Will my modifications make a difference?

[LeMansGTS]

I am adding a AA CAI and a Dinan Free Flow Exhaust. My M3 already has transmission and engine software, but I want to gradualy increase power. Do you guys think I will feel the difference? :buttrock

What modification should I add after I add the exhaust and intake to increase how much my car pulls? Yes I know a manual transmission would do the trick, but that is a huge investment, and frankly, one I can't afford. Neither is a supercharger or a turbo.

Track pipe?
Airbox?

What do you guys think?

[surfacewound]

Don't bother with a track pipe. Get the M50 intake manifold and software.

[BimmerDude18]

Save your money for something more noticable. You have an auto so take advantage of it. MAybe an even shorter diff ratio like a 3.50-3.70 instead of the 3.38. Intake and exhaust will make a small change but it is nothing that you can actually brag too much about. More than anyhting else you need to get the power restrictors out of the car. The intake manifold is notoriously restricting on OBDII cars.

You might look into a set of cams if you aren't ever going FI. THe M3 already has pretty agressive cams in comparison to an M52 engine but there is still room for some more power gain. Cams aren't cheap for our cars though (for some reason).

-Tyler

[surfacewound]

Yeah I didn't mention cams because they're like 3 grand or something, which I figured was out of his price range given what he said.

[LeMansGTS]

the reason i want the exhaust from dinan is because i can gte it for 600 installed.

[LeMansGTS]

Don't bother with a track pipe. Get the M50 intake manifold and software.

Can you tell me more about pricing for these things, how I can get them at a lower price, and perhaps how much hp I can gain from it.

Thanks

[surfacewound]

Can you tell me more about pricing for these things, how I can get them at a lower price, and perhaps how much hp I can gain from it.

Thanks

The kit is about $400, software would depend on which type you get obviously. You'll lose a bit of low-end torque, though I honestly didn't notice the drop. In return you get an engine that solidly pulls to redline instead of falling flat like it does stock. It should add in the neighborhood of about 20-25hp.

[LeMansGTS]

omg which kit is 400
? :redspot

[surfacewound]

I could be mistaken since I got a lot of other things at the same time, but I seem to recall getting it for roughly $400. Maybe I'm wrong and it's more, but it certainly shouldn't be more than $600 or so. I got mine from Alex at Eurospeed Performance. (http://www.eurospeedperformance.com/)

[LeMansGTS]

much appreciated.

I guess I will go with the Dinan Freeflow Exhaust, which I am getting BMW Installed all for 600 dollars.
and
The M50 Intake Manifold. I didn't know that there could be that much power added for that little money.

A final note, how hard is it to install? It seems pretty straightforeward, or am I wrong?

[surfacewound]

Yeah, I think it's the single-best mod you can do for the money. Sure a crank pulley is a lot cheaper and gives good power gains, but ultimately I'd still take the manifold over it if I had to choose between them.

You really should get the software for it though, so realistically expect to pay like $800 for it all.

I didn't install it myself, but from what I understand, while it's not an overly complicated job, it's still fairly intensive and would prolly take 5hrs or so to do. Just depends on your skill level I suppose.

[habbie]

The kit is about $400, software would depend on which type you get obviously. You'll lose a bit of low-end torque, though I honestly didn't notice the drop. In return you get an engine that solidly pulls to redline instead of falling flat like it does stock. It should add in the neighborhood of about 20-25hp.
you got 20-25hp doing the m50 and the software alone? what kind of s/w?

[surfacewound]

No, I didn't. I can't pinpoint what mod gave me what since I did most of them at once. But he's done the intake manifold w/ software and intake/exhaust and dynoed them at ~235whp.

[LeMansGTS]

I don't know about getting the software.

I have dinan engine and tranny chips, but if I want to do further upgrades with dinan I may as well get stage II software from them.

Do you think Dinan will give me good gains?

My redline is about 6900 rpm, btw.

[Serious]

crank pulley. 186 shipped for 10 rwhp dyno proven.

then get a 3.91 lsd diff.

do those and your car will be extremely fast.

[BimmerDude18]

crank pulley. 186 shipped for 10 rwhp dyno proven.

then get a 3.91 lsd diff.

do those and your car will be extremely fast.
Crank pulley = bad idea.

Underdrive pulleys are notoriously bad ideas because as our cars age so do the systems on the belt drive. By driving these parts slower we weaken their output even more. not to mention the possible engine damage from switching the crank pulley. The wirters of the roundel reccommend against it so I think I'll take their words and stay away.

-Tyler

[surfacewound]

Isn't a 3.91 at least $1500 or so? That's getting to be somewhat pricey (once again he mentioned that budget was an issue).

[pianoman90]

You can find a used 3.91 LSD for $500-600 on the boards occasionally. I had mine for sale when I did the tranny swap for $500, and sold it locally.

LeMansGTS - As for the track pipe, it will not fit the automatics. If it did, I would have already gotten one by now; I think it may be something I do after christmas. However from what I hear, there are no gains to be had from the track pipe on the OBD2 M3's. On the OBD1's there are better gains, so if I were you, I'd spend my money on something else.

[ZimDoc]

Swap in a euro 6 spd with a high ratio rear end.

Then s/c or turbo.

[Serious]

Crank pulley = bad idea.

Underdrive pulleys are notoriously bad ideas because as our cars age so do the systems on the belt drive. By driving these parts slower we weaken their output even more. not to mention the possible engine damage from switching the crank pulley. The wirters of the roundel reccommend against it so I think I'll take their words and stay away.

-Tyler

tell that to some of the guys on here with 50k on there motors with crank pulleys.

[surfacewound]

You can find a used 3.91 LSD for $500-600 on the boards occasionally. I had mine for sale when I did the tranny swap for $500, and sold it locally.

