Didn't pull on an S4 with my E46 M3??

[bradb1us]

Twin turbo'd version. Maybe exhaust. From a dig, up to about 70 mph and I didn't pull at all! Granted, I only have 800 miles on my car and don't shift above 6500 RPM's, but I thought I was going to walk him pretty easily. I know with a chip, intake and exhaust they should have a lot more power than me, but it just made me want to spend more money on my car (AA supercharger??)!

[crowderd]

With the GIAC X-Chip and an intake I could hang dead even with E46 M3's (granted, I did go through 3 sets for turbos

[Serious]

those s4's are fast dont worry about it.

[mmart6545]

Twin turbo'd version. Maybe exhaust. From a dig, up to about 70 mph and I didn't pull at all! Granted, I only have 800 miles on my car and don't shift above 6500 RPM's, but I thought I was going to walk him pretty easily. I know with a chip, intake and exhaust they should have a lot more power than me, but it just made me want to spend more money on my car (AA supercharger??)!

Chipped b5 S4s are neck and neck with e46 m3s.

[snafu]

Twin turbo'd version. Maybe exhaust. From a dig, up to about 70 mph and I didn't pull at all! Granted, I only have 800 miles on my car and don't shift above 6500 RPM's, but I thought I was going to walk him pretty easily. I know with a chip, intake and exhaust they should have a lot more power than me, but it just made me want to spend more money on my car (AA supercharger??)!

Did you redline your car or did you shift at 6500 rpms? I can't understand what you are saying here. I know you are in the break-in period (btw it is 5500 rpms not 6500 rpms), but there is alot more power to be had near 8k redline which could have helped.

[mmart6545]

Did you redline your car or did you shift at 6500 rpms? I can't understand what you are saying here. I know you are in the break-in period (btw it is 5500 rpms not 6500 rpms), but there is alot more power to be had near 8k redline which could have helped.

Yeah, he missed the fat of the power curve.

[carcrazed4life]

With an 05 M3 Comp. Package... It would be a nice car to start with on that AA S/C. However, I've heard more buz about the ESS using a real Vortech and not touching internals... Just have AA tune it :D

Seriously, a little work on an S4 can get you into the 350hp easy...

[Effervescent]

Naughty e46 owner. Break that thing in first.

-Eff

[Brian@POG]

Twin turbo'd version. Maybe exhaust. From a dig, up to about 70 mph and I didn't pull at all! Granted, I only have 800 miles on my car and don't shift above 6500 RPM's, but I thought I was going to walk him pretty easily. I know with a chip, intake and exhaust they should have a lot more power than me, but it just made me want to spend more money on my car (AA supercharger??)!

If you want any chance of taking down an s4, you need to speak to us. The only m3's that have been able to take me down (my s4) have been our builds, plain and simple.

Brian

[maxse01]

when i had my dinan 330ci 5 speed (intake, chip throttle body and exhaust) i raced my buddy with his 2001.5 S4 Avant with twin 2 cat back 6 speed. we went from a roll 10mph to 80mph and i had him by about 1 cl. But when we went on the highway from 70-110 he would pull on me about 2 cl's. :confused

I am looking forward to trying a Giac S4. Just need to find one. :D

[rmani]

those turbo s4s can be made to be very fast with increased boost so don't feel bad. Just hope he does go for larger turbos you'll be left in the dust.

[JClark]

My buddy's stage 2 B5 S4 owns E46 M3s.

[Roffle Waffle]

pics of your car below

[crowderd]

I am looking forward to trying a Giac S4. Just need to find one. :D


I am looking forward to trying a 2005 M3 ZCP. Just need to find one. :D

[snafu]

My buddy's stage 2 B5 S4 owns E46 M3s.

Throw enough mods on any car (including your 10 year old M3) and it can own an e46 m3. Stock for stock...the M3 crushes the fancy VW.

[crowderd]

Throw enough mods on any car (including your 10 year old M3) and it can own an e46 m3. Stock for stock...the M3 crushes the fancy VW.


LOL

[mmart6545]

Throw enough mods on any car (including your 10 year old M3) and it can own an e46 m3. Stock for stock...the M3 crushes the fancy VW.

Stock for stock? We can compare apples and apples if youd like. Stock B6 S4 vs. E46 M3 = Drivers race. Pretty BMW cant edge out the fancy VW, sorry.

[mtfour]

Stock for stock? We can compare apples and apples if youd like. Stock B6 S4 vs. E46 M3 = Drivers race. Pretty BMW cant edge out the fancy VW, sorry.

:werd:

[mitchelrl]

All Audi owners should have AAA. They'll need it.

[maxse01]

I am looking forward to trying a 2005 M3 ZCP. Just need to find one. :D


let's do it!! :evil2

[mmart6545]

All Audi owners should have AAA. They'll need it.

I cant say I've never used roadside :help , but plenty of my BMW friends have been stranded!

