M42 turbo -specific Q's- yes I searched!

[bigbore]

So..............


I have sent money to gotboost? for his used mosselman Turbo kit
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=350252

so if all goes well :buttrock :eyecrazy :redspot




have a 93 318is M42 w/knock sensors.

My specific Q:
1.)does anybody know of any shop that is selling a "pre made"
exhaust manifold for my 4banger...???
throw me a link or if you make them shoot me a price.

I want FI...
a very reputable shop looking my car over says
$6K to $7K CDN tuned running 3wks..all from scratch.
a Big part of this cost is making the exhaust manifold..!

2.)Would the M42 E30 turbo exhaust mani work? they seem more available
like as in direct bolt..im thinking yes!? am I wrong?

I am not opossed to DASC as im sure people will mention it.
I "heard" that the intake charge is hotter then a turbo
for the specific charger used in their kit..
regardless the cheapest I found a DASC for was $3500 u.s.
converting to $4200CDN so after intercooler, etc
probably work out to more then a custom Fi solution..!
3.) cheapest you've found a DASC for?
also any Dealers for them in Canada..

thanks..

CLiff notes:
1.)does anybody know of any shop that is selling a "pre made"
exhaust manifold for my 4banger...???
throw me a link or if you make them shoot me a price.

2.)Would the M42 E30 turbo exhaust mani work? they seem more available
like as in direct bolt..im thinking yes!? am I wrong?

3.) cheapest you've found a DASC for?
also any Dealers for them in Canada..

[ZeroG]

have a 93 318is M42 w/knock sensors.

My specific Q:
1.)does anybody know of any shop that is selling a "pre made"
exhaust manifold for my 4banger...???
throw me a link or if you make them shoot me a price.


Do you mean Turbo Manifold? The only Turbo Kit that exisit is Mosselman, check http://www.kormanfastbmw.com. If you are looking for a regular manifold the only company that I know of is Supersprint.



I want FI...
a very reputable shop looking my car over says
$6K to $7K CDN tuned running 3wks..all from scratch.
a Big part of this cost is making the exhaust manifold..!


Sounds about right for a custom kit. Do you know how they plan to handle the fuel?



2.)Would the M42 E30 turbo exhaust mani work? they seem more available
like as in direct bolt..im thinking yes!? am I wrong?

It's an M42 so it may fit on the engine. With the Turbo and everything, I don't know, it might have a problem with the motor mounts.



I am not opossed to DASC as im sure people will mention it.
I "heard" that the intake charge is hotter then a turbo
for the specific charger used in their kit..
regardless the cheapest I found a DASC for was $3500 u.s.
converting to $4200CDN so after intercooler, etc
probably work out to more then a custom Fi solution..!
3.) cheapest you've found a DASC for?
also any Dealers for them in Canada..

thanks..


I have seen DASC group buys for $2850 us Best place to order from is either DA directly or Understeer.com

-Chad

[AlaskaBlue]

I think bigbore is talking about a a exhaust manifold that hooks directly to a turbo. So basically the exhaust manifold needed to run a turbo.

[bigbore]

Do you mean Turbo Manifold? The only Turbo Kit that exisit is Mosselman, check http://www.kormanfastbmw.com. If you are looking for a regular manifold the only company that I know of is Supersprint.

No i actually meant the FLUX CAPACITOR MANIFOLD so i can reach the critical
88mph.. :stickoutt

actually TDI also had a ready to install kit..
http://www.tdi-plc.com/bmwE30318iS.htm
The car comes with a very nice factory dual mani connecting to a Y-pipe
at least thats what it came with for me.




Sounds about right for a custom kit. Do you know how they plan to handle the fuel?
Again why im asking about "turbo mani's" the fabrcation would be decent chunk..
not that it's really the issue more that they're VW/AUDI freaks they
have never turbo'd a bm ..
but i found great pics of some T-mani(s)..so im sure they can manage..
fuel: sds I'd think, they're a canadian co, no duty :)




It's an M42 so it may fit on the engine. With the Turbo and everything, I don't know, it might have a problem with the motor mounts.
well ok yeah kinda what I thought myself...
Anybody KNOW though? you do raise a good point about the "mounts"
so the motors are mounted differently then? that could be an issue
trying to use a readily available E30 one then?



I have seen DASC group buys for $2850 us Best place to order from is either DA directly or Understeer.com

got a link? i never found DA home page in a google search..

[MrBlonde]

It's so not worth doing anything other than a Downing/Atlanta supercharger installation. For more power still, do an engine swap for a 6 cylinder and then add FI.

http://www.downingatlanta.com/

[bigbore]

It's so not worth doing anything other than a Downing/Atlanta supercharger installation. For more power still, do an engine swap for a 6 cylinder and then add FI.

http://www.downingatlanta.com/

you kill me :stickoutt

It's never worth it to do anything to your car period even a 750 V12
cause you'll never get the money back..EVER period.
Im not after the fastest car ever, just a Fi'd 318is
this seems to be more & more the ultra elite clique
as everybody is just swapping in 6cyl motors..

