Closest car to the m3?

[comptechgsr]

what have you driven/owned/operated that was the closest to the 'performance' of the m3 (the combination of power, handling, being practical,etc?)

also, please specify what M3 it was close to?

[Patrick]

89 325i

That car felt like I was racing every where I went.

I miss my e30.

[HellBilly]

pfffft, nothing comes close to the M3 in those catagories. hehe jkjkjkjk

my buddy owns a 350Z, wich ive driven a few times, and that seems to be just about on par with the M3. Little quicker in a straight line tho. Doesnt feel as good as the M3 tho. M3 has way more "road feedback" or whatver you kids call it now-a-days. :)

[hal9000]

For the e36 M, either G35/350Z or Evo. The G35 is probally closest to the e36 M3 platform in terms of performance and luxury.

[Kam]

If you are not racing I would say 328is (with few changes) or 330C.

[sethla]

I agree with the G35

[CarbonBlkE36]

driven alot of cars that check the M3, but its the only car i rock thats got the right price range for me right now

[ZimDoc]

Mini Cooper S. All it needs is about 60 more hp. Then it would be able to man handle a stock M3. Even stock to stock Mini out handles a M3 in the corners.

[comptechgsr]

Mini Cooper S. All it needs is about 60 more hp. Then it would be able to man handle a stock M3. Even stock to stock Mini out handles a M3 in the corners.

oh daym, the can of worms has been opened.

[mobil1]

s2000 felt similar in handling and power numbers (not alot of torque though). but i have to say the evo MR i drove the other day took the cake on not only beating my m3, but slaughtering it. It hurts to say it, but damn, I really love how that thing performs. Only downfall is that it looks like a toy.

[comptechgsr]

you're telling me mobil...crap, i'm SERIOUSLY contemplating on getting the STi/evo.....GREAT CARS, 4 doors, trunk space, good gas mileage, etc etc etc...


looks like a fuckin' rc car though =(

[shim]

pfffft, nothing comes close to the M3 in those catagories. hehe jkjkjkjk

my buddy owns a 350Z, wich ive driven a few times, and that seems to be just about on par with the M3. Little quicker in a straight line tho. Doesnt feel as good as the M3 tho. M3 has way more "road feedback" or whatver you kids call it now-a-days. :)
i'm with ya. i just drove a three-fitty this weekend and it is a fun car. i will say the suspension was quite stiff and the car felt really good to drive around (maybe a little harsh), but yes, the driver feedback is more prominent with the ///M.

evo's are great handling cars and will outhandle our cars with ease. STi's will understeer like crazy, but still they are sick. i would definitely consider an EVO MR or STi as my next car, b/c they definitely stick to the tarmac if you push them hard... although at the auto-x in indianapolis on sunday, i got to ride in a lotus elise and OMG, that thing is rediculous....

[iredlinemy///m3]

If you are not racing I would say 328is (with few changes) or 330C.

Yes, I drove a 99 328is.... very compareable.

[hemlock]

Mini Cooper S. All it needs is about 60 more hp. Then it would be able to man handle a stock M3. Even stock to stock Mini out handles a M3 in the corners.

No it doesn't. It pushes like hell. It'd need swaybars too at a minimum. And now where not talking about stock comparisons.

[themadhatter]

true, a 328is is comparible but it's like (on a scale) driving 7s and 8s where the M3 is driving 9s all day.

being they share the same chassis makes it easy to compare but what aside from an E36 chassis drives like a US Spec E36 M3?

the issue here is that there aren't very many rear drive platforms that are light on their feet. maybe a boxter but the one I used to have sure felt nimble but lacked serious power to be a contender.

-Ron

[loudes 13]

e46 zhp

[dorikin_86]

Mini Cooper S. All it needs is about 60 more hp. Then it would be able to man handle a stock M3. Even stock to stock Mini out handles a M3 in the corners.

yeah...cuz m3's are heavy understeering pigs =)

[mikeo]

My wife's Mini Cooper S is putting out about 200hp at the crank and with the Alta rear sway, let me tell you, it is one ANGRY 96c.i. motor and handles with the M3 except in very low speed corners. The fun factor is definitly on par with my M3. Luxury and build quality is another story, of course. What the MCS needs most is a limited slip, which is now an option.

Being at 7000ft. altitude makes it VERY difficult for my NA M3 to pull away from the S/C Mini, which doesn't suffer as much power loss at altitude. That is until over 90mph, hehe.

[tEckniks]

g35/350z feel nothing like e36 m3s.. i driving 3 g35s and 3 350z includin a track version

they all feel heavy in corners... but they are quick

i driven alot of cars.. they are feel different in their own way.. cant really decide

[jmott]

Rx8!

[Volf]

Rx8!

F**K that car!