[rmani]

Stock for stock? We can compare apples and apples if youd like. Stock B6 S4 vs. E46 M3 = Drivers race. Pretty BMW cant edge out the fancy VW, sorry.

Seriously WTF on the flip side you can compare an e36 m3 to a B6 S4 and the BMW will get demolished. S4s are great cars it's a pity they don't get more respect from the BMW crowd.

[natureboyyy]

Stock for stock? We can compare apples and apples if youd like. Stock B6 S4 vs. E46 M3 = Drivers race. Pretty BMW cant edge out the fancy VW, sorry.

sorry,... but you're wrong. stock for stock, given equal drivers, the M3 is faster than the B6 S4, straight line. to 60, and in the quarter mile.

where did you get this info from? the audi weighs approx. 400 pounds more than the bmw.

[rmani]

you're talking about fractions of a second which on the street = driver's race. Yes on paper the e46 M3 is a hair quicker, but the s4 has a more hp, displacement, and cylinders on the M3. One small mistake is all it takes for either car to win.

[natureboyyy]

i love the audi. i test drove the S4, and it was a sick car. when the RS4 goes on sale, i'm very interested if its priced right. the fact is, the E46 M3 is a faster car than the B6 S4, stock for stock.
i want my drive way to look like this:

[mmart6545]

i love the audi. i test drove the S4, and it was a sick car. when the RS4 goes on sale, i'm very interested if its priced right. the fact is, the E46 M3 is a faster car than the B6 S4, stock for stock.
i want my drive way to look like this:

Heh...Stage 3 A4 + M3 ZCP here.

[natureboyyy]

Heh...Stage 3 A4 + M3 ZCP here.

thats cool. how you liking the competition package? love the zcp wheels. :buttrock

[natureboyyy]

you're talking about fractions of a second which on the street = driver's race. Yes on paper the e46 M3 is a hair quicker, but the s4 has a more hp, displacement, and cylinders on the M3. One small mistake is all it takes for either car to win.

we don't need to get into a pis$in contest here. you're right that these cars are very close, and a driver mistake will cost either driver the race. i played around with one before , from a highway roll,(which takes most driver error out of the equation) and walked away from him. so thats my experience.
the audi does have more hp, displacement, and cylinders. but a couple factors hurt the S4 when it come to straight line acceleration. the S4 is a pretty heavy car at around 3,900lbs. 400+ lbs make a big difference in acceleration. the audi also loses some power to the pavement due to the paracitic drag of the AWD driveline.
again, much respect to audis, my buddy has a stage 2 B5 S4 and he walked me. :(

[mmart6545]

thats cool. how you liking the competition package? love the zcp wheels. :buttrock

The Bimmer is my brothers. I drive it...not as much as I should.

[mtfour]

Seriously WTF on the flip side you can compare an e36 m3 to a B6 S4 and the BMW will get demolished. S4s are great cars it's a pity they don't get more respect from the BMW crowd.

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that any car of equal price gets respect from the BMW crowd.

[333inlinesix]

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that any car of equal price gets respect from the BMW crowd.

Not true...There are SOME bimmer owners that think they are Gods gift to the automotive world, but then there are the knowledgeable ones, who know exactly what their competition is, and not to underestimate them...ever.

[91M5]

My experience on roadcourses is that the E46 M3 is faster than the B6. The B6 has great grunt getting out of the corners but even in my E34 M5 it would stop pulling at speeds past 70mph or so. My car has less torque but maybe only 10hp less and weighs 3800lbs so it is kind of what I expected.

[GG///M3]

both are great cars, but e30 s50 owns all :stickoutt ..

[snafu]

Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that any car of equal price gets respect from the BMW crowd.

I totally respect the Audi, particularly the S4 (esp. the last gen tt). However, I do think the M3 is much more of an enthusiast car...stats and timeslips aside, the BMW drives better imo. I don't respect the fact that Audi refuses to make an S4 coupe or that VW AG won't make a specific engine for their halo car anymore. Instead, they engineered the engine for the new S4 and VW Toureg simultaniously.

[maxse01]

I totally respect the Audi, particularly the S4 (esp. the last gen tt). However, I do think the M3 is much more of an enthusiast car...stats and timeslips aside, the BMW drives better imo.


Agreed. I have driven the B5 S4 and loved it. My only problem is feel..... It's the same problem i have with Merc's...they do not have the feel of a BMW. I love and respect both car companies, but i think it's that sensation that BMW's give that makes people love them so much.

Don't get me wrong, i would love an S4 as much as i love my M3. I just prefer the BMW. :D

[=BA=]

From what I've seen on the euro playgrounds the E46 M3 euro version (343 HP) has maybe 2 CL's on the B6 S4, mainly due to the weight advantage, and possible higher driveline losses.

