best short shifter kit??

[kapolani]

I've narrowed it down between the UUC and the AA short shifter kits. Now, I would like to have your opinion on which would be the best.

[TD///M3]

Have you searched the archives? You'll get different opinions because nobody has tried them all.

I have the UUC and am very happy with it.

Good luck with your decision.

[Bob ///M3]

I agree with TD///M3, very few people have tried more than one short shifter in their car. All transmissions, even in the same model and year car are a little different. So trying a short shifter in a friend's car, of one brand, and comparing it to a different brand in a second car isn't always a true indication of which works and feels the best.

I happen to have a UUC short shifter with the stainless-steel ball bearing bushings and ERK in my '99 M3. I've had mine installed for two years and love it!

Bob ///M3

[Kevlar]

It depends on what you want...

I have the UUC shifter... great shifter. Very short and very snick-snick. I used it for a year and it worked excellent. Beware, it is very short tho. I highly recommend that if you get the shifter, you get the Rob Knob to go with it. The added weight from the knob helps reduce the effort required to go from gear to gear.

I also have tried the AA shifter... while not as short as the UUC unit, it is smoother. It's no where close to the racecar feel of the UUC shifter, the throws are much longer. It depends on what you want.

If you want the racey sports car ferrari snicksnick feel, go with the UUC, if you want a BMW lever... that's a little shorter, go with the AA.

I still have both of them...

[aus]

I'm VERY happy with my Stygar shifter, especially for $150 shipped. If I was willing to spend more, the I'd also consider the Rogue shifter along with the UUC unit.

[///M3 NA]

both UUC and Rogue are designed by the same guy, Ben Liaw. Ben started Rogue after leaving UUC, Rogue shifter is of a newer design. I personally love it, very short and crisp.

[jaramill]

Best bang for the buck is the Ron Stygar short-shifter that is smooth (no notchiness) and uses a modified BMW Z3 shifter. Add to that a UUC Rob Knob-II with e-brake handle and you have the swiftest shifter around.

AC Schnitzer's machinery would be top notch but for $900 it's way over priced. UUC's is about $300 and people vary on their opinions. Haven't tried Rogue's though.

But I love my Ron Stygar shifter.

Gio

[Scho]

Originally posted by jaramill
Best bang for the buck is the Ron Stygar short-shifter that is smooth (no notchiness) and uses a modified BMW Z3 shifter. Add to that a UUC Rob Knob-II with e-brake handle and you have the swiftest shifter around.

But I love my Ron Stygar shifter.

Gio

Is the Stygar noticeable as far as shortness of the throw?

[jaramill]

Originally posted by Scho
Is the Stygar noticeable as far as shortness of the throw?

Let me put it this way.....before my short shifter, driving with the stock was like driving an 18 wheeler semi-truck! Shifting from 1st to 2nd gear was like rowing a boat!

Now it's like, I can shift from 1st to 2nd to 3rd at 1/4 the distance. It's smooth as butter and short for sure.

Gio

[Matt M.]

Glad to see so many diverse responses on this thread. The truth is, all of the different short shifter kits on the market have different attributes and advantages.

As a supporting vendor of this forum whose product is being discussed on this thread, I am of course wary of talking about my own company's products, because I'm not looking to wage electronic war to win anyone over, and I do still consider myself to be very impartial. I was an enthusiast in the BMW online community for years before I became a member of the vendor community. So although I have made my own decision about the choice of shift kit in *my* cars, I have the perspective of knowing the products inside and out from both the design side and the consumer end of things.

I do have a high level of faith and pride in UUC Motorwerks Evo.II short shifters. I truly feel the product speaks for itself, which is why I don't try to "sell" people into it. I'd rather offer them a test drive ;) However, I would not knowingly recommend a UUC product to a potential customer if I thought they would be better off with a different company's product.

All that said, I would like to make one minor correction to what I have read here already...


Originally posted by ///M3 NA
both UUC and Rogue are designed by the same guy, Ben Liaw. Ben started Rogue after leaving UUC, Rogue shifter is of a newer design. I personally love it, very short and crisp.

///M3 NA, I'm glad you like your Rogue Engineering shifter. However, your other comments seem to be common misconceptions that Bimmerforums members have about UUC Motorwerks and Rogue Engineering. I assure you that Ben Liaw did not start Rogue Engineering after he left UUC Motorwerks, he did not design the short shift products available from both companies, and the Rogue Engineering shifter is not of a newer design.