Psh, RX-8
:lol

[shim]

rx8's are such weaksauce its not funny..... the FD3S rx7 was the greatest rotary street car

[E36bmer]

but i have to say the evo MR i drove the other day took the cake on not only beating my m3, but slaughtering it. It hurts to say it, but damn, I really love how that thing performs. Only downfall is that it looks like a toy.

I completely agree with you, I testdrove a lancer evo MR just messing around and told them i was trading in my M3, and when I was done with the drive, I could not wipe the smile off my face, and I was jumping around telling them to take my car right now, I wanted to drive off the lot with that car! It was so fast in a straight line, then at 80mph I took a turn and it just stuck to the road in any other car I would have slid right off the road and the brakes! oh that thing brakes like nothing i've ever driven. Then, from a dig, I reved the car to 5500 and dropped the clutch, I burned all of 1st and 1/2 of 2nd with all 4 tires. It was insane, when i got back to the dealership all i could smell was clutch, and tires, but that was a fun car, I love my '99 M3 to death, but man that car makes my car feel like a friggin mini van.

[comptechgsr]

E36Bmer,

i couldn't agree with you more. i have not tested the MR, but only the regular lancer evo and an sti. The performance is INSANE!!! and it gets good gas mileage for the performance, can seat 4 pretty well, and it can be modded insanely if i choose!!!

i just wish it looked a bit more subtle, maybe like the VW R32 but without its weak performance.

[jmott]

what does that make the M3 then since it is getting royally tounced by the RX8 at national tour autox events?

even at lowish rwhp numbers, at 3000lbs the HP to weight ratio is right there with an e36 m3

and a better front suspension and polar moment.



rx8's are such weaksauce its not funny..... the FD3S rx7 was the greatest rotary street car

[Serious]

rx8 hp/lb ratio may be close to m3 but those things are dog slow stock. i pulled on one like he was standing still even missing 4th gear for a sec.

ive heard they are very light on their feet though, although i stayed right on ones ass through an off ramp:dunno looked like it had alot of body roll for such a claimed great handler.

sounds sick at 9,000 rpm though!!!!

[dorikin_86]

rx8 hp/lb ratio may be close to m3 but those things are dog slow stock. i pulled on one like he was standing still even missing 4th gear for a sec.

ive heard they are very light on their feet though, although i stayed right on ones ass through an off ramp:dunno looked like it had alot of body roll for such a claimed great handler.

sounds sick at 9,000 rpm though!!!!

rx8's cornering balance is among the best I think...

I was behind one at the local racetrack and it showed pretty good posture for a bone stock car.

[H3xRO]

I completely agree with you, I testdrove a lancer evo MR just messing around and told them i was trading in my M3, and when I was done with the drive, I could not wipe the smile off my face, and I was jumping around telling them to take my car right now, I wanted to drive off the lot with that car! It was so fast in a straight line, then at 80mph I took a turn and it just stuck to the road in any other car I would have slid right off the road and the brakes! oh that thing brakes like nothing i've ever driven. Then, from a dig, I reved the car to 5500 and dropped the clutch, I burned all of 1st and 1/2 of 2nd with all 4 tires. It was insane, when i got back to the dealership all i could smell was clutch, and tires, but that was a fun car, I love my '99 M3 to death, but man that car makes my car feel like a friggin mini van.


you are all blasphemous! You shall be sacrificed to the Bavarian gods of war at the next Oktoberfest!!

[coloboardin]

haha kinda funny how it only took 10 years for Nissan/Infinity/Mitsu/Subaru etc. to be able to compare to a 10 year old M now! Gotta love BMW! :buttrock

[Coupe Dejour]

If you throw out being practicle, I would say an M Coupe.
But to me, it IS practical.

[auto_pilot]

I agree with the G35

Same here...

G35 had a tad softer suspension...Engine revved a little freer w/the G35...And braking was pretty close...

Not as good looking...but of course I'm comparing to the E36 M3...not E46 M3.

[shim]

what does that make the M3 then since it is getting royally tounced by the RX8 at national tour autox events?

even at lowish rwhp numbers, at 3000lbs the HP to weight ratio is right there with an e36 m3

and a better front suspension and polar moment.
really...... but then at nationals you have m3's, c4 & c5 vettes, & miatas dominating the championship....

[Volf]

Just get an M

[GoaT Is Nice]

all my s13 chassis (89-93) Nissan 240sx's with only a set of coilovers and a 2way diff out handled bmw's all day and the feedback and feel of the car is like no other car i've ever driven. I would still have one if they weren't so unreliable.

[TT Quattro]

m freind has a 05 STI but I would much rathher have a M3, for the price of a STI/EVO you can get a decent used E46 M3, that would be my choice.