B5 2.7TT vs E36 with S50B30 or S50B32 is a definite win for the E36, HP difference is just too big. But then again The S4 has tremendous modding potential.

Eary statements of Audi indicate that the new 425 HP RS4 only has a noselenght on the E46 M3. (Audi states 16,6 for 0-200, while the E46's have been clocked at 16.7~17.0)

But that's on the other side of the pond. ;)

[madmguy]

Throw enough mods on any car (including your 10 year old M3) and it can own an e46 m3. Stock for stock...the M3 crushes the fancy VW.
yeah, stock for stock even e36 M3s destroy the b5... but with the chip, like the one in my sig, and an exhaust they are not to be messed with... the M5 is more of a thrill to race against at that point!!

[VandyS4]

yeah, stock for stock even e36 M3s destroy the b5... but with the chip, like the one in my sig, and an exhaust they are not to be messed with... the M5 is more of a thrill to race against at that point!!

In a straight line E36 M3s do not destroy B5 S4s by any means whatsoever. They're are a bit faster on the highway, that's all.

[Serious]

is there such thing as a stock b5 s4 anymore?

[cosmom3]

If you want any chance of taking down an s4, you need to speak to us. The only m3's that have been able to take me down (my s4) have been our builds, plain and simple.

Brian


Haha what a personal plug!

[rmani]

In a straight line E36 M3s do not destroy B5 S4s by any means whatsoever. They're are a bit faster on the highway, that's all.


I believe he's backing up BA's claim which is in regard to Euro E36s (noth 3L and 3.2L).

[///M Speed]

Stock for stock? We can compare apples and apples if youd like. Stock B6 S4 vs. E46 M3 = Drivers race. Pretty BMW cant edge out the fancy VW, sorry.


you're talking about fractions of a second which on the street = driver's race. Yes on paper the e46 M3 is a hair quicker, but the s4 has a more hp, displacement, and cylinders on the M3. One small mistake is all it takes for either car to win.

That does not sound like apples to apples to me (more displacement and 2 more cylinders). ;)

I love the Audi’s. I wish I could have both, but had to choose one and the Bimmer won out. Any given day either one could loose to the other and vise-versa. Just like the both quotes above states; it’s a drivers race….

[HellBilly]

i love M3's and i love S4's

i just wish there was a RWD Coupe S4 :(

[mmart6545]

That does not sound like apples to apples to me (more displacement and 2 more cylinders). ;)

I love the Audi’s. I wish I could have both, but had to choose one and the Bimmer won out. Any given day either one could loose to the other and vise-versa. Just like the both quotes above states; it’s a drivers race….

Dude...there is no better comparison then an E46 M3 and B6 S4.

[rmani]

Dude...there is no better comparison then an E46 M3 and B6 S4.

Agreed. Look at the Porsche GT3 and Ferrari Stradale. Direct competitors with similar performance numbers but the ferrari his more displacement, cylinders, and hp. Both using different means to compete for the same customers.

[///M Speed]

Dude...there is no better comparison then an E46 M3 and B6 S4.

True, I don't disagree there. I was just stating for an apples to apples comparison the drivetrain does not match up is all I am saying. Performance wise they are perfect matches.

[crowderd]

BMW M3 :

Engine : 3.2 (inline 6)
Power : 343hp (Euro)
0-60mph : 4.8s
0-62mph : 5.2s
Top speed : 155mph (limited)
1/4 mile : 12.8s - 13.5s

BMW M3 CSL :

Engine : 3.2 (inline 6)
Power : 360hp (Euro)
0-60mph : 4.5s
0-62mph : 4.9s
Top speed : 155mph (limited)
1/4 mile : 12.**s

AUDI S4 :

Engine : 4.2 (V8)
Power : 344hp (Euro)
0-60mph : 5.2s
0-62mph : 5.6s
Top speed : 155mph (limited)
1/4 mile : 13.6s - 13.8s


it is inevitable...

in the end, someone has to magazine race....

[snafu]

it is inevitable...

in the end, someone has to magazine race....

Specs get thrown out the window in a street race. However, the near 1/2 sec. to 60 and near full second in the 1/4 stats can really show how the cars stack up. Those recorded numbers (by the manufactures) are showing a huge advantage to the BMW...with stock cars, you would really have to blow it to lose to an Audi. Unless you launched on gravel or ice. :)

[maxse01]

I have been hunting a B6 S4 for a while now and still not run into one.