These facts exist regardless of the relative merits of each product, and they are not of any real consequence except to those of us on the other side of the sales counter. I'm sure they have nothing to do with how much you like your shifter :)

If there are any particular questions about the UUC Motorwerks Evo.II series shifter, or how it compares to other products, then ask away. Otherwise I'm back to lurking...

- -Matt

[frayed]

Here's my opinion, FWIW.

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=24976

edit: I have no experience with the UUC SSK. I'm sure it's fine though.

[kapolani]

Thanks for all the responses. I tend to make my own decision first then ask others for their opinions. I've decided to go with the UUC competition kit (with the recommended upgrades - bushings, cartridge). I'm also going to have the UUC tranny mounts and ERK kit. With these upgrades I should be in pretty good shape. I'm thinking of having Curry's Auto service (located in Virginia) do the install. Does anyone know if this is a reputable company? I've called and spoke with the service manager - he seems very knowledgeable. They seem to have a lot of experience with BMW's, Porsche's, and other high performance cars. I thought about having the BMW dealer do it. But, decided against it.

Once again thanks for the info....

[///M3 NA]

I am not in your line of business, nor do I know the internals of what happened, I know you guys are working hard on bringing us new products. There are different sides to the same story from you guys and from Rogue guys, don't mean to start anything :) I spoke with Ben a bunch of times and he seems like a nice and honest guy. I also got help from one of the UUC guys pretty quickly which was nice. People like UUC stuff and Rogue stuff :b_blue: keep up the good work :D

p.s. Although I would like a clarification on the clutch stop though, I had mine screwed in all the way and yet it was extremely difficult to shift. In the end I had to take it out.

[jsp98m3]

I have the UUC shifter in one of my E30s. It's a nice upgrade but can be a bit notchy and hard to get into gear with manual transmission fluid. Switching to ATF solved almost all of the issues. It's very difficult to make a change without consequences so I think you will have to be prepared for consequences.

In my E36 M3 I have the ACS shifter. It works perfectly, as it should for the money.

RE has released a new heavier actuating rod for all of the common (UUC, RE, Stygar) shifters. This may be an alternative for using a heavier shift knob. I have zero exposure to it other than seeing it announced.

I still wish UUC would have released an illuminated titanium knob :(

Anyway, they are all good products apparently, not owning all of them...

Matt, PM me when you get a chance.

[Matt M.]

///M3 NA, I appreciate the response. I think we both know that there were no secondary or hidden meanings to either of our posts.

You're right, there are different sides to every story. But in this one, there are a lot of clear, hard, facts that very few people are aware of. Some times I wonder if people shouldn't just have that information and be allowed to make their own decisions on how to a view a situation.

I'll contact you privately about the clutchstop.

So Jim, you're craving an illuminated Ti knob, huh? Ask enough times and ye shall receive...

- -Matt

[Kevlar]

Originally posted by Matt M.
So Jim, you're craving an illuminated Ti knob, huh? Ask enough times and ye shall receive...

- -Matt

An illuminated Titanium knob would be great... and illumated CF knob would be great too. One of them would probably work it's way into my car.

Only problem with the titanium knob is I have to park my car in the sun during the day. When I go for lunch or when I leave for work... I ended up having burn marks on my hand from the hot knob.

Although... since the knob was burning hot... it helped me increase my shifting times ;)

[Matt M.]

Originally posted by Kevlar
illumated CF knob would be great too. One of them would probably work it's way into my car.

Call us.

:evil2

- -Matt

[eurospec#19]

Originally posted by Matt M.
Glad to see so many diverse responses on this thread. The truth is, all of the different short shifter kits on the market have different attributes and advantages.

///M3 NA, I'm glad you like your Rogue Engineering shifter. However, your other comments seem to be common misconceptions that Bimmerforums members have about UUC Motorwerks and Rogue Engineering. I assure you that Ben Liaw did not start Rogue Engineering after he left UUC Motorwerks, he
If there are any particular questions about the UUC Motorwerks Evo.II series shifter, or how it compares to other products, then ask away. Otherwise I'm back to lurking...

- -Matt

Matt,

I have a few comments, questions and concerns.