[m thrizl]

i would definatley recomend te VW R32.......its no evo or sti in straightline performance and the steering rack is not nearly as quick.........but everyother aspect is an improvement over an e36 m3....yes luxury, yes interior styling(best seats/steering wheel combo ive ever seen), yes grip......bad ass exhaust tone, quick ratio 6 speed with a big 3.2 vr6 provides awesome low end torque........but ofcoarse its a hatchback, and its not so sexy. very comfortable and tossible street car. FYI simple mods and a good driver will net you 13.5 quater mile i would buy a used one with 20-25k miles for around $22-24k. great car.


sorry if i sound a little biased....i used to sell these cars new......i also use to drive the dog shit out of them on a daily basis......i was very impressed even in comparison to my 95 m with tons of mods.

my next car will probably be a 996.......i prefer the 993, but they are becoming more and more expensive, while the 996 continues to drop in value. 911's another close comparison??

[jmott]

vettes and miatas don't compete in bstock

last year at nationals in Bstock the m3s didnt even try because the s2000s were dominating so bad.

now the s2000 has moved to astock and the 350z and rx8 seem to be having more success than the m3 in Bstock.





really...... but then at nationals you have m3's, c4 & c5 vettes, & miatas dominating the championship....

[mobil1]

you are all blasphemous! You shall be sacrificed to the Bavarian gods of war at the next Oktoberfest!!


Hahaha damn man im sorry! At least I said a downfall to the evo MR...its really got no class at all. Just a straight up rc car (toy if you will). I love how refined yet, unrefined bmw is. Its the ultimate oxymoron. But anyways, they are both entirely different beasts. Im just a car enthusiast who gives credit where credit is due.

[Joelude]

You know, I have never driven a G35 or 350Z. I have never driven the Evo or the STi. But as far as styling goes? The G35 is sweet. I think it is a beautiful car inside and out. It has the power, and I am sure it has the handling. Yards ahead of the 350Z in my opinion. But as for overall performance? How can you top an Evo? 278 hp, turbo charged, all wheel drive, brembo brakes and its a four door? The only thing the STi did that was better than the Evo was 0-60mph and 1/4 mile time. Thats it. There is nothing driving today, IMO, that can beat the performance of an Evo for the price. I am talking stock, against stock and pricerange comparison. Its not fair to put an E46 M3 against the Evo... but I bet if the Evo didnt win, it would sure give it one hell of a run! I would own one in a heartbeat. Sweet car, and I actually love the way it looks. Its about time it made its way to the U.S. and hope it sticks around. Oh, I also really love the FMIC too! :redspot

[skratch]

Yea are m3's are getting old now.It is funny how it took a good 10 years for everyone to catch up.

But lets not for get about the REAL m3's across the pond with there 6 speeds and 321 hp.

please no comments on the "real" m3 part.we got a beefed up 328i.They got a hand built m power engine masterpeice.

[shim]

Yea are m3's are getting old now.It is funny how it took a good 10 years for everyone to catch up.

But lets not for get about the REAL m3's across the pond with there 6 speeds and 321 hp.

please no comments on the "real" m3 part.we got a beefed up 328i.They got a hand built m power engine masterpeice.
which can be solved with forced induction & the euro 6 spd tranny ;)

[canyonm3]

i agree that the g35 feels like a dog in handling compared to the M3. My dad has one so i drive it fairly often, and the power is similar on the butt dyno but, handling wise, it feels like a boat in comparison... not great road feedback and it is just big feeling.

the rx8 on the other hand is quite comparable in handling and, according to numbers and track results, similarly quick... but it doesn't have the fun torqueiness that the M3 has.

[themadhatter]

which can be solved with forced induction & the euro 6 spd tranny ;)
FI on an S52B32 > any euro motor.

[shim]

FI on an S52B32 > any euro motor.
werd..... but for me, i like the s50(us)b30 more... :cool

[dorikin_86]

haha kinda funny how it only took 10 years for Nissan/Infinity/Mitsu/Subaru etc. to be able to compare to a 10 year old M now! Gotta love BMW! :buttrock

you just never drove the cars that ate bmw's for breakfast 10 years ago =)

[skratch]

you just never drove the cars that ate bmw's for breakfast 10 years ago =)

um im sorry but car and driver gave the m3 best handling car for any amount of money like 5 years in a row.

wtf did honda have 10 years ago to compete with a 321hp euro spec m3?

NOTHING

[shim]

um im sorry but car and driver gave the m3 best handling car for any amount of money like 5 years in a row.

wtf did honda have 10 years ago to compete with a 321hp euro spec m3?

