested in seeing how this kit really works out. what additional items (if any) did you have to get to make it a complete kit?

-Ron

[GG///M3]

I'm interested in seeing how this kit really works out. what additional items (if any) did you have to get to make it a complete kit?

-Ron

I think he's using an smt6, 30lbs injectors, vacmotorsports oil cooler kit, and a few other parts not sure. I will also be going with a non name brand kit on my s50'd e30, but i will end up using a gt30 or a gt30r turbo. :D

[DefactoM6]

What's the cheapest price on just a turbo manifold? And how is the clearance down under there?

You can get a turbonetics manifold for good $$$ numbers...

[Geno325is]

Good to hear that the install is going well, but get a decent camera. The phone-pic resolution is killn me... lol

[96bmwcosmosm3]

oooo i am very intrested in the turbo kit for the M3 anyways tell me how everything goes and how you like it thanks
mario

[PathosRx]

hey guys ... the install is moving along ...

here r some more pics of the various parts being put on my car ...

should have a digi camera by tomorrow but until then bear with me ...

[PathosRx]

some more pics ...

various underneath the car and one in the engine bay ...

[PathosRx]

one more ... i liked how this one came out ... the best view yet in my opinion ... it was hard to get my hand behind the rack and pinion to get this shot with the oil cooler out of the car ...

:D

[DBloc181]

Wow finally someone with the heart to give this kit a try.
I hope everything goes well because your giving alot of
people hope for a good budget kit. :alright

[PathosRx]

Guys ... I am selling my AA track pipe and exhaust ...

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=340855

[PathosRx]

some more pics ...

The first three are pics of my VAC racing oil filter housing ... :D

The second two are of the VAC oil pan baffle sitting so snugly in it's new home ... Mr. Oil Pan ... :alright

[GG///M3]

Nice pics, i think i'll stop by this weekend and check out whats new. :)

[BMW Rob]

hey guys what engine modifications do you suggest with a turbo kit? Bigger fuel injectors? Cams? Exhaust? Fuel pressure regulator? What has to be done so your engine will run properly with a turbo? Or can you just put a turbo on stock, if it is not running over 7-8 psi? Thanks.

[Def]

one more ... i liked how this one came out ... the best view yet in my opinion ... it was hard to get my hand behind the rack and pinion to get this shot with the oil cooler out of the car ...

:D

Are you using clear vinyl tubing from Home Depot for your vacuum/boost lines? I sure hope not, that stuff will most likely melt around the exhaust manifold. You need rubber vacuum lines.

[PathosRx]

Hey guys ... GG///M3 was nice enough to lend me his digi cam ...

so now here we go with some more pics ... before and after pics of the oil filter housing ... i purchased the VAC oil cooler kit as i mentioned before with the euro oil filter housing ... that piece looks like a work of art ... it has multiple ports ... even one for a turbo feed ... :devillook

enjoy

btw ... there are some pics with an s2000 with tons of goodies on it ... mostly a GT30 producing ~450 rwhp and is slotted to be in a shoot by modified mag in the next couple of weeks.

[PathosRx]

more pics ... s2000 included

[PathosRx]

look at that manifold ... hehe

[Mikea]

I would get a MLS head gasket from VAC even though you are only running 8psi just to be safe

[GG///M3]

Hey guys ... GG///M3 was nice enough to lend me his digi cam ...

so now here we go with some more pics ... before and after pics of the oil filter housing ... i purchased the VAC oil cooler kit as i mentioned before with the euro oil filter housing ... that piece looks like a work of art ... it has multiple ports ... even one for a turbo feed ... :devillook

enjoy

btw ... there are some pics with an s2000 with tons of goodies on it ... mostly a GT30 producing ~450 rwhp and is slotted to be in a shoot by modified mag in the next couple of weeks.

Nice pics.. :stickoutt

[highboostingm3]

YES! :buttrock Awesome new pics! That manifold doesn't look that bad at all! Can't wait to see more! :redspot

[M50POWER]

look at that manifold ... hehe

Thats the manifold that came out of that kit? Im impressed! Thank you for paving the way and trying that kit. We are all anxious to see the results.

[GG///M3]

Thats the manifold that came out of that kit? Im impressed! Thank you for paving the way and trying that kit. We are all anxious to see the results.

Yep some of the hardware in that kit isn't bad. :alright

[a4rings]

You can definitely get 300+ hp out of a gt28rs, they are good for alot more power then that, there are countless numbers of 1.8t gti's and a4's that have well above 300+ fwhp and there are a few guys with upwards of 400awhp on their a4's, all using a gt28rs.

[DK325IS]

How many miles on your 325iS engine (If you dont mind me asking)? What does installation normally cost (roughly if anyone has had a kit installed already)? Looks great! When its complete and running, try to get a video posted to show us all! :buttrock

[highboostingm3]

What does installation normally cost (roughly if anyone has had a kit installed already)?
For a kit that is sorta similiar...it cost $1000 labor to install from my experience.

[Turbo ///M50]

Nice Job.... Im waiting to see how well it performs.... I love those garret turbos.. the spool hella fast and make good power to boot

What PSI are you going to run?

[DBloc181]

The kit looks great man,can't wait until its time for me too boost.Cranewbie i tried to respond to your pm but this stupid int explorer kept sending an error message when i would try to send it.When i get a chance i would try to send it through msn.

[Geno325is]

Pics are way better now! keep us posted-

Mike had a good suggestion about that MLS headgasket, you should get one if you plan on bumping up the boost. Boost is addictive :devillook

[GG///M3]

Pics are way better now! keep us posted-

Mike had a good suggestion about that MLS headgasket, you should get one if you plan on bumping up the boost. Boost is addictive :devillook

What kit ru using on your car? :)

[Geno325is]

Its just a homemade kit I threw together-

[DBloc181]

Its just a homemade kit I threw together-


How much power are you putting out & how much boost are you running?
Are you also running with the 2.5 motor still?

[highboostingm3]

I was just wondering that if you went to Nick G. for his special MAF, would he sell you software tuning for this kit? Just saying that if somebody wanted to boost 8 PSI or wanted to lower CR with the MLS Cometic HG/ARP studs and boost 15PSI. Maybe they could get the special MAF from Nick, larger injectors and have a chip made. :devillook

This is looking very promissing for all the guys out there that want turbo but just can't afford $8K+. :buttrock

[Def]

You shouldn't need to really lower your CR with this turbo. It just can't push enough air to make it necessary to extract its full potential.

I'd say 8 psi would be a good level for it on a 2.5L engine, and maybe a high boost setting of 10 psi with a bit of race gas mixed in. That should just about max out the compressor.

[highboostingm3]

You shouldn't need to really lower your CR with this turbo. It just can't push enough air to make it necessary to extract its full potential.

I'd say 8 psi would be a good level for it on a 2.5L engine, and maybe a high boost setting of 10 psi with a bit of race gas mixed in. That should just about max out the compressor.
Oh for sure with the GT28R. But one could do the small upgrade to a GT30R or sell the GT28R online and buy whatever T3/T4 they wanted. Like a TO4E 60-1. Then the turbo could handle much more boost. The manifold is cast & looks way better than I thought it would be.

If they did that, then they could do the lower CR with HG and possibly use Nick G.(I would hope...big assumption here) for tuning using larger injectors and his special MAF.

Just saying that it could be a nice platform for those people that can't afford even the TT kit nor especially the AA kit.

For the DIY guys this would actually start them off a lot cheaper without having to learn how to weld and all that.

[Def]

The GT28R has a T25 turbine on it, so no go on bolting up a GT30R or anything like that.

The difference between a T25 and T3 turbine inlet is far more drastic than just the bolt pattern. The size of the inlet is way different.


That said, you can get some pretty decent turbos that bolt up to the T25 manifold. Some of the T25 turbine based GT series can push a solid 350-400rwhp, so there is an upgrade path. But beyond that you are stuck needing a new manifold.

[highboostingm3]

The GT28R has a T25 turbine on it, so no go on bolting up a GT30R or anything like that.

The difference between a T25 and T3 turbine inlet is far more drastic than just the bolt pattern. The size of the inlet is way different.


That said, you can get some pretty decent turbos that bolt up to the T25 manifold. Some of the T25 turbine based GT series can push a solid 350-400rwhp, so there is an upgrade path. But beyond that you are stuck needing a new manifold.
Great info! :alright

So I wonder what they expect you to do since they offer the GT30R upgrade. :dunno

[Def]

Hrmmm... maybe they make an adapter plate? But the T25 inlet is way smaller than the T3 inlet, so you'd be losing lots of efficiency there with the big step up in size.

Do they offer a T3 flanged exhaust manifold? If you're planning on upgrading to a big turbo down the line, then it might be smarter to just go with that and run a smaller T3 to start with. Can't see how else they'd do it since the flanges are simply not compatable.


BTW - only reason I know so much about T25 turbine stuff is because my car's stock manifold has that flange(and I have a straight dinky 54mm compressor T25 as my stock turbo) - so lots of SR guys have upgraded to just about every turbo that uses a T25 turbine.

A GT2871R with a 0.86 A/R turbine would be a pretty sweet turbo for a M50B25 though. Would do 350rwhp pretty easily(same compressor as the GT30R I think - 71mm 56 trim compressor wheel), and the 0.86 A/R turbine would give you a bit more space to flow all the exhaust gas. If you went for higher boost, 400rwhp is possible, but it's at the limits of the turbine as far as flow goes. Highest I've seen is about 390rwhp on an SR from this turbo, and that's at ~19-20 psi(the 325 would do it at lower boost). This turbo costs about $1.1k from most places, dual ball bearing GT stuff.

[highboostingm3]

Hrmmm... maybe they make an adapter plate? But the T25 inlet is way smaller than the T3 inlet, so you'd be losing lots of efficiency there with the big step up in size.

Do they offer a T3 flanged exhaust manifold? If you're planning on upgrading to a big turbo down the line, then it might be smarter to just go with that and run a smaller T3 to start with. Can't see how else they'd do it since the flanges are simply not compatable.


BTW - only reason I know so much about T25 turbine stuff is because my car's stock manifold has that flange(and I have a straight dinky 54mm compressor T25 as my stock turbo) - so lots of SR guys have upgraded to just about every turbo that uses a T25 turbine.

A GT2871R with a 0.86 A/R turbine would be a pretty sweet turbo for a M50B25 though. Would do 350rwhp pretty easily(same compressor as the GT30R I think - 71mm 56 trim compressor wheel), and the 0.86 A/R turbine would give you a bit more space to flow all the exhaust gas. If you went for higher boost, 400rwhp is possible, but it's at the limits of the turbine as far as flow goes. Highest I've seen is about 390rwhp on an SR from this turbo, and that's at ~19-20 psi(the 325 would do it at lower boost). This turbo costs about $1.1k from most places, dual ball bearing GT stuff.

