Trying to understand the current market for E36M3

[extramextra]

Saw this is on BaT that was a re-list.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1998-bmw-m3-109-2/

The prior winning bid was 28K for reasonable miles but prior front end damage. Is it the color combo and the recent service that helped this one pulled that premium?

I am have been on the hunt for a 96+ silver coupe (preferably with a slick top) so trying to manage my own expectations of what is coming on the market and auctions.

[bluptgm3]

Mid production 1996 is the introduction of side airbags and pyrotechnic seat belt tensioners. And ‘face lift’ grills. And some other items I am forgetting.
A slick top is going to be rare.
I have one, I have not seen another ‘slick top’ E36 in person, though I have seen an E46 ST.
These cars, as are all cars right now, are increasing in value/price.

Great color combination.
This appears to be post ‘facelift’, great interior, nice mods, though not a fan of ‘race springs’.

A full respray is a non starter for me as few will pay the price to do it correctly.


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[mrbeverlyhills]

not sure $28k is a premium anymore......

[notMpowered]

I'd say high 20s to low 30s is pretty expected for this car on this platform. You can find them cheaper, but almost anything sub 20k is going to need a solid 5k or more to get up to something that you don't really "think about" its issues when you lie in bed at night.

[hakentt]

The prior winning bid was 28K for reasonable miles but prior front end damage. Is it the color combo and the recent service that helped this one pulled that premium?
I am have been on the hunt for a 96+ silver coupe (preferably with a slick top) so trying to manage my own expectations of what is coming on the market and auctions.

It depends if it is the only M3 on the auction site, then it depends how many people want one at the same time. Slick top or non sun roof trim is rare because original buyer had to request it directly from factory.

[bluptgm3]

Slick top or non sun roof trim is rare because original buyer had to request it directly from factory.

LOL!! Local Dealer initially told me they would not order one for me.


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[blckstrm]

Mid production 1996 is the introduction of side airbags and pyrotechnic seat belt tensioners. And ‘face lift’ grills. And some other items I am forgetting.
A slick top is going to be rare.
I have one, I have not seen another ‘slick top’ E36 in person, though I have seen an E46 ST.
These cars, as are all cars right now, are increasing in value/price.

Great color combination.
This appears to be post ‘facelift’, great interior, nice mods, though not a fan of ‘race springs’.

A full respray is a non starter for me as few will pay the price to do it correctly.


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A full respray is a major red flag. When they also mention flaking paint... sheesh.

If this thing was minty original at 104k... I still think $28k is at least a couple thousand too high.

With a crappy respray on top of prior damage, that's just ridiculous.

[Cos270]

Trying to understand the current market for E36M3 (https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?2459409-Trying-to-understand-the-current-market-for-E36M3)



Aren't we all lol

[extramextra]

I'm just kicking myself because I should have went in on this one although its not in my preferred color.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1998-bmw-m3-122/

[blckstrm]

I'm just kicking myself because I should have went in on this one although its not in my preferred color.

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1998-bmw-m3-122/

Why are you only shopping on bring a trailer?

[extramextra]

I have a cargurus saved search and have been screening FB market place and eBay. I'm all ears if you got a better place to search.

[blckstrm]

Not exactly. But you have to know how to search. And definitely not BaT. Cars on BaT sell for a VERY healthy premium compared to anywhere else. And you at best get an extra $500 of value (at a shop, not DIY) out of the extra $5k+ premium you'll pay.

You've got to look in other geographies on FB, CL, etc.

BaT auctions aren't listed by geography - why constrain your search on other sites to local listings only?

SoCal has almost 20 listed today on FB marketplace. Yeah, a lot of them are verts. But a lot aren't. And while you'll find the most listed in Socal, you'll usually find at least a couple listed in most large cities.

This one closer to me in Dallas:

$14k (half that other car) for a few more miles, no crappy respray, etc. Easily sortable couple issues for the extra $14k you'll have left over: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/305866994519229/

These 2 in SoCal:

You want the same mileage as that car on BaT? OK, here's one close (with 118k) for $21k: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/188724983330589/

You WANT to pay $30k for one? OK, got you covered there, too - only 58k miles: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/647684622909942/

...

There are FAR too many eyeballs on BaT these days to buy a car there for even close to fair market value.

I've found autotrader / cargurus / etc to be the WORST place to find these. FB and CL are the places to find cars listed for "normal" prices. But you're probably not going to find one in your back yard.