NOTHING
you ever heard of an NSX?? (even if its acura, still same company)

[skratch]

you ever heard of an NSX?? (even if its acura, still same company)

Back in 96 an m3 was faster and handled better and was also 30k cheaper

The m3 also can fit 4 people.

you just proved my point only exotics could compete with an m3 ten years ago.

car and driver said it out handled even most exotics for triple its price

[borealiss]

r33 skyline gtr. it was weird getting use to shifting with the left side but that car is sick and can be boosted so much on stock internals. i think the stock brakes are a bit better and there isn't that much turbo lag at all.

[comptechgsr]

the rx7 gave it a run for its money.
same with the supra in the late 90s

[mobil1]

Back in 96 an m3 was faster and handled better and was also 30k cheaper

The m3 also can fit 4 people.

you just proved my point only exotics could compete with an m3 ten years ago.

car and driver said it out handled even most exotics for triple its price


I bet if car and driver said a geo metro was cool, you'd buy it. And if you recall that article, it said in terms of sheer handeling it felt the best (barely). It didnt take into account ANYTHING else. You make it sound like it slaughtered the competition...and they only tested like 10 cars.


Cars I think could easily compete with e36 m3: R33 and R34 Skyline (would MURDER an m3, and at the SAME price and the R33 is OLDER), TT supra, RX-7 (when it runs), 300zx tt, silvia, i guess an NSX (but unfair for its price point), and all those cars are older than our E36 M3's. So its pretty lame to say "took all the other companies 10 years to do what bmw did". Im really not trying to flame you, im just fed up with this statement. I hope you dont say that at track meets.

Oh yea, lets not forget that Honda had Vtec before bmw stole it and called it vanos.

[themadhatter]

Back in 96 an m3 was faster and handled better and was also 30k cheaper

The m3 also can fit 4 people.

you just proved my point only exotics could compete with an m3 ten years ago.

car and driver said it out handled even most exotics for triple its price
toyota supra turbo. faster but didn't handle better according to a magazine.

[shim]

I bet if car and driver said a geo metro was cool, you'd buy it. And if you recall that article, it said in terms of sheer handeling it felt the best (barely). It didnt take into account ANYTHING else. You make it sound like it slaughtered the competition...and they only tested like 10 cars.


Cars I think could easily compete with e36 m3: R33 and R34 Skyline (would MURDER an m3, and at the SAME price and the R33 is OLDER), TT supra, RX-7 (when it runs), 300zx tt, silvia, i guess an NSX (but unfair for its price point), and all those cars are older than our E36 M3's. So its pretty lame to say "took all the other companies 10 years to do what bmw did". Im really not trying to flame you, im just fed up with this statement. I hope you dont say that at track meets.
:buttrock

you have to understand; while we have awesome cars, they are not supercars

[mobil1]

toyota supra turbo. faster but didn't handle better according to a magazine.

Its hard to understand what exactly "they" (despite being a car mag, was still the opinions of a few individuals) considered as "better". They also said, if I remember correctly, that the supra handled awesome when pushed hard. Just because a car gives off some good understeer, doesnt mean it sucks at handling. In my opinion, I think that if 90% of those cars are controlled properly, they would easily out maneuver our m3's. And its my belief that maybe what they actually meant by "better" was in fact just easier. The m3 was just easier to step into and drive, rather than have to learn (if you know what I mean). I know I sound like a "hater" at the moment, but in reality, Im just a "lover". A car lover...I respect cars in general and give credit where credit is due.



I love "quotes" and "laser beams".

[borealiss]

r34 would definitely rock an m3 but i think that is an entirely different class of car. i don't think the r33 would murder the m3 as a turbo m3 would be very competetive with the skyline. in autox low end torque matters more for exit speed which i believe the m3 has more of and the r33 is still a smaller displacement engine that has some lag. the r33 is slightly heavier as well.

[Def]

No way a Silvia in anywhere near stock form would be a match for an E36 M3. Maybe an S15 might be kinda close on a track, but I still think the M3 would be faster stock for stock(the suspension is just much better).

I have basically a 180SX/Silvia at this point, and while it is faster than lots of M3 on the track, some are still quite a bit faster than me. I run low boost at the track though, and am still on street tires.

I agree that the Skylines would destroy an M3 - they are built with the purpose of going fast much moreso than M3's that are more a "really tuned" 3 series.

[mobil1]

r34 would definitely rock an m3 but i think that is an entirely different class of car. i don't think the r33 would murder the m3 as a turbo m3 would be very competetive with the skyline. in autox low end torque matters more for exit speed which i believe the m3 has more of and the r33 is still a smaller displacement engine that has some lag. the r33 is slightly heavier as well.


Of course its a different class of car, its japanese. But to say that it took 10 years to "beat" our cars is a bit ignorant.

I still think an R33 would beat an M3. Its essentially the same motor as the R34, with mostly cosmetic and interior changes (GPS, engine managment display), and both have the ATTESSA system.