That's great information. Well the 2 people that I know who want this are going for small hp. One just wants to barely beat stock e36 M3's. So there is plenty of turbo for that with the T25 manifold.

The other thing to consider is that this kit is so cheap, you could get the Turbonetics manifold for another $600 and if you subtracted the fuel setup for this kit you get $400 off so the balance is only +$200. Then you would have a true T3 flange for mega boost! :alright

Below is the picture they have off their site. There is some sort of attachment on the exhaust manifold (cicled in red). Not sure if this is for a T3 flange or if it's one of those wastegate flange attachments. You know what I'm talking about. Although this places the turbo very low which will cause other problems with oil return. Hence, going back to my statement of just buying the Turbonetics manifold instead and maybe even selling this T25 exhaust manifold and GT28R on ebay and getting some money back. :redspot

Still, 300rwhp for a 325 BMW is quite an impressive gain considering what this all would cost.

http://img56.echo.cx/img56/3564/t25mani29fd.jpg

[PathosRx]

ok guys ... i have a few more pics of the underside of my car.

The emphasis in these stills is the amount of space from the exhaust manifold to my new addition ... Mr. X-brace ... looks like the xbrace can easily mount without any mounting modifications with this small turbo ... so this kit will fit its purpose for me ... :devillook

I have pondered the idea of upgrading the T25 style flanged (internally wastegated) GT line ... GT28RS, GT2871R, or GT25/40R. There is a new one that particularly caught my eye ... the GT28RS with the GT28R compressor housing ... hmm the "punch" of the GT28RS with the fit of the GT28R an easy upgrade in this kit IMO (one can keep the intake and charge piping of this kit) :).

But alas, I am sticking with this kit for now ... I bought it for a couple of purposes and it should more than fulfill those for me.

[PathosRx]

Ah .. the gauges are in place ...

[PathosRx]

This is the kind of work that recent Wyotech grad Joe Stan all did custom for a civic at Powerplant's base. He did the manifold (he had to use ubends for now because his tig welder was lost in a home fire and he is awaiting the insurance compensation to buy a new one), the 3" turbo back, all the intercooler, intake, and charge piping, the blowoff valve adapter flange, and the wastegate flange and dump piping.

Joe will be the man for my custom 3" downpipe from the turbo to the inlet on the euro cat of my AA track pipe ... we found a flange that will easily fit.

He will also be the man for Stage 2 on my car ... yes yes ... the ideas are already rolling in ... :devillook

[Def]

A GT28RS is barely a step up from your turbo. Same size compressor wheel and turbine wheel, but a larger housing on both and a slightly updated wheel design on the compressor. Instead of maxing out at about 300rwhp, it'll do ~315-320rwhp(more efficient at higher boost), but it'll have a few hundred RPM more lag due to the 0.86 A/R turbine housing - which is unnecessary for this size compressor.

Go with the GT2871R if you're going to upgrade. It's a good solid turbo, and the 0.86 A/R version on a 2.5L engine will spool up just fine. The compressor definitely has enough headroom for 400rwhp.

[themadhatter]

Ah .. the gauges are in place ...
that looks pretty good, better then I thought it would. where did you pick up the A pillar pods from? Is that a double and single setup?

thanks,
Ron

[DefactoM6]

I have the same gauges...actually I have 5 of them + a UEGO for the M6...they're pretty nice...and from the looks of it, that's a 2+1 setup...

[T-Rex]

Damn, so whats the total estimated cost on this? It's around 5k with the kit, GT28R, clutch, and guages if my math is correct. Is my math good, or am I off (over or under if thats the case?). Curious so that more of us 2.5L guys have some options instead of just selling our cars for an M3....

[sentrase00]

OMG... SICK SICK SICK
I cant wait to see this beast done!!!

[highboostingm3]

I have to keep this thread going. It's a good one! Pleasse keep us informed of anything new! :buttrock

[app]

What changes in the TSI kit are necessary to get about 350whp?

Is it enough switching its worthwhile to just completely buy every part separate and go custom like a couple guys on the forum?

[highboostingm3]

What changes in the TSI kit are necessary to get about 350whp?

Is it enough switching its worthwhile to just completely buy every part separate and go custom like a couple guys on the forum?
It actually seems cheaper to buy this kit without the fuel management($2,999), sell the exhaust manifold and turbo, buy the Turbonetics exhaust manifold, machine it for a wastegate, buy a Tial wastegate and a large TO4E 60-1 T3/T4 turbo...then you can have a really nice kit for cheap!

If you want extra tuning for more boost then contact Nick G. for larger injectors, his custom MAF and software chip.

[DefactoM6]

When you get rid of the manifold and turbo, what are you left with? Tiny piping (too small for a decent sized turbo) a comparitively junky intercooler (not trashing it, but let's be real here, it's not one of the units sold by guys like EMC, WCR or ICS...) and a pretty much useless blowoff, and a motor mount. At that point, you might as well piece it together custom...I could piece together a hardware kit (wastegate, manifold, turbo, piping, I/C, BPV and connectors) for slightly more than that, and it would be capable of 600 RWHP, no problem (provided fuel and electronics are properly sorted, and the exhaust off the turbo is good). The $/HP ratio of a pieced together hardware kit is much better than doing upgrades to a Tsi kit and selling it...

[highboostingm3]

When you get rid of the manifold and turbo, what are you left with? Tiny piping (too small for a decent sized turbo) a comparitively junky intercooler (not trashing it, but let's be real here, it's not one of the units sold by guys like EMC, WCR or ICS...) and a pretty much useless blowoff, and a motor mount. At that point, you might as well piece it together custom...I could piece together a hardware kit (wastegate, manifold, turbo, piping, I/C, BPV and connectors) for slightly more than that, and it would be capable of 600 RWHP, no problem (provided fuel and electronics are properly sorted, and the exhaust off the turbo is good). The $/HP ratio of a pieced together hardware kit is much better than doing upgrades to a Tsi kit and selling it...
Hey if you can do it then yes! You are absolutely right! That is the way to go. However some that have tried seem to end up spending more than $5K easy and the headaches of doing the piping yourself...there is a price there. It would be nice if someone just sold the piping setup for a turbo kit for our cas. Then piecing a kit together would be a whole different story. I mean, buying the piping would be like buying a manifold at that point. You don't have to make the manifold yourself now right?

Basically the piping kit and the downpipe with wastegate piping are the only things we need on the market. Everything else is pretty much there.

[JeremySuhre]

Im wondering if you could post for us to read....what else you have added to this kit, what chip you are going to run, what fuel set up (the one that came with it for + $400?) and also the total time it has taken for you to install it. Thank you! :redspot

--im really considering doing this to my 325i and i want to kind of have a heads up to what im getting into.

[GG///M3]

When you get rid of the manifold and turbo, what are you left with? Tiny piping (too small for a decent sized turbo) a comparitively junky intercooler (not trashing it, but let's be real here, it's not one of the units sold by guys like EMC, WCR or ICS...) and a pretty much useless blowoff, and a motor mount. At that point, you might as well piece it together custom...I could piece together a hardware kit (wastegate, manifold, turbo, piping, I/C, BPV and connectors) for slightly more than that, and it would be capable of 600 RWHP, no problem (provided fuel and electronics are properly sorted, and the exhaust off the turbo is good). The $/HP ratio of a pieced together hardware kit is much better than doing upgrades to a Tsi kit and selling it...

For the money u really can't go wrong with this kit, the manifold looks almost like an Aa manifold, and the intercooler really isn't that bad. For around 3k you can't really lose. :alright

[JeremySuhre]

i have heard that the t28 is too small....if you use this turbo will you over run the turbo and make too much heat? My goal is really only to gain enough horse power without blowing the motor so looking at like 260bhp....

[Geno325is]

i have heard that the t28 is too small....if you use this turbo will you over run the turbo and make too much heat? My goal is really only to gain enough horse power without blowing the motor so looking at like 260bhp....

If your setup is intercooled, and decent fuel ratio- you can do over 260bhp all day with that T28

[GG///M3]

if a turbo is rated 350 hp @ 1 bar on this setup. You should be able to make some where around 290-300'srwhp with this setup and he's using a really nice oil cooler with his setup and the intercooler isn't to bad. :)

[332 RustBucket]

Hmm, lets see, If I come back pushing over 270rwhp I can't wait to run you on the street!!! :evil2

When is this beast going to be done?

[Dahboo]

Somewhere in the market of 300rwhp would satisfy me for quite awhile.. If this turns out well, I'll probably look into getting it. Keep us updated on how this turns out!

[biggup21]

Please keep us updated on this whole install. I think this will be a HUGE breakthrough for us 325 guys and maybe have some M3 guys running for their money :stickoutt I currently have a 92 non vanos w/ 215,000 on the clock and running super strong still. What would I need to do to the motor to prep it for boost and how much PSI would I need to get 400rwhp?? I would rather use the GT2871R due to its higher potential incase that boost bug gets me after a year or so..... :devillook

[BRUNO]

I can't wait to see when your car is ready. I'm in the market this summer for a turbo kit pushing no less then 350rwhp. Good luck.

[BMW Rob]

Anyone know how the install is going?

[PathosRx]

Just took some more pics tonight after I dropped off a few more goodies ... the gauges are finally installed completely.

I really like how they came out. :D

John Vataj has added his own personal touch ... he still has a few more tricks up his sleeve ... ;) The ideas he throws at me are so refreshing, and he always runs by novel ways of doing things with me so as to at least offer me the option of trying something new. :redspot

The gauges are hooked up to the dimmer and light up only when the parking light or full headlights are turned on. :buttrock

Here they are on :stickoutt

[PathosRx]

Ah yes ... a close up in the dark ... pardon my shaky hand ... all the excitement! :D

[PathosRx]

Another shot of the A pillar ...

[PathosRx]

Lights on! Gotta love stoichiometry for N/A! ;)

[PathosRx]

more ...

[highboostingm3]

hey get some gas in that thang! :lol Looking awesome! Keep up the great work. Can't wait to see how it all ends up! 3 and 3 with the gauges...we think alike! :thumbup:

[PathosRx]

farther back ...

[PathosRx]

Ah .. up close and personal in the dark ... just how i like it ;)

[PathosRx]

Last one is a close up!!! :stickoutt

[PathosRx]

hey get some gas in that thang! :lol Looking awesome! Keep up the great work. Can't wait to see how it all ends up! 3 and 3 with the gauges...we think alike! :thumbup:

Lol true about the gas and impatience ... I hope to start street tuning off the UEGO onto the piggyback by Friday ... ;)

Thanks for the compliments ... I will let John know ... he works really hard ... yah gotta love 3 and 3 ... wouldnt have it any other way ...