Any takers in norther jersey? :evil2

[BIMMERBOYZ]

I am the guy who always says Turbo vs N/A is not equal race the new N/A rs4 is still slower than the M3 and it has a 420hp v8 wow bigger engine and still falls slightly short of the M3. That is a good comparison O wait no it's not more cylinders bigger engine and still loses to the M3 slightly. drivers race yes but you audi/vw lovers wait until the M3 gets the v8 from the e39 m5 with improvements say ba bye. RS4 72,000 wow I will buy the M5 with the v10 and beat the audi all day any day for that price. The new rs4 still loses to the M3 0-60 to bad so sad go to the audi?vw website if you expect any respect from the BMW forums why go to this website. if so in love with audi/vw? :rolleyes You can say I am biased all you want I could care less but until any car maker matches what BMW has done. In the past and future without a turbo/supercharger. Then audi/vw/mercedes will get my repsect. But until then BMW are superior to all other carmakers out there in what they do any body else is inferior. :alright

[onefast944turbo]

Ok
All you guys that own or have owned an S4. Have you ever had a problem with it? how many miles are on the odo? what problems did you incounter? Cost of owning the vehicle? There is one for sale by me and i've heard stories about audi and have worked on plenty.. but you cant beat the price for what car your getting.. I mean for under 20k you can get an AWD/ sort of lux car... there is no car that can compare to the value of a nice used s4...Unless you have problem after problem with the car...

[crowderd]

Ok
All you guys that own or have owned an S4. Have you ever had a problem with it? how many miles are on the odo? what problems did you incounter? Cost of owning the vehicle? There is one for sale by me and i've heard stories about audi and have worked on plenty.. but you cant beat the price for what car your getting.. I mean for under 20k you can get an AWD/ sort of lux car... there is no car that can compare to the value of a nice used s4...Unless you have problem after problem with the car...


12,000 miles

1 GIAC X-Chip

3 Sets of blown turbos
2 sets of blow-off valves (! set of stock 1 set of Bailey)

I currently own an allroad as my dog car. It has the 2.7TT in it and I have only had minor problems durring its 64,000 miles

[crowderd]

I am the guy who always says Turbo vs N/A is not equal race the new N/A rs4 is still slower than the M3 and it has a 420hp v8 wow bigger engine and still falls slightly short of the M3. That is a good comparison O wait no it's not more cylinders bigger engine and still loses to the M3 slightly. drivers race yes but you audi/vw lovers wait until the M3 gets the v8 from the e39 m5 with improvements say ba bye. RS4 72,000 wow I will buy the M5 with the v10 and beat the audi all day any day for that price. The new rs4 still loses to the M3 0-60 to bad so sad go to the audi?vw website if you expect any respect from the BMW forums why go to this website. if so in love with audi/vw? :rolleyes You can say I am biased all you want I could care less but until any car maker matches what BMW has done. In the past and future without a turbo/supercharger. Then audi/vw/mercedes will get my repsect. But until then BMW are superior to all other carmakers out there in what they do any body else is inferior. :alright

Zealot.

Add 20K to that price for the new M5 (I know, I'm on the list, but I'm getting the C6 Z06 instead =) )

[ashirji]

I own an e46 M3 and an e36 M3 I have owned a Stage 2+ B5 S4. The B5 has torque- massive torque everywhere on the rev range. The E46 is about as quick in a straight line, but you need to drive it like you stole it. Redline shifts are the order of the day in order to obtain serious thrust. Granted my E46 is a stock SMG version, but these are my experiences with my cars. I appreciate them all for what they are. The Audi was a powerful executive express. The E46 M3 is a beautiful car with a screaming engine note and a smart transmission, and the E36 equipped like mine- Konis, injectors, exhaust, software, HFM, etc. is a sports car with a back seat. All are wonderful cars that deserve respect. Just my .02

[onefast944turbo]

12,000 miles

1 GIAC X-Chip

3 Sets of blown turbos
2 sets of blow-off valves (! set of stock 1 set of Bailey)

I currently own an allroad as my dog car. It has the 2.7TT in it and I have only had minor problems durring its 64,000 miles


I'm sorry but you have to be kidding me... 6 TURBO"S is this normal? i hope not.. Has anyone else have problems to this extent? I cant see how a car company stays in business if they produce crap like that...

[ashirji]

I had my Stage2+ B5 for 54000 miles. It had the factory turbos in it the entire time. The car is now with it's new owner, and has over 70000 miles- still on the stock turbos. A couple of things I did religiously- use Mobil 1 every 4K. Drive like a grandmother untill the engine oil temp comes up to the 1/4 mark (there is a reason these cars come with an oil temp gauge as well as a water temp gauge). Cool the turbos after a sprited run using the turbo timer I installed. I am sure at some point the turbos will blow- it is a fact of life when chipping the b5 S4. But by following these precautions, you can certainly extend their life.

[crowderd]

I had my Stage2+ B5 for 54000 miles. It had the factory turbos in it the entire time. The car is now with it's new owner, and has over 70000 miles- still on the stock turbos. A couple of things I did religiously- use Mobil 1 every 4K. Drive like a grandmother untill the engine oil temp comes up to the 1/4 mark (there is a reason these cars come with an oil temp gauge as well as a water temp gauge). Cool the turbos after a sprited run using the turbo timer I installed. I am sure at some point the turbos will blow- it is a fact of life when chipping the b5 S4. But by following these precautions, you can certainly extend their life.