First of all, I just purchased a 6-speed tranny last weekend. I never got around to installing the UUC Comp Evo short shifter I purchased nearly a year ago for my 5-speed. My first concern was whether UUC would be willing to exchange it for the 6-speed short shifter since I don't have my receipt anymore. I contacted Rob at UUC and he was more than happy to. Furthermore, the 6-speed version sells for $100 less than the 5-speed Comp Evo. When I asked him if he'd refund me the $100, he asked if I would prefer a check or credit my Mastercard! THAT'S WHAT I CALL SERVICE!

The question I have is why does UUC not sell the pivot relocation cup (or ERK) with the 6-speed short shifter now? I have a bunch of info that I downloaded from their website from a year ago and at that time they did sell the ERK with the 6-speed SS package. Furthermore, RE does sell the ERK with their 6-speed package. If there's any advantage to using the ERK with the 6-speed SS I would rather they send me it instead of refunding me $100.

I was trying to compare the quality of the UUC lever with the RE lever based on the pics they have on their website. (I know this isn't the most appropriate method for comparing 2 different products, but it's all I got to work with.)

The most obvious difference I noticed was the pivot ball. The UUC SS uses a stainless steel pivot ball whereas the RE SS uses the plastic pivot ball. This is inconsistent with the comments on this forum that the RE SS is of better quality than the UUC SS. Correct me if I'm wrong...

[HK_M3]

I second that notion for a CF illuminated shift knob!!


Also, this is part one of the questions I asked Rogue Engineering about their short shift kit. They claim that UUC uses the Ball Bearing cartridge as a marketing ploy and that they have actually been shown to fail under high heat.
:confused:

[HK_M3]

Here is part 2

[Kevlar]

Tread lightly gentlemen... we do not want to turn this into a RE vs UUC thread.

[Matt M.]

Originally posted by eurospec#19
Matt,

I have a few comments, questions and concerns.

OK, I'll give it my best.


When I asked him if he'd refund me the $100, he asked if I would prefer a check or credit my Mastercard! THAT'S WHAT I CALL SERVICE!

Glad you were happy with that :)


The question I have is why does UUC not sell the pivot relocation cup (or ERK) with the 6-speed short shifter now? I have a bunch of info that I downloaded from their website from a year ago and at that time they did sell the ERK with the 6-speed SS package.

Actually, it would probably have been even more than a year ago that we last sold a kit for the 6 speed cars using an ERK. The change is not just the inclusion or deletion of that one part, but rather a completely different lever. You see, the ERK effectively changes the pivot point of the shift lever. This raises the overall height of the shifter, and also allows for more leverage distance below the pivot ball. At the time that we were using the ERK with our 6 speed kits, the lever itself was much shorter, and had a much longer distance below the pivot ball.

The change was made when we started manufacturing our own shift levers. Instead of relying on the small offerring of different factory parts available, were are able to custom specify any dimensions we need to meet the task specifications of the application. The ERK still has its place in our shifter applications, but not for your car.


Furthermore, RE does sell the ERK with their 6-speed package. If there's any advantage to using the ERK with the 6-speed SS I would rather they send me it instead of refunding me $100.

Well, as you have noted, the Rogue Engineering "pivot relocation adapter" is simply a renamed ERK. Basically, here's the big thing about short shift kits that most people forget or never know: most of them are just factory shift levers. Ron Stygar, Active Autowerke, now Rogue Engineering, are factory shift levers from other BMW's, selected for sale to different applications based on their dimensions above and below the pivot ball. There's nothing wrong with this practice per se. All three of these companies have many satisfied customers. Also, as I said above, all of UUC Motorwerks shifters used to be based on factory shifters in this manner.

However, buying over-the-counter factory shifters from the dealer does not allow you to specify the optimal lever height, pivot distance and throw reduction. Rather, you just have to take what you can get. That is why the Rogue Engineering shifter is still where UUC was more than a year ago; offerring a kit for your car with an ERK.


I was trying to compare the quality of the UUC lever with the RE lever based on the pics they have on their website. The most obvious difference I noticed was the pivot ball. The UUC SS uses a stainless steel pivot ball whereas the RE SS uses the plastic pivot ball. This is inconsistent with the comments on this forum that the RE SS is of better quality than the UUC SS. Correct me if I'm wrong...

OK, this is obviously a touchy subject. First off, let me say that I do believe the UUC Motorwerks shifter is a higher quality product. I am not looking to bash the Rogue Engineering short shifters, but rather tell it strictly by the facts.