"just swap a motor" since i know it's more then just "plop"
(fabbed mounts, wiring, upgraded suspension, brakes, etc)
I consider this to be more expensive..

what is the weight difference between a M50 6cyl & the M42 4cyl..?
out of curiousity though???

[bmwman91]

The difference is like 60lbs. Lots of weight infront of the wheels. Thank goodness someone else here is on the same page...the "swap in a 6" idea is the cop-out. Tuning seems to be only about who's #'s are the biggest, not originality. Following the swap a 6 train of thought, we all should have just bought Civic's & spent $2000 to get 400WHP.

How soon do you NEED this done? There are very few places that have any FI stuff for the M42. Look up http://www.tdi-plc.com/bmwE30318iS.htm they have a kit for $3000 (British Pounds). EDIT: Duh you just posted that. D'oh!

BTW
Not bashing 6-swappers too badly or anything. It is jsut frustrating to see every M42 thread turn into a "swap a 6" discussion.

[MrBlonde]

you kill me :stickoutt

It's never worth it to do anything to your car period even a 750 V12
cause you'll never get the money back..EVER period.
Im not after the fastest car ever, just a Fi'd 318is
this seems to be more & more the ultra elite clique
as everybody is just swapping in 6cyl motors..

"just swap a motor" since i know it's more then just "plop"
(fabbed mounts, wiring, upgraded suspension, brakes, etc)
I consider this to be more expensive..

what is the weight difference between a M50 6cyl & the M42 4cyl..?
out of curiousity though???
What I mean by "not worth it" is that the cost <-> performance for making more power out of the little fours increases sharply after you exhaust the mass produced DASC option. In fact it increases beyond the cost of an engine swap.

I've seen an M44 turbo project up close and personal that made more power than an S50B32 engine when it was finished; you can get good power out of the little 4 bangers if you are determined. However it would be cheaper to do the engine swap - that's my point.

[MrBlonde]

..
BTW
Not bashing 6-swappers too badly or anything. It is jsut frustrating to see every M42 thread turn into a "swap a 6" discussion.
Maybe there is a reason for that.

If you want to work on your 4 cylinder, then you should go for it. Originality is good. However if swapping a 6 cylinder is cheaper and gives more power (and more potential) then there's nothing wrong with that being stated. You can still pursue your own ideas .. it's only information.

[bmwman91]

I know. I just say go for the M42 turbo. Once a few people actually stick with it the idea may grow. I made a huge tread in the E30 section back when I was planning to turbo mine (it has some useful info BTW...was called something along the lines of "M42 collaborative effort"). It is a lot of work to make this work, but if yyou have the $ & continues desire to do so it would be well worth it...both for the power and the uniqueness of yuor setup.

It is too bad you have such a short timeline. If you really wanted to do this full custom you should call up a place like Turbonetics for their recommendations o turbo's for your exact application. You would need larger injectors (24# for ~8psi most likely) and a stand aloe fuel management system (I highly recommend the build it yourself MegaSquirt controller). The factory ECU's tiing maps would probably work fine for under 10psi applications. The factory internals can handle up to about 8psi reliably, otherwise lower compression pistons are required.

In short, custom turboing an M42 is a bit of work. It would be a LOT of fun though, having that light front end with an extra 50hp (or more).

[943184dr]

What I mean by "not worth it" is that the cost <-> performance for making more power out of the little fours increases sharply after you exhaust the mass produced DASC option. In fact it increases beyond the cost of an engine swap.

I've seen an M44 turbo project up close and personal that made more power than an S50B32 engine when it was finished; you can get good power out of the little 4 bangers if you are determined. However it would be cheaper to do the engine swap - that's my point.

Including the cost of my car my total invesment is about $18k or about the price of a decent m3. all though my car has a very custom suspension as well as a built turbo motor spec'd to do 450bhp. In addition to that I have talked to Blown3 on many occasions about his setup and read up on it quite a bit (got whatever info the shop would be willing to tell me which wasn't much) personally I think there is something drastically wrong with his setup or the turbo is way too small because he needs to boost 21psi in order to only get 260whp.



In short, custom turboing an M42 is a bit of work. It would be a LOT of fun though, having that light front end with an extra 50hp (or more).

Not only that but the motor is lower to the ground and further back in the firewall giving you a lower center of gravity. AKA better handling :D

Tom

[bigbore]

The difference is like 60lbs. Lots of weight infront of the wheels. Thank goodness someone else here is on the same page...the "swap in a 6" idea is the cop-out. Tuning seems to be only about who's #'s are the biggest, not originality

thanks & thanks


What I mean by "not worth it" is that the cost <-> performance for making more power out of the little fours increases sharply after you exhaust the mass produced DASC option. In fact it increases beyond the cost of an engine swap.

you can get good power out of the little 4 bangers if you are determined. However it would be cheaper to do the engine swap - that's my point.