Don't assume improper use.

I took outstanding care of that car and its engine, it just sucked. I've had 4 other Audi's without that problem (notice I included my allroad example that has had no issues).

[ashirji]

I diid not mean to imply improper use. I was simply relaying my experiences. I see you had a GIAC chip- the "X " version? The reason I ask, is because the GIAC software was a bit more aggressive than the APR I had on my car. The GIAC specified higher boost and more timing than APR and as a result produced more power, but at some expense in durability. Then again you could have just had a lemon.

[crowderd]

I diid not mean to imply improper use. I was simply relaying my experiences. I see you had a GIAC chip- the "X " version? The reason I ask, is because the GIAC software was a bit more aggressive than the APR I had on my car. The GIAC specified higher boost and more timing than APR and as a result produced more power, but at some expense in durability. Then again you could have just had a lemon.

You are 100% correct it boosted to about 1.3 bar which was more than MTM or APR (and for good reason) but I think the engine had a defect other than the turbo’s that was merely exploited by chipping it. The X-Chip was big with the modded b5's on AudiWorld and I am the only one that went through Turbo’s like socks. Todd at AWE agreed with this assessment (not that that really means anything)

[VandyS4]

I'm sorry but you have to be kidding me... 6 TURBO"S is this normal? i hope not.. Has anyone else have problems to this extent? I cant see how a car company stays in business if they produce crap like that...

crowderd's experiences are not normal. Many go 50,000+ miles with chips and no problem. If you're really worried about reliability, though, go with APR rather than GIAC for the chip. If you're REALLY worried, go with neuspeed, which is much less aggressive than other chips.

As for me...while I've owned the car I've gotten the turbos and tranny replaced, both under warranty. Turbos were howling (near death), and 2nd/3rd gear had, somehow, started grinding. Could've just replaced the synchros, but the dealer offered to just swap in a new tranny.

Definitely buy an extended warranty. FWIW, the problems I had (turbos, tranny) are the notorious weakpoints of the car.

If you're worried about maint. costs, don't buy a B5 S4. If you really want the S, though you can go right to RSK04 turbos and get a beefed up tranny. K04 turbos are MUCH more reliable. Nobody on AW has seen a K04 in an S4 die from anything other than FOD.

If you don't like that route, buy an extended warranty and keep the car stock. You'll be A-ok.

[ashirji]

I also think having downpipes with no cats also allows the turbos to remain cooler than they would have been if running the stock downpipes with the precats right next to the turbos. Altitude also plays a part as a turbo will have to spin faster to maintain a given boost pressure at higher altitude than at sea level due to air density. It sounds like the AW forum has come here for a visit ;)

[VandyS4]

It sounds like the AW forum has come here for a visit ;)

Psh. Been here longer than you have ;)

[BIMMERBOYZ]

wow a whole six months longer wooooopdy due what does it all mean at least he has two BMW'S suprisingly enough on a BIMMER forum.

[///M Speed]

Zealot.

Add 20K to that price for the new M5 (I know, I'm on the list, but I'm getting the C6 Z06 instead =) )

The C6 Sure does give you a lot of bang for the buck. The new M5 with that V10 is going to be awesome, but the C6 performs very well and is a lot cheaper. If I had the money I would definitely go with the M5 though as I am sure many of you would….


Altitude also plays a part as a turbo will have to spin faster to maintain a given boost pressure at higher altitude than at sea level due to air density.

This is a factor that is frequently overlooked. Altitude and air temp can make a huge difference….

[bradb1us]

Wow guys! I should have checked back on this thread sooner.

I shifted before 6500 RPM's and my traction control kicked on when I shifted into second. I've driven an S4 at the track and run low 14's with kick ass 60' foots. I just thought the M3 should be quite a bit faster unless the S4 is modified.

[VandyS4]

wow a whole six months longer wooooopdy due what does it all mean at least he has two BMW'S suprisingly enough on a BIMMER forum.

Wow. You need to calm down. I was just kidding around, stop making an e-ass out of yourself =P And don't think for a second that me having an Audi on a bimmer forum has anything to do with anything.

My message was meant to relate the fact that AW has a small, but active, Bf.c relations department :D

[2XM3]

Wow guys! I should have checked back on this thread sooner.

I shifted before 6500 RPM's and my traction control kicked on when I shifted into second. I've driven an S4 at the track and run low 14's with kick ass 60' foots. I just thought the M3 should be quite a bit faster unless the S4 is modified.

Any time you race, traction off,sport mode on,shift at redline. I love my e46 but lets face it the car is really not that fast anymore, and its not a drag racer. My advice? Change the rear end gears if you like the stoplight stuff.