[RBNetEngr]

Here is one that’s going to auction in a few weeks. BMW Individual, Euro model. Not a fan of the color, but it will probably get big money:

https://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/cto/d/rowlett-1996-bmw-m3-euro-spec-speed/7430719919.html


-rb

[bluptgm3]

Here is one that’s going to auction in a few weeks. BMW Individual, Euro model. Not a fan of the color, but it will probably get big money:

https://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/cto/d/rowlett-1996-bmw-m3-euro-spec-speed/7430719919.html


-rb

Good luck getting maintenance and general upkeep components


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[notMpowered]

We have the internet and shipping. It's really not that crazy. We've been doing it in Canada for 28 years.

[ChuckDizzle]

Here is one that’s going to auction in a few weeks. BMW Individual, Euro model. Not a fan of the color, but it will probably get big money:

https://dallas.craigslist.org/dal/cto/d/rowlett-1996-bmw-m3-euro-spec-speed/7430719919.html


-rb

BMW Mintgruen looks like Tiffany Blue

https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/b1-1607004412.jpg

https://wallpaperaccess.com/full/4496663.jpg

[E85STI]

Wow that color is quite bright!

[mellostock]

Good luck with your search. I think Autotempest will let you crawl Craigslist for e36M3. You could post a WTB ad here too. One advantage of BAT is you can see a range of e36 M3’s and look at condition of car with pictures plus maintenance. If your looking for the best deal than I think you need to look at CL, FB as pointed out by other commenters.

[Veleno]

BMW Mintgruen looks like Tiffany Blue

https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/b1-1607004412.jpg


I like the color above better than the color in the ad.

[nick325xit 5spd]

Good luck getting maintenance and general upkeep components


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Eh. It's not that bad. Some things you just have to order from Europe. As long as it's not your only car it's fine. And if you're spending that much on an E36, it's probably not.

[golgo13]

The market is crazy broken right now.

My opinion is that people wanting an E30M and didn't want to spend the money on the inflated price for that platform, went for the next best thing around 2017-2018 which I assume was the E36M. I mean, it's a great all around car in stock USDM trim (not to bring up the Euro trim differences) but if you spent another 5-10k you can just get the E46M which was more power and also a very analog driving experience. These are my opinions, of course.

Take the pressure of the E30M market, apply that to the E36M market and then layer the new car shortage caused by the pandemic which is inflating the used car market into the equation and you get cars worth $7500 in 2017 selling for $12,000+ in 2022.

Even counting for inflation (https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl), a 2017 car worth $7500 is only worth $8610. A car will sell for whatever someone is willing to pay for it, so I think the days of used cheap E36/E36M cars is long gone.

[nick325xit 5spd]

The market is crazy broken right now.

My opinion is that people wanting an E30M and didn't want to spend the money on the inflated price for that platform, went for the next best thing around 2017-2018 which I assume was the E36M. I mean, it's a great all around car in stock USDM trim (not to bring up the Euro trim differences) but if you spent another 5-10k you can just get the E46M which was more power and also a very analog driving experience. These are my opinions, of course.

Take the pressure of the E30M market, apply that to the E36M market and then layer the new car shortage caused by the pandemic which is inflating the used car market into the equation and you get cars worth $7500 in 2017 selling for $12,000+ in 2022.

Even counting for inflation (https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl), a 2017 car worth $7500 is only worth $8610. A car will sell for whatever someone is willing to pay for it, so I think the days of used cheap E36/E36M cars is long gone.

This also happened when E36es were already on the upswing value-wise. There simply aren't as many of them as there used to be. Also, the crappy ones aren't yet worth enough money to really restore, so they still get parted out/scrapped. If you want an E36, you want an E36. There are fewer every day

[RBNetEngr]

That Euro model with the Individual paint and trim is on the auction block. Opened Monday.

https://www.pcarmarket.com/auction/euro-spec-1996-bmw-m3-mint-green/


-rb

[golgo13]

That Euro model with the Individual paint and trim is on the auction block. Opened Monday.

https://www.pcarmarket.com/auction/euro-spec-1996-bmw-m3-mint-green/ (https://www.pcarmarket.com/auction/euro-spec-1996-bmw-m3-mint-green/)


-rb

The comments are fantastic.

[importbanana]

That Euro model with the Individual paint and trim is on the auction block. Opened Monday.

(https://www.pcarmarket.com/auction/euro-spec-1996-bmw-m3-mint-green/)https://www.pcarmarket.com/auction/euro-spec-1996-bmw-m3-mint-green/


-rb

66k

wouldn't

still an e36 with squeaky interior

[RRSperry]

Wow.. $66K for that? 177K Km? (110,000 miles)


I need to sell mine right ricky tic. lol

[ChuckDizzle]

Wow.. $66K for that? 177K Km? (110,000 miles)


I need to sell mine right ricky tic. lol

I feel like Hagerty is gonna hit me up soon and ask to raise the agreed upon value (and the annual premium) because of these recent E36 auctions.