No actually im reeally believing the DASC will more expensive.
$4200cdn (after converting u.s.)+ shipping, taxes, install, etc..
or $7000(max) cdn with gasket stack, SDS standalone, intercooled, etc
now add, $pullies $standalone & $etc when i want to go from 5.5/6psi
to 8-9psi on the Dasc
at least this is my thinking..

Also all the kits i saw for turbo sported a Garret T25..@t 5.5psi
when i told the guys that are going to do this work about the T25
they said "man thats small! thats what i would turbo your bike with"
so they are selling "reliability" with these kits..

I have a great shop very close to me, so the fear of a tow doesn't scare me
these guys can do some sick sick work..
As a matter of fact I was also quoted:
$10k for a 540 motor swap on standalone, obvioulsy
$4k being the motor cost :eek:
I think i'd do that before just making the car a stock'ish 325is :stickoutt

I did email D.A no reply yet.. nothing used on ebay..
I just started this post to see if anybody knew of any
pre-made mani's

Oh & didn't BMW while competing in formula 1 have a "little" 4cyl
twin turbo'd putting out 1200+ hp???





Not only that but the motor is lower to the ground and further back in the firewall giving you a lower center of gravity. AKA better handling :D

Tom

:D thanks for the manifold info your pm

943184dr since your in here reading this
Do you think the E30 M42 turbo manifodl could work in the E36 engine bay?
http://www.proturbo.fi/index_en.htm

e30 mani
http://www.proturbo.fi/pakosarjat/bmw%20e30%20turbomanifold.gif

e30 short mani
http://www.proturbo.fi/pakosarjat/bmw%20e30%202%20turbomanifold.gif

adapter for Stock Mani :eek:
http://www.proturbo.fi/pakosarjat/sovite.GIF

looking at those I really want to think yes, 943184dr your thoughts>?

[Boosted318is]

Everyone who opts for the 6 cylinder swap sells out on the "cool" factor of a FI engine (i.e. sound, bragging rights, wow factor, show value). Those who just swap in a N/A six just go for "normal" every day power that 80% of the e36 Bimmers have. What makes them stand out?? I say go sexy and go FI!! it also shows that you are willing to take more of a risk / challenge. A FI car is cooler than a NA car any day in my opinion even if it is not as fast :buttrock

Best of luck with your project :buttrock

[MrBlonde]

No actually im reeally believing the DASC will more expensive.

:-)


Oh & didn't BMW while competing in formula 1 have a "little" 4cyl
twin turbo'd putting out 1200+ hp???

Yeah, the M12 in qualifying trim. Full house race engine with single turbo running 60 psi and jungle juice racefuel. They even had to run without a full rebuild for hours and hours.

[943184dr]

well with the comparisons you made the DASC will actually be a cheaper route but not give you any room to grow. if they say $7k max expect it to go close to $7k. I have almost $3k in my motor alone (forge low comp pistsons, headwork etc.) as for the E30 m42 manifold fitting. it would be impossible for that to fit. the head is just way too close to the firewall for it to to work. you are going to have to custom build a manifold or wait a little bit for me to get my motor mount released and get my manifold and motor mount and you wont have any problems then. because they fit very well with plenty of room for a wastegate dump tube and downpipe.

Tom

[bmwman91]

I wonder if those manifolds are for the M10 or M42.....

[bmwman91]

94318i do you have the turbo down below the engine or up front more or less behind the passenger headlight. That is where E30's put the turbo usually, under the hood right where the washer resivoir is (used to be). If those manifolds are for the M42 they would prolly work on the E30 for that type of placement.

[943184dr]

94318i do you have the turbo down below the engine or up front more or less behind the passenger headlight. That is where E30's put the turbo usually, under the hood right where the washer resivoir is (used to be). If those manifolds are for the M42 they would prolly work on the E30 for that type of placement.

I have my turbo down below the engine (the only place that i think you can get it to fit) as for working on an E30, isn't that what they are designed for? I would think it should fit just fine in an E30 because they are designed for that but personally I find it kind of hard to beleive due to how close the m42 is to the strut tower.

Tom

[bmwman91]

Oh there is some room under the E30 hood. Though these are the only 2 pics I currently have of my-underhood (showing the turbo placeable area anyway), it should be a little ovbious that there is room for a turbo. Every M20T I have seen has it right in there where the washer rexivoir was.

http://www.e30tuner.com/images/my318is/mods/engpaint/bmw001.jpg
http://www.e30tuner.com/images/my318is/mods/engpaint/bmw003.jpg

Yeah sorry there is no REALLY good shot of it. I will try to take one at some point should I still feel the need to, after I get offa work.

[Boosted318is]

Nice Engine!!!