[bradb1us]

Any time you race, traction off,sport mode on,shift at redline. I love my e46 but lets face it the car is really not that fast anymore, and its not a drag racer. My advice? Change the rear end gears if you like the stoplight stuff.


Thanks for the advice--and sweet car!! I'm not really into the drag racing scene, or else I would've gotten an AWD car. Also, I didn't shift at redline because I'm still breaking the car in. I just passed 1,000 miles and Friday I take it in for the 1200 mile "cleaning".

[STEVE36]

I agree with whoever said the BMW guys seem to feel elite. I LOVE Audis and almost bought a b5 1.8t (due to the fact that it's easily mod-able). You can't argue with an S4 either.

[91M5]

I agree I think the B6 is great looking car and you can get great used deals. I am somewhat concerned about quality control but I guess the jury is still out on the newer ones.

[mmart6545]

I agree I think the B6 is great looking car and you can get great used deals. I am somewhat concerned about quality control but I guess the jury is still out on the newer ones.

Now would be the time to get deals on new b6s. The new b7s are arriving in dealers now.

[onutsguy]

I grabbed an 2005 S4 for my wife at Christmas. Incredible car. I have absolutely ass-hammered my buddy in his E46 M3 on more than a few occasions. It keeps him humble since he has my number when I'm in my 540. :evil2 On the track, the S4 and M3 are almost identicle. One has an advantage here, the other has an advantage there.
I LOVE my 540 / 6, but there's really something to this S4. Fun to drive and fabulous interior. I wish the exterior had a little more attitude....
Props to Audi. Oh yea, throw a set of Blizzak's on and you'll have the best handling, fastest accelerating winter weather car ever produced ..... :redspot It's fun handing the big 4X4's their azz.....

( My .02 )

Peace.
Scott

[Max///M3]

I have absolutely ass-hammered my buddy in his E46 M3 on more than a few occasions.

Interesting.

[doccommando]

I have a 2000 S4 with 59k miles that has been chipped for at least 30k of those. It's still on the first set of turbos. The S4, however, has been a pain to maintain. All sorts of little things going wrong, which is why I'm looking at an E46 330i w/ ZHP to replace it. The 4 year maintenence/warranty is just what I need.

[maxse01]

I grabbed an 2005 S4 for my wife at Christmas. Incredible car. I have absolutely ass-hammered my buddy in his E46 M3 on more than a few occasions.


Your buddy know how to drive his car? :confused

[mmart6545]

Your buddy know how to drive his car? :confused

I love it how most of the bimmer guys cant believe that an S4 has a good chance of taking out an E46 M3.

[maxse01]

I love it how most of the bimmer guys cant believe that an S4 has a good chance of taking out an E46 M3.


I can beleive it....as it's been established it's a drivers race. He says his buddy got "his ass hammered" which indicates he lost pretty badly...which everyone knows is not possible given equal drivers.

FACT#1
Equal drivers, and by the specs the E46 is just faster.

[doccommando]

Stock vs. stock the M3 is faster. This has been shown in multiple third party sources again and again. I have never heard of any 3rd party magazine or show come out with the M3 slower in a straight line. The B6 S4, however, did perform better on Top Gear's track.

[snafu]

I love it how most of the bimmer guys cant believe that an S4 has a good chance of taking out an E46 M3.

The S4 does have a good chance, but the E46 M3 has the advantage plain and simple.

[crusso4]

Throw enough mods on any car (including your 10 year old M3) and it can own an e46 m3. Stock for stock...the M3 crushes the fancy VW.

You apparently don't go to the track a lot because I have seen the B6 S4 put up better lap times than the e46 M3 multiple times. Even Top Gear did a comparison and the B6 S4 put up a better lap time by a second or two. So the M3 isn't doing any crushing.

Oh and don't get pissed because LSB doesn't look as good as this...

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v250/crusso4/s4.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com" border="3">

:D

[snafu]

You apparently don't go to the track a lot because I have seen the B6 S4 put up better lap times than the e46 M3 multiple times. Even Top Gear did a comparison and the B6 S4 put up a better lap time by a second or two. So the M3 isn't doing any crushing.

Oh and don't get pissed because LSB doesn't look as good as this...

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v250/crusso4/s4.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com" border="3">

:D

On the street anything can happen, the S4 could beat the M3 on any given day (same situation with a track). The E46 M3 puts up better numbers than the S4, although those facts may confuse you. This is the M3s race to lose, not the VW...ummm, I mean Audi.

As far as LSB....you know it owns the souped up Passat in your pic or you wouldn't have mentioned it. :)

[GG///M3]

You apparently don't go to the track a lot because I have seen the B6 S4 put up better lap times than the e46 M3 multiple times. Even Top Gear did a comparison and the B6 S4 put up a better lap time by a second or two. So the M3 isn't doing any crushing.

Oh and don't get pissed because LSB doesn't look as good as this...