[golgo13]

I feel like Hagerty is gonna hit me up soon and ask to raise the agreed upon value (and the annual premium) because of these recent E36 auctions.

I'm super curious how insurance claims are going for E36 cars these days. There has to be a huge delta between what KBB is saying and what the used car market values are currently.

[ChuckDizzle]

I'm super curious how insurance claims are going for E36 cars these days. There has to be a huge delta between what KBB is saying and what the used car market values are currently.

KBB's site doesn't like ad blockers so I tried Edmunds, they say a loaded "clean" condition E36 with 130k miles is about $4,700. Something tells me that the big insurance providers (GEICO, Progressive, etc) will want to reference these sorts of numbers and not BaT listings.

[golgo13]

KBB's site doesn't like ad blockers so I tried Edmunds, they say a loaded "clean" condition E36 with 130k miles is about $4,700. Something tells me that the big insurance providers (GEICO, Progressive, etc) will want to reference these sorts of numbers and not BaT listings.

What you're saying makes perfect sense to me.

I've owned a few cars in this niche market over the years (Integra Type-R, Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX) and anytime I dealt with the insurance company, I always had to find examples on the used market as sufficient comps to get them to pay what the cars were worth.

I sort of look at it as a cat and mouse game, with the insurance companies happily taking your money and then making you prove to them why they should give you that money back when you need it. I'm sure insurance fraud is a big part of why they're so tight fisted though.

[pizzaman09]

When it comes to shopping for 80s and 90s vehicles, I've found the most efficient way to search is Autotempest. I've been searching for a clean, loaded Jeep Comanche for a year now and it's wonderful to be able to zip through all the Craigslist ads quickly. Autotempest now even does an ok job letting you search Facebook marketplace place semi efficiently nationwide.

E36 M3s are definitely a bit inflated right now along with the whole car market. I am a fan of selling on Bring a Trailer, have sold two cars on the platform of the three I have listed. However I'd probably not buy on the platform unless they had the exact vehicle I was looking for as there is definitely a premium to buy from there.

[blckstrm]

I'm super curious how insurance claims are going for E36 cars these days. There has to be a huge delta between what KBB is saying and what the used car market values are currently.


KBB's site doesn't like ad blockers so I tried Edmunds, they say a loaded "clean" condition E36 with 130k miles is about $4,700. Something tells me that the big insurance providers (GEICO, Progressive, etc) will want to reference these sorts of numbers and not BaT listings.


What you're saying makes perfect sense to me.

I've owned a few cars in this niche market over the years (Integra Type-R, Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX) and anytime I dealt with the insurance company, I always had to find examples on the used market as sufficient comps to get them to pay what the cars were worth.

I sort of look at it as a cat and mouse game, with the insurance companies happily taking your money and then making you prove to them why they should give you that money back when you need it. I'm sure insurance fraud is a big part of why they're so tight fisted though.

So, I got rear-ended 18 months ago and had both - maybe all three - of these experiences.

My insurance (Progressive) valued the car at less than $5k. It wasn't my fault so they never gave me an official number, but I wanted to know roughly where they were so they gave me that ballpark. They use the KBB method. Cheap buggers.

They girl who hit me had USAA. They initially valued the car at $9k.

They use comps, and they provide you with a very brief overview of the comps they use. I tracked the cheap one of them down - a private party listing - and found the car had rust, a trashed interior, and several engine codes.

I should have also noted that I STARTED all of this by refusing to talk to them initially and directing them to my brother's firm. So when I went back and accused them of fraud and bad faith negotiations, they were both caught red-handed and knew they were just a phone call away from a lawsuit.

There was an absolute ton of drama and back-and-forth, but I provided several comps in the $17-19k ballpark between 180-195k miles, and they ultimately came back with a $12.9k value for my car. Which given my mileage (252k) and condition was probably relatively fair-ish. Not that I'd ever consider selling the car for that amount, but was probably a somewhat rational number I think a fair-minded judge could have arrived at (if not slightly higher).

You need to keep in mind that if it seems unfair, it IS.

They are bullies, and they don't expect you to stand up for yourself. Because most people don't.

They don't expect most people to engage a law firm, so most people will just either initially accept what they offer or fight with them, then tire and accept what they offer. But that has nothing to do with what's actually fair or what a judge would award if you went to court. Also keeping in mind that going to court is expensive, and they're guaranteed to pay out what they owe you ON TOP of those court costs. And my dad and brother kept reminding me that you'll always have some amount of whiplash, etc, and that injury to you personally is the real leverage - us weirdos are the only ones that care that much about the cars. So you need to start off going to a chiro to get checked out and start treatment to keep your personal injury options open while you negotiate with them about the car.