If you were to turbo an m3, thats around what? 6-9 grand depending on the kit? Drop the same amount into the skyline, and see what happens. The skylines were severly corked due to japans power restrictions.

The R33 is heavier probably because of its AWD (the R33 skyline actually came in non-turbo, turbo, 2wd, and 4wd for the general public. Im talking about the turbo 4wd GT-R). It also utilizes nissans ATTESSA system, which controls the car's all wheel drive capabilities. Its essentially an awd on demand system, and it diverts torque from the rear wheels to the front wheels as required, increasing traction with inputs from sensors in the car. If I remember correctly, it was also banned from its racing class because it slaughtered the competition.

I apologize if I come off as flaming, that is not my intention. This is a mere attempt to open the eyes of narrow minded individuals to other great things out there (and this time I am not pointing any fingers, this was a general post). Im just trying to get away from the whole german nazi tuner lol.

[dorikin_86]

um im sorry but car and driver gave the m3 best handling car for any amount of money like 5 years in a row.

wtf did honda have 10 years ago to compete with a 321hp euro spec m3?

NOTHING

first off, did you ever read 'other' magazines? maybe some australian or british mags? have they ever praised the m3 to be the 'best handler' ? I've read them and I have never seen anotehr magazine call the m3 the best handler...also..i dun believe C&D gave m3 that title for 5 years in a row...i only read that article in 97 and that was it.

Also FYI: 10 years ago your euro spec m3 had 286PS and did not turn in times faster than the 3.0L nsx on tsukuba circuit or fuji speeway or suzuka ..however the nsx did cost a little more 'overseas'.

I think you mis-intepret what car and driver said too...the m3 got the nod because it was easier to drive 'fast' for Joe Schmos but ultimately other cars turned in better lap times. While laptimes don't always tell the whole story...it tells a better story than 'car and driver said this' and 'road and track said that'...how do YOU know for sure that your car is a great handler? Anybody who has ever been to a racetrack knows that our car's weaknesses and it's pointless to explain to anybody who hasn't explored the potential of their OWN car...let alone other cars. (freeway offramps don't count)

Americans never get the best cars anyway...just look at the lancer...not having AYC is already bad enough and it is already murdering any bmw out there.

Our cars are aging well though...we can still keep up with newer cars of today which makes me a proud but bmw has to do something with the newer m3's....they need to go on a serious diet

[comptechgsr]

toyota supra turbo. faster but didn't handle better according to a magazine.

i know that magazines such as C&D and R&T do not really give "good data" when analyzing cars' handling etc,
but i thought i might just throw this in to let some more worms come out:
http://home.comcast.net/~pineapplemonkey/ppage1.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~pineapplemonkey/ppage10.jpg

and

http://home.comcast.net/~pineapplemonkey/page1.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~pineapplemonkey/page5.jpg
http://home.comcast.net/~pineapplemonkey/page6.jpg

[mobil1]

first off, did you ever read 'other' magazines? maybe some australian or british mags? have they ever praised the m3 to be the 'best handler' ? I've read them and I have never seen anotehr magazine call the m3 the best handler...also..i dun believe C&D gave m3 that title for 5 years in a row...i only read that article in 97 and that was it.

Also FYI: 10 years ago your euro spec m3 had 286PS and did not turn in times faster than the 3.0L nsx on tsukuba circuit or fuji speeway or suzuka ..however the nsx did cost a little more 'overseas'.

I think you mis-intepret what car and driver said too...the m3 got the nod because it was easier to drive 'fast' for Joe Schmos but ultimately other cars turned in better lap times. While laptimes don't always tell the whole story...it tells a better story than 'car and driver said this' and 'road and track said that'...how do YOU know for sure that your car is a great handler? Anybody who has ever been to a racetrack knows that our car's weaknesses and it's pointless to explain to anybody who hasn't explored the potential of their OWN car...let alone other cars. (freeway offramps don't count)

Americans never get the best cars anyway...just look at the lancer...not having AYC is already bad enough and it is already murdering any bmw out there.

Our cars are aging well though...we can still keep up with newer cars of today which makes me a proud but bmw has to do something with the newer m3's....they need to go on a serious diet


I too only saw the article written in 97. The 5 years in a row thing sounded a bit...exaggerated. I also agree ENTIRELY with how you interperated the article as well. I think what they meant by better, was easier.

Yes, I hate it when the latest and greatest are released in other countries before America (everyone hates us :( )...and if they do decide to bring it here, its molested like MJ got ahold of it.

I have always been proud of my BMW. Like I've said numerous times...I will never sell my M3. Only a severe accident shall take it from me.

