Dual Valve Springs

[highboostingm3]

What is the best maker for dual valve springs and where can I buy them for my cylinder head?

s52b32 1997 M3

[Mikea]

I got mine from VACmotorsports.

[Stephen V]

Iskederian

[highboostingm3]

Thanks! :wave

[tjn182]

What are the benefits of stronger springs besides maybe higher revs?

[BMW///M3sdn]

Less odds of valve float which occurs on over rev (m0n3y $hift) which leads to bent valves, cracked pistons and all other types of non-sense. Thats what i can think of.

[scottycs]

1992 m50 non vanos springs.

[whakiewes]

There are several benefits, but just as many consequences. Double valve springs can withstand more RPM's, but that doesn't mean your lifters can. Double valve springs also give you the benefit of running higher lift, longer duration cams, due to the fact that they can close the valve much quicker, and more safely. The major downside is cost, followed closely by cam wear. The stiffer springs will wear your cam lobes significantly faster. OEM engine manufactures build parts to last around 100k miles. Thats the mark where an engine has seen its lifetime. Some people go by 5 years. That said, you could expect maybe 50k miles out of a higher performance engine.

Double valve springs are offered by several companies, most of which are selling one product. There are only two manufactures that make double valve springs for BMW's M50/2 line, Ferrea and SuperTech. Ferrea makes excellent components, and you can buy everything from one source. SuperTech makes springs in several different rates, starting at 80lbs open pressure, to 121lbs open pressure. Ferrea's are 85lbs open. The M50 Non-Vanos springs are 64lbs open, vs. 74lbs of the M3 conical springs. I don't have any of the seated pressures, as they are much harder to obtain. VAC's springs I highly doubt are made in house. They look very similar to SuperTech's, so I am guessing that is who makes them. Also, keep in mind you need double-valve spring retainers as well to hold the springs in. SuperTech makes Ti retainers for their springs, as well as Ferrea. Ferrea also makes an Aluminum Magnesium spring for engine longevity. They are some 4/each cheaper over Ti as well. I have access to all of the parts if you would like any of them.

Wes

[scottycs]

I am pretty sure the non vanos springs are quite a bit stiffer than the M3 conical springs. A friend of mine took some measurements and found something different, I will show him the thread.

[whakiewes]

I've tried both, and the M3 springs are softer initially, but tighten up a lot when pressed. My measurments definantly aren't perfect, but they are from a VERY legitimate source;).

[highboostingm3]

There are several benefits, but just as many consequences. Double valve springs can withstand more RPM's, but that doesn't mean your lifters can. Double valve springs also give you the benefit of running higher lift, longer duration cams, due to the fact that they can close the valve much quicker, and more safely. The major downside is cost, followed closely by cam wear. The stiffer springs will wear your cam lobes significantly faster. OEM engine manufactures build parts to last around 100k miles. Thats the mark where an engine has seen its lifetime. Some people go by 5 years. That said, you could expect maybe 50k miles out of a higher performance engine.

Double valve springs are offered by several companies, most of which are selling one product. There are only two manufactures that make double valve springs for BMW's M50/2 line, Ferrea and SuperTech. Ferrea makes excellent components, and you can buy everything from one source. SuperTech makes springs in several different rates, starting at 80lbs open pressure, to 121lbs open pressure. Ferrea's are 85lbs open. The M50 Non-Vanos springs are 64lbs open, vs. 74lbs of the M3 conical springs. I don't have any of the seated pressures, as they are much harder to obtain. VAC's springs I highly doubt are made in house. They look very similar to SuperTech's, so I am guessing that is who makes them. Also, keep in mind you need double-valve spring retainers as well to hold the springs in. SuperTech makes Ti retainers for their springs, as well as Ferrea. Ferrea also makes an Aluminum Magnesium spring for engine longevity. They are some 4/each cheaper over Ti as well. I have access to all of the parts if you would like any of them.

Wes
Great information!

I would like to know the price for one set of Ferrea's including magnesium retainers.

You can PM me if you like.

[GGray]

I have a set of Euro S50 B30 dual springs I am planning on using. I would bet they are much stronger than the S50 tu non vanos springs. In stock form the S50 B30 motor can rev to 8k+...The retainers from VAC will work fine along with the keepers. They have both Ti and hardened steel retainers. Since my car is a street car i am not using the Ti stuff. Ti does have less life according to an engine builder I know. He told me using Ti on a street motor is a waste.