Also, they're idiots. They don't actually know the market or the vehicles. As you talk with them, you need to document your discussions with follow-up emails re-stating what you said on the phone. And as you trap them in inaccuracies or falsehoods you gain leverage you could potentially use in a court situation.

Which comes back to starting with a lawyer so they are fully aware it's not just an idle threat.

This was one of the lynch pins for me. USAA kept telling me the cars I was sending them as comps were "Special E36 Edition" BMWs, so they were NOT comparable to my 1998 M3 sedan. And this was based on them running the VINs of both my car and the cars I was sending them. In other words, their internal system was getting something very, very wrong. The third time this happened I laid it all out again for them in very simple terms, and added that if they came back at me with that statement one more time we'd hit them with a bad faith lawsuit which would have been triple damages (both the car damage and my as-yet incomplete medical situation). And maybe add in some fraud because of the earlier BS with the crappy comp they intentionally used. But ALL of the above called their comp system (or really their 3rd party vendor) into question, which would have opened the gates to even more money. On top of the fact that litigation is expensive and they want to avoid this at all costs, so it should come as no surprise that they found a way to use one of the comps I sent them.

Having said that, should that have failed, I'd have continued negotiating through my lawyer. Something this minor would never have gone to court, but they'd surely have settled far north of the $17k total they paid me and my chiropractor.

[edit] I should add that USAA places a 6-month window on "upgrades" you may have done to your car. Is it a Dinan car? If you sent it to Dinan more than 6 months ago, they won't include the value of those items. Same goes for everything. Which would include my 6 speed at this point even though I still feel like I JUST finished that project.

And this insult is on top of the fact that they place zero value on upkeep. A barn find and a car with a full brake / suspension / cooling system refresh are worth the exact same to them.

But you need to remember the bully part. THEY may not value that, and THEY may have rules that seem unfair, but if you're thinking there's enough evidence out there to convince a rational judge that the market places a LOT of value on something like maintenance, you're right. And once you provide enough evidence to them, they'll want to avoid litigation and will likely "make an exception" for you.

If they won't (and you have enough mods / upkeep value that it matters), let your lawyer handle it. They may have stupid rules you disagree with, but the judge doesn't have or care about their stupid rules, and your legal team won't be phased by that BS either.

I love the start of Ender's Game. You show them you mean business right up front and everything will go significantly better. You don't have to be a jerk, but you can show them you are dead serious about having your lawyer handle it and they'll play ball.

[ChuckDizzle]

Yea, definitely asking Hagerty for that valuation increase. I have a 5,000 miles/year policy which is more than enough given how rarely I drive it. Storage mode is probably going to cause more issues though, I should probably drive it more often.

[jaysonx]

My agreed-upon value on my '95 w Hagery is $21k. I may see if I can get that increased to $30k this year. Keep an eye on these appreciation trends, they will def continue over the next decade.

[cool2seat]

I just went with Hagerty when I realized how far off the current pricing is vs what it looked like the standard insurance policies would pay out these days. I agree that the current market is inflated, but doesn't mean that we shouldn't be able to get compensated for our cars values. I've got a pretty clean 97 w/116k miles and went up to 18k in declared value. Honestly I might need to make a change to that soon if the market continues going up.

[golgo13]

So, I got rear-ended 18 months ago and had both - maybe all three - of these experiences.

That's one hellova story! It's nice you had your brother et al there to be your legal team! I wouldn't even know where to begin if it came to something like that.

[ChuckDizzle]

I just went with Hagerty when I realized how far off the current pricing is vs what it looked like the standard insurance policies would pay out these days. I agree that the current market is inflated, but doesn't mean that we shouldn't be able to get compensated for our cars values. I've got a pretty clean 97 w/116k miles and went up to 18k in declared value. Honestly I might need to make a change to that soon if the market continues going up.

Mine has a rebuilt title, Hagerty sees that as a 15%-20% reduction for replacement value which seems standard. The initial agreed value when I started the policy about four years ago was $8,500 and now it's $10,500. An increase to $12,000 sounds reasonable.

[RightYouAreKen]

I just went with Hagerty when I realized how far off the current pricing is vs what it looked like the standard insurance policies would pay out these days. I agree that the current market is inflated, but doesn't mean that we shouldn't be able to get compensated for our cars values. I've got a pretty clean 97 w/116k miles and went up to 18k in declared value. Honestly I might need to make a change to that soon if the market continues going up.

