good deal or not? $8999 74 Tii w/rebuiltengine 38k ago.

[dubaholic]

any help would be great, I saw it from the street, looked pretty decent, am probly going to go look at it tomorrow. any suggestions on things to grill the guy about?

[74tii]

for that kind of cash I would expect that car to be really cherry. Like zero rust anywhere, good exhaust, good .. well everything.

[Ohtwo]

Dont just look at the body for rust. Look inside and under the car.

[mikeyz325]

I got this for $5200, which is pretty high for an 02, but it is in very good shape and not 'fixer-upper'. Its not a Tii, but probably as fast as a stock one at least.

http://northstarbmw.org/mkp/742002-03P4040107.jpg
http://northstarbmw.org/mkp/742002-02P005.jpg
http://northstarbmw.org/mkp/742002-02P001.jpg
http://northstarbmw.org/mkp/742002-02P006.jpg
http://northstarbmw.org/mkp/742002-03P4040111.jpg
http://northstarbmw.org/mkp/742002-03P4040110.jpg

[brave73tii]

for that price it should be pretty much perfect. is there documentation on the work done. $10,000 is close to the ceiling for the tii as far as price goes, and that would be for a round tail light model that is ALL original. the market seems a bit overinflated for the tii right now. figure about $4,000 for a rebuild (tii may be a bit higher)
regards, jeff

[kpolito99]

One thing to consider is the purpose of this vehicle and whether or not the performance of the factory car will be sufficient for your needs. I have read and been told by experienced technicians that it is difficult to enhance or modify the tii injection. It is far easier to make changes to to carbs to accomodate a higher performance camshaft and exhaust than it is to significantly improve the fuel delivery with old mechanical fuel injection.

[brave73tii]

One thing to consider is the purpose of this vehicle and whether or not the performance of the factory car will be sufficient for your needs. I have read and been told by experienced technicians that it is difficult to enhance or modify the tii injection. It is far easier to make changes to to carbs to accomodate a higher performance camshaft and exhaust than it is to significantly improve the fuel delivery with old mechanical fuel injection.
this is true. do want to modify it or have it as an investment or piece of history. there is really very little if any room for hp increase in the tii w/out modifying the stock tii intection...bummer. however, the tii's power is not bad and is comparable to a stock 02 with sidedrafts. also, you get the beefier suspension and brakes but a regular 02 can be easily upgraded to tii specs. just some things to think about.

regards, jeff

[74tii]

you can have your KF altered for more HP

wes ingram http://www.wesingram.com/

is known for that. A buddy of mine has some CnC machines -- you could cut your own cone and rebuild the kugelfischer -- it has a cam you could screw with. Would be a real pain in the ass, but interesting

I've read that you can easily add hotter cam and so on with a standard pump -- Mike MacCartney's 02 restoration guide he talks about a tii pushing 160 HP with standard pump.. I think. Don't have the book on me at the mo

Just did a 100 mile drive in my mostly stock tii and man it was great -- got a good tune finally and the car rips.

So I dono what it'd be like with 260 HP .. holy crap. You'd probably scrape my ass off the guard rails

but ya At a certain point you have to change the fuel injection -- but its not impossilbe to do so and the price is a bit more than carbs, but not completely insane type of money I think. Ingram has a HP pump for 785.00

How much are those kick ass dual carb setups -- with intake and everything? They that much less ? -- say going from stock 2002 to dual webber woopass. What does that upgrade cost? like $500?

[kpolito99]

Good info regarding the ability to enhance a tii. I have always looked for the miscellaneous goodies (trailing arms, brake booster, struts, etc) but steered away from the fuel injection becuase of it's perceived hp limitations.

I have been out of the side drafts for many years now, but if I were to revert back I have heard many good things about the Mikuni setup. I believe Cartech used Mikuni's with their turbo kit fopr the 02.

[Ohtwo]

One thing to consider is the purpose of this vehicle and whether or not the performance of the factory car will be sufficient for your needs. I have read and been told by experienced technicians that it is difficult to enhance or modify the tii injection. It is far easier to make changes to to carbs to accomodate a higher performance camshaft and exhaust than it is to significantly improve the fuel delivery with old mechanical fuel injection.

Yeah. If your going to park it in your garage, and wax it on sunny days, get a nice Tii. If you want a little hotrod to tinker with, and modify(and blast around), dont get a Tii. I think the biggest cam you can use on a Tii is a 284 without having some problems. Thats not really a big cam.

So:
Showpiece-Tii
Toy- "just" a 2002

[brave73tii]

you can have your KF altered for more HP

wes ingram http://www.wesingram.com/

is known for that. A buddy of mine has some CnC machines -- you could cut your own cone and rebuild the kugelfischer -- it has a cam you could screw with. Would be a real pain in the ass, but interesting

I've read that you can easily add hotter cam and so on with a standard pump -- Mike MacCartney's 02 restoration guide he talks about a tii pushing 160 HP with standard pump.. I think. Don't have the book on me at the mo

Just did a 100 mile drive in my mostly stock tii and man it was great -- got a good tune finally and the car rips.

So I dono what it'd be like with 260 HP .. holy crap. You'd probably scrape my ass off the guard rails

but ya At a certain point you have to change the fuel injection -- but its not impossilbe to do so and the price is a bit more than carbs, but not completely insane type of money I think. Ingram has a HP pump for 785.00

How much are those kick ass dual carb setups -- with intake and everything? They that much less ? -- say going from stock 2002 to dual webber woopass. What does that upgrade cost? like $500?

thanks for that info. i have been thinking about upgrading my pump, but was completely in the dark. he's right in my backyard too.

ragards, jeff

p.s. i'm not sure about 160 hp from a stock kf injection...would be nice. i have that book, an excellent one btw, but don't remember the 160 hp tii being mentioned...i'll have another look.