As I said above, Rogue Engineering shifters start as factory shift levers. Most of these levers are manufactured by Valeo in Spain. They are then purchased by Rogue Engineering through a BMW dealer, and modified to their uses. This may include bending of the lower pivot arm (if necessary) to fit the vehicle the Rogue Engineering kit is being sold for, crimping of the upper portion of the lever and the rubber mating material to minimize movement of the upper portion of the lever relative to the lower, and polishing by a metal finisher to improve on the factory appearance.

When you receive the Rogue Engineering kit, it is at least as good as the lever BMW installed in your car at the factory, because, other than the specific dimensions, they are the same. How do I know it is a good product? Simple, it is identical to the previous generation of UUC Motorwerks short shift kits. This is not a newer design or a new development, but rather it is an old design that UUC has already moved on from.

Why did UUC move on?

The issue with factory shifters, and the reason that UUC stopped using factory shifters for most applications, is a matter of OEM production quality. In UUC's experience, the levers often had defects that we could do nothing about; the pivot balls would be damaged or too small to fit properly in the nylon cup, the upper portion of the lever would rotate relative to the lower portion across as much as a 10 degree range, and the lower pivots would wear out rapidly.

That last one is the biggest issue; the lower pivot wearing out, in conjunction with the weak front carrier support, is what makes your factory installed shift feel loose and sloppy after a while. Both companies do have replacement delrin carrier bushings, but selling a replacement shifter that would eventually fall victim to the same fate as factory wasn't solving anything. Our solution at the time was to offer the cartridge bearing upgrade, where the lower pivot was bored out and replaced with sealed, replaceable cartridge bearings.

On top of all that, we were limited to what shifter dimensions the factory specified. Customized or specialized applications were out of the question, since we weren't responsible for making the levers.

Ultimately, we reached the peak of development with the factory-based short shifters. We had been bending, crimping, polishing, boring, etc, but that was all we could do within the confines of the OEM design. That's when UUC moved on to the height-adjustable EVO series shifters, and now the EVO II. These shifters have improved upon all of the issues that we found with the factory based levers: The lower pivot in every kit is a UHMW self-lubricating material that is much more durable than the factory thermoplastic. The pivot ball is manufactured from stainless steel to a much higher precision and durability than the factory shifters. And the lever tops have a redundant placement/locking mechanism to keep them from rotating. Since we manufacture these shifters ourselves, we can specify whatever dimensions the application calls for. We still have the cartridge bearing upgrade available, but now it is a matter of reducing friction, rather than removing slop.

It was that change that allowed UUC to develop the shifter we use for cars like yours. Although we do still offer a modified factory shifter for a scant few applications, it is sold at a correspondingly lower price point and with the caveat that the durability will not be the same.

As far as the Rogue Engineering factory based shifters, all the same things that make the shifter in a nearly-new BMW feel worn out and sloppy will eventually afflict these shifters as well. It is not a bad product, but now you know why I believe that the UUC Motorwerks shifter is a higher quality product. As they say "Been there, done that."

I hope this helps a bit, sorry if it was too long winded. I am doing my best to objectively call it as I've seen it happen over the last several years.

- -Matt

[yardboy]

matt-

i called rob a couple weeks ago and he said he would drop a few of those little allen head screws for the ss kit in the mail as one of mine broke. never showed up.

i can only speak about my uuc shifter as that is the only one i've owned. i ended up taking it out because it was too notchy. i didn't like it at all. i had the bearings and redline atf going and it still didn't help. my friend, however, loved the feel of it. so to each his own. i like to get from first > second quickly, and it was difficult with the ss kit. if 1>2 shift was better, i would have kept it as all other gears went in nicely, with authority.

its definitely a quality product, but i didn't like it in my 328. probably going to try a ron stygar next.

[eurospec#19]

WOW! Thanks for the reply, Matt!

[Matt M.]

Originally posted by JAdoreM3
I asked Rogue Engineering about their short shift kit. They claim that UUC uses the Ball Bearing cartridge as a marketing ploy and that they have actually been shown to fail under high heat.

Ah, another subject with some misinformation floating about.

When UUC initially began using bearings in the lower pivot of factory shifters as I described in my previous post, there were some failures. Whether this was due to a bad batch of bearings from our supplier or poor "engineering" on someone's part, I don't know. I do know that: 1. every customer who has contacted us with that problem has been satisified to the best of our ability, whether with replacement bearings or some other arrangement that is mutually agreed upon, and 2. We have never had a customer report a bearing failure with a height adjustable EVO or EVO II series shifter.