[943184dr]

Oh there is some room under the E30 hood. Though these are the only 2 pics I currently have of my-underhood (showing the turbo placeable area anyway), it should be a little ovbious that there is room for a turbo. Every M20T I have seen has it right in there where the washer rexivoir was.

http://www.e30tuner.com/images/my318is/mods/engpaint/bmw001.jpg
http://www.e30tuner.com/images/my318is/mods/engpaint/bmw003.jpg

Yeah sorry there is no REALLY good shot of it. I will try to take one at some point should I still feel the need to, after I get offa work.

yes, I realize that m20 turbo guys place the turbo there. I have seen one personally that a local owns. But keep in mind that the m42 is lower and further back in the engine bay that and 6cyl motors. thus making it even closer to the strut tower. now I haven't personally seen a m42 E30 as of yet but I would imagine that you would have the same space restriction. I was mainly talking about E36 cars, with those I know for a fact that a manifold of that nature would not work unless you made it have very long runners, equal length and managed to get it all between a custom motor mount that took the place of the A/C and the head.

Tom

[ehlpitel]

damn, so 943184dr is the only guy with a turbo m42?

[bigbore]

I have my turbo down below the engine (the only place that i think you can get it to fit)

Tom


when my E36 was on the hoist mounting the turbo underneath
seemed like a good spot..

But.. one of the guys said, probably not the best spot!
can't remember why though, water hitting a hot turbo or somethin
piping length?? got me? I'll have to raise the question again..

do you have any pics of yours mounted? say on hoist (undershot) perhaps??

[943184dr]

when my E36 was on the hoist mounting the turbo underneath
seemed like a good spot..

But.. one of the guys said, probably not the best spot!
can't remember why though, water hitting a hot turbo or somethin
piping length?? got me? I'll have to raise the question again..

do you have any pics of yours mounted? say on hoist (undershot) perhaps??

I will have pics shortly on the site.......... as for water hitting the turbo. what are they talking about? there isn't anything to do with water anywhere near that area. honestly good luck with getting the turbo to go up top. you are going to need some seriously custom piping.

Tom

[bigbore]

I will have pics shortly on the site..........
as for water hitting the turbo. what are they talking about? there isn't anything to do with water anywhere near that area.

Tom

pics would be very very cool :thumbup:
I stumbled across some other threads from March
people were asking for pics then too, get on it :stickoutt

as for the water hitting turbo thing, thats what i said!
I can't remember what they said, but iam in Canada
winter, spring you drive through lots of Crud, ice puddles, etc..
so very easy for lots of water to come in contact with the underside
of the car

Granted i've never had a rotor crack from it.. but warping

I got the impression that they;d rather i get a DASC
he said it would be a "bitch" to make a manifold, but he could do it...
again they seemed more into me swapping a 540 in :confused

I emailed Korman ...at least that cen be built on :thumbup:
unlike the dasc..?

Or am i wron there..? can a LArger SC be attached to the DASC
SC mounting intake mani??
Like to eatons have a common bolt mounting pattern
(dreaming of course) :lol

I know you can get a pulley for the DASC, but that model Charger
will only put out soo much psi efficiently

[943184dr]

pics would be very very cool :thumbup:
I stumbled across some other threads from March
people were asking for pics then too, get on it :stickoutt

as for the water hitting turbo thing, thats what i said!
I can't remember what they said, but iam in Canada
winter, spring you drive through lots of Crud, ice puddles, etc..
so very easy for lots of water to come in contact with the underside
of the car

Granted i've never had a rotor crack from it.. but warping

I got the impression that they;d rather i get a DASC
he said it would be a "bitch" to make a manifold, but he could do it...
again they seemed more into me swapping a 540 in :confused

I emailed Korman ...at least that cen be built on :thumbup:
unlike the dasc..?

Or am i wron there..? can a LArger SC be attached to the DASC
SC mounting intake mani??
Like to eatons have a common bolt mounting pattern
(dreaming of course) :lol

I know you can get a pulley for the DASC, but that model Charger
will only put out soo much psi efficiently

well swapping in a 540 motor would be great but you need to make a custom manifold for that too? that is even more of a bitch cuz you need to build it around the steering rack?:confused

The mosselman kit cant really be built on because just about every part is at its limit if you were to bump up the boost to 8psi or so. once you hit that point you need to start getting a larger turbo, then larger charge pipes then bigger intercooler and injectors, its really a pointless kit unless you dont want anything more than what it can do at 8psi.

A DASC with a intercooler, pully and if you have a m44 NickG's software (I know you have a m42 so it doesn't apply) then you are at the max on that as far as the S/C goes you can still do cams, headwork etc.

I have the pics, just need to upload them to the site, i'll see if i cant get them up today.

Tom

[bigbore]

well swapping in a 540 motor would be great but you need to make a custom manifold for that too? that is even more of a bitch cuz you need to build it around the steering rack? :confused

The mosselman kit cant really be built on because just about every part is at its limit if you were to bump up the boost to 8psi or so. once you hit that point you need to start getting a larger turbo, then larger charge pipes then bigger intercooler and injectors, its really a pointless kit unless you dont want anything more than what it can do at 8psi.