We are having difficulty with the e-boost ... looking for a temporary mount until we find the perfect permanent one ... that thing is an an odd ball size ... turns out we have to bore out a 60mm pod to fit it's 62 mm diameter :help

[Geno325is]

Wow, perfect spots for the gauges... first one to do that probably... keep us posted

[GG///M3]

NIce to still haVE the obc still :D

[415memories]

I was wondering how much mileage do u have on your 93 engine?
I have 92 non vanos with about 142,000 was thinking about getting the same kit.

good lucky.

[415memories]

It looks like u have over 200,000 miles.

[Def]

If you guys are curious about what a GT28R powerband looks like, here is one on a 2.0L SR20DET running about 15 psi. This turbo will spool up much quicker on a 2.5L+ engine, make the same power on lower boost, but the ultimate power potential(which is about where this T28 is running) will be about the same.

It makes for a nice snappy powerband - very fun to drive.


The second one is a 0.64 A/R GT2871R on another SR20DET at about 19 psi IIRC(the blue line - the red is a T3/T04e at higher boost). A 0.86 A/R one will probably spool even faster than this on a 2.5L engine, and be able to make a bit more power. This engine is definitely turbine limited since a 0.64 A/R T25 housing is smaller than your fist! It's the same size as the GT28R for reference. The compressor definitely has more to give - this turbo is definitely impressive for a "small frame" turbo.

I also have dynos showing why a GT28RS(Disco Potato) sucks arse if anybody is interested. Just so no one buys into the hype and gets one of those turbos.

Enjoy guys.

[DefactoM6]

Disco Potatos suck? I always heard such good things....school me on why they suck...

[Def]

GT28RS's suck(at least 99% of them sold) because the compressor still uses a small 60mm compressor wheel and a 0.86 A/R turbine housing(what most people buy them with). The turbine is a bit large for the compressor housing, since it's pretty easy to push the 0.64 A/R T25 to the 350-370rwhp range, and the GT28RS compressor can only push about 320rwhp MAX(like outside its efficiency range max).

Plus the cost - the GT28RS costs the exact same as GT2871R from most places, and it basically puts out the SAME power as a GT28R, but will spool about 400-500 RPM later.

Compare this GT28RS dyno the GT28R dyno above. The GT28RS dyno is at a higher boost setting to make more power, since they both have 60mm compressor wheels, they basically make the same power per psi of boost. The GT28RS only has an advantage over the GT28R in that it is more efficient at higher pressure ratios(higher boost), but it still craps out around the same power level approximately.

Notice how late the turbo spools, and how it really doesn't keep the power up much better than the GT28R. Go with the GT2871R if you're spending that much money on a small frame turbo.

[dets]

great info. Great maps.

Got me convinced.


Carnewbie, Have you driven your car yet?

[PathosRx]

I stopped by the shop today to shoot some more pics ...

The turbo hot side and the exhaust manifold have been ceramic coated ...

We also have some custom fittings for the oil and water lines ...

[PathosRx]

i am just going to show a bunch of pics now ... some cool angles that I wanted to share ...

[PathosRx]

...

[PathosRx]

Look at me ... I am Mr. Turbo Inlet ... :D

[PathosRx]

a shot of my new RE tranny mounts :stickoutt

[PathosRx]

if you look closely you can make out the new Delrin carrier bushings ... :devillook

[PathosRx]

...

[PathosRx]

cool shot imo

[PathosRx]

from the side ... ;)

[fritzintn]

edit - Didn't read the whole thread.

Wish you snapped some pics of that 'spacer' and manifold prior to install.

[Turbo ///M50]

Cant wait to see it finished with Dyno Numbers.. I have an AA stage one and it will be good to know how they compare... That turbo you have spools super fast your lowend torque is going to ROCK... I think this turbo is a good match to the 2.5.. with good low to mid range punch with excellent spool




from the side ... ;)

[GG///M3]

nice pics

[BRUNO]

I want to see this car on the road already.

[PathosRx]

Ok ... after a week of delays due to other cars the shop was working on ... I have some pictures of more progress on my car ...

The intercooler and piping are all completed and mounted. The IC piping had to be modified a little bit because the kit came with the wrong intercooler but the shop made it fit. Not too bad IMO. I am using the stock bumper for a while without fogs until later in the year when I will do M replica bumper. But for now this should do ...

The piggyback has been wired in and the car will be fired up either today or tomorrow hopefully.

[PathosRx]

Another angle ...

[icemann633]

do you have any close up fittings of the water coolant fitting on the turbo...Also, where did you get straight barbs to extend the cooling lines to the turbo...

And finally, what are you doing for intake piping??

-Keith

[PathosRx]

another angle ... hehe ... i know the car is really dirty ...

[PathosRx]

Under the hood ... from a cool angle IMO ...

[PathosRx]

from the driver's side ...

[PathosRx]

the other side ...

[PathosRx]

head on ...

[PathosRx]

the new downpipe ... custom ...

[PathosRx]

another angle ... this end bolts onto the AA track pipe ...

[BRUNO]

So when can i see this in person. I want to do my soon. :D

[sentrase00]

damn aimal... Cant wait to see the car.

[matt415]

Any updates on this turbo project? How much has this costed you so far? Got any dyno numbers?

[Goofynick6]

I worry about that oil drain, it is horizontal for a bit it looks like; when your take a hard left the turbo will probably smoke some as oil won't be draining. I had a similar problem on a similar setup before since the turbo was mounted so low.

Nick

[QuiickSilverM3]

wow i bookmarked this thread.. way to play off the haters the turbo looks great and im sure we all are awaiting the final outcome

[S0nik]

Another bump in hopes of some results .. I'm awfully curious about this - as I'm sure a lot of people have been

[highboostingm3]

It's like he disappeared. :(

[PathosRx]

Hey everyone ... the project is very close to completion.

SMT-6 has been wired up and the car has been started.

We just need to button up a few things and start tuning sometime early this week.

I will keep all of you posted with any further updates.

[byron]

cant wait :)

[S0nik]

Great! Its good to know you're still around! Best of luck and hope it turns out to be everything you hoped it would be and more :)

[dredder]

Nice project. You give hope to those that have none!!!!!!Keep the pics coming. And hopefully the dyno numbers

[souroull]

so this thing bolts right up eh?

[DBloc181]

:redspot :buttrock :D

[bigjetmech]

so what happened?

[highboostingm3]

so what happened?
Yeah man...hello? :help

[Leftoverchinese]

A GT28RS is barely a step up from your turbo. Same size compressor wheel and turbine wheel, but a larger housing on both and a slightly updated wheel design on the compressor. Instead of maxing out at about 300rwhp, it'll do ~315-320rwhp(more efficient at higher boost), but it'll have a few hundred RPM more lag due to the 0.86 A/R turbine housing - which is unnecessary for this size compressor.

Go with the GT2871R if you're going to upgrade. It's a good solid turbo, and the 0.86 A/R version on a 2.5L engine will spool up just fine. The compressor definitely has enough headroom for 400rwhp.

Very interesting information. What do you think about the GT2871r's with the .64 exhaust housing?

[PathosRx]

A few more pics with my camera phone as I don't have the digital camera any longer (I was borrowing it from a friend). I apologize about the quality. The lighting was horrible in the garage.

[PathosRx]

The intake will sit right behind where the fog lamp used to be.

[PathosRx]

The air filter will connect to a pipe that will bend around the IC piping and attach to the MAF sensor housing. The housing then connects thru a flex pipe to the turbo compressor inlet.

[PathosRx]

A shot from underneath showing how neatly the turbo tucks in below the xbrace mounted in it's stock position.

[PathosRx]

Another shot from underneath at a different angle.

[PathosRx]

A final shot of the 3" downpipe flanged to the AA track pipe for now.

[PathosRx]

We got delayed due to the complexity of SMT-6 and then a leak from the new oil filter housing (which turned out to be a leaky O-ring). The latter has been solved.

Nico5spd (a member of bf.c) was kind enough to give us his expertise on how to approach the SMT-6 tuning issue with wiring the BMW MAF and SMT-6 MAP at the same time in order to get a good tune.

We are planning on tuning a base 6 psi map tonight and tomorrow night after my new projector HIDs are completed.

Let's hope I have some better luck.

[highboostingm3]

Thank you for the pictures! It's nice to know that everything bolts up so well. Was that downpipe part of the kit? So basically...if you didn't go with the SMT-6 you could use Nick's special HFM and custom tuning for a kit around $4k eh?

Or! You could install a Vic Sias Tec 3 and the kit would be around $5500-$6000 when done huh?

[DefactoM6]

If they sold it with a T3 flanged manifold and some sort of T3 turbo...that would be a steal...

[highboostingm3]

If they sold it with a T3 flanged manifold and some sort of T3 turbo...that would be a steal...
Doesn't George make an adaptor for the AA manifold...the pics I have seen looks like it...so can an adapter for a T3 flange be added on there? :evil2

[sentrase00]

We got delayed due to the complexity of SMT-6 and then a leak from the new oil filter housing (which turned out to be a leaky O-ring). The latter has been solved.

Nico5spd (a member of bf.c) was kind enough to give us his expertise on how to approach the SMT-6 tuning issue with wiring the BMW MAF and SMT-6 MAP at the same time in order to get a good tune.

We are planning on tuning a base 6 psi map tonight and tomorrow night after my new projector HIDs are completed.

Let's hope I have some better luck.

you know when you get the car back your gonna have to drive it to my house :devillook

[Lohe]

I really want to see a dyno chart I was thinking of geting this kit for my 325.

[PaulGTR]

Any update yet???

[DBloc181]

Can you still use your fogs with the new piping?

[byron]

how much is this going to end up costing? this project is taking a long time to complete.

[325ven]

dont forget us!!! still waiting for the result!!

good luck!

[sentrase00]

I dont think he has gotten the car back yet. Probably some tuning issues.

[TURBOKONGEN]

Back to a turbo question here .
A lot of good info here .
Asking Def here :
What would the spoolup be with a GT2871R .64ar versus a GT28RS .86ar .
I put a GT28RS on my 1.8l CA18DET engine a while ago(before the GT2871R was available) . It is pretty laggy , but does give a bit more power than the GT28R I had on before .
I am running it at 1.5bar(22psi) boost now .
I have been thinking about changing to a GT2871R .64ar , but it is not really very much use if they have aprox. the same spoolup .
I will probably have to limit boost to 1.2 bar with the GT2871R , as not to destroy my standard engine bottom end .
A friend of mine with a fully built CA18DET made 390whp with a GT2871R .86ar a 1.6bar(23.5psi) .
The spoolup on that engine is a little slower than mine . Probably 300-500 rpm slower .

