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View Full Version : Rogue product review, SS kit and WSR (long):



frayed
03-12-2002, 10:52 AM
It's been two weeks now since I've had my Rogue Engineering short shifter kit and weighted selector rod (WSR) installed. Thought I'd give as complete a review as possible.

Usual Disclaimer: I'm a product whore. No affiliation with RE. I call it the way I see it.

Short Review: If you don’t already have a SS, buy this combo now. If you already have a SS, buy the WSR. Both pieces are that good. Really.

Background: My last car was a Honda S2000. This car, the Miata, and perhaps the Type R, have the best shifters on the planet IMHO. Snick snick quick. Short, almost too short of a throw with very positive engagement. When I got my M3, I was disappointed with the shifting. . . Long throws and sort of rubbery. Felt like a truck in comparison to my S2000. If you haven't driven an S2000, do so and you'll know what I mean.+

Kit evaluation: First, I brought the kit to the shop that I use, a shop full of BMW hard core racer types that are active in the BMW CCA. They've done a ton of SS installs, including Stygar and UUC kits. If you are in Austin, this is Terry Sayther's shop. The funny thing is, the tech I talked with is a tinkerer: he had his personal car on a lift and had disassembled his shifter linkage, and was in the process of modifying his current SS kit. While I did not fully understand what he was doing (something about pivot relocation I think), he was proud of his ingenuity. I then stated that I have RE's kit and he wanted to check it out. He said that RE had already done to their kit what he was trying to do! Then, he said that Rogue went beyond what was necessary in terms of component quality, completeness, and aesthetics (after all, one cannot see these parts after installation). He was thoroughly impressed (his words, not mine).

WSR evaluation: I have a first production run unit. Well built, solid. Very heavy, as this is the whole point of the WSR. The same tech that looked over the SS Kit said that in the VW world, most SS kits come with a counterbalance to attenuate notchiness. E36 kits do not b/c of the packaging concerns, just too tight down there. He thought the WSR was a great idea. When you compare the WSR to the OE selector rod, it's clear that the WSR is of superior quality, which is typically not the norm in the aftermarket.

Install: I did not do this myself, after climbing under the car and looking everything over. I was charged one hour ($72). The tech that did the work said that the install went w/o drama.

First Drive: Holy shit, my car felt like my Honda. No kidding. Slightly longer throws, but less notchiness than the S2000. I couldn't have been happier. Engagement is more precise. Resistance to engagement is only slightly higher than stock, thanks to the WSR I believe.

On the track: I got the car to the track the weekend after the install. No drama, just precise shifting all weekend long.

Today: Still happy with the SS and WSR. But now, I'm so used to it, I need to change something else. Argghh.

Other comparisons: The only other car I've driven with a SS kit is a friends with the Stygar parts. The RE kit is quite a bit smoother and more stock-like in the required effort to engage gears. More 'snick snick' if you will. Note, however, that this is not a totally telling comparison since each kit was on different cars.

///M3 NA
03-12-2002, 02:54 PM
I'll second this !!! although i do not have WSR yet, Rogue kit is great !!!!

KraZy007
03-12-2002, 02:56 PM
Good review, thanks

Texas M3/4
03-12-2002, 06:42 PM
And you post this AFTER I buy Eugenes old RS kit! Ha ha. glad you like it. I think I'll survive with the RS and add a couple of the weighted RS rings if they sell them seperately. Hopefully I'll be 90% as happy at a fraction of the cost. Hopefully!

Brad

Gatorbait
03-12-2002, 07:16 PM
Good review, Jeff.

If you had to give a ballpark estimate of % of increased shift effort (over stock) with the RE SS/WSR, what would it be? If I recall, the increase in effort for a short shift kit is supposed to be roughly commensurate with the reduction of the throw. How close to stock does it feel? Would you rate this as a must-have upgrade?

Andy

P.S. (another topic)--I'm finally replacing my rear upper spring pads tomorrow with 10mm pads, which should soften the rear suspension a bit (I hope). I've also got 60mm H&R linear rear springs on order (380 pounds, with height adjusters), which should also help to balance the car. I plan to post my findings.

Alan Taur
03-12-2002, 10:01 PM
I installed the RE 6-speed SS+WSR into my car a week-and-a-half ago, and I'm quite pleased with the end result. Install was pretty straightforward, the problem being the "bitch" clip. It definitely lived up to its name, especially given the tight fit of the six-speed tranny in the tunnel. It took about three days for the shifter to break-in. Now the shifts are snickety-snick, about a 30-40% reduction in throw. Shift effort is only moderately increased over stock. The only play in the system is actually in the tranny itself.