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v250/crusso4/s4.jpg" alt="Image hosted by Photobucket.com" border="3">

:D

I think when they did that track run it was in the wet, but hey the e46 ptg m3's killed the rs6's in the rain a few season's ago from what i rember 2 race's in row. :stickoutt

[ronin009]

I am the guy who always says Turbo vs N/A is not equal race the new N/A rs4 is still slower than the M3 and it has a 420hp v8 wow bigger engine and still falls slightly short of the M3. That is a good comparison O wait no it's not more cylinders bigger engine and still loses to the M3 slightly. drivers race yes but you audi/vw lovers wait until the M3 gets the v8 from the e39 m5 with improvements say ba bye. RS4 72,000 wow I will buy the M5 with the v10 and beat the audi all day any day for that price. The new rs4 still loses to the M3 0-60 to bad so sad go to the audi?vw website if you expect any respect from the BMW forums why go to this website. if so in love with audi/vw? :rolleyes You can say I am biased all you want I could care less but until any car maker matches what BMW has done. In the past and future without a turbo/supercharger. Then audi/vw/mercedes will get my repsect. But until then BMW are superior to all other carmakers out there in what they do any body else is inferior. :alright

How can you say the new RS4 is slower than the M3, when all of the numbers for the RS4's are just estimates as they have not been tested yet. But even those estimates are faster than any numbers I have seen for the M3. I think they are trying to set something up to comepete with the E90 M3 (400hp V8) eventhough I dont think it will...

[bradb1us]

Actually, I've already ran a B6 S4 (2004) and killed it by a couple car lengths (at least) to 100 mph. The B5 S4 (2001) chipped is a much faster car. I couldn't believe how fast it was.

I'll see if I can get my buddy to video tape a race between his new S4 and my M3. He doesn't like the fact that he loses to me, but I don't like the fact he can take more than one person comfortably in his car and still haul some serious ass!

[GG///M3]

rwd owns awd ;)

[bradb1us]

How can you say the new RS4 is slower than the M3, when all of the numbers for the RS4's are just estimates as they have not been tested yet. But even those estimates are faster than any numbers I have seen for the M3. I think they are trying to set something up to comepete with the E90 M3 (400hp V8) eventhough I dont think it will...


I agree. Everything I've read about the RS4 suggests it'll kill the current E46 M3. If it's not outrageously priced, I might consider it for my next car.

[shmoo]

rwd owns awd ;)


Not when it starts raining :mad I couldn't even keep up with a 1.8T A4 in the corners when it's raininng

[Max///M3]

Not when it starts raining :mad I couldn't even keep up with a 1.8T A4 in the corners when it's raininng

You need more downforce ;)

[snafu]

:lol good points

Hey, atleast Audi has 4 doors and an automatic as an option...just as any hard core enthusiast would want it.

[ronin009]

I agree. Everything I've read about the RS4 suggests it'll kill the current E46 M3. If it's not outrageously priced, I might consider it for my next car.

I have heard that the RS4 will be in the $70,000 range...

[madmguy]

I could say the same thing.
Except I always saw the M3 putting up better lap times.
And let's not forget the straight line comparison (yes in some cases not only the twisties matter :) ), since you like to refer to Top Gear so much, who won that one ?
The M3.

And now we're not even talking about the CSL.
Have you ever seen a CSL on a track ?
I have, that thing was running with AND passing GT3's.

The truth of the matter is, that everyone has their own opinion.
The AUDI enthusiasts, will always claim the S4 to be the better car.
And of course the same is true when you look at BMW enthusiasts and their opinion about the M3.

Still, I tend to look at the facts.
Most of the time, they tell us that the M3 is the better sports car.
But please, don't take my word for it, just look at the history of all M3's ever produced. All of them were at the top of their class.
Even after +5 years, other car brands still haven't been able to outgun the M3 with a car in the same class.
Your S4 proves that, V8, turbocharged, ... to outgun a 3.2 I6 NA engine from BMW. The Mercedes C32 AMG didn't make it, same story with the C55 AMG.
And no, I'm not trying to raise a debate here about car brands and their technology, but like I said, facts are facts.
Hundreds of car magazines have tested both cars and I can guarantee you that most of them always ruled in favour of the Bavarian.
Does that mean the M3 is the "ultimate" car?
Hell no.
But it does mean something.

The best thing to do is accept the fact that different people have different tastes.
Trying to convince a BMW forum that the S4 is better than the M3 is like urinating facing the wind.

a few modest corrections, I think... first the M3 beat the B6 S4 in the straight-line, then got beat around the track by nearly a second... also if you are referring to the Nurburg (whatever it's called) ring that was a GTR not the CSL, although maybe you are referring to something else, don't get pissed...

[mmart6545]

I agree. Everything I've read about the RS4 suggests it'll kill the current E46 M3. If it's not outrageously priced, I might consider it for my next car.