I have all the springs sitting in my shop to test, conical, S50 B30, S50tu non vanos. I am going to use the hardend steel keepers and retainers, they were under 300 for the set. I am also going to do a mechanical lifter conversion too using the Schrick lifter converters.

Now all I need is some time! Busy time of year for my business!!

[bigmansM]

Great information!

I would like to know the price for one set of Ferrea's including magnesium retainers.

You can PM me if you like.

What i really want to know is, are you going to run an entire euro motor? or just the cylinder head?

you did say b32 right?

[highboostingm3]

What i really want to know is, are you going to run an entire euro motor? or just the cylinder head?

you did say b32 right?
It is US spec. Is s52b32 wrong? It's a motor from a 1997 US M3. :confused

[themadhatter]

s50b32 is the euro 3.2L obd-I motor - s52b32 is the US motor.

[highboostingm3]

s50b32 is the euro 3.2L obd-I motor - s52b32 is the US motor.
That's what I thought. Thanks. For a second there he had me going.

[Mikea]

There are several benefits, but just as many consequences. Double valve springs can withstand more RPM's, but that doesn't mean your lifters can. Double valve springs also give you the benefit of running higher lift, longer duration cams, due to the fact that they can close the valve much quicker, and more safely. The major downside is cost, followed closely by cam wear. The stiffer springs will wear your cam lobes significantly faster. OEM engine manufactures build parts to last around 100k miles. Thats the mark where an engine has seen its lifetime. Some people go by 5 years. That said, you could expect maybe 50k miles out of a higher performance engine.

Double valve springs are offered by several companies, most of which are selling one product. There are only two manufactures that make double valve springs for BMW's M50/2 line, Ferrea and SuperTech. Ferrea makes excellent components, and you can buy everything from one source. SuperTech makes springs in several different rates, starting at 80lbs open pressure, to 121lbs open pressure. Ferrea's are 85lbs open. The M50 Non-Vanos springs are 64lbs open, vs. 74lbs of the M3 conical springs. I don't have any of the seated pressures, as they are much harder to obtain. VAC's springs I highly doubt are made in house. They look very similar to SuperTech's, so I am guessing that is who makes them. Also, keep in mind you need double-valve spring retainers as well to hold the springs in. SuperTech makes Ti retainers for their springs, as well as Ferrea. Ferrea also makes an Aluminum Magnesium spring for engine longevity. They are some 4/each cheaper over Ti as well. I have access to all of the parts if you would like any of them.

Wes


Your right about Vac springs they are good for 1200rpms they are not made in house.

[themadhatter]

That's what I thought. Thanks. For a second there he had me going.
no problem. :)

to add to that:

S50USB30 is the north american (US spec) motor and the S50B30 is the euro 3.0 motor.

-Ron

[GG///M3]

I got mine from VACmotorsports.
HOw are they holding up? :)

[bigmansM]

Oops my bad. Sorry about that

[Mikea]

So far so good but really have not pushed them too hard Im still breaking in my motor.

[whakiewes]

The Euro 3.2L valve springs I have been contemplating using/trying for a while. The only problem I see is that the dealer wants 32/spring at my vendor rate. Thats quite a bit more than the competitors.

Also, just speaking on RPM's only, the US spec conical valve springs are easily good to 7500 rpms. We have a local engine turning 7500 safely, day in day out. He is on new lifters, and 7500 sustained wouldn't be smart. The lifters fail at about 7700 rpms, but this can easily be solved with VAC's solid lifter kit.

PM'ing you prices.

Wes

[GG///M3]

So far so good but really have not pushed them too hard Im still breaking in my motor.

What did u have done the whole motor or just the head? :)

[Mikea]

What did u have done the whole motor or just the head? :)


The whole motor was done by VAC stg3 cylhead and the bottom end for FI Tony said my motor should be good for 28psi we will have to see about that.

[GG///M3]

The whole motor was done by VAC stg3 cylhead and the bottom end for FI Tony said my motor should be good for 28psi we will have to see about that.

Yea the guys at Vac are great motor builders, my cousins s38 is there now. :)
Good luck with it.. :D

[Mikea]

Thanks....