A DASC with a intercooler, pully and if you have a m44 NickG's software (I know you have a m42 so it doesn't apply) then you are at the max on that as far as the S/C goes you can still do cams, headwork etc.

I have the pics, just need to upload them to the site, i'll see if i cant get them up today.

Tom

thanks for bringing that up..about the 540
I'd really much rather keep the cars handling then have massive Hp :)

The mosselman manifold is a weird looking piece (what i've seen)
very short compared to other mani's i've seen..
or maybe that was the intake mani in their kit's picture? :eyecrazy

http://www.kormanfastbmw.com/mman1.9turbo.jpg

[black318i]

DASC runs 7psi stock not 5.5 (Pulleys 3.6"=9.5-10psi, 3.4=11+psi, 3.25=15+psi). The Eaton SC is good for about 15psi. You can run it higher but the SC's efficiency starts to go down. I don't think you will get any more from a m/mp90 the m62 was designed for 2.5L to 4.0L engines. I think a Whipple Charger would be a better option to try. I don't know of any intercoolers available for the DASC yet. I’ve heard about a couple companies that are doing some R&D, but nothing beyond that yet. As far as a turbo kit I would get a mosselman kit and swap the turbo along with some custom tuning. Just my 2 cents.

Make your own mani. You can get some of the flanges on ebay.
http://www.neonrick.com/images/maniparts.jpg
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1140482&page=1
http://toyotaperformance.com/turbo_header.htm
http://www.neonrick.com/turbomanifold_howto.htm

[bigbore]

DASC runs 7psi stock not 5.5 (Pulleys 3.6"=9.5-10psi, 3.4=11+psi, 3.25=15+psi). The Eaton SC is good for about 15psi. You can run it higher but the SC's efficiency starts to go down. I don't think you will get any more from a m/mp90 the m62 was designed for 2.5L to 4.0L engines.

As far as a turbo kit I would get a mosselman kit and swap the turbo along with some custom tuning. Just my 2 cents.

Make your own mani. You can get some of the flanges on ebay.
http://www.neonrick.com/images/maniparts.jpg


Dude :buttrock best DASC info yet! Downing didn't even email that info in their "pdf" :stickoutt
they did mention it was originaly used on mercedes & stuff

So i guess you're saying there are smaller pullies available no problem..?
that makes the kit a little tweakable, excellent..!!
downing didn't mention...I aksed about intercoolers in my email
they jsut sent a pdf..extoling the virtues..

Yes I was thinking just get the Mosselman kit & build on it
but it sucks that they won't sell the system without the turbo
or the option to upgrade turbo's :(

thanks for the DIY mani links, cool stuff!

BTW peoples this is Bigbore's BRO s my bro has a E30 325is
I have the E36 318is

This is my car:
My E36 M42 (http://www.freewebs.com/318e36/index.htm)
check it out if interested

[black318i]

Eaton SC's are used in many OEM apps (ford, gm, jag, mbz). itsallaboutspeed.com has pulleys for the DASC. I personally would not go anything smaller than 3.4" on an internally stock motor, but I also live in Cali where I'm limited to 91 octane as far as pump fuel. If you bump up the boost I suggest ditching the FMU and getting bigger injectors and dyno tuning. With an m42 you will probably need piggyback or stand alone eng management. I use a unichip and love it. I've looked into the dynojet powercommander and it look like a pretty good option as well. Maybe even swap over to OBDII. You could go with water injection also to help cool the charge and it also helps seal the SC.

[2002maniac]

e30 mani
http://www.proturbo.fi/pakosarjat/bmw%20e30%20turbomanifold.gif
M10 manifold

e30 short mani
http://www.proturbo.fi/pakosarjat/bmw%20e30%202%20turbomanifold.gif
M10 manifold

adapter for Stock Mani :eek:
http://www.proturbo.fi/pakosarjat/sovite.GIF
M20 adapter

All the M42 turbo's I have seen (never seen a mosselman or any kit) have used custom manifolds.

[ehlpitel]

yeah, with info provided in this thread, it seems all you need to do is a reasonable amount of thinking and just get someone(friend or shop) to weld the manifold

[943184dr]

ok guys sorry for the big delay but here are some pics for the time being, i'm going to upload some more later today hopefully www.m42werkz.com/pics

Bigbore: about the mosselman kit, that manifold that you see is a exhaust manifold and then that peice with a odd bend is an adapter that attaches to that manifold as an extension for the turbo. this places the turbo right down by the transmission. this allows them to keep the AC, because the physical size of the turbo is extremely small when compared to mine (they use the tiny garrett t25) and also by it being so small it allows them to place it down the low and not have the danger of some road debris getting ahold of it if/when you were to drive over something like that and damaging/destroying the turbo or any other related part of the system. The charge pipe coming off of the turbo to the intercooler in my setup is the same place used on the I6 cars. personally i dont like it because it has nothing to protect it and it becomes so close to the ground, but it is proven to be the spot to put it with the I6 cars. later on i'm going to try and route it up top where the AC lines where all be it a more complex solution but at least it would no longer be so close to the ground.