Hagerty prompted me to check my valuation a while back, and I decided to up my agreed on value from $22k to $24k. That seems reasonable for condition (VG to excellent) and mileage (130k). When I priced out coverage a few years back, Hagerty wasn't that much more than my existing coverage, but I didn't want to deal with the hassle like the story posted above. I also like that Hagerty doesn't have hard mileage limits, as I've been enjoying taking my car out more often lately, though it isn't daily driven by any means.

And to think I was worried about over paying for the car back in 2014 when I bought it at 99k miles for $10k lol.

[cool2seat]

Hagerty prompted me to check my valuation a while back, and I decided to up my agreed on value from $22k to $24k. That seems reasonable for condition (VG to excellent) and mileage (130k). When I priced out coverage a few years back, Hagerty wasn't that much more than my existing coverage, but I didn't want to deal with the hassle like the story posted above. I also like that Hagerty doesn't have hard mileage limits, as I've been enjoying taking my car out more often lately, though it isn't daily driven by any means.

And to think I was worried about over paying for the car back in 2014 when I bought it at 99k miles for $10k lol.

Oh I know I think back to how I thought that 12k for something super clean under 100k miles just seemed crazy. I got lucky and picked mine up right before things went ape shit for 12k.

[ChuckDizzle]

This thread is now an endorsement for Hagerty.

[RightYouAreKen]

This thread is now an endorsement for Hagerty.

I'd consider it more an endorsement for stated value/agreed value/guaranteed value coverage. I'm not a huge fan of some aspects of Hagerty myself (their website is kinda old and clunky, they raised my rates this year and couldn't really tell me why, etc), so maybe research other options for similar coverage elsewhere. Hagerty is just the most well known.

[E85STI]

This thread has me rethinking my current insurance provider and coverage. The large amount of money I have sunk into my 98 in the last year, on top of the purchase price has me very worried as to what my provider would give me if it was totaled. I honestly have no idea what they think it is worth. Time to give them a call tomorrow and have a conversation about it. Not to mention the fact that my premium just went up $500 annually with no explanation.

[blckstrm]

This thread is now an endorsement for Hagerty.

Except for the fact that it can't be your actual car.

They only insure toys.

If it's your primary car - even if you have other options - you're out of luck.

You can imagine how their new "never stop driving" tag line drives me bonkers. Never stop driving - unless you mean the grocery store. Your kids' elementary school. Your work commute.

I am married and have two teenage drivers, so I would need 5 cars to have enough that I could actually use Hagerty.

Even then, I went ahead and asked how much mileage. Say I DID buy everyone a car and bought myself a second car to pretend it's my primary. While they say it doesn't matter, they won't actually (or wouldn't last time i checked two years ago, just before covid) insure a car that's driven 10-12k miles / year.

And yeah, I know I'm the only one who actually drives my "classic" cars (my wife's daily is an E32 w/72k miles on it now. So that would be a 6th car I'd have to buy to insure the E32 with Hagerty also).

But that doesn't mean this situation isn't frustrating.

[ChuckDizzle]

Except for the fact that it can't be your actual car.

They only insure toys.

If it's your primary car - even if you have other options - you're out of luck.

You can imagine how their new "never stop driving" tag line drives me bonkers. Never stop driving - unless you mean the grocery store. Your kids' elementary school. Your work commute.

I am married and have two teenage drivers, so I would need 5 cars to have enough that I could actually use Hagerty.

Even then, I went ahead and asked how much mileage. Say I DID buy everyone a car and bought myself a second car to pretend it's my primary. While they say it doesn't matter, they won't actually (or wouldn't last time i checked two years ago, just before covid) insure a car that's driven 10-12k miles / year.

And yeah, I know I'm the only one who actually drives my "classic" cars (my wife's daily is an E32 w/72k miles on it now. So that would be a 6th car I'd have to buy to insure the E32 with Hagerty also).

But that doesn't mean this situation isn't frustrating.

Yes, they only insure toys and its very cheap because that's all they do. I don't mind the mileage limits. They seem flexible over the phone, I needed to cover my e30 IX but didn't have a garage for it. A few phone calls with the rep and they said they would make an exception if I could prove that it was parked in an assigned and reserved outdoor space at my apartment and sent a photo. Sold the car before I started the policy but at first they said a secure private garage space was required and couldn't cover me.
If lucky, I drive the e36 about 1,500 miles a year during summertime.

[bmwstephen]

it is about to go up even more. thank you Hagerty and Jason Cammisa

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xatzi2Whnjo&t=47s

[blckstrm]

it is about to go up even more. thank you Hagerty and Jason Cammisa

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xatzi2Whnjo&t=47s

I wonder if this is just long-form demand generation? Not getting us to buy insurance from them, but getting new people into the fold (any fold) who then need insurance.


