Dealer Invoice Pricing

[SJZ3]

So I moved to Canada recently and I am planning on buying a 325i. I even found one at a local dealer that looked worth buying.

But the problem is I am flying blind on negotiations. I need to know the invoice price of the car and each of the options so I can figure out a fair price to offer them. In the US this is super easy as there are probably half a dozen sites that list the information for everyone to see. But every Canadian site I have been to you have to pay to see the information. What is up with that? Am I just not looking in the right place? Do people in Canada really accept that they should pay to see information that is in the public domain in just about every other country?

Can someone help me out here? I am a bit frustrated at the lack of resources up here. Thanks in advance for any help.

[AJL]

Well where abouts is the car?? what year is the car??

i tend to use autotrader.ca to get a rough idea of what it is worth

[SJZ3]

Montreal, Quebec.

Is dealer invoice regional in Canada?!?

[Alpine3.23]

Montreal, Quebec.

Is dealer invoice regional in Canada?!?

where in Montreal
I try autotrader
or have a BMW specialist mechanic to make a quote for you

[SJZ3]

where in Montreal
I try autotrader
or have a BMW specialist mechanic to make a quote for you

I checked autotrader its a used site. I want a new car, hence the need for dealer invoice cost.

[Alpine3.23]

ok i wasnt following

you want to know the price of a new car before you go to the dealership so u can negotiate?

WHy dont u just go hunt around at the few BMW dealerships in the MOntreal area to find the best price and try and beat them down?

[AJL]

Tomorrow i will see if i can't get the price on a new 325 base to fully loaded out of my brother. Sorry i thought you were looking for a used car aswell, Hugo has made friends with the dealer in montreal, perhaps he can help you out ;)

[SJZ3]

you want to know the price of a new car before you go to the dealership so u can negotiate?

WHy dont u just go hunt around at the few BMW dealerships in the MOntreal area to find the best price and try and beat them down?

I am not trying to beat them down, just want to pay a fair price on the car. Having the information allows me to do this. In the US dealer invoice and any factory incentives are readily available which, if you are reasonable, almost takes the art of "negotiation" out of the mix. of course dealers still rip-off customer that don't do any research but in my limited experience if you do your homework in the US, go to the dealer prepared, you will not get hasseled they will just either accept the offer (if reasonable) or say no thanks end of story.

I don't understand this notion in Canada that the dealer's cost should be some secret information only available to a select few? It doesn't help the customer and IMHO it can hurt the dealer also. In the end if I cannot get this info I will honestly just skip dealing with BMW. I have ready access to GM dealer costs so I would be more than willing to find something in their large stable of cars to suit my needs (probably Saab or Cadillac).

AJL if you can get the information I would be really grateful to you and your friend. in fact if he knows a dealer (or salesman) that is willing to be upfront I will gladly give them my business.

Thanks in advance for any help.

[Alpine3.23]

I C
I didnt know that in Canada they are secretive like that

If Andrew (AJL) cant get u in the info I am sure I can I have a buddy who works at BMW Canada

[AJL]

ok my brother is out of town on some knowledge BS training but should be back this weekend, i can ask him for the price and then and tell him that you are willing to buy it off of him if the price is right.

The information you are looking for i haven't really heard of being available, normally everyone just buys cars off someone they know or a friend of a friend. I am sure you could contact BMW Canada for the info or get AJ off his stoned ass to call his buddy for the info. ;)

[Alpine3.23]

Andrew it isnt a druggy friend
Not many of my friends actually do drugs which is good

this is a nice girl i went to high school with
But i think it was only a summer job but im not sure she lives down there now

[David]

Unfortunately the information you want is unavailable to Canadians for free as it is for Americans on sites like edmunds, etc. Canadians CAN get this information from a site called http://www.carcostcanada.com . The only problem is you have to pay $30 for three quotes. To me the $30 is not a big deal considering what it can help me save in negotiations.

[Alpine3.23]

I never knew this of Canada

Also I dont know if this is possible dude

But what if you just check out the quote in US dollars from an American site and then just use the exchange rate to change it to canadian

that may give u a rough idea

[SJZ3]

Yeah I know about the "carcostcanada" thing. Its amazing to me that a company is allowed to charge people for access to information that _should_ be in the public domain.