Tom

[bigbore]

ok guys sorry for the big delay but here are some pics for the time being, i'm going to upload some more later today hopefully www.m42werkz.com/pics

Bigbore: about the mosselman kit, that manifold that you see is a exhaust manifold and then that peice with a odd bend is an adapter that attaches to that manifold as an extension for the turbo. this places the turbo right down by the transmission. this allows them to keep the AC, because the physical size of the turbo is extremely small when compared to mine (they use the tiny garrett t25) and also by it being so small it allows them to place it down the low and not have the danger of some road debris getting ahold of it if/when you were to drive over something like that and damaging/destroying the turbo or any other related part of the system. The charge pipe coming off of the turbo to the intercooler in my setup is the same place used on the I6 cars. personally i dont like it because it has nothing to protect it and it becomes so close to the ground, but it is proven to be the spot to put it with the I6 cars. later on i'm going to try and route it up top where the AC lines where all be it a more complex solution but at least it would no longer be so close to the ground.


Tom

Bro thank you Soo much I mailed your link to the guys :buttrock

also a Guy in Montreal not far from me has a mosselman kit installed
on his car!! he sent me pics too :buttrock

so this should really help in the
"we've never done this on this car how do we make it fit"
type thing..

So do you have your stuff available for sale yet?
like laying there waiting to ship or would you need to duplicate those from scratch??

again thanks Sooooooooo much..

[!RocknE30!]

:redspot

Good time for me to finally come to the boards and check for M42 FI information eh?

I was a little confused by the posts, but you guys are recommending that the turbo should be mounted down low around the tranny and not where you mount them up by the front headlight correct? Just the photos of headers kind of mixed me up on what will work better.

And the mosselman kit is still confusing me manifold wise..I am seeing the part of the manifold with the flanges where it will connect to the block and then no downpipe, but then there is the turbo adapter..Do you use a stock piece or am I not seeing something?

Thanks,
John.

[bigbore]

And the mosselman kit is still confusing me manifold wise..I am seeing the part of the manifold with the flanges where it will connect to the block and then no downpipe, but then there is the turbo adapter..Do you use a stock piece or am I not seeing something?

Thanks,
John.

you have an e30 mount it where ever :stickoutt

look further back for the pre made manifolds pics posted..
those are for E30's

[943184dr]

Bro thank you Soo much I mailed your link to the guys :buttrock

also a Guy in Montreal not far from me has a mosselman kit installed
on his car!! he sent me pics too :buttrock

so this should really help in the
"we've never done this on this car how do we make it fit"
type thing..

So do you have your stuff available for sale yet?
like laying there waiting to ship or would you need to duplicate those from scratch??

again thanks Sooooooooo much..

shoot me a pm and we can go over parts.

Tom

[943184dr]

:redspot

Good time for me to finally come to the boards and check for M42 FI information eh?

I was a little confused by the posts, but you guys are recommending that the turbo should be mounted down low around the tranny and not where you mount them up by the front headlight correct? Just the photos of headers kind of mixed me up on what will work better.

And the mosselman kit is still confusing me manifold wise..I am seeing the part of the manifold with the flanges where it will connect to the block and then no downpipe, but then there is the turbo adapter..Do you use a stock piece or am I not seeing something?

Thanks,
John.

The turbo in the mosselman kit is mounted down by the transmission on e36 cars. up by the headlight the e30 chassis is the only car you would be able to pull that off in. basically what that adapter does it is twists the mounting of the turbo and moves it down several inches so as opposed to being up by the motor mount its down by the transmission.

Tom

[toyosupr]

LOoks like fun, just to mention a few things, once you turbo the m42 it will weigh as much as a 6cyl im sure so thats a toss up


Those pics of the manifold and such.. if you dump your exhaust from the wastegate like that it will mess with the back pressure and kinda disrupt the air exiting the turbo you need to dump back into the exhaust farther and at a large angle rather then 90. i just dump into the air but some cant do that since there are laws.

the manifold to wastegate tube is long, short is best, i think boost spikes can occur, close is best there.

Ill have a crazy manifold out for it asap, i was interested in this a long time ago but now that i have the car i wanted i can get this going. www.neukin.com is some work we do but the site needs work since its the new one. The manifold will be somewhere close to $700 id guess and im sure you can toss a t4 or t3 turbine on there and any wastegate flange you need. Ill see what i can do but i want to use a nice collector and close to = length but a tubular manifold will perform alot better compared to the log style that most are making. iv seen as much a a 50hp increase in the top end.

ill have to fine the head flange first if anyone know, i can have them made but links are great. thanks -Alex

[943184dr]

LOoks like fun, just to mention a few things, once you turbo the m42 it will weigh as much as a 6cyl im sure so thats a toss up


Those pics of the manifold and such.. if you dump your exhaust from the wastegate like that it will mess with the back pressure and kinda disrupt the air exiting the turbo you need to dump back into the exhaust farther and at a large angle rather then 90. i just dump into the air but some cant do that since there are laws.

the manifold to wastegate tube is long, short is best, i think boost spikes can occur, close is best there.