[ParadigmGuy]

Back to a turbo question here .
A lot of good info here .
Asking Def here :
What would the spoolup be with a GT2871R .64ar versus a GT28RS .86ar .
I put a GT28RS on my 1.8l CA18DET engine a while ago(before the GT2871R was available) . It is pretty laggy , but does give a bit more power than the GT28R I had on before .
I am running it at 1.5bar(22psi) boost now .
I have been thinking about changing to a GT2871R .64ar , but it is not really very much use if they have aprox. the same spoolup .
I will probably have to limit boost to 1.2 bar with the GT2871R , as not to destroy my standard engine bottom end .
A friend of mine with a fully built CA18DET made 390whp with a GT2871R .86ar a 1.6bar(23.5psi) .
The spoolup on that engine is a little slower than mine . Probably 300-500 rpm slower .
Post a new thread, don't hijack this one.

[Lohe]

Post a new thread, don't hijack this one.


.


And we need an update I really want to see a dyno with this kit... I would like to still do it to my ol 325I

[biggup21]

I would love to see some dyno #'s from this kit, but would love even more to see the same thing w/ the gt30r turbo :devillook That is the direction I am thinking of going. If a motor has well over 200k+ what would I need to do just to totally prep themotor for boost? I don't want to swap motors at all, I want to keep my m50 non vanos and just send 15psi+ to it all day. My car will become a joy rider when I do this kind of engine work and NOT a DD. I am finishing up a overhaul with interior, suspension, and wheels this weekend and maybe in a couple months if things are still going good I will look into this exact kit but with a gt30r.

BUMP for a potential FI life saver for us 325 pple :redspot

[alpinawhitem3]

I have this installed on my 95 M3... I am sorry for not posting a reply sooner as I have watched this thread evolve over the past 2 months, but I wanted my car complete before posting the thread. The best I could get out of it was 276 rwhp 284 ft/lbs @ 11psi. I did the install my self (an excruciatingly painful process) and I am satisfied with the kit. Everything seems to be high quality (aluminum piping, garrett turbo, cast manifold), my only complaint is that everything is so small. I need to replace a lot if I want a bigger setup (which is on the way). One thing that is really cool though is the spool on this turbo... man I have boost at 1500 - 1750 rpm! If someone could tell me how to post pics I will do so... sorry this is my first anything on bimmerforums. I went to "upload" but my file was too large. Open to suggestions questions...

[ayton]

I went to "upload" but my file was too large. Open to suggestions questions...
resize the pics first

[FriedKalamari]

I have this installed on my 95 M3... I am sorry for not posting a reply sooner as I have watched this thread evolve over the past 2 months, but I wanted my car complete before posting the thread. The best I could get out of it was 276 rwhp 284 ft/lbs @ 11psi. I did the install my self (an excruciatingly painful process) and I am satisfied with the kit. Everything seems to be high quality (aluminum piping, garrett turbo, cast manifold), my only complaint is that everything is so small. I need to replace a lot if I want a bigger setup (which is on the way). One thing that is really cool though is the spool on this turbo... man I have boost at 1500 - 1750 rpm! If someone could tell me how to post pics I will do so... sorry this is my first anything on bimmerforums. I went to "upload" but my file was too large. Open to suggestions questions...
for that kind of power id much rather have a naturally aspirated cam kit.....

[bigjetmech]

I've been waiting...............!

[highboostingm3]

I would love to see some dyno #'s from this kit, but would love even more to see the same thing w/ the gt30r turbo :devillook That is the direction I am thinking of going. If a motor has well over 200k+ what would I need to do just to totally prep themotor for boost? I don't want to swap motors at all, I want to keep my m50 non vanos and just send 15psi+ to it all day. My car will become a joy rider when I do this kind of engine work and NOT a DD. I am finishing up a overhaul with interior, suspension, and wheels this weekend and maybe in a couple months if things are still going good I will look into this exact kit but with a gt30r.

BUMP for a potential FI life saver for us 325 pple :redspot
GT30R will not fit on this exhaust manifold. I know since I have a GT30R. This kit comes with a T25 exhaust mani not a T3 which the GT30R needs.

I have this installed on my 95 M3... I am sorry for not posting a reply sooner as I have watched this thread evolve over the past 2 months, but I wanted my car complete before posting the thread. The best I could get out of it was 276 rwhp 284 ft/lbs @ 11psi. I did the install my self (an excruciatingly painful process) and I am satisfied with the kit. Everything seems to be high quality (aluminum piping, garrett turbo, cast manifold), my only complaint is that everything is so small. I need to replace a lot if I want a bigger setup (which is on the way). One thing that is really cool though is the spool on this turbo... man I have boost at 1500 - 1750 rpm! If someone could tell me how to post pics I will do so... sorry this is my first anything on bimmerforums. I went to "upload" but my file was too large. Open to suggestions questions...
Sorry to hear that you only got that amount of whp. What did you do for tuning? Which turbo did you use?

If you want to post pics you have to resize to atleast 800x600. You can also just e-mail the pics to camsells@hotmail.com and I will host them and post them for you.

[xiskingmofo]

Hey ive been absolutely intrigued with this thread, and ive been looking to get back into the scene (tuning scene that is). I'm glad to her newbie, that your from my neck of the woods in westchester. Usually socal is the spot which usually draws up the most tuning attention. It's cool to hear that there are shops in the neighborhood that will perform great work on our cars. But please tell us how/if this thing is running!
Also a bunch of us ppl from the NY should start meeting up again--Clinton where are u at? I would love to hear any tips/advice you could give me as i head towards engine tuning.

thanks
good luck

[Def]

Back to a turbo question here .
A lot of good info here .
Asking Def here :
What would the spoolup be with a GT2871R .64ar versus a GT28RS .86ar .
I put a GT28RS on my 1.8l CA18DET engine a while ago(before the GT2871R was available) . It is pretty laggy , but does give a bit more power than the GT28R I had on before .
I am running it at 1.5bar(22psi) boost now .
I have been thinking about changing to a GT2871R .64ar , but it is not really very much use if they have aprox. the same spoolup .
I will probably have to limit boost to 1.2 bar with the GT2871R , as not to destroy my standard engine bottom end .
A friend of mine with a fully built CA18DET made 390whp with a GT2871R .86ar a 1.6bar(23.5psi) .
The spoolup on that engine is a little slower than mine . Probably 300-500 rpm slower .


A .64 GT2871R spools about 400 RPM before a .86 GT28RS on an SR20, so I guess about the same on your engine. The smaller compressor wheel of the GT28RS just doesn't come anywhere near making enough of a difference on inertia to counteract the slow spooling charateristics of the .86 T25 turbine housing on these small displacement engines.

The GT28RS at 22 psi is probably a bit off the efficiency map at high RPMs on your engine, but I imagine it makes good torque once it does fully spool(probably around 4.3-4.5k RPM right?).

At 1.2 bar you'll make more power with the GT2871R than you make at 1.5 bar on the 28RS I'd imagine - but probably not enough to really make it worth the cost. It would give you slightly better response.

What about trying to source out a .64 A/R T25 exhaust housing and tossing that on your 28RS? Might not cost too much and it shouldn't choke the top end very noticeably, as shown by the results people get with the .64 GT2871R. BTW - highest I've seen on the GT2871R .64 is a bit over 370rwhp on an SR. The guy had all sorts of bolt-ons and some 272/272 HKS cams, so it had killer top end even with the small exhaust housing. I think power peaked at an honest 7100-7200 RPM, which is rare with the smaller housing. Still fully spooled around 3700-3800 RPM.

[Def]

I have this installed on my 95 M3... I am sorry for not posting a reply sooner as I have watched this thread evolve over the past 2 months, but I wanted my car complete before posting the thread. The best I could get out of it was 276 rwhp 284 ft/lbs @ 11psi. I did the install my self (an excruciatingly painful process) and I am satisfied with the kit. Everything seems to be high quality (aluminum piping, garrett turbo, cast manifold), my only complaint is that everything is so small. I need to replace a lot if I want a bigger setup (which is on the way). One thing that is really cool though is the spool on this turbo... man I have boost at 1500 - 1750 rpm! If someone could tell me how to post pics I will do so... sorry this is my first anything on bimmerforums. I went to "upload" but my file was too large. Open to suggestions questions...

That's about what I expected on "around 10 psi" for this turbo on such a large engine. It'll probably do 13 psi or so before it's completely tapped out.

You could actually make quite a bit of power on a T25 based turbo and keep your manifold. As you can tell, you have the smaller T25 housing that's commonly used on aftermarket Garrett turbos, so boost is pretty much there whenever you want it on your larger engine. You could step up to a turbo with a better flowing turbine wheel and a larger 0.86 A/R housing that would really free up the exhaust side of your engine. Add in a larger compressor wheel and you can make about 400rwhp without too much issue on some turbos that'll bolt right up. It's still a lot to ask of a T25 turbine inlet to flow that much massflow - but it's possible.

I'd say either a GT2871R .86 A/R or a GT3071R-WG .86 A/R would be a good choice. I'd probably go with the 3071R for your application though, since the higher flowing turbine wheel will open up the top end a bit more. Both of these turbos can do 400rwhp, with the 3071R being speculated to have about 425rwhp in it before it chokes up.

Welding on an external wastegate to your manifold will help beyond about 320-350rwhp since you'll be taking exhaust massflow out of the choked up T25 turbine housing. However, since T3 based manifolds are pretty common and almost reasonably priced for your car I'd say it wouldn't be worth the effort.


I think you guys had unreasonable expectations about this turbo. I mean, it's a "mild turbo upgrade" for the 2.0L crowd - it's not exactly going to shred the pavement no matter what you put it on. The thing I think you guys would be surprised at is the boost response. I imagine you can get boost whenever you want by just cracking open the throttle.

BTW - if you want to upgrade - I'll gladly buy the GT28R off your hands! Seriously! :D ;)

[dredder]

for that kind of power id much rather have a naturally aspirated cam kit.....
How much horsepower would you get out of a cam kit with software upgrade?

[PathosRx]

After a few weeks of various serious personal issues in my life of which some resolved for the better and some for the worse, I was finally able to return to the shop yesterday to take the car home.

The project is not completely done. However, the car runs well and idles decently. Part throttle still has kinks. AFRs are below 11 according to the UEGO across the rpm band. The car is tuned very conservatively for right now and we still have some ways to go with the tuning. This SMT-6 is starting to look like a really good tool once we got the hang of it (THANKS NICO!)

I am still learning how to program the various functions of the Turbo Smart e-boost and I have gotten a decent hold over the boost creep. Right now I have a toggle switch on the SMT-6 that can select between one of two maps - we have a nice rich tune for 6 psi and 10 psi with some "extra rich" spots that are a result of adapting for a heatsoaked motor when we were out tuning last week (very hot and humid at night).