[dimension318]

I decided to measure both sets of springs myself. I order a brand new 96-99 M3 conical valve spring and brand new 92 non vanos valve springs (inner and outter). I used the appropriate spring plates and pockets to simulate the spring as it would sit on the head. I am using 40mm as the height of the spring as this is the closest I could get from the head. I used 11mm of lift as the approximation to find the final spring length. Using a spring pressure gauge I obtained the following results:


M3: 40 psi / 110 psi
92: 60 psi / 180 psi

[bigmansM]

I decided to measure both sets of springs myself. I order a brand new 96-99 M3 conical valve spring and brand new 92 non vanos valve springs (inner and outter). I used the appropriate spring plates and pockets to simulate the spring as it would sit on the head. I am using 40mm as the height of the spring as this is the closest I could get from the head. I used 11mm of lift as the approximation to find the final spring length. Using a spring pressure gauge I obtained the following results:


M3: 40 psi / 110 psi
92: 60 psi / 180 psi

So what is the conclusion that can be made?

[BOOSTED4DRM3]

So the winner in valve spings is...............?

[scottycs]

92 m50 over m3.

[ParadigmGuy]

I'm going with Ferrea oversize valaves and dual valve springs.

[dimension318]

make your own conclusions. I'm just posting findings. if you want more info, call a manufacturer and ask them what the values are for their "performance valve spring kit."

[Bmwandreas]

I runed 8200rpm with M50 -92 without vanos.

Nice springs. But now we have better that handles 13mm lift.
The M50 springs only handles 10,8mm lift.

/ANdreas

[///M P0WER]

dimension318, how much are the 92 M50 non vanos springs.

[dimension318]

I've found them for ~$350 for the set of 24.

[Mjollnir]

M3: 40 psi / 110 psi
92: 60 psi / 180 psi

SuperTech makes springs in several different rates, starting at 80lbs open pressure, to 121lbs open pressure. Ferrea's are 85lbs open. The M50 Non-Vanos springs are 64lbs open, vs. 74lbs of the M3 conical springs.

Someone doesn't know how to measure the sprigng pressures. I don't know which one of you it is (I have a good idea though).

[scottycs]

JB (dimension) knows his stuff.

[dimension318]

The 40 psi seemed low to me, but I measured it more than once. Both measurements were done using the same method. The obvious descrepency is between the 60 / 64 psi of the non vanos is more than likely due to different spring lengths. As I stated the 40mm height is as accurate of a height as I could obtain. I believe the actual height might be around 38-39 mm. This would then obtain the 64 psi value. As for the M3 conical: unless the brand new spring I bought was defective, 40 psi is the correct value.

[BOOSTED4DRM3]

so the m50 springs are better than aftermaket?

[BOOSTED4DRM3]

*market*

[HBpredhunter]

solid lifters and tripple valve springs. thats the shiet.

[nickdrivesm3]

There are several benefits, but just as many consequences. Double valve springs can withstand more RPM's, but that doesn't mean your lifters can. Double valve springs also give you the benefit of running higher lift, longer duration cams, due to the fact that they can close the valve much quicker, and more safely. The major downside is cost, followed closely by cam wear. The stiffer springs will wear your cam lobes significantly faster. OEM engine manufactures build parts to last around 100k miles. Thats the mark where an engine has seen its lifetime. Some people go by 5 years. That said, you could expect maybe 50k miles out of a higher performance engine.

Double valve springs are offered by several companies, most of which are selling one product. There are only two manufactures that make double valve springs for BMW's M50/2 line, Ferrea and SuperTech. Ferrea makes excellent components, and you can buy everything from one source. SuperTech makes springs in several different rates, starting at 80lbs open pressure, to 121lbs open pressure. Ferrea's are 85lbs open. The M50 Non-Vanos springs are 64lbs open, vs. 74lbs of the M3 conical springs. I don't have any of the seated pressures, as they are much harder to obtain. VAC's springs I highly doubt are made in house. They look very similar to SuperTech's, so I am guessing that is who makes them. Also, keep in mind you need double-valve spring retainers as well to hold the springs in. SuperTech makes Ti retainers for their springs, as well as Ferrea. Ferrea also makes an Aluminum Magnesium spring for engine longevity. They are some 4/each cheaper over Ti as well. I have access to all of the parts if you would like any of them.

Wes

BMW does a way better job of making their engines last longer than 100k.

[GGray]

I have a set of euro S50B3.0 dual springs I am going to use with a set of hardened steel keepers and retailners..Should be no issues with how long they will last. And they fit fine I already test fit the stuff on my spare head.