[chewietobbacca]

Many thanks to comptechgsr for the pics... the idea that Supra's are bad handling cars is a big problem

In that same article that C&D gave M3 the best handling car the Supra was 4th and NSX was close - and thats ease of handling

Just cause the Supra is used for monster dyno numbers and usually drag doesn't mean it cannot handle - slap on smaller turbos and it will do great

Furthermore, the idea that Japanese cars took 10 years to catch up is ridiculous

MANY cars never made it to the U.S. that were far better than what we had here during that time

Ever heard of the R32? R33? R34? Those cars killed competition - the R32 was banned from competition because it destroyed everything and they actually created their own league just so it could be used.

True they're very overrated now but they have remained some of the best cars around since their introduction

The NSX debuted at a price far closer to the M3 than it is now (they really jacked up the price) but it all around MORE than comapred with the M3 - handling, speed, everything

The m3 is an absolutely great car but ridiculous statements like the Japanese took 10 years to catch up is a big mistake - just because many cars weren't here or popular doesnt mean they weren't better.

[JeffCupino]

Whats kinda funny is that i have driven my friend's RX-8 and its actually very balanced. Its not on the fast side and its very rev happy but other than that it has a pretty good suspension. It might seem that it has a lot of body roll from the outside but once you drive it you dont feel any body roll which is kinda odd. I would still take my ///M over it though.

My other friends also has a 350z and i drove for about a week or so because i was "taking care" of it for him. But that is one mean beast! The speed is there the handling is there everything is there. Oh yeah it sounds great too... but it is still very heavy on the turns like everyone else has said, and it doesnt feel as light as my ///M either...

Still waiting to drive a G35 though... any offers?


JEFF

[canadianm3]

i just love it when people say this car would be better if it had mor hp,it doesnt so it isn't

[comptechgsr]

i just love it when people say this car would be better if it had mor hp,it doesnt so it isn't


it does in europe :violinist :violinist :violinist :violinist :violinist
along with a 6 speed (for the 3.2) and power rear windows for the 2 doors (ahhhhh, lol).

[skratch]

in 96 ok it took 9 years.the euro spec had 321 hp.Name another car that had more hp stock for its same price range.

The supra was close with 320 but weighed more than the m3.Im looking for ring time on a euro spec right now,Im sure its as fast if not faster than a e46 m3.

guys iv been in a euro spec when I was in greece last summer.Are M3's are not even in the same leage.Go drive a 325 and then drive your car .Thats what it felt like in the euro spec.

That car keeps up with brand new cars to this day.Give the euro e36 the same gearing as the e46 and it will shit all over it.

I would take an evo2 m3 over a brand new e46 anyday of the week.

[canadianm3]

I am so sick of reading"how good are our cars" our cars are as good as they are to us. we are enthusiasts of bmw,especially m cars. There is heritage in the motorsport badge,whether it is the fastest car or not.

[mobil1]

in 96 ok it took 9 years.the euro spec had 321 hp.Name another car that had more hp stock for its same price range.

The supra was close with 320 but weighed more than the m3.Im looking for ring time on a euro spec right now,Im sure its as fast if not faster than a e46 m3.

guys iv been in a euro spec when I was in greece last summer.Are M3's are not even in the same leage.Go drive a 325 and then drive your car .Thats what it felt like in the euro spec.

That car keeps up with brand new cars to this day.Give the euro e36 the same gearing as the e46 and it will shit all over it.

I would take an evo2 m3 over a brand new e46 anyday of the week.


Just because a car has more horsepower, does not in ANY way mean its better. If this were the case, then GM's would be the only thing people owned.

"Go drive a 325 and then drive your car. Thats what it felt like in the euro spec." Thats hard evidence man, damn I cant compete with that.

sdjkfsd god damn it i hate trying to be nice to ignorance safshdjkh

Reason for edit: I hate being mean

[borealiss]

Of course its a different class of car, its japanese. But to say that it took 10 years to "beat" our cars is a bit ignorant.

I still think an R33 would beat an M3. Its essentially the same motor as the R34, with mostly cosmetic and interior changes (GPS, engine managment display), and both have the ATTESSA system.

If you were to turbo an m3, thats around what? 6-9 grand depending on the kit? Drop the same amount into the skyline, and see what happens. The skylines were severly corked due to japans power restrictions.

The R33 is heavier probably because of its AWD (the R33 skyline actually came in non-turbo, turbo, 2wd, and 4wd for the general public. Im talking about the turbo 4wd GT-R). It also utilizes nissans ATTESSA system, which controls the car's all wheel drive capabilities. Its essentially an awd on demand system, and it diverts torque from the rear wheels to the front wheels as required, increasing traction with inputs from sensors in the car. If I remember correctly, it was also banned from its racing class because it slaughtered the competition.