I have attacked heat soak myself by removing all the underhood insulation (good for sound btw) and have noticed a significant improvement. Then I thermal wrapped the aluminum piping into the intake manifold from when it enters the engine bay all the way to the throttle body. This has also made a decent improvement. Finally, last night I noticed that cranking the heat as I am idling reduces oil temp by 15 deg from what it was originally and water is also reduced significantly. This last maneuver is really good for stoplights, very slow traffic, letting the motor idle before shut off, etc.

We hope to fine tune on the streets some more over the next few days in order to fix those "extra rich" spots, and I hope to be at a dyno next week where we will spend the time fine tuning a 6 psi and 10 psi map (we haven't touched timing as of yet).

Also, there are few other add-ons that I have not made mention of that I will reveal at a later date, e.g. in the hopes of more power.

[ayton]

cool beans! :) sounds like you have a sound plan at work....and hope all is well with the personal issues. :)

[highboostingm3]

That's about what I expected on "around 10 psi" for this turbo on such a large engine. It'll probably do 13 psi or so before it's completely tapped out.

You could actually make quite a bit of power on a T25 based turbo and keep your manifold. As you can tell, you have the smaller T25 housing that's commonly used on aftermarket Garrett turbos, so boost is pretty much there whenever you want it on your larger engine. You could step up to a turbo with a better flowing turbine wheel and a larger 0.86 A/R housing that would really free up the exhaust side of your engine. Add in a larger compressor wheel and you can make about 400rwhp without too much issue on some turbos that'll bolt right up. It's still a lot to ask of a T25 turbine inlet to flow that much massflow - but it's possible.

I'd say either a GT2871R .86 A/R or a GT3071R-WG .86 A/R would be a good choice. I'd probably go with the 3071R for your application though, since the higher flowing turbine wheel will open up the top end a bit more. Both of these turbos can do 400rwhp, with the 3071R being speculated to have about 425rwhp in it before it chokes up.

Welding on an external wastegate to your manifold will help beyond about 320-350rwhp since you'll be taking exhaust massflow out of the choked up T25 turbine housing. However, since T3 based manifolds are pretty common and almost reasonably priced for your car I'd say it wouldn't be worth the effort.


I think you guys had unreasonable expectations about this turbo. I mean, it's a "mild turbo upgrade" for the 2.0L crowd - it's not exactly going to shred the pavement no matter what you put it on. The thing I think you guys would be surprised at is the boost response. I imagine you can get boost whenever you want by just cracking open the throttle.

BTW - if you want to upgrade - I'll gladly buy the GT28R off your hands! Seriously! :D ;)
As usual Def, you never fail to come through with helpful knowledge! Thanks again! That is great news for this guy! He should go rebuild that turbo for 400rwhp, weld a external wastegate flange to that exhaust manifold and probably keep it open for great flow! Take off the swing-valve and internal wastegate setup, then plug that hole in the 5-bolt turbine housing and let er rip! :thanks:

[FriedKalamari]

How much horsepower would you get out of a cam kit with software upgrade?
well a cam kit is a whole kit with the cams, intake, software etc. I believe the s52 were dynoing at 260-270whp. Im a naturally aspirated junky though :stickoutt FI just isnt my thing, i think its awesome for what it is, but just not for BMW's.

[highboostingm3]

well a cam kit is a whole kit with the cams, intake, software etc. I believe the s52 were dynoing at 260-270whp. Im a naturally aspirated junky though :stickoutt FI just isnt my thing, i think its awesome for what it is, but just not for BMW's.
Well then go drive a Twin Scew! I highly doubt you would turn that sucker down. It will feel like NA but just a hellava lot more power! Like a V8 or V10!

[FriedKalamari]

Well then go drive a Twin Scew! I highly doubt you would turn that sucker down. It will feel like NA but just a hellava lot more power! Like a V8 or V10!

Feels like NA huh? are those things floating around already? havent seen anyone at the local meets with one YET :devillook

[Def]

well a cam kit is a whole kit with the cams, intake, software etc. I believe the s52 were dynoing at 260-270whp. Im a naturally aspirated junky though :stickoutt FI just isnt my thing, i think its awesome for what it is, but just not for BMW's.


Just throwing a camkit on an S52 with a few other mods like accessory pullies and an exhaust gets you about 240-250rwhp and about 230rwtq. This GT28R car would absolutely blow past one since it makes so much more torque and a good bit more HP.

I guess you'll have to wait for a dyno to see what I'm talking about, but you'll be astonished at how much extra torque this setup makes over an NA setup. You'll see it make a ton of torque, and then slowly roll off the torque as the small turbo struggles to keep up and that's about when the HP peaks.

For just a street car that wants a bit more power and excellent boost response - this actually isn't a bad "starter kit." For $1k you can pick up a 400whp capable turbo that should still spool mighty quick on your relatively large engines. It'll bolt right up to everything you have.


BTW - the compressor wheel in the GT3071R-WG and GT2871R are both from the smaller 71mm 56 trim GT35R, so you know the wheel has plenty of headroom. It won't do 550rwhp or anything like that, but it should be capable of about 450rwhp completely maxxed out. The only thing holding it back in this case is that the T25 turbine inlet is much smaller than a T3 inlet, so you choke the flow right there. Putting in an external gate will probably give you an extra 50rwhp capability on the same manifold and turbo on the upper end when you still have plenty of compressor flow but are choking the exhaust.


If it seems like I know a lot about these turbos, well, I kinda do since my stock manifold has a T25 flange and all these turbos have been tried out by SR20DET guys.

[alpinawhitem3]

As highboostingm3 said "Thanks Def"! As far as trying to open things up a little bit... I went to a full 3" exhaust, 3" downpipe (no cats), added a greddy profec s and had it tuned by a local shop with a lot of experience with forced induction BMWs. Those dyno #'s are with all these mods. I bet carnewbie will make a better gain than me though. Like Def said... my motor is too big for that turbo.

Def, I believe this guy four doors down from me is going to buy the kit minus my exhaust, TSI injection control unit, and the profec s on or aound July 20th. On August 12th or so I'll have the financing to go to the boostlogic manifold, run a t4, and have that same shop fabricate the wastegate plumbing/modify my exhaust (if possible). However if he does not... you seem to be quite the expert on turbos of that size. I'm sure you would know what one with less than 2K goes for. I would gladly sell it to you. Thanks for the input man!

I'll have to send the pics to highboostingm3... I don't believe I have an application that can resize the pics properly.

[Def]

Here's a few dyno comparisons, both are on 2.0L SR20DET's. First is the GT2871R .64 A/R turbine housing running like 21-22 psi(probably too much for the small housing). The GT2871R is in blue, the red is some big T3/T67 combo I think. The guy has a ton of breathing mods and headwork as well, yet you can still see the power "slack off" up high. This is due to the turbine housing choking the flow a bit. Notice how quickly it spools up even on this small of an engine though - that small exhaust housing works wonders at getting things up to speed. This is the turbo I'd go with if I was prepared to drop a grand on a new one.


The second(sorry that it's hard to see) is the same turbo with a a .86 A/R housing. Notice how the power keeps going up top, and how the guy ultimately makes about 40rwhp more, and at I think about 1-1.5 psi less boost. So you can see, opening up the exhaust side of these little T25's and putting big compressor wheels on 'em will really let them make some nice power.


The .86 GT3071R-WG will have a bit more headroom than the .86 GT2871R, so you can expect to more easily reach the ~400rwhp mark. Truthfully, this turbo is probably a better match for the engine, since a ~3L engine can really spool up these small turbos. The 3071R-WG also has a better speed match between the turbine and compressor wheels, so the spool hit really isn't as bad as you'd imagine from just stuffing in a bigger turbine wheel in the same turbo. It just works better together with the comp wheel. The WG part is important, otherwise you get a T3 flanged turbo, this one still has a T25 flange.


So there still is hope for you guys that get the boost bug with this turbo kit! These T25 flanged GT series turbos can put out some power when it comes down to it, so we're not completely left out!

[FriedKalamari]

Just throwing a camkit on an S52 with a few other mods like accessory pullies and an exhaust gets you about 240-250rwhp and about 230rwtq. This GT28R car would absolutely blow past one since it makes so much more torque and a good bit more HP.

I guess you'll have to wait for a dyno to see what I'm talking about, but you'll be astonished at how much extra torque this setup makes over an NA setup. You'll see it make a ton of torque, and then slowly roll off the torque as the small turbo struggles to keep up and that's about when the HP peaks.

For just a street car that wants a bit more power and excellent boost response - this actually isn't a bad "starter kit." For $1k you can pick up a 400whp capable turbo that should still spool mighty quick on your relatively large engines. It'll bolt right up to everything you have.


BTW - the compressor wheel in the GT3071R-WG and GT2871R are both from the smaller 71mm 56 trim GT35R, so you know the wheel has plenty of headroom. It won't do 550rwhp or anything like that, but it should be capable of about 450rwhp completely maxxed out. The only thing holding it back in this case is that the T25 turbine inlet is much smaller than a T3 inlet, so you choke the flow right there. Putting in an external gate will probably give you an extra 50rwhp capability on the same manifold and turbo on the upper end when you still have plenty of compressor flow but are choking the exhaust.


If it seems like I know a lot about these turbos, well, I kinda do since my stock manifold has a T25 flange and all these turbos have been tried out by SR20DET guys.

The question for me is not how much power and torque can squeeze
out of it (obviously with enough tuning and what not you can get great #'s) but more so how balanced is that power, and how well is it going to put the power to the ground when going through the twisties. Like i said though im very uneducated in FI, but theres nothing like your guys crazy FI monsters. I remember hearing JadedM3 fly by next to us WOT on a drive a couple weeks ago, sounded insane and the thing just WENT... :eek:

[biggup21]

If I ran went with the TSI setup and upgraded to a .86 GT3071R-WG, what other upgrades would need to be made? (FMIC, injectors, etc??) I have a m50 non vanos in my car now with 210k, running strong, but when the time comes I think I want to do a m52 obd1 swap with this FI setup. How does that sound to the more knowledgeable pple? Lemme know, any info is a great help and please keep this thread going forever because it is SUPER informative :redspot

[T-Rex]

If I ran went with the TSI setup and upgraded to a .86 GT3071R-WG, what other upgrades would need to be made? (FMIC, injectors, etc??) I have a m50 non vanos in my car now with 210k, running strong, but when the time comes I think I want to do a m52 obd1 swap with this FI setup. How does that sound to the more knowledgeable pple? Lemme know, any info is a great help and please keep this thread going forever because it is SUPER informative :redspot
Everything else would depend on what boost level / how much power you are shooting for. I'd go for a MLS head gasket, 30lb injectors, walbro 255lph, and probably a larger intercooler.

[highboostingm3]

If I ran went with the TSI setup and upgraded to a .86 GT3071R-WG, what other upgrades would need to be made? (FMIC
This is a fantastic question because I don't think anyone has claimed exactly what the FMIC can flow with this kit. However, if we are talking 400-450rwhp, then the core looks atleast large enough, but I have no idea how well it's engineered. If anyone has these figures then this would be ghreat, cause if it flows it, then that is seriously money and hassle saved.