I'm not sure if the WSR makes a large difference in the six-speed kit, especially given the fact that the selector rod is only about half as long as the one for the five-speed unit. Because it's so short, you can't really pile on the weight like you can with the 5-speeder. I didn't try the RE shifter without the WSR, so I can't really gauge the effectiveness of the WSR. The bottom line is that I'm quite happy with how the car shifts right now. It feels very factory, meaning that the shifts are smooth, precise, and not overly-heavy feeling.

BTW, the RE shifter also comes with a heavy damping collar that attaches to the shaft of the shifter. I actually liked the feel of the shifter without it, therefore I gave the collar to a friend to use.

frayed
03-12-2002, 11:50 PM
Andy, I'd say maybe 20%? It's definitely not non-stocklike. It's what our shifters should have felt like from factory. Short, precise. More effort to be sure, but certainly not enough to impact lazy driving around town. Most of the time around the city I don't notice it. Driving hard, I realize how short and precise it is though.

I would rate tranny mounts/TME's first (for safety), X-brace second (bang for the buck), t/a bushings third (critical for handling, particularly if you have over 40k on the clock and drive the car over 7/10's), and a tie b/t a CAI and the SS kit. But then again, everyone has a different heirarchy of needs.

Jeff

T///MW
03-13-2002, 10:59 AM
Hey Jeff -

will you give an update after a few hundered miles. I have nothing but good things to say about my UUC kit, but have noticed a bit of a different feel as it breaks in - smoother in some gears notchier in others....

thanks for the write-up, and I know what you mean about getting used to things -- I am going with the H&R Coilovers in the next couple of weeks...

Tim

frayed
03-13-2002, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by T///MW
Hey Jeff -

will you give an update after a few hundered miles. I have nothing but good things to say about my UUC kit, but have noticed a bit of a different feel as it breaks in - smoother in some gears notchier in others....

thanks for the write-up, and I know what you mean about getting used to things -- I am going with the H&R Coilovers in the next couple of weeks...

Tim

I sure will. (edit: I put on 150-200 miles on it at the track, and about 200 miles getting there and back, and maybe another 200 around town. It feels great so far.)

eurospec#19
03-13-2002, 12:10 PM
Originally posted by alantaur
BTW, the RE shifter also comes with a heavy damping collar that attaches to the shaft of the shifter. I actually liked the feel of the shifter without it, therefore I gave the collar to a friend to use.

The dampening collar appears to be a band-aid attempt to add weight to the top of the lever so as to decrease shift effort. I don't see how it could provide any benefit since it is attached so close to the pivot point.

Alan, did you notice any difference in vibration after removing the collar?

What really interests me is why did you choose the RE SS over the UUC SS?

Alan Taur
03-13-2002, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by eurospec#19


The dampening collar appears to be a band-aid attempt to add weight to the top of the lever so as to decrease shift effort. I don't see how it could provide any benefit since it is attached so close to the pivot point.

Alan, did you notice any difference in vibration after removing the collar?

What really interests me is why did you choose the RE SS over the UUC SS?

1. The dampening collar is as much a "band-aid" as using a weighted shift knob. It really doesn't decrease shift effort per se, but it reduces notchiness and adds fluidity to the shift. It did, however, make the shift feel unnecessarily heavy in my opinion. I personally like the light shift effort from the factory, and thus I removed the collar. Funny thing is that there was no increase in notchiness after removing it.

2. No real difference in vibration afterwards either.

3. I've known Ben for quite some time now, and I trust what he makes. Plus, he's very easy to get hold of, a huge plus in my opinion. I've had a UUC SS (Comp EVO) in my original 5-speed. It worked fine, and continues to work fine in a friend's car right now. I can't say which I prefer more, apples and oranges (six-speed vs five-speed gearbox, Getrag vs ZF)

kitwetzler
03-16-2002, 02:12 PM
I am said friend with Comp EVO UUC shifter. Alan actually gave me the weighted collar... I think it definitely does decrease the notchiness and adds a more positive feel to the shifter... but that said, I don't have a weighted shift rod. Might be too much with it?

We put a WSR on a Rogue shifter in an E46 M3... felt VERY nice.

Both Alan and Roy's cars require more effort than my car, but their shift throws are shorter. (My car doesn't have the adjustable shift height, like the current UUC shifter do)

Like Alan said, not sure which I prefer...

hyperknight
03-16-2002, 03:06 PM
Damn you all!! Because of all this talk about SS kits and Frayed's review of the RE SS Kit, I'm out about $450.... but I can't wait till my RE kit with WSR comes in next week :D

hk