Basically, the forces transmitted from the selector rod to the inner diameter of the lower pivot of the shifter along the car's longitudinal axis are resolved into a compressive component on the inner diameter, and component normal to this that is met by the radial surface of the pivot. At this surface, the differential area can be considered to be under a surface shear, aka friction.

To look at it from another point of view, consider that throughout it's range of motion, the selector rod is rotating within the lower pivot. Intuituvely, on both automotive applications and other types of machinery, bearings are preferable to friction fit bushings for smoothness. Although the rotation is only a by-product of the linear force applied throuh the fixed pivot ball position, it is the primary source of friction in the lower pivot.

Both our standard UHMW pivot bushings and our sealed cartridge address this friction in a manner superior to the factory thermoplastic bushing.

Is it worth $25? To many of our customers, yes. To all of them? No. That's an individual choice, and all we can do is attempt to supply you with all the information available to decide.



Originally posted by yardboy
drop a few of those little allen head screws for the ss kit in the mail as one of mine broke. never showed up.

Hmmm. Reading something like that makes me shrug my shoulders and frown. We're not infallible, and it is possible that we made a mistake, but why don't you shoot me an email and I'll see if we can track your request. One way or another, we'd be glad to see this through to a resolution.


i can only speak about my uuc shifter as that is the only one i've owned. i ended up taking it out because it was too notchy. i didn't like it at all. i had the bearings and redline atf going and it still didn't help. my friend, however, loved the feel of it. so to each his own.

its definitely a quality product, but i didn't like it in my 328. probably going to try a ron stygar next.

To each his own, very true. :) I hope you like Ron's shifter. It is a bit longer throw than ours so it requires less effort, and it feels different because it sits lower in the car. Good luck!

- -Matt

[jsp98m3]

Blah, blah, blah! How about sending those two HIN Girl look-a-likes out to model DDE's for me? :evil2

[Matt M.]

Originally posted by jsp98m3
Blah, blah, blah! How about sending those two HIN Girl look-a-likes out to model DDE's for me? :evil2

You mean you liked these girls, Jim?

<a href="http://www.shiftergirls.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.shiftergirls.com/images/ssgirls2.jpg"></a>

- -Matt

[HK_M3]

Okay, awesome you answered my questions. One last question...do you rec. using the Rogue Engineering WSR with a UUC short shift kit?

[jaramill]

Originally posted by Matt M.

To each his own, very true. :) I hope you like Ron's shifter. It is a bit longer throw than ours so it requires less effort, and it feels different because it sits lower in the car. Good luck!
- -Matt

I agree with Matt that the shifter sits lower on the car and on top of that if you swap out the stock shifter knob and replace with the UUC Rob Knob II it sits even lower...just the way I like it! I can actually shift with my elbow at a 90 degree angle when stuck in traffic.

Though I disagree that the throw is longer...longer compared to UUC's? Or compared to stock? It's way shorter than stock but if it's longer than UUC that's crazy. Hopefully I'll be able to test out someone's UUC to see how it feels.

But overally UUC makes a great shift knob and e-brake handle at good prices.

Gio

[jaramill]

Originally posted by Kevlar
Tread lightly gentlemen... we do not want to turn this into a RE vs UUC thread.

So much for treading lightly eh Kevlar?? :) So far the discussion has been fair.

Gio

P.S. - Love those UUC girls (though a bit on the trashy side....but I like trash). :)

[jsp98m3]

Well they're overdressed, but otherwise they're just HIN-able :)

[ialevy]

I have to throw in my $.02...

I bought a used uuc evo II shifter w/ERK this past summer. I called up UUC to buy the carrier bushings and the cartridge bearing prior to install. I forget who I talked to, but they could not have been any more helpful! Since I was missing a few screws, he sent an entire new install kit for free! I also got an update that included a new upper part. After I installed it (DAMN THAT BITCH CLIP TO HELL!!!!!!):mad: I could not beleive how good it felt! I was so pissed I drove my M3 for three years without this mod. The throw is super-short, the H pattern is mucho tighter, and shift engagement is much more positive. Sometimes the second to third upshift is hard to hit under hard acceleration - this is probably due to my OEM tranny mush-mounts, not the shifter.

The only other short shift kit that I have experience with is the Metric Mechanic (now Autosolutions) that I put in my 633. At the time they were about the only show in town. Their shifter is nice, but did not reduce throw THAT much, and i don't believe it was necessary to replace the selector rod - excpt the Rouge WSR sounds interesting....