, injectors, etc??)
You will always have to upgrade injectors to flow what is needed when you are talking about upping the whp in 50whp increments. Figure on the whp that you want, then an expert or somebody else on here can match the injector size for your engine that you need.

, I have a m50 non vanos in my car now with 210k, running strong, but when the time comes I think I want to do a m52 obd1 swap with this FI setup. How does that sound to the more knowledgeable pple? Lemme know, any info is a great help and please keep this thread going forever because it is SUPER informative :redspot
I am glad to help all I can, however Def and others definitely have more knowledge than I.
More displacement and a newer engine will always help a lot...but that all depends on your budget. You could save the extra money that the M52 swap would cost and use that to piece together a sick T3 custom turbo kit(instead of getting this kit) that you can get up to 500rwhp with the .140 head gasket and studs.

[InterSpool]

Cam lets go surfing bro.

[Lohe]

The question for me is not how much power and torque can squeeze
out of it (obviously with enough tuning and what not you can get great #'s) but more so how balanced is that power, and how well is it going to put the power to the ground when going through the twisties. Like i said though im very uneducated in FI, but theres nothing like your guys crazy FI monsters. I remember hearing JadedM3 fly by next to us WOT on a drive a couple weeks ago, sounded insane and the thing just WENT... :eek:


Umm the TS are very balanced Look at Bob Tunel and Neil car's..... They have a very nice TQ curve so power is even in all RPM range and it is a massive amount. Here is Bobs write up of his first event using the TS. http://www.bimmerhaus.com/competition/EuroTS/eurots.html

( sorry for the hijack )


I still want to see what a 2.5 dynos with this kit. The only peopel with this kit I have see post are M3 motors.

[biggup21]

highboostingm3

I know I oculd save with the m52 swap and just get a t3 turbo setup, but my engine will need to be built to hold this kind of power which will be another expense I have to take into consideration.

[Juicy Double]

this build up is taking a while... any updates for us?

[Def]

The question for me is not how much power and torque can squeeze
out of it (obviously with enough tuning and what not you can get great #'s) but more so how balanced is that power, and how well is it going to put the power to the ground when going through the twisties. Like i said though im very uneducated in FI, but theres nothing like your guys crazy FI monsters. I remember hearing JadedM3 fly by next to us WOT on a drive a couple weeks ago, sounded insane and the thing just WENT... :eek:

An M3 engine, or even a 325's M50, will spool this small turbo up so quick it'll pretty much feel like a bigger engine is under the hood above say 2k RPM. The more boost you run, the weaker the topend will seem in comparison because the turbo is sized a bit small for the engine, but that's what'll give it basically instant boost response. A bigger T3/T04e turbo won't really lag much on a ~2.5-3L engine, so something this much smaller will spool up like yesterday.

[Def]

If I ran went with the TSI setup and upgraded to a .86 GT3071R-WG, what other upgrades would need to be made? (FMIC, injectors, etc??) I have a m50 non vanos in my car now with 210k, running strong, but when the time comes I think I want to do a m52 obd1 swap with this FI setup. How does that sound to the more knowledgeable pple? Lemme know, any info is a great help and please keep this thread going forever because it is SUPER informative :redspot

For that turbo I think going with some 42 lb/hr injectors would give you plenty of headroom. You should be able to max the turbo out and you'd be "close" to the max safe level of the injectors if these engines have BSFC anything like SR20DETs(that I'm more familiar with). In any event, it'd be a good start and those injectors are commonly available for pretty cheap.

I think you'd need to get a better tune than a piggyback. I'm not too knowledgeable on the SMT-6, but I'd want a good solid tune. I'm sure NickG can help you out since he seems to be an excellent EFI tuner, and I don't say that lightly(I'm only a neophyte when it comes to knowing the "tricks of the trade", but I know enough to see when someone is real good).

From just quickly looking at the kit I'd say the charge pipes and intercooler seem good enough for higher power than the GT28R can put out. The intercooler is large enough, but the question is what do the internal fins look like. If someone can post up a pic I can tell you if it's a good design or not. You might need to make a larger downpipe for that kit and definitely go for a bigger catback than is currently available for the E36. Just do a custom 3" setup with a magnaflow muffler or something. That'll give you enough flow to get around 400rwhp.

It *should* be pretty easy to upgrade this kit, since it'd be almost like starting out with a factory FI car where you have to cleverly upgrade bits and pieces to get the best result. I wouldn't expect crazy power, but a GT3071R-WG should at least put out enough power to scare you once in a while. ;)

[biggup21]

I would need a new manifold correct? What do you think about a Tec3 for the EMS? Sorry for all of the questions but hopefully it is answering some questions for other people that are waiting for these results and would like to invest in this project. I wouldn't really want to make more then 400rwhp so it looks like the gt71r might be the best fit for me. I just want to make sure no punk ass hondas, integras, mustangs, etc. & M3s :stickoutt pull up next to me and think my stock body kit doesn't have a little surprise for them all :devillook :evil2 Thanx for helpin me fellaz....


BUMP BUMP BUMP

[highboostingm3]

I would need a new manifold correct? What do you think about a Tec3 for the EMS? Sorry for all of the questions but hopefully it is answering some questions for other people that are waiting for these results and would like to invest in this project. I wouldn't really want to make more then 400rwhp so it looks like the gt71r might be the best fit for me. I just want to make sure no punk ass hondas, integras, mustangs, etc. & M3s :stickoutt pull up next to me and think my stock body kit doesn't have a little surprise for them all :devillook :evil2 Thanx for helpin me fellaz....


BUMP BUMP BUMP
If that is the case, then you need to buy the Stage II Technique Tuning kit with ~450whp! Even more with race fuel & more boost! You mentioned the Tec 3, but now you are talking a lot more money (~$2600 not installed or tuned!). There is no use for that nowadays with Nick G. around. You just follow his directions, use his HFM, have him flash your DME with the new software and off to blowing doors you go! :buttrock

Like it was said, this is a great base kit for those not wanting to spend $6K+.

[alpinawhitem3]

I had to shave part of the turbo to get it to fit as it was. Also the kit came with the compressor exit pointing straight up into the exhaust manifold. I had to fabricate a 90 to make it fit. I don't think a 3037 would go... When I spoke to TSI about an upgrade turbo they said the biggest they could do is a gt2871r or a gt28rs disco potato.

[Def]

I had to shave part of the turbo to get it to fit as it was. Also the kit came with the compressor exit pointing straight up into the exhaust manifold. I had to fabricate a 90 to make it fit. I don't think a 3037 would go... When I spoke to TSI about an upgrade turbo they said the biggest they could do is a gt2871r or a gt28rs disco potato.

Did they design the IC pipes so that the compressor needed to be oriented that way? You can clock the turbo and adjust the orientation of the turbine and compressor housings relative to the CHRA. Just loosen the bolts on the back of the housing and spin it then retighten.

A 3037 is a T3 based turbo, so of course it wouldn't fit.

A GT3071R-WG(<--the WG is important!) is commonly sold with a T25 turbine housing. It has the same compressor wheel as the GT2871R(hence the 71 being the same), but has the larger turbine wheel from the GT30R(I think) in the housing. Here's a link to the 0.86 A/R one.

http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=GRT-TBO-026&Category_Code=GRT

Funny you mention the 3037 though, as they make a turbo with the same 76mm compressor wheel from the 3037 and a T25 style turbine housing(with the same 56.5mm turbine wheel from the GT30R in there to help it spool).

http://www.atpturbo.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=GRT-TBO-033&Category_Code=GRT


You would most definitely have to go with an external gate on that turbo to even hope of getting close to maxing out the compressor wheel though. I feel that the 3076 is a bit too ridiculous in a T25 style turbine arrangement. I'm sure it rips arse with an external gate taking away some flow from the T25 turbine though!



The GT2871R 0.86 A/R isn't a bad turbo either, but the smaller 76 trim 53.8mm NS111 turbine wheel is a bit on the small side for the 56 trim 71mm compressor wheel. What this means is that there is a speed "mismatch" between the wheels. Where the little turbine wheel is happier spinning its brains out at high speeds, and that's where it's most efficient at making shaft torque from a given exhaust flow. This higher efficiency means it poses less of an exhaust restriction when it's "happy." The 71mm compressor wheel is a big mamajama - so it'll tend to make the boost you want at lower RPM than a smaller compressor wheel. So in the end, the wastegate will end up controlling the compressor wheel speed, which means the turbine has to produce the shaft torque at a lower speed than it'd like, thus posing a bit more exhaust restriction because it'll have to "bite" into the exhaust stream to get enough torque.

The 3071 has a slightly larger 56.5mm turbine wheel that has an even larger trim than the NS111 wheel(it varies based on the A/R housing it's in). This means that it's more happy providing the shaft torque at the lower RPM that the 71mm comp. wheel runs. The downside to this is that the bigger the wheels you run, the more inertia you have to spin up whenever you want boost. This gives you lag. We're only talking about a few millimeters and a few grams here and there, but when you're talking about spinning something up to 120k+ RPM, all those little changes make a BIG difference. It has been shown that the GT3071R's do lag just a hair more than the GT2871R's, but since the larger turbine wheel provides more shaft torque at a lower RPM they're almost the same. Once in boost the 3071R is superior because of the higher flowing turbine wheel and better speed match between the compressor and turbine wheels.

Hopefully that makes some sense on why I'm recommending the turbos I am, and why they're actually a decent solution for these engines for a "street application." There is definitely something to be said for a small turbine wheel and big compressor wheel(within reason) for providing low inertia and enough flow up top to keep you happy.

T3 and T04 turbos are definitely superior when you want big power because the actual turbine inlet(and thus the area you deal with in the A/R terminology) is much larger. This means you can get slightly bettery geometry(lower A/Rs help spool the turbo better), but still have enough cross-sectional area to allow the exhaust gasses to get through without too much restriction. It's kind of like comparing a 0.86 A/R T25 turbine to a 0.63 A/R T3 turbine. They're probably similarly sized on the outside, but the area of the T3 is much larger, so that the radius can be smaller and still get the mass flow. Sorry that I'm not too clear on it, but I'd really need some diagrams to explain the differences in detail. Look at a few turbine maps for different turbos and compare them. You'll notice the T3's of smaller A/Rs flowing about the same with X sized wheel for a larger T2 turbine A/R with X sized wheel.