Yes, they only insure toys and its very cheap because that's all they do. I don't mind the mileage limits. They seem flexible over the phone, I needed to cover my e30 IX but didn't have a garage for it. A few phone calls with the rep and they said they would make an exception if I could prove that it was parked in an assigned and reserved outdoor space at my apartment and sent a photo. Sold the car before I started the policy but at first they said a secure private garage space was required and couldn't cover me.
If lucky, I drive the e36 about 1,500 miles a year during summertime.

Haha - I'm about ten times that (Corona notwithstanding). Though I'll never have a work commute again, so maybe it'll settle down to the 6k / year range from here on out.

[ChuckDizzle]

Haha - I'm about ten times that (Corona notwithstanding). Though I'll never have a work commute again, so maybe it'll settle down to the 6k / year range from here on out.

Not commuting by car makes the insurance provider very happy. It's good to have a commuter beater if you do, but I take the train and walk to the station.

[golgo13]

it is about to go up even more. thank you Hagerty and Jason Cammisa

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xatzi2Whnjo&t=47s

Well, there's also that counter point video that came out the day after where they rate the best M cars.

USDM E36M was last.

[bmwstephen]

Well, there's also that counter point video that came out the day after where they rate the best M cars.

USDM E36M was last.

The doug demero one? I find it it interesting that the ranking also coincides with the ranking least reliable and costly to maintain being the top (though he won’t say it).

[golgo13]

The doug demero one? I find it it interesting that the ranking also coincides with the ranking least reliable and costly to maintain being the top (though he won’t say it).

Yes! That one. I had to find the name of the guy.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oF8iPdSFxqY

[scoobiedoo2029]

sold for $25000, and not on bring a trailer either. repainted and hit twice
1997 BMW M3 Sedan for Sale - Cars & Bids (carsandbids.com) (https://carsandbids.com/auctions/36EVvgpW/1997-bmw-m3-sedan)


and this turd on ebay already bid to $17k 2 days out.
1998 BMW M3 | eBay (https://www.ebay.com/itm/275161158315?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D7770 08%26algo%3DPERSONAL.TOPIC%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D202010 18205123%26meid%3D2769cd18979e4f9f9073b8a5cc64a738 %26pid%3D101286%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26mehot%3Dpp%26 itm%3D275161158315%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380 057%26algv%3DWatchlistVariantWithMLR&_trksid=p2380057.c101286.m47999&_trkparms=pageci%3A0f1b7da6-9125-11ec-b6d6-6a5de2aec7fc%7Cparentrq%3A0fa4227b17f0aaf00ae1094a fffdd3e4%7Ciid%3A1)

manual sedans are rare cars but damn.

[blckstrm]

sold for $25000, and not on bring a trailer either. repainted and hit twice
1997 BMW M3 Sedan for Sale - Cars & Bids (carsandbids.com) (https://carsandbids.com/auctions/36EVvgpW/1997-bmw-m3-sedan)


and this turd on ebay already bid to $17k 2 days out.
1998 BMW M3 | eBay (https://www.ebay.com/itm/275161158315?_trkparms=amclksrc%3DITM%26aid%3D7770 08%26algo%3DPERSONAL.TOPIC%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D202010 18205123%26meid%3D2769cd18979e4f9f9073b8a5cc64a738 %26pid%3D101286%26rk%3D1%26rkt%3D1%26mehot%3Dpp%26 itm%3D275161158315%26pmt%3D0%26noa%3D1%26pg%3D2380 057%26algv%3DWatchlistVariantWithMLR&_trksid=p2380057.c101286.m47999&_trkparms=pageci%3A0f1b7da6-9125-11ec-b6d6-6a5de2aec7fc%7Cparentrq%3A0fa4227b17f0aaf00ae1094a fffdd3e4%7Ciid%3A1)

manual sedans are rare cars but damn.
Dude, I think turd is being generous. I didn't realize it was still getting worse.

That poor car...

[scoobiedoo2029]

Dude, I think turd is being generous. I didn't realize it was still getting worse.