Overall, I would be more than happy to get another uuc product in the near future>:buttrock

[kapolani]

that's the kind of info that I like to hear. Do I need a short shift kit? No. Do I need a BMW M3? No. Now, do I want these things? YES!!!! There's a difference between needing and wanting. Will it make that much difference how far I have to push the shifter? Maybe. Will it make my car perform the way that I want it to? Maybe. But, I do know that in my quest for my dream car I'll try anything once I have enough info to make my own educated decision. Everyone has their own opinions and are very loyal to the products that they do eventually choose. So, with this in mind I read all these posts carefully and try to get as much user feedback as possible. Thanks to all who replied to this post. I've gotten some useful info that helped me make my decision.

[Hellrot]

FWIW, with all the talk about a shorter throw with this versus that, how about some numbers?
I measured the throw of my stock shifter before I yanked it out to put in a Rogue (12/01). I measured from the dash in 1st and then in 2nd, and repeated that in 3rd-4th. Rogue gives a 30% decrease.

Stock: 5.0 in.
Rogue: 3.5 in.

Can anybody provide mesurements for other shifters?

[Matt M.]

Originally posted by JAdoreM3
One last question...do you rec. using the Rogue Engineering WSR with a UUC short shift kit?

Recommend it? Hmmm.... Now we're treading lightly :)

The concept of adding more mass to the shift linkage to smooth out the feel is a sound idea, but not a new one. Tuners for other marques have been adding weights to cable shifting mechanisms for a long time. Heck, Neuspeed has been doing it longer than anyone can remember. With modern BMW's, I believe UUC was the first company to begin adding more mass to the shift linkage of modern BMWs; in 1998, UUC introduced the original Rob Knob shift knob.

The WSR's extra momentum when in motion can be felt directly by the driver. This is good if you like a really low weight knob, like a Momo. However, the center of the WSR's mass is several inches away from the centroid of the shifter, hung between the transmission and the lower pivot of the shifter. Also, the WSR relies on the distance above the pivot ball to keep from feeling heavy, so it would feel different on a shifter like one of Ron's shortened models.

Yes, it works. And it will work with your UUC shifter. But it could be more effective.

Recommend it? I really think I should go back to lurking....


Originally posted by jaramill
Though I disagree that the throw is longer...longer compared to UUC's? Or compared to stock? It's way shorter than stock but if it's longer than UUC that's crazy. Hopefully I'll be able to test out someone's UUC to see how it feels.

But overally UUC makes a great shift knob and e-brake handle at good prices.

Thanks for the compliment, Gio. Yes, I was saying that the shift throw with Ron's kit is longer than with our EVO II shifter. That isn't meant to bash Ron's product; it's just a function of the lever dimensions. Since Ron opts not to use an ERK-like device, his shifter sits lower in the car than ours (or stock). Although our shifter can be adjusted from stock height down to 3/4" lower, Ron's still sits a bit lower. Even though his kit starts life as the same factory M Roadster kit that Rogue Engineering uses, this is one of the many differences that gives the final product a completely different feel.


Originally posted by jsp98m3
Well they're overdressed, but otherwise they're just HIN-able :)

Well, they were even more overdressed, until they went and found a pair of scissors to rectify the situation.

<a href="http://www.shiftergirls.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://www.shiftergirls.com/albums/shiftergirls/abj.sized.jpg"></a>



- -Matt

[jsp98m3]

Send them out here. I will complete the engineering on those shirts. No extraneous tools required. :)

[frayed]

What do you think they would charge for a Rob Knob?

[T///MW]

The WSR's extra momentum when in motion can be felt directly by the driver. This is good if you like a really low weight knob, like a Momo

So are you saying a heavier knob (insert Rob Knob plug here) will accomplish basically the same thing...

BTW - I love my Evo II and the addition of a Rob Knob after a few weeks with the stock knob really improved it.


What do you think they would charge for a Rob Knob?
:biglaughb
shouldn't you be working ???

[jaramill]

Originally posted by frayed
What do you think they would charge for a Rob Knob?

I paid $80 for it (I have the brushed alumninum knob II with the BMW ///M shift pattern insert).

Go to UUC's website for exact price

<a href="http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/"><b><i>U</i></b>nderground <b><i>U</i></b>pgrade <b><i>C</i></b>lub Motorwerks</a>

Gio

[T///MW]

I paid $80 for it (I have the brushed alumninum knob II with the BMW ///M shift pattern insert).