I apologize if I come off as flaming, that is not my intention. This is a mere attempt to open the eyes of narrow minded individuals to other great things out there (and this time I am not pointing any fingers, this was a general post). Im just trying to get away from the whole german nazi tuner lol.


i'm specifically referring to the 2wd turbo r33. i have never driven an awd variant. when i've pushed the skyline hard coming out of corners i was amazed at how little lag the turbo had but for my driving style in tight turns i prefer more low end torque and the m3 delivers on that moreso than the r33 i drove. this is just in tune with my driving style, but i am by no means a professional driver. as for handling, stock for stock the r33 is a better but some strut bars and an aftermarket suspension setup on an m3 will even it up pretty damn quickly. drop in a turbo or sc depending on what you want and all this can be had for the price you could get a r33 rwd easily in the US market. yes, stock i realize that the r33 is a better car and can be boosted up the yin yang with stock internals but considering how much they cost in the US market vs an m3 w/ tricked out components it'd be pretty damn close.

[Def]

You must have driven a GTS-T Skyline. Comes with an RB25DET - single turbo 2.5L inline 6. I forget what they're rated at, but significantly less than the RB26DETT. The gearing, suspension and engine are all toned down on the GTS-T's compared to the AWD GTR's.

What you drove was basically like a 328i compared to an M3.



I'm not all over Skyline's nuts, as they do have their faults - but those cars can be blindingly fast with just a few mods on them(turning, braking, accelerating - everything), and are pretty quick stock.


There's a Best Motoring vid of an E46 M3 and E36 M3(both Euro spec) going at in on Tsukuba Circuit against a few JDM "supercars" (Skylines, RX-7 IIRC - things like that). The Japanese cars destroy the M3's. They're just engineered to be faster around a track than the Germany cars(which focus more on the driving feel). Doesn't make them nicer cars, just faster.

[mobil1]

There's a Best Motoring vid of an E46 M3 and E36 M3(both Euro spec) going at in on Tsukuba Circuit against a few JDM "supercars" (Skylines, RX-7 IIRC - things like that). The Japanese cars destroy the M3's. They're just engineered to be faster around a track than the Germany cars(which focus more on the driving feel). Doesn't make them nicer cars, just faster.

I again agree completely. Each car was built for a different purpose. Thats why it is so incredibly hard to compare euro vs jdm. Which is another reason why "took other companies 10 years to do what bmw did" is such a stupid statement. I know im flaming now, but really I've lost interest in arguing about this. He obviously cant see past his own garage, and thats okay, I'll let it be.

[shim]

in 96 ok it took 9 years.the euro spec had 321 hp.Name another car that had more hp stock for its same price range.

The supra was close with 320 but weighed more than the m3.Im looking for ring time on a euro spec right now,Im sure its as fast if not faster than a e46 m3.

you are an idiot. i'm sorry, but even if they "claimed" 320 hp from the factory, supras are actually underrated. they all dyno stock at 300 rwhp or more.... you know how easy it is to get power out of a MKIV?? try 1017 rwhp on stock internals....

[mobil1]

you are an idiot. i'm sorry, but even if they "claimed" 320 hp from the factory, supras are actually underrated. they all dyno stock at 300 rwhp or more.... you know how easy it is to get power out of a MKIV?? try 1017 rwhp on stock internals....


hot damn, i was beginning to think I was the only one that knew these two things...

MKIV's are god damn monsters, and

hes an idiot.

[comptechgsr]

There's a Best Motoring vid of an E46 M3 and E36 M3(both Euro spec) going at in on Tsukuba Circuit against a few JDM "supercars" (Skylines, RX-7 IIRC - things like that). The Japanese cars destroy the M3's. They're just engineered to be faster around a track than the Germany cars(which focus more on the driving feel). Doesn't make them nicer cars, just faster.


im not so sure if it applied to this race,
BUT,
i don't like the best motoring matchups b/c they'll race street tire vs. dot-r vs. full racing slicks many times.

Makes it pretty unfair.
Slap the same advans on each car, and i would enjoy more.

STILL, VERY entertaining.

[dorikin_86]

best motoring matchups are usually street tires vs street tires. They sometime throw in a 355 on slicks and a 911 gt3 on slicks for those 'two' to battle it out through traffic so I they're pretty fair.

The studie M3 with full coilovers/cage track car did 1:07.xx on tsukuba...evo MR stock does it in the 1:04's....and even though tsukuba is a smaller tighter course...the m3 has never matched an evo on a high speed track such as suzuka or fuji speedway or the local racetrack here in LA =)

[comptechgsr]

It sucks when they use the Yoko AO series tires...vs. michelin pilot sports or pirelli p-zeros.

=(

[mobil1]

Yea, i've seen a couple of best motoring vids that were a little :confused

But videos aside, the facts are still there.