That poor car...


that auction ended at $18k+ more then a day out. meaning he accepted an offer north of the bidding price from my ebay selling experience years ago. dont know about current ebay terms.


im impressed. glad i still have a clean unhit m3/4/5

[RND1]

I have a '98 Estoril/Black 5sp Coupe. This is Hagerty's latest valuation. Good condition cars now $27K, up 36% YoY. For those of us who have been around a while, remember when $15k was the norm? I have mine insured w Hagerty for $17k. Rather than increase my coverage (and premium) w Hagerty, I'm now wondering if I should just move it over to Geico and would have enough data from BaT sales to justify a $17k value if necessary?

https://i.ibb.co/K754kg6/Screen-Shot-2022-02-20-at-10-20-10-AM.png (https://ibb.co/XpW0gPX)

[Xiphos]

I have a '98 Estoril/Black 5sp Coupe. This is Hagerty's latest valuation. Good condition cars now $27K, up 36% YoY. For those of us who have been around a while, remember when $15k was the norm? I have mine insured w Hagerty for $17k. Rather than increase my coverage (and premium) w Hagerty, I'm now wondering if I should just move it over to Geico and would have enough data from BaT sales to justify a $17k value if necessary?



I remember when a mint E36 M3 was 15k and we all had sticker stock haha. All of this is further justification for me to keep my M and continue replacing whatever I can to get it in top shape.

[blckstrm]

I have a '98 Estoril/Black 5sp Coupe. This is Hagerty's latest valuation. Good condition cars now $27K, up 36% YoY. For those of us who have been around a while, remember when $15k was the norm? I have mine insured w Hagerty for $17k. Rather than increase my coverage (and premium) w Hagerty, I'm now wondering if I should just move it over to Geico and would have enough data from BaT sales to justify a $17k value if necessary?

https://i.ibb.co/K754kg6/Screen-Shot-2022-02-20-at-10-20-10-AM.png (https://ibb.co/XpW0gPX)

It's a crap shoot. You'll have to ask them how they determine values. Lots just use KBB, which is UP to the $10k ballpark.

I'd keep Hagerty if you've got a policy already.

If I remember Geico is a KBB shop. USAA uses comps, but they're looking for Autotrader or other listings or sales. They specifically will not use auctions. Which is a problem because there are very few people selling these things on normal websites anymore. The overpriced dealers are balanced out by the ignorant who underpriced.

And as always, their first priority is to minimize costs, so they'll be inclined to pick crappy comps. After what I've been through, I'd take Hagerty all day long.

[pizzaman09]

Except for the fact that it can't be your actual car.

They only insure toys.

If it's your primary car - even if you have other options - you're out of luck.

You can imagine how their new "never stop driving" tag line drives me bonkers. Never stop driving - unless you mean the grocery store. Your kids' elementary school. Your work commute.

I am married and have two teenage drivers, so I would need 5 cars to have enough that I could actually use Hagerty.

Even then, I went ahead and asked how much mileage. Say I DID buy everyone a car and bought myself a second car to pretend it's my primary. While they say it doesn't matter, they won't actually (or wouldn't last time i checked two years ago, just before covid) insure a car that's driven 10-12k miles / year.

And yeah, I know I'm the only one who actually drives my "classic" cars (my wife's daily is an E32 w/72k miles on it now. So that would be a 6th car I'd have to buy to insure the E32 with Hagerty also).

But that doesn't mean this situation isn't frustrating.

This is basically why I don't have Hagerty insurance. My newest car is my 99 BMW M3 it's a daily driver late Fall, Winter and early Spring. I drive it in the summer too, mostly for autocross, however I tend to daily my 1962 Austin Healey Sprite in the summer. Mind you I have an 8 mile round trip commute for work, I have a hard time putting 2k miles on the Sprite in a year. I still will daily it for weeks straight at a time, sun or rain. I also have a 99 Oldsmobile Eighty Eight to use, but it isn't as fun and only gets driven to really just keep it running. Funny enough the Oldsmobile is the most expensive to insure and the M3 the least of those three. I'm starting to consider putting comprehensive on the M3 due to its increase in value, for years I always just assumed self insure it.

[Xiphos]

A lot of talk in this thread about insurance companies.

So who do you all recommend for the best coverage for our cars that are daily driven?

[RBNetEngr]

Maybe affordable liability coverage, and then cash in the bank as insurance to cover a crash? If you pay Hagerty $6000/yr to cover your car up to $25k, you could probably put $25k cash in a bank account and earn interest, and buy liability coverage for a low rate.

Just a thought. Hagerty is really designed to insure collectible cars that are not daily driven.


-rb

[blckstrm]

A lot of talk in this thread about insurance companies.

So who do you all recommend for the best coverage for our cars that are daily driven?

I hate USAA after my experience fighting with them when one of their members rear-ended me, but they are one of few who (and only one I'm aware of) who base their values on actual recent comps and not on Kelly Low-ball Book.

And yeah, I'd get comprehensive with them if you qualify for them.

But your best bet is Hagerty or similar if you can make a case for it.