LOL - I don't think that is what he meant...

[Sean@ECIS]

Matt,

Have you tired the WSR? Tested it? If not, you really shouldn't be theorizing on it.

You are a competing vender and have huge 'issues' with RE due to Ben Liaw leaving UUC.

You really should keep your dirty laundry off the Bulletin Boards.

I don't see Ben Liaw commenting on UUC products. hmmmm...

[Kevlar]

Originally posted by Sean@ECIS

Have you tired the WSR? Tested it? If not, you really shouldn't be theorizing on it.

You are a competing vender and have huge 'issues' with RE due to Ben Liaw leaving UUC.


Matt's post was right down the line... nothing wrong with it. He abstained from topics that might cause trouble. He offered his $0.02 about the product and nothing more regarding issues or tension between RE and UUC. Let's move on and not turn this into a RE vs UUC thread. Somebody asked a question... Matt answered it.

I'm tempted to look at your post as an attempt to draw him (UUC) into a dirty laundry kinda thread.

[Sean@ECIS]

Maybe dirty laundry was the wrong terrm.

I was refering to misinformation...

[Stylin]

After all this and checking out shifters from car to car.. Im still satisfied with my RS shifter.

[Bob ///M3]

Sean, if you feel Matt passed along misinformation...I'm curious to know what the misinformation was? Or could whatever it is that you're talking about be an "opinion"?

"Dirty laundry"..."misinformation". I'm confused! Maybe you know more about the subject than Matt does. Do you?

Bob ///M3



Originally posted by Sean@ECIS
Maybe dirty laundry was the wrong terrm.

I was refering to misinformation...

[Sean@ECIS]

Misinformation on the WSR. Not opinion, fact.

I know more about the WSR because I have actually installed, tested and lived with it. Does that make sense?

Botom line: I don't feel that a UUC employee should be theorizing, commenting or anything else on a Rogue Engineering product that he has not seen, tested or installed.

Do you see me commenting on Jim Conforti intakes?

Why has the WSR gotten such rave reviews from the people that have them in their cars, but suddenly Matt Malfa (remember, has not seen it or used it) claims it is not as effective a heavy shift knob? aka a UUC product.

I will not get into the dirty laudry/bad blood issue that fuels posts like his. Don't have the time or inclination.

[Bob ///M3]

I personally don't see where Matt said anything more than offer his opinion on the "theory" behind a heavier (more mass) shift linkage arm. I did not take Matt's comments to be downgrading a product but more him stating that it (more mass in the linkage) has been tried before long ago...and by others. Here is what he said:

"Recommend it? Hmmm.... Now we're treading lightly

The concept of adding more mass to the shift linkage to smooth out the feel is a sound idea, but not a new one. Tuners for other marques have been adding weights to cable shifting mechanisms for a long time. Heck, Neuspeed has been doing it longer than anyone can remember. With modern BMW's, I believe UUC was the first company to begin adding more mass to the shift linkage of modern BMWs; in 1998, UUC introduced the original Rob Knob shift knob.

The WSR's extra momentum when in motion can be felt directly by the driver. This is good if you like a really low weight knob, like a Momo. However, the center of the WSR's mass is several inches away from the centroid of the shifter, hung between the transmission and the lower pivot of the shifter. Also, the WSR relies on the distance above the pivot ball to keep from feeling heavy, so it would feel different on a shifter like one of Ron's shortened models.

Yes, it works. And it will work with your UUC shifter. But it could be more effective.

Bob ///M3

[Bob ///M3]

Known conflicts? What "known conflicts"? Conflicts about short shifters, design and theory?

Why should we move this thread to the "Vendor & Vendor Comments" forum? It's about short shifters! Is it not?

Bob ///M3



Originally posted by badbadm

Sean is right. It is totally unprofessional for a vendor employee to be running his or her mouth publicly on the Internet over "known-conflict" topic areas. All the elaborate engineering terms and descriptions in the world will not create credibility.
The BMW product sells itself. If an aftermarket vendor's products are BMW-caliber, they too will sell themselves.
Let the products do the selling, and leave the customers to share their experiences on the Internet.
---And why in the Hell hasn't this thread been moved to the Vendor Forum?

[Kevlar]

Originally posted by badbadm
---And why in the Hell hasn't this thread been moved to the Vendor Forum?