The reason why I went into all that is that I feel there is some confusion on this whole "this turbo fits that flange" situation and WHAT this T2/T3 thing means. It isn't just a different bolt pattern, but a completely different sized turbine inlet as well, so that affects the geometries you can run and how the turbo performs etc. Like I said in my compressor map post - turbines are much more complicated to analyze. :)

Just be aware that by going with a T2 flanged manifold you DO have some limitations and extra considerations to think about in the "moderately high streetable power range" that the T3 flanged guys probably won't have to deal with. Things like massflow through their turbine and small wheels getting choked up, as well as ditching the internal gate at some point that most T25 based turbos seem to pack(due to the OEM use of the T2 flange).

So I hope that helps you guys considering this turbo have at least a small amount of info and to kind of know where to look next to really determine if this kit is right for you, and what the curse/benefit of the T2 flange can be. :D

Just be glad that a bunch of (primarily Nissan) guys started jumping all over these hopped up T2 based turbos about a year or two ago. Otherwise you'd have almost no "bigger power" T2 based turbos out there. Now you can go all the way from a GT28R at ~300whp max to a GT3076R-WG and get supposedly about 450whp(no telling if the turbine can handle that much flow!).

[PathosRx]

I am going to ask Biggup21, Interspool (asking to go surfing???? :rolleyes ), Highboostingm3, and Def and others to stop hijacking my thread.

If you have a question about my setup, go ahead and post on my thread. If not, start your own thread.

And for all the education that Def has to give on t25 based turbos, Def please start your own thread. I can tell you know these turbos, so teach your seminar somewhere else please.

I was patient with this disrespectful behavior for a while from all of the previously mentioned parties, but NOW it has gotten out of hand.

Seriously guys, stop it.

[BuddyDuddy]

Hey, I don't think anyone is "trying" real hard to jack your thread. Why don't you not abandon it, family reasons ok; but if you leave a thread like this that a lot of people were interested in, and probably not due to your personality but the content of the thread, then don't hate. These people are giving many good people advise(even first hand advice with this kit, maybe you should talk to the guy that already used this kit) for their cars, what this forum is about. I don't see too many long posts about TT, or AA; everyone is staying pretty on topic. You really just made me feel that you are mad other people have done this or have advise, because they are eating your cake. I loved to hear about other people with the same kit while I was installing mine, sure it took the focus off of me but it brought a greater focus to the topic, the cars.

These people have kept hope alive for people that wanted to use this kit, (I apologize and do not mean to offend as I don't know the scope of your problems) you on the other hand have been a conveyor of the idea that the kit sucks and is impossible to tune. Nobody wants to have their car on the rack for months(like I did, and you are going through now) and that is what you are making it seem like it takes.

Thank You forsome good info Biggup21, Interspool, Highboostingm3, Def and carnewbie, I hope the rubo turns out great(and in my opinion it doesn't need to make 400whp to do that).

[BuddyDuddy]

Without those people's posts this thread would be lost on page 12.

[FriedKalamari]

uhh my apoligies for making a few posts regarding this product. i would appreciate what Highboostingm3, Def, and carnewbie have to offer and all the information they have given :rolleyes

[PathosRx]

Hey, I don't think anyone is "trying" real hard to jack your thread. Why don't you not abandon it, family reasons ok; but if you leave a thread like this that a lot of people were interested in, and probably not due to your personality but the content of the thread, then don't hate. You really just made me feel that you are mad other people have done this or have advise, because they are eating your cake.

This is completely uncalled for. You are insulting me while apologizing?

[PathosRx]

These people have kept hope alive for people that wanted to use this kit, (I apologize and do not mean to offend as I don't know the scope of your problems) you on the other hand have been a conveyor of the idea that the kit sucks and is impossible to tune.

Once again, uncalled for. Don't label me. Nothing comes easy. I don't post until I finish something.

[PathosRx]

Without those people's posts this thread would be lost on page 12.

My forum display says this thread is on page 8. Once again, uncalled for.

[Def]

I am going to ask Biggup21, Interspool (asking to go surfing???? :rolleyes ), Highboostingm3, and Def and others to stop hijacking my thread.

If you have a question about my setup, go ahead and post on my thread. If not, start your own thread.

And for all the education that Def has to give on t25 based turbos, Def please start your own thread. I can tell you know these turbos, so teach your seminar somewhere else please.

I was patient with this disrespectful behavior for a while from all of the previously mentioned parties, but NOW it has gotten out of hand.

Seriously guys, stop it.

Disrespectful behavior? Look at yourself buddy. The only person I see throwing a hissy fit in here is you.

I'm only letting people who have this kit(note that people is plural, you haven't even finished yours...) the upgrade options they have since there seems to be some misconception on how much power you can make on a T2 flanged setup. I happen to own a car with a T2 flanged turbo so I know a bit about them and am trying to share that information with people thinking of using this kit. This is one area of turbocharging that I know at least a few specifics, and other people who actually have installed this kit came in here thinking that there was no chance of upgrading this kit so I offered up advice.

Sorry that some people have ended your personal ass kissing thread, but this forum doesn't exist for solely YOUR benefit. People participate and read in order to learn and share information, gloating about your budget turbo setup is not the sole purpose of this forum. There must be some substance in order to even have a place for "you so cool dude!!!!111!!!" posts like where this thread originally started.

All of my info is on-topic, and I don't regret posting one bit of it. Maybe you're just butthurt that you can't offer up anything other people find useful? You sure do like to garner attention anyway possible... :rolleyes

If you really gave a crap about anything but getting "online props" then you'd probably read what I posted and looked into a few turbos I mentioned in case you ever wanted more power. But I guess doing some research and learning a bit isn't quite as "glamorous" as some people might like.

[ayton]

I am going to ask Biggup21, Interspool (asking to go surfing???? :rolleyes ), Highboostingm3, and Def and others to stop hijacking my thread.

If you have a question about my setup, go ahead and post on my thread. If not, start your own thread.

And for all the education that Def has to give on t25 based turbos, Def please start your own thread. I can tell you know these turbos, so teach your seminar somewhere else please.

I was patient with this disrespectful behavior for a while from all of the previously mentioned parties, but NOW it has gotten out of hand.

Seriously guys, stop it.
dude relax...MOST of the other posters on the thread had something of value to contribute (about the product) and they are simply waiting to see what kind of results you get. I seriously dont think anyone is trying to steal your thunder, myself included. :)

[PathosRx]

Disrespectful behavior? Look at yourself buddy. The only person I see throwing a hissy fit in here is you.

I'm only letting people who have this kit(note that people is plural, you haven't even finished yours...) the upgrade options they have since there seems to be some misconception on how much power you can make on a T2 flanged setup. I happen to own a car with a T2 flanged turbo so I know a bit about them and am trying to share that information with people thinking of using this kit. This is one area of turbocharging that I know at least a few specifics, and other people who actually have installed this kit came in here thinking that there was no chance of upgrading this kit so I offered up advice.

Sorry that some people have ended your personal ass kissing thread, but this forum doesn't exist for solely YOUR benefit. People participate and read in order to learn and share information, gloating about your budget turbo setup is not the sole purpose of this forum. There must be some substance in order to even have a place for "you so cool dude!!!!111!!!" posts like where this thread originally started.

All of my info is on-topic, and I don't regret posting one bit of it. Maybe you're just butthurt that you can't offer up anything other people find useful? You sure do like to garner attention anyway possible... :rolleyes

If you really gave a crap about anything but getting "online props" then you'd probably read what I posted and looked into a few turbos I mentioned in case you ever wanted more power. But I guess doing some research and learning a bit isn't quite as "glamorous" as some people might like.

This also is uncalled for. Wordy once again. BTW, I knew about all the turbos that you mentioned from atpturbo.com before you even made mention of them. You are not the only one who knows about these T2 based turbos (I find more education with internet searches and other reputable people than I do with your blabbering), and in terms of attention, you seem to be the one with the long "educational" threads which IMHO seem to be bait for people to hail you as the most intelligent person on this topic. Get off your soapbox bud.

Funny you talk about gloating, personal ass kissing, etc. That is exactly what you are doing. I am not doing this for myself only because if I was then I would post every single day. I hit hurdles and there were delays. I had very serious personal life problems that kept me from posting little details so I would rather wait until I had tangible evidence. A lot of the problem came from the shop doing the install. They were overwhelmed by the project and I had to do a lot of the research myself. Did you hear that Def? I researched things myself. And I didn't even need to ask the almighty Def ...

Go away. Start your own thread. I'll read it and post on it like you did on mine. Just because I don't spend hours typing like you do and showing off your "wealth of knowledge" doesn't mean I don't know a thing or two.

You are a piece of work ... attacking me when all I did was request you to stop hijacking it with your long sermons on t25 based turbos. Grow up. :rolleyes

[biggup21]

carnewbie-your such a toolbelt I swear. Your going to whine because people were informing interested people about your product and what kind of potential it has, grow the hell up. You must have been an only child cause your havin trouble sharing :mad

Good luck with your set up and I'll take the people that would like to learn about this and more to our own thread since we are somehow bothering you.

New thread, all info. and questiosn are welcomed: http://bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=4529690#post4529690

highboostingm3, def, and whoever else please go to this thread so we can continue or discussion for people that would like to know. Thanx fellaz :buttrock

[Def]

This also is uncalled for. Wordy once again. BTW, I knew about all the turbos that you mentioned from atpturbo.com before you even made mention of them. You are not the only one who knows about these T2 based turbos (I find more education with internet searches and other reputable people than I do with your blabbering), and in terms of attention, you seem to be the one with the long "educational" threads which IMHO seem to be bait for people to hail you as the most intelligent person on this topic. Get off your soapbox bud.

I couldn't care less what people on these forums think of me. If they think I'm smart - fine. If they think I post on here for attention - fine. I have my own motives(I happen to enjoy technical discussions - PERIOD). I'm happy to offer assistance if someone asks me, but I hardly see my threads being extremely "educational" - more of a stream of consciousness style of "talking to the computer" and thinking out loud. If you don't want to read it - skip it.

I'm not about to apologize for the length or content of my threads. I can type 140wpm, so what. Not everybody is as challenged by these concepts of "posting" and "forums" as you seem to be. This is a forum - go look up what that means before crying about people coming into "your thread."

I'm glad you think you know about these T2 turbos, but you don't seem to know as much as you think given your wild guesses as to how this turbo would perform on your engine at the start of the thread.



Funny you talk about gloating, personal ass kissing, etc. That is exactly what you are doing. I am not doing this for myself only because if I was then I would post every single day. I hit hurdles and there were delays. I had very serious personal life problems that kept me from posting little details so I would rather wait until I had tangible evidence. A lot of the problem came from the shop doing the install. They were overwhelmed by the project and I had to do a lot of the research myself. Did you hear that Def? I researched things myself. And I didn't even need to ask the almighty Def ...

Good for you. Yet maybe you shouldn't be so quick to talk down to someone who can turn his own wrenches in addition to knowing how to use Google... :rolleyes



Go away. Start your own thread. I'll read it and post on it like you did on mine. Just because I don't spend hours typing like you do and showing off your "wealth of knowledge" doesn't mean I don't know a thing or two.