[chewietobbacca]

you are an idiot. i'm sorry, but even if they "claimed" 320 hp from the factory, supras are actually underrated. they all dyno stock at 300 rwhp or more.... you know how easy it is to get power out of a MKIV?? try 1017 rwhp on stock internals....

i believe its listed as 320 because of Japanese power restrictions, but most dynos place it around or above 300 at the wheels for sure...

[Def]

The M3 vs. JDM Sports Cars definitely had all cars on street tires. Not sure how that isn't fair. In fact, the M3's were both slightly modded(probably viewer cars that volunteered them up for testing).

Whenever there is a modded RX-7 or Supra on the track at BMWCCA events they're always known as the "fast ones" - even my crapbox was remarked as being "pretty quick" compared to some pretty high dollar cars. It's basically a 180SX with a few mods on it.

[SharkedAvusM3]

I'm not so good at reading all the posts...but personally I am looking for a "second car", and despite my hatred for 'verts, I am looking at S2k, RX7 or Supra....what can I say? I mostly like the older cars...I'd buy a 2002 if I could rebuild it....

[shim]

i believe its listed as 320 because of Japanese power restrictions, but most dynos place it around or above 300 at the wheels for sure...
yea thats true..... i think for exporting out of japan, the highest number allowable is 320 hp & if selling in the japanese domestic market, the highest number allowable by the gov't is 280 hp....

[m thrizl]

gotta love my m3.........but, nsx's are sweet, so are supra tubos, but the baddest sports car of the last 15 years has to be the TT RX7, i had a 93, and yes, they are def notorious for engine and turbo failure........other than that, there is nothing about my m3 that i would consider superiour.

my opinions:

supra- too high of a demand, too much money

nsx-moderate demand, damn they hold there value, still too much money.

porsche 993- goddamn i love these, but you know there is way too much demand when the sell for more than a 996, sorry reputation excedes its cost

skyline-very little sex appeal, ive seen in person.....not bad, rather have a turbo m3 for a little less money.

rx7, my favorite, hard car to cherry pick, better off buying one cheap with a blown motor, and starting from scratch. other than eng/turbo, these cars are extremely solid.

to answer the orignal question......

IMO, no newer car compares with a e36 m3, its a different era, just like no mid eighties car compares with the cars i just listed.

[mobil1]

I think skylines are sexy as hell. Although I must agree that a good FD3S was superior in its time (damn 1.3L monsters).

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/evanescent12/311308_114_full.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/evanescent12/311308_107_full.jpg

Sexyyy


http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y54/evanescent12/RX720Black20high20rise20spoiler.jpg

Simple but sexyyy

[m thrizl]

yeah, those skylines are pretty hot, never driven one, have driven vr4 3kgt, not at all impressed, too bulky, i would imagine a skyline feels similiar.....rx7 tt, what a blast to drive, bueatiful inside and out.

[dorikin_86]

I've driven a lot of jdm cars while i lived in NZ...while the GTR is fast...i still much prefer the rx7..so much lighter on its feet...

for those that hasn't driven a gtr...it really feels just like a supra to me...with a bit more power maybe...but i can't quite distinguish them when driven on public roads. The gtr understeers pretty badly even with its fancy 4wd but then again..proper tuning and alignment can get that fixed =)

The car that almost nobody ever mentions and which i'm very impressed with is the galant VR4 of the previous bodystyle....2.5L twin sequential turbo 280hp with a silky gearbox...nothing like teh junk we got here......it drove just like a e36 m3 sedan but with the benefits of 4wd...truly one car that's close to a e36 m3 here.

[MCoupe434]

I think that the S4 is a comparable car. Esp. w/ the quattro. They are fun cars, a bit understated styling wise but still very nice.

[S2k Vlad]

G35 is more luxury then a sports car though. In no way it tries to save weight or adjust the suspension for a sports right. If you want pure handling 350z track with adjusting the camber does the job. I took a 350z on the twisties and it was pretty good. Never had the chance to drive a Supra or RX7 though.

Cars that are up there with the M3

Supra (Can do it all drag and it has handles)
RX7 (handles well)
NSX (even though it cost too much it does look better)
EVO
RX8 belive it or not this car is slow as hell but it does handle very well
ITR (FWD BUT THE ONLY FWD car that comes close will do a good job at the track)
M coupe??? come on :stickoutt

S2000 doesnt have the low end grunt but if the ITR and RX8 are there why not the S2000 it over powers those cars.


No one can combine luxury and speed like the "M" badge though.

[mobil1]

I think that the S4 is a comparable car. Esp. w/ the quattro. They are fun cars, a bit understated styling wise but still very nice.

Stock vs stock they are fairly comparible. But s4's are very undertuned, and with about 300 bucks would blow an m3 out of the water.