Cause this is a thread about product... not experiences with/about a vendor.

I believe Matt was right in every aspect... he analyzed something... pointed out facts and abstained from bringing up topics tension topics. I think he did a very well job at analyzing the topic without being biased.

This thread needs to get back on the subject... or else it will be closed.

[Sean@ECIS]

I have tried posting this twice, but the web site keeps hanging up or going down...

Yeah, I read it Bob...

Stated that it had been tried long ago??? On what, a Honda?!?!?!? Has it been tried long ago on a BMW!?!?!?!? NO!

UUC did it ABOVE the lever in 98...it worked. Fine...

No one has done it BELOW the lever on a BMW until Rogue did last month. Therefore Rogue and the people that have them are the only ones that know what the effects are.

So, how can he theorize or offer an opinion if it if he has no experience with changing the weight below the lever? Did UUC try it and find out it doesn't work for some reason? I highly doubt it. I think Matt would have mentioned it.

Because of that and the fact that he has major issues / axe to grind with Rogue, it is DISINFORMATION. Plain and simple...

Why is it that badbadm sees this simple point but you two don't?

Kevlar, how can he analyse it if he has not seen it, touched it, or used it? It is a completely new product for BMW shifters! You should have said his 'guestimation' was not biased.

Known Conflicts refer to UUC and Rogue having issues with each other. Not that hard to figure out...

Close the thread, please.

[Kevlar]

Originally posted by Sean@ECIS
Known Conflicts refer to UUC and Rogue having issues with each other. Not that hard to figure out...

The debate is over shifters... not over problems between UUC and RE.

The WSR works... people have verified this (yes, even Matt said it works). I don't understand the problem with his analyzation, physics is physics right? Take a lever... put weight on it... presto... less effort needed. The further the weight from the pivot point, the more effective it is right? A heavy shiftknob is on the outer most part of the level... the WSR is closer to the center pivot point.

oOps... Hey... I just analyzed the WSR... and I've never seen, bought or used one either. I know I over simplified it... but I don't have a engineering degree, I don't design these kinda things. I work on computers...

[Bob ///M3]

Sean, this thread was about short shifters when it started and good comments, questions and answers were being shared. For some reason you made a post accusing Matt M. of giving misinformation (disinformation as you say)! I have yet to read anything that Matt M. has said that was derogatory about Roque Engineering, Ben Liaw or one of RE's products as you suggest took place... Matt, in my opinion, has discussed theory and design practices. And offered past experiences and concepts of other short shifter makers (including UUC's) that have been used. Nothing magical or groundbreaking was conveyed... There was no mention of one product being superior or inferior to another. Again, the topic was more about concepts in design.

It was a very open conversation with no person or product being put down at all. For some reason Sean you want to keep including into this discussion Ben Liaw. Why is that? You claim that Matt M. is talking down RE's short shifter. I think he's discussing the different concepts (and ways) that shifters can be made...

I can appreciate your understanding that Roque has a product that is useful and well engineered. No one is denying that...including Matt M. It's no different from discussing the benefits of a mid-engine car versus a front-mounted engine car or a rotary engine versus a piston engine. Or maybe even a long-throw shifter versus a short-throw shifter and how the designers accomplish the task and the thoughts that go into it. The thread was about concept, theory, practicality, uses, feel, notchiness, smoothness, lightness, heaviness, etc., etc. You however, for some unknown reason, have turned this thread into a mêlée by saying Matt M. has "intentionally" given out misinformation. Personally I don't see (read) that in what has been said. To arbitrarily accuse Matt M. of giving misinformation is unfounded...

If you were a designer and manufacturer of short shifters your input about the topic of short shifters would be creditable. And I might add that "if" the topic was about the individuals you want to bring into this discussion, it would be highly desireable "if" you had been a partner with them so your input would be first-hand and creditable. But you aren't and you haven't been...

You never did say why you felt this thread should be in the "Vendor & Dealer Comments" forum! This thread has been about short shifters until you started posting... You obviously wanted to change its subject to be about vendors!

Sorry, but I'm just telling you the way I see (read) it...

Bob ///M3

PS - Sean, here's a similar thread where you twisted the topic in the wrong direction (about people and competing brands) and the thread had to be closed! You may want to refresh your memory: Adding 24 lb injectors to Euro HFM and CAI. (http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=15005&perpage=25&pagenumber=2) All you really need to read is Page 2 to refresh your memory that a Moderator had to step in because of you...