That's just the thing - this is not "YOUR THREAD." This is a thread you started, but that's it. If I had posted off topic information you could get pissy about it, but everything I said was 100% on topic and I'd like to think at least somewhat informative to some people reading it(notice that plural subject again...)



You are a piece of work ... attacking me when all I did was request you to stop hijacking it with your long sermons on t25 based turbos. Grow up. :rolleyes

I merely pointed out that you're crying like a little kid about people posting in "your" thread. This forum is not a "this is my ball, you can't play with it" type of place, so stop acting like an immature child.

I am not hijacking anything, I am talking about possible turbo upgrades to THIS kit. How is that NOT related to the thread at hand?


You're 100% in the wrong for throwing a fit about people posting in this thread. Almost all of the comments were on-topic and informative. You're just being a little brat.

[325ven]

:flipa just post the dyno numbers!!!

[BuddyDuddy]

Once again, uncalled for. Don't label me. Nothing comes easy. I don't post until I finish something.
Well then why did this thread start so long ago?

[BuddyDuddy]

This is completely uncalled for. You are insulting me while apologizing?
There was no apology, only acknowledgement that there has been a reason for your absence. Insulting is not my intention although aggression can easily be seen in the words you choose.

[BuddyDuddy]

My forum display says this thread is on page 8. Once again, uncalled for.
I said this would be on page 12 of the FI section, not that this is page 12 of the post. W/O them it would be on page 2, not a bad or good thing only different.

[BuddyDuddy]

This thread should get locked burned and spread over the hill's of germany or something, what would suck is all the useful insight of a few informative people would be lost for other people with a 325. :help

[PathosRx]

Well then ... since I can't argue reasonably with certain members without being called names, I'll just end my posting on this thread. Go ahead with your thinking out loud for the enjoyment of all those who like that sort of thing.

Being called a brat and an only child by some of the personalities on this forum bespeaks of the relative hypocrisy of this forum's original purpose.

For those who have BMWs with interest in this kit, you can pm for the troubleshooting, SMT-6 base maps (6 psi and 10 psi on stock motor with additional possible maps), install details, and final dyno numbers.

For all those other peevish personalities, well you know what to do with yourselves. Continue on with your ramblings.

[BuddyDuddy]

Well then ... since I can't argue reasonably with certain members without being called names, I'll just end my posting on this thread. Go ahead with your thinking out loud for the enjoyment of all those who like that sort of thing.

Being called a brat and an only child by some of the personalities on this forum bespeaks of the relative hypocrisy of this forum's original purpose.

For those who have BMWs with interest in this kit, you can pm for the troubleshooting, SMT-6 base maps (6 psi and 10 psi on stock motor with additional possible maps), install details, and final dyno numbers.

For all those other peevish personalities, well you know what to do with yourselves. Continue on with your ramblings.

:lol :eyecrazy :confused :eyecrazy :lol

Your an a$$, you should post those in another thread since it can be searched for by other members. That would truly be doing the unhypocritical thing in a forum. Also a nice way to end this looking like the bigger man.

[BRUNO]

http://gallery.everyonedoesit.co.uk/data/513/4330balls.jpg

[Def]

Well then ... since I can't argue reasonably with certain members without being called names, I'll just end my posting on this thread. Go ahead with your thinking out loud for the enjoyment of all those who like that sort of thing.

Being called a brat and an only child by some of the personalities on this forum bespeaks of the relative hypocrisy of this forum's original purpose.

For those who have BMWs with interest in this kit, you can pm for the troubleshooting, SMT-6 base maps (6 psi and 10 psi on stock motor with additional possible maps), install details, and final dyno numbers.

For all those other peevish personalities, well you know what to do with yourselves. Continue on with your ramblings.


"This is MY ball, and you can't play with it! I'm going home!!!


Please - stop acting so immature and just shrug it off. I still don't know why you're so up in arms over your thread actually being somewhat popular in this forum, but whatever the reason, just put it behind you and talk cars. That is this forum's original purpose.

[Lohe]

I think his thread did get hijacked and took way off subject... the surfing post?!?! I mean can this not be done in a PM instead? I would still like to see what the car does turn out and the numbers it does put down.... I didnt really read all the fighting between every one nore do I car... just would like to see some info on the kit....

[Juicy Double]

carnewbie, nothing prior to your initial "uncalled for" post was uncalled for. We don't know why you're taking such offense to everything posted. If you leave a thread, don't contribute, and refuse to let others have a jolly good time enjoying their privelege of surfing (no pun intended) or posting on bfc, then this thread would have died. Inquiring minds want to know. If you can't inform us, then let others (considering Def's turbo knowledge and his GT28 info, that IS VERY RELATIVE TO YOU AND THIS POST, AND TO ALL THE READERS.) or stop whining about whatever it is you're whining about. If what has been said so far is uncalled for, then i don't wnat to know what happens when people call you names (tell the teacher?). We'll remind you that this isn't a national address and nobody needs to conform to your unnecessary, and iritating political corectness. No, this wasn't uncalled for.

[Lohe]

This thread should just be locked...... :nono

[MrBlonde]

This is one of the most self indulgent threads I've ever seen on BFc. Take a look at yourselves.

[alpinawhitem3]

carnewbie, our intention was never to hijack "your" thread. This thread is simply about the tsi turbo kit. Grow up. Thanks you everyone for your valuable input. Special thanks to DEF for the unprecedented level of knowledge and to highboostingm3 for resizing my pics and the compliments.

[PathosRx]

Ok .. so I am restarting my old thread with some new pictures of my setup. I have moved forward with the car to a new level and I have also fixed some of the weak links in the TSI extreme original kit. Let me know what you guys think.

[PathosRx]

Oil drain should no longer be a problem now ...

[PathosRx]

...

[PathosRx]

Still have an intercooler ... hehe ... ;)

[GG///M3]

Ok .. so I am restarting my old thread with some new pictures of my setup. I have moved forward with the car to a new level and I have also fixed some of the weak links in the TSI extreme original kit. Let me know what you guys think.

NIce blacked out intercooler. :D

[PathosRx]

:d

[PathosRx]

Now I have a cast aluminum 90 elbow mated to the throttle body instead of the rubber piece of crap that tore on me when I started boosting 10psi when I originally bought the kit. I have upgraded to silicone connectors and t bolt clamps. Those 3 screw clamps are only temporary until I get the 3.5" t bolt clamps as the 3.25" ones they sent me are too small.

[PathosRx]

:cool

[PathosRx]

:redspot

[BRUNO]

When am i going to see this car running. :mad

[PathosRx]

:alright

[PathosRx]

:stickoutt

[GG///M3]

When am i going to see this car running. :mad

hey Bruno alittle of topic but didnt u say you know some shop that does the auto- manual swap somewhere in nyc? yea i want a ride to. :alright

[PathosRx]

The guy in the driver's seat is my high grade BMW mechanic George Petit. He has done all the work that you now see in my updated posts.

[BRUNO]

hey Bruno alittle of topic but didnt u say you know some shop that does the auto- manual swap somewhere in nyc? yea i want a ride to. :alright
yes in astoria where i did my. :D

[PathosRx]

George cleaned up my footwell so I can try and heel-toe with the best of 'em now without any constrictions.

[GG///M3]

yes in astoria where i did my. :D
how much did it run u? i maybe doing this to a non-vanos car and going tsi turbo . thanks for the info. carnewbie get some vids soon :redspot

[PathosRx]

I know the lights arent leveled yet ... they will be when I get it back ...

[PathosRx]

When am i going to see this car running. :mad

It runs bro ... if all things go well ... and they haven't been up til now so I am hoping my luck will change ... the car will be at BMWCCANY at Nassau Colliseum Saturday Oct. 1st ... the oil pump is purring so nicely and the car does not smoke like it used to anymore ... I think it is still burning off the oil left over in the IC piping from the last blown turbo ... hopefully she will do well at the next autox.

[BRUNO]

hit me up on Aim: nyfinest1

and clean your inbox it's full/sent pm.

[fritzintn]

So what exactly is the 'mocal' thing? Oil pump of some sort?

[alpinawhitem3]

Thats pretty cool man, I have a question though... can you mount the pump at any angle? Upsidedown? How close are you to having it running? What are you using for tuning in place of your smt-6?

[PathosRx]

fritzintn: The Mocal is an electric oil pump and is serving as my turbo oil drain.

Dan: thanks for the compliment. Yes ... you can mount the oil pump in many ways but I don't think you want to mount it upside down ... it can be flat or upright ... I am still using the smt-6 as it is tuned for the gt28R already ... it is running ... we have a couple of things to tidy up and I should be driving it this weekend if all goes well.

[Juicy Double]

this is awesome, can't wait to see some numbers.

[Juicy Double]

by the way, love the interior with the corbeaus and the roll cage!!

[Geno325is]

Looks like the oil pump is mounted higher than the turbo, not sure if its strong enough? flowrate is 1-2gallons/min , is that oil coming out of your blowoff valve?

[PathosRx]

Looks like the oil pump is mounted higher than the turbo, not sure if its strong enough? flowrate is 1-2gallons/min , is that oil coming out of your blowoff valve?

The oil pump is meant to be able to be mounted above the turbo ... that is one of its purposes ... it can be mounted above the liquid level.

The oil in the blowoff valve is most likely a remnant of oil left in my intercooler from the last turbo that was blowing oil its entire short lifespan. I am judging the effectiveness of this new oil pump based on the amount of smoke in my exhaust which is greatly reduced ... there is still some remnants of old oil in there too i am sure.

So i'll have to wait about 100 miles or so of driving in order to burn out the leftover oil.

[highboostingm3]

carnewbie:

Looking like a little race car. The Corbeaus, roll cage, Momo wheel, blacked out FMIC, flat black front bumper. You should paint the entire car flat black...it would look so mean!

Can't wait to see your results! Looks like it will be a very fun car! Nice quick spool!!!! :buttrock

[PathosRx]

carnewbie:

Looking like a little race car. The Corbeaus, roll cage, Momo wheel, blacked out FMIC, flat black front bumper. You should paint the entire car flat black...it would look so mean!

Can't wait to see your results! Looks like it will be a very fun car! Nice quick spool!!!! :buttrock

Thanks man. I hope to dyno it soon. I want to break this new turbo in carefully and make sure it isn't smoking before I put it on the rollers and push 10psi. Hopefully, I will crack 280 whp with just a/f tuning through SMT-6. I am waiting to do a full tune when I go Stage II. :devillook

[alpinawhitem3]

What turbo are you going to?

Use the new intercooler! Trust me :)

The 2.5" pipes are NICE too! I'll post pics (by post I mean e-mail them to highboostingm3) as soon as my girlfriend brings over the digital camera.

Good luck man, this journey has been long for both of us. :)