Ill have a crazy manifold out for it asap, i was interested in this a long time ago but now that i have the car i wanted i can get this going. www.neukin.com is some work we do but the site needs work since its the new one. The manifold will be somewhere close to $700 id guess and im sure you can toss a t4 or t3 turbine on there and any wastegate flange you need. Ill see what i can do but i want to use a nice collector and close to = length but a tubular manifold will perform alot better compared to the log style that most are making. iv seen as much a a 50hp increase in the top end.

ill have to fine the head flange first if anyone know, i can have them made but links are great. thanks -Alex

ok, first off even a turbo m42 will weight at least 100lbs less than a 6cyl car. in addition to that they sit lower and further back in the engine bay giving you a lower center of gravity. Now the pictures may not display it but that wastgate dump tube is may 1' long tops most likely around 9-10" even then you honestly think a wastegate could even fit any clsoer than it already is? when it comes to the type of wastegate if you aren't using a tial, turbonetics or a turbosmart (which all use the same flange if i remember correctly) you are wasting your time. good luck building a equal lenght manifold and being able to sell it for that price. it may cost you that much just in materials to build the thing many many times to be able to get it right.

Tom

[toyosupr]

That price is low, for a stainless steel manifold with a lifetime warranty of this caliber its a great price. My prices are close to 50-20% less then others. The Tial 44mm is my choice and doesnt use bolts but a v-band clamp the 38mm is small and something large is better for a low boost large turbo setup.

From the pic that wasnt the dump thats 1' long... the dump goes right into the exhaust, i was talking about the manifold to gate tube thats close to 10" long and thats not good. i will have it closer and thats not a problem.

[943184dr]

That price is low, for a stainless steel manifold with a lifetime warranty of this caliber its a great price. My prices are close to 50-20% less then others. The Tial 44mm is my choice and doesnt use bolts but a v-band clamp the 38mm is small and something large is better for a low boost large turbo setup.

From the pic that wasnt the dump thats 1' long... the dump goes right into the exhaust, i was talking about the manifold to gate tube thats close to 10" long and thats not good. i will have it closer and thats not a problem.


Wow, if you manage to fit a "large" turbo for these motors and even a tial 38mm let alone a 44mm in that part of the engine bay i wil be thoroughly impressed.

Tom

[!RocknE30!]

The turbo in the mosselman kit is mounted down by the transmission on e36 cars. up by the headlight the e30 chassis is the only car you would be able to pull that off in. basically what that adapter does it is twists the mounting of the turbo and moves it down several inches so as opposed to being up by the motor mount its down by the transmission.

Tom

Oh I justs got the Mosselman kit now..I was thinking this was for an E30 M42 and not an E36. Now I get it, it just moves the manifold out a few inches to have the turbo placed right where they want it.

And you are running the SMT6 piggy back setup correct? I'm still trying to learn everything about it as piggy back/engine management systems aren't big in my knowledge department as of now :)

[943184dr]

Oh I justs got the Mosselman kit now..I was thinking this was for an E30 M42 and not an E36. Now I get it, it just moves the manifold out a few inches to have the turbo placed right where they want it.

And you are running the SMT6 piggy back setup correct? I'm still trying to learn everything about it as piggy back/engine management systems aren't big in my knowledge department as of now :)

I am running the smt6 piggyback. personally i could barely consider it a piggyback i would consider it more of a standalone. as it allows you to control just about everything with the engine. the only real difference is that it can NOT accept a wideband o2 signal so you have to have another display for that. oh well, for a wideband i'm running a zeitronix wideband zt-2 kit. glad i could be of some help.

Tom

[!RocknE30!]

Alright, I've got a question for anyone running an M42 turbo thats mounted up by the front headlight. The ac compressor (I believe) sits pretty much directly under where the turbo and manifold will be so..

Wouldn't this pretty much eliminate any cold air from entering the cab when the a/c is on? And since I live in Arizona, cold air is definitely needed. I need to jack the car up tomorrow and crawl around underneath, I am thinking you could fit a turbocharger in their if you tried hard enough..

So, unless there is a way around having super-heated "Air Conditioning" the top mount isn't going to be a very good idea for the summer months.

[bmwman91]

It would be fine. The turbo would be on top of all the piping for one...and most of the heat will either rise or be blown back & under the car by the wind while moving.