Like I said if I cannot get BMW dealer cost I will not deal with BMW its that simple. There is no reason to accept this kind of thing. If Canadians as a rule are content to be tricked and scammed with secret dealer costs and secret factory incentives unless they are willing to throw down the bribe to "carcostcanada" that's up to them. I will just deal with a company that is up front with their costs like GM or Ford and offers customer incentives (which come to me) rather than secret dealer incentives (which just further line the pocket of dealers).


In the US its no big deal as this information is in the public domain. I am consistently surprised at the level of low quality service Canadians are willing to endure (and I have only been here a couple months now on and off). In the US I would say dealers and customers are on even terms as long as the customer is not lazy.

Anyway I don't want to beat a dead horse but again but I am all for dealers making a profit. But the fact that they are not willing to disclose how much profit tells me something is not right. If someone here knows a salesman that is willing to deal honestly and upfront I am more than happy to give them my business. My first choice of car is the 325i but in the end if I get a Saab 9-3 or even an Acura TSX I will be happy with those knowing I got a fair deal.

[Alpine3.23]

Sorry we couldnt be too helpful dude

Hope everything goes smoothly

[David]

Yeah I know about the "carcostcanada" thing. Its amazing to me that a company is allowed to charge people for access to information that _should_ be in the public domain.

Like I said if I cannot get BMW dealer cost I will not deal with BMW its that simple. There is no reason to accept this kind of thing. If Canadians as a rule are content to be tricked and scammed with secret dealer costs and secret factory incentives unless they are willing to throw down the bribe to "carcostcanada" that's up to them. I will just deal with a company that is up front with their costs like GM or Ford and offers customer incentives (which come to me) rather than secret dealer incentives (which just further line the pocket of dealers).


In the US its no big deal as this information is in the public domain. I am consistently surprised at the level of low quality service Canadians are willing to endure (and I have only been here a couple months now on and off). In the US I would say dealers and customers are on even terms as long as the customer is not lazy.

Anyway I don't want to beat a dead horse but again but I am all for dealers making a profit. But the fact that they are not willing to disclose how much profit tells me something is not right. If someone here knows a salesman that is willing to deal honestly and upfront I am more than happy to give them my business. My first choice of car is the 325i but in the end if I get a Saab 9-3 or even an Acura TSX I will be happy with those knowing I got a fair deal.
I understand your frustration. When I was helping my cousin buy a car I was annoyed that I could not find this information for free like Americans.

It's not that Canadians are stupid, or that we like being raped by carcastcanada. The fact is, no one has stepped up to provide this type of information to us for free. In the USA there are more publications and websites competeing for business. They need to offer info like this to keep people visiting thier sites, buying their magazines etc.

Carcost canada has no competition. Maybe one day they will, and this info will become free. Until then, I would just pay the $30. It really IS money well spent IMHO. Don't let your principles rob you of your money and the car you want.

JMHO.

[AJL]

Andrew it isnt a druggy friend
Not many of my friends actually do drugs which is good

this is a nice girl i went to high school with
But i think it was only a summer job but im not sure she lives down there now
down in London? it isn't Kelly

[Alpine3.23]

down in London? it isn't Kelly

COnfused?
Who is Kelly?

[AJL]

I think i was drinking that day sorry AJ

[Alpine3.23]

I think i was drinking that day sorry AJ


:lol
its all good dude

[SJZ3]

So just an update...I made an offer on a 325i w/ sport and premium package. The salesman called me back and said he couldn't offer me both the 3.0% financing and the discount from MSRP I was asking (approx. 48k to 44k CAD). He claimed they would make no money and the deal so I said fine show me the dealer invoice and I would make a reasonable offer above it. He said he couldn't do that. I told him fine and that was the end of it.

If dealer cost really was above 44k (which I don't believe for a second) then I would be more than happy to pay for a fair dealer profit. I just don't understand the mentality of these Canadian dealers. Its like asking "was this car in an accident" and the dealer saying "I am not allowed to tell you." Would you buy that car?!?

Very frustrating...

[AJL]

damn i was at my brothers house today and i forgot about this, i am heading back on wednesday and i will ask him what the price is.