[dubaholic]

I would rather get something to "tinker" with, so now I am thinking of just keeping my eyes out for a clean n/a 02. thanks for the tips guys. any other suggestions/info would be great as I am completely new to the whole 02 (and bmw for that matter) thing.

[Stephen V]

Keep an eye out for rust anywhere on a 2002. Don't buy a rusty 2002 at all! Rust is horrible to fix.

[Milkman III]

This thread seems to be going in a few directions, I am posting in regards to a good deal or not.

A few tips I use when buying cars/ or toys..
Find a price that you are comfortable with,
Find a car you like. Ask yourself if I pay X amount for this car will I be happy with it. Or will I always feel like I got ripped off or over payed for the car.
If you can be happy with it then it is right.
I would not put too much into what others feel a car is worth as that is not really important. Is the car worth 8999 to you? That's what is important.

I have always asked myself these questions and never felt buyers remorce or like I got ripped off. I am sure I might have paid bit much at times but Proximity, shipping and availability can play a part depending on where you are.
M

[Stephen V]

Definitely correct, this means that I know I did not get ripped off when I bought my car despite having to clear a lien. 300 dollahs baby!

[74tii]

Ahh the mutating thread :)

brave73tii - I went and got my book (keep it in my 02 trunk). on page 193 Macartney says


Exteme modifications may require the injector pump to be modified and recalibrated, although I have successfully used the standard 2002tii Kugelfisher injector pump with Schrick slide throttle injection and a 316 camshaft to give about 200bhp

Not sure where I got 160 -- So I think like he says up to a certain point the standard pump will do OK. I've emailed Ingram a few times (trying to locate warmup transmitters and other KF issues) and he's always quick to reply and has good advice. Since he's in your neck of the woods i'd be worth while talking with him about mods etc. I know a few people in the NW who've had standard KF rebuilds from him and they have been pretty happy with the service.


dubaholic: A totally worth while investment is this book we're talking about: BMW '02 Restoration Guide by Mike Macartney -- its not too expensive and is so chock full of good advice it will pay for itself in no time if you get an 02 -- and send you into a buying situtation totally informed.

best of luck!

-z

[Stephen V]

I don't think slide throttles are such a good idea. Since the car will most likely not be on full throttle all the time (as a racecar would), the slide throttle system creates turbulence when they are not open all the time which can be detrimental to low-range power. F1 cars even had slide throttles for awhile and decided that there was no point and went back to the old style (can I call it butterfly?).

Also, I have to say I have that book by Mike Macartney and it is definitely worth a look at!

[brave73tii]

Ahh the mutating thread :)

brave73tii - I went and got my book (keep it in my 02 trunk). on page 193 Macartney says



Not sure where I got 160 -- So I think like he says up to a certain point the standard pump will do OK. I've emailed Ingram a few times (trying to locate warmup transmitters and other KF issues) and he's always quick to reply and has good advice. Since he's in your neck of the woods i'd be worth while talking with him about mods etc. I know a few people in the NW who've had standard KF rebuilds from him and they have been pretty happy with the service.

dubaholic: A totally worth while investment is this book we're talking about: BMW '02 Restoration Guide by Mike Macartney -- its not too expensive and is so chock full of good advice it will pay for itself in no time if you get an 02 -- and send you into a buying situtation totally informed.

best of luck!

-z

cool. thanks.

[brave73tii]

I would rather get something to "tinker" with, so now I am thinking of just keeping my eyes out for a clean n/a 02. thanks for the tips guys. any other suggestions/info would be great as I am completely new to the whole 02 (and bmw for that matter) thing.
if you want to tinker a standard 02 is the way to go. with the tii your paying for the collectability. there's a very reputable 2002 repair/restoration shop in san luis obispo; it's called 2002 haus. i believe it's on capitolo way. great resource. good luck. keep us informed.

regards, jeff

[2002maniac]

Yes, definately go talk to Rob Torres at 2002 Haus. He is a very helpful guy and always has a line on a car or two. His shop is on capitolio way right off Broad street. I was over there all the time when I lived in SLO. Every time he would show me some cool super rare part or car. he's got a beautiful Baur cabriolet in his shop under a cover.
Someone else to see would be Kurt at granny's garage in Santa Barbara. I bought my first 02 from him when I was 16. Granny's is kind of hard to find, but it is off Milpitas right next to the freeway.

[74tii]

002 -- ya the slide throttles could be trouble unless you're making a race machine. But the odds of finding one are pretty low -- have you ever seen one for sale? If they were available i'd be cool to try one out :)

Was really just trying to judge how much you can push a standard tii KF pump without modifications -- if Macartney says he ran a 316 cam with the standard pump -- slide throttle or no -- its good evidence that the tii can be modified quite a bit without rebuilding the pump.

like when Ohtwo says


Yeah. If your going to park it in your garage, and wax it on sunny days, get a nice Tii. If you want a little hotrod to tinker with, and modify(and blast around), dont get a Tii. I think the biggest cam you can use on a Tii is a 284 without having some problems. Thats not really a big cam.

we tii ers have to pipe in :)

alas, I don't have the bank at the moment to play around with hot cams etc., and its obvious that the tii is probably harder to alter compared to carbs, but it can be done -- where there's a will there's a way.

-z

[kpolito99]

Good luck with that 316 cam! My fist big engine had a Shrick 316 and 45 DCOEs and my car idled around 2000 rpm. When she got on the cam and started to breath hard she really hauled ass and pulled to almost 7500 RPM. The engine felt almost like an ON/OFF device, WOT was a pleasure and I had to learn to live with everything else.

I wonder how much the increased runner length offered by the tii plenum would help the mid-range and idle when using the 316 cam?