More importantly, no air passes through the compressor. That stuff just cools the freon which travels through tubes to a heat exchanger (under the dash I believe) where the vent air is cooled. All I would worry about is making sure that the rubber lines for the AC are shelded from the heat well so they won't crack or melt. The coil packs will need to be relocated, and the washer stuff removed. Just heat-shield the hell out of everything around the turbo.

Here is one:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=55006&stc=1
http://www.ticco.com/cars/318tic_2002/001.jpg
http://www.ticco.com/cars/318tic_2002/002.jpg

[!RocknE30!]

Does the member of that E30 turbo go on this site or any of the other bmw boards? I am interested to ask him some questions on the setup and really hope there is a picture of his manifold (all by itself).

The biggest problem I'm running into is the manifold. Sure you can buy those pre-made ones for 400-500 pounds which is $750 (for the normal steel version, almost a G for the stainless) but that is a lot of money. I have zero welding experience and don't have any close friends that could weld something like that for less then say a shop is going to charge (aka the bro discount).

I've been looking at those How-To's on manifolds, so I will have to ask around and see if I can find anyone that can weld. My dad has friend with a machine shop, I'll have to talk to him and see what he can come up with.

From what I can tell with the manifolds whose pics have been posted are equal length which seems to be a big pain in the ass. I guess the best bet is to buy quite a bit of pre-bent tubing (or something that can be substituted for pipe in the earlier stages) and connect the dots in a way. A lot of mock ups, etc seems to be the way to do it. If anyone has any input on anything that involves the manifold I'd appreciate it; whether its on mock-ups or anything. I've got a while until schools out for the summer (and the fun begins) so I will be trying to have some sort of mockup by then. Luckily we got a blown T3 turbo from a friend for free for just this reason :)

[!RocknE30!]

I'm just going to bump this thread up incase bmwman hasn't seen my previous post. If all else fails I'll just shoot him a pm..
-John.

[bmwman91]

No, I am fairly certain he is not on the forums.

[bigbore]

So..............


I have sent money to gotboost? for his used mosselman Turbo kit
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=350252

so if all goes well :buttrock :eyecrazy :redspot

[2002maniac]

Sorry if my post was confusing. Someone posted a link to a site that sells these maniflods, and I was pointing out that none of them are for a M42. The first two are for M10 motors ans the 3rd is an adapter for the M20. THat is all I was pointing out. Sorry for the confusion.

e30 mani
http://www.proturbo.fi/pakosarjat/bmw%20e30%20turbomanifold.gif
M10 manifold

e30 short mani
http://www.proturbo.fi/pakosarjat/bmw%20e30%202%20turbomanifold.gif
M10 manifold

adapter for Stock Mani :eek:
http://www.proturbo.fi/pakosarjat/sovite.GIF
M20 adapter

All the M42 turbo's I have seen (never seen a mosselman or any kit) have used custom manifolds.

[bigbore]

Sorry if my post was confusing. Someone posted a link to a site that sells these maniflods, and I was pointing out that none of them are for a M42. The first two are for M10 motors ans the 3rd is an adapter for the M20. THat is all I was pointing out. Sorry for the confusion.

Now im confused the post you are making now is about a post from 1 month
ago that had 7,8 replies in between now & then...!?

The 1st two headers say (on their website) E30-turbo exhaust manifolds..?
http://www.proturbo.fi/index_en.htm check it out..


anyways..

[2002maniac]

Now im confused the post you are making now is about a post from 1 month
ago that had 7,8 replies in between now & then...!?

The 1st two headers say (on their website) E30-turbo exhaust manifolds..?
http://www.proturbo.fi/index_en.htm check it out..


anyways..
Yeah, I quoted myself. I hadnt checked the FI board since then and some people had been confused by my post. I was just trying to say that none of the pictured manifolds will fit a m42! I realize that it says E30 manifold but it is for a M10 NOT a M42. They are 2 completely different engines offered in in the e30. Are those pics you posted from your setup?

[bigbore]

Are those pics you posted from your setup?
No they are pics frpm a guy that had a mosselman kit on his 318
I was just posting them for others so they have something to go off
of if ever getting a custom turbo made/installed.



So..............
I have sent money to gotboost? for his used mosselman Turbo kit
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=350252

so if all goes well :buttrock :eyecrazy :redspot

All did not go well.......leaving it at that..some1 local should buy it!!
So after that little 3month delay my car is now in a shop...

mani will be a Mosselman knock off, tubular why? I want to keep my AC
will have a extra injector & controller garret T28 or whatever it's called
should come in at about what a dasc would've cost ...

will get some pics going eventually, check my webpage PAGE4
to see how the car looks now ( if interested?) vaders, coils, 540i rims
>>HERE<< (http://www.freewebs.com/318e36/index.htm)

rolling Video..last 75% curb gets yellow, 90degree right basically, q-time.avi (http://www.putfile.com/media.php?n=Picture-10249)


*bump

[bigbore]

coming along

http://www.e30tech.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11649