You are right, his claims are crazy. The new rs4 was built to play with the 400hp? v8 m3. It'll absolutely spank the 333hp version....just like the B5 Rs4 will.

[crusso4]

I could say the same thing.
Except I always saw the M3 putting up better lap times.
And let's not forget the straight line comparison (yes in some cases not only the twisties matter :) ), since you like to refer to Top Gear so much, who won that one ?
The M3.

And now we're not even talking about the CSL.
Have you ever seen a CSL on a track ?
I have, that thing was running with AND passing GT3's.

The truth of the matter is, that everyone has their own opinion.
The AUDI enthusiasts, will always claim the S4 to be the better car.
And of course the same is true when you look at BMW enthusiasts and their opinion about the M3.

Still, I tend to look at the facts.
Most of the time, they tell us that the M3 is the better sports car.
But please, don't take my word for it, just look at the history of all M3's ever produced. All of them were at the top of their class.
Even after +5 years, other car brands still haven't been able to outgun the M3 with a car in the same class.
Your S4 proves that, V8, turbocharged, ... to outgun a 3.2 I6 NA engine from BMW. The Mercedes C32 AMG didn't make it, same story with the C55 AMG.
And no, I'm not trying to raise a debate here about car brands and their technology, but like I said, facts are facts.
Hundreds of car magazines have tested both cars and I can guarantee you that most of them always ruled in favour of the Bavarian.
Does that mean the M3 is the "ultimate" car?
Hell no.
But it does mean something.

The best thing to do is accept the fact that different people have different tastes.
Trying to convince a BMW forum that the S4 is better than the M3 is like urinating facing the wind.

I never said the Audi was a better car, I was simply stating that the S4 is capable of putting up better lap times. The comment about Audi enthusiats preferring Audi's is also a horrible comment ot make because I have previously owned 2 E36 M3's and will be soon purchasing an E46. I am on a BMW forum afterall. Also, how can you compare the CSL to the B6 S4, if you wanna compare the CSL to something then compare it to the RS4. Thats like comparing an S4 to a 3er.

[252kw]

Hm - I should stop thinking everytime I read about an E46 M3 on this forum that I should relate it to my car. But Euro Spec > Us Spec. Comparisions arent worth it. Ill just watch.. :devillook

[natotx]

Hm - I should stop thinking everytime I read about an E46 M3 on this forum that I should relate it to my car. But Euro Spec > Us Spec. Comparisions arent worth it. Ill just watch.. :devillook

And how is that > 4 dollars (USD) per gallon premium gas price treating you? :devillook

[AtlanticVortex]

I really don't like the B5 S4. I owned a B5 A4 1.8T and it has been by far the best car I have ever owned (even better than the M3, my opinion). The S4 is a mess; it is heavy and is a maintenance hog. Go to Audiworld.com and you can find a good number on the price to replace the turbos, $5000!!! The Audi S4 B5 cannot handle like an E36 or E46 for that matter (the B5 is not the one in the Top Gear video). The chipped B5 is a beast in a line, but when you want a well-rounded car I would look for another car.
To clear things up, here are some pics and info:

B5 S4 (2001-2002)
http://www.mit.edu/~jfc/S4-2.jpg

B6 S4
http://www.caflisch.ch/images/audi/AUDI%20S4%20AVANT%2013.jpg

B7 S4
http://www.audiusa.com/common/images/2005_ext_gallery5_s4sedan_lg.jpg

Chipped B5 S4 numbers at the flywheel (APR)
http://www.goapr.com/Audi/images/dyno_s4_stage_i.gif
On 93 octane: 318hp/382lb-ft

[mmart6545]

I really don't like the B5 S4. I owned a B5 A4 1.8T and it has been by far the best car I have ever owned (even better than the M3, my opinion). The S4 is a mess; it is heavy and is a maintenance hog. Go to Audiworld.com and you can find a good number on the price to replace the turbos, $5000!!! The Audi S4 B5 cannot handle like an E36 or E46 for that matter (the B5 is not the one in the Top Gear video). The chipped B5 is a beast in a line, but when you want a well-rounded car I would look for another car.
To clear things up, here are some pics and info:


hahaha...you have no idea what you are talking about, do you? The S4/A4's are very well rounded cars, just like the 3 series.

[252kw]

And how is that > 4 dollars (USD) per gallon premium gas price treating you? :devillook

$4 PER GALLON? Mate I think you got the wrong country lol. Plus whats that got in reference to my post. Euro > Us Spec. More Power, Better Brakes !

[AtlanticVortex]

hahaha...you have no idea what you are talking about, do you? The S4/A4's are very well rounded cars, just like the 3 series.LOL,can you read? I said I owned an A4 and loved it, the S4 has a very expensive problem. For the turbo replacement issue, I don't find the B5 S4 as well rounded as the A4 or 3 series...