LeMansGTS - As for the track pipe, it will not fit the automatics. If it did, I would have already gotten one by now; I think it may be something I do after christmas. However from what I hear, there are no gains to be had from the track pipe on the OBD2 M3's. On the OBD1's there are better gains, so if I were you, I'd spend my money on something else.

How so cheap? Because it's a used one that someone is getting rid of? I always thought anything over 3.38 had to be custom-built, which cost $1500 or so.

[pianoman90]

Not all gears over 3.38 are custom. IIRC, the 3.91 LSD was an option on either the 323/325/ or 328. It was limited slip because it was only for the cars with the winter package or something like that. It only cost $500-600 because its just like buying a 3.15 lsd or a 3.23 lsd. It's a used diff out of a 3 series, not a custom diff.

[habbie]

No, I didn't. I can't pinpoint what mod gave me what since I did most of them at once. But he's done the intake manifold w/ software and intake/exhaust and dynoed them at ~235whp.what gain would you say from m50 and s/w with obdII? what kind of s/w? shark?

[Serious]

what gain would you say from m50 and s/w with obdII? what kind of s/w? shark?

dont start this sh*t again, we already discussed this on the e36 m3 forum.

[habbie]

dont start this sh*t again, we already discussed this on the e36 m3 forum.dude, mind your'e own business, men are talking here.

[vjlax18]

The Dinan Stage 5 software cannot be installed without the HFM. The acutal Dinan computer will not allow the 5 to go in without the 4. The 5 works well with the M50 manifold, and it reduces the low end torque loss.

If you are mechanically inclined, installing the M50 manifold yourself is pretty easy, just time consuming. The biggest thing is to label everything. You can put together a kit for ~$200 or less including the manifold. The write-up that I wrote is here: www.team-bar.com/diy_m50manifold.htm.
BTW, Eurospeed is offering a GB on S/Wright now, and they also have S/W for the M50 manifold. Also, AFAIK, Eurospeed is not offering their kit anymore, but Eurosport is a really nice one. It's pricey, but it comes with a CNC machined adapter block that allows everything to plug directly into the M50, so there is not hack mechanics involved.


Yeah I didn't mention cams because they're like 3 grand or something, which I figured was out of his price range given what he said.
Cams can be had for $1100 from Turner, S/W for around $400, and 24# injectors for $200 if you already have the 540 HFM and M50, it's really not that bad to do thing gradually.

[habbie]

are you guys talking obdI or obdII here? are the gain/loss the same for either obdI or obdII? is it still "all that" when you have a "stock" obdII car? in other words is it worth without going obdI? some pros and cons please.

[vjlax18]

habbie, I am confused by your question. This thread seems to be about a 97 M3, and not converting to OBD-I, however the M50 manifold is sometimes refered to as the OBD-I manifold because it came on all OBD-I 6-cyl cars.

[habbie]

habbie, I am confused by your question. This thread seems to be about a 97 M3, and not converting to OBD-I, however the M50 manifold is sometimes refered to as the OBD-I manifold because it came on all OBD-I 6-cyl cars.i want opinions on the m50 plus s/w, my question is, is it still worth it on an obdII somewhat stock car,(with no intention on going obdI now or in the future) what is the gain/loss what kind of s/w you guys recommend.

[vjlax18]

You have the BavEngExchange HiPo motor IIRC, so throwing it on your car and taking your car to NickG or AA for custom s/w would probably give a good amount of power up top, and a smaller loss at the bottom then just slapping on the manifold. The OBD-I cars that came with the manifold already had software from the factory designed to work with it. If I were you, I'd look into doing a 3.5" Intake, 540 HFM, and the M50 and getting it tuned all together at once.

I know you don't want to loose any torque, so don't do anything without the proper software.

I am shipping my ECU to NickG in the next month while I wait for my new motor to be built. There really are only 2 choices in custom S/W (NickG and AA) and they both are in Florida, so you are pretty lucky.

[surfacewound]

Cams can be had for $1100 from Turner

I thought those were only for '95s? :dunno

[vjlax18]

Actually, they are the same cams.

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=261.E1.641-V2C

[surfacewound]

Huh, I have no idea why I figured they were different. I probably just heard it somewhere or something. I never even bothered looking at them. :D

[habbie]

bav engine claims that the h.o engine puts out 288bhp(225 to 240 rwhp???), anybody buys that? mine blows 275psi to 280psi across and runs like a raped monkey, i am not to sure about the m50 yet (vjlax18 ;) not sold just yet....)but i would like more grunt, what to do :help keep in mind this is strictly for street duty.

[vjlax18]

You're gas mileage may drop significantly...

You'll want to drive it in the higher rpms more with the manifold. :)

In all seriousness, if you look at the dyno plots of before and after, the peak torque loss is only a couple of ft/lbs. The manifold pushes the peak over to 4500rpm instead of the 4000rpm that the M52 has. Also in doing that, it also makes the jump to the peak more gradual. The kick in the butt that's felt at 4k with the M52 is the ~45* angle of the curve, but the M50 smooths it out. That's one of the reasons there the big hole in the 2 plots when they are overlaid.

Proper software helps that a lot, but also the crank pulley helps too.

[habbie]

i used too feel the kick in the but with my old s50 right at about 4000rpm, i dont feel it in my (current)car it pulls hard but smooth all the way to red line with a little choke just before the red line(6500rpm and up)my old s50 surged big time at 4000, what gives? you say its the other way around? as far as rpm goes its not easy to keep it in the sweet spot(has to do with them funny looking cars with lights on the roof :) ) in street driving so it is something i have to consider.

[vjlax18]

I'm not sure why that is in your case. Maybe it's the cams that BavEng uses? :dunno