[Wagen]

What about the value of M3s that are in rough shape? I've come across a '98 Dakar 5 speed sedan with a nice black interior, looks original and undamaged, but the paint is faded and rust has taken a toll on it. It's been sitting abandoned at a shop for a couple years and they're keen to get rid of it; the owner lives out of state but they gave me his contact info. Five years ago it'd probably be a parts car, but if I can get it for cheap I think it's worth keeping it on the road, at the very least as a fun autox/track car. If I can get in touch with the owner and he's willing to sell, how much do you think I should offer (because you know he's gonna say "what'll you give me for it?")

[RRSperry]

Rust is the unknown. If you can see it, you know there’s a lot more that you can’t see. Realistically, the only permanent fix is to replace it.. lots of labor… it still a $5k car… I’d think almost anything that runs is worth 5k…

[MParallel]

Mid production 1996 is the introduction of side airbags and pyrotechnic seat belt tensioners. And ‘face lift’ grills.(...)

No, no and no.

- Side airbags: from 9/97 (MY98) (US coupe/cabrio), 3/97 EU Sedan, then US sedan has both 1/97 and 3/97 so ok, it's a bit hit'n'miss, but they were not around in 1996.

- Pyro belt tensioners: from 3/97 (mid MY97 update)

- Facelift kidneys: from 9/96 (MY97)

[blckstrm]

What about the value of M3s that are in rough shape? I've come across a '98 Dakar 5 speed sedan with a nice black interior, looks original and undamaged, but the paint is faded and rust has taken a toll on it. It's been sitting abandoned at a shop for a couple years and they're keen to get rid of it; the owner lives out of state but they gave me his contact info. Five years ago it'd probably be a parts car, but if I can get it for cheap I think it's worth keeping it on the road, at the very least as a fun autox/track car. If I can get in touch with the owner and he's willing to sell, how much do you think I should offer (because you know he's gonna say "what'll you give me for it?")


Rust is the unknown. If you can see it, you know there’s a lot more that you can’t see. Realistically, the only permanent fix is to replace it.. lots of labor… it still a $5k car… I’d think almost anything that runs is worth 5k…

There are a lot of unknowns here. DOES it run? How does it run? Any maintenance history? Mileage? (I've listed these in order of importance).

I just helped a friend buy a mechanically decent car in borderline fair/poor cosmetic condition. New front seats, toasted headliner and pillar trim. Back seats are fairly rough. Paint can likely be moderately buffed and brought back to good condition - except for a couple small spots where it'll need to be painted. Very little actual rust, but a few small spots. 193k on the clock.

Mechanically, the driveline is healthy, but it's a manual swap still needing the reverse light wired and solenoid errors coded out and it desperately needed new rotors. Had a front impact (not on carfax, so not bad enough for an actual repair shop visit) 18-24 months ago, so the front fascia, radiator and everything is all new (they did replace the water pump, but the thermostat is bad, which I guess calls into question how much they did vs should have done).

All that said, he paid $7k for it, which I think was still a pretty good price considering what it needs done to it.

If the paint was in worse shape, I'd have been right in the same $4-$5k ballpark given some of the issues this car had.

[QtheGenius]

My opinion:

As a seller, you likely want as much as you can get, depending on how fast you want to sell. The chance of getting what you want for what you have usually won't happen unless you've under valued it or have a true garage queen.

As a buyer, you want to pay the least amount as possible while still getting the quality you want. The chance of getting a car for the dollar value you want at the quality level that you want usually will never match and you'll have to yield and adjust your expectations and wallet accordingly.

[MParallel]

You gotta pay, if you want to play.

Or something along those lines.

[Wagen]

Thanks for the input, was not expecting answers as high as ~$5-7k. Of course the health of the engine matters but since I live in Michigan rust is always the main issue I look at and, while I've seen worse, this one is borderline parts car.

[blckstrm]

Thanks for the input, was not expecting answers as high as ~$5-7k. Of course the health of the engine matters but since I live in Michigan rust is always the main issue I look at and, while I've seen worse, this one is borderline parts car.

Assuming it runs, think about what just the drivetrain alone is worth:
Engine - $2500 minimum. Probably more like $3500
Transmission - $1000
Driveshaft - $400
Diff - $600
Axles - $250

You're right about $5k assuming you throw everything else away.

And if there's a lot of rust, you might have to do exactly that.

You should offer what you're willing to pay and give them some reasoning. They might think that's fair and prefer to sell to you vs seeing the car get dismantled.

[mikedezo]

I just paid 19,500 canadian for a techno violet 97 m3 coupe with 143,000km. 88k miles. it was in a dark underground parking garage covered in dust. i brought a flashlight and crawled around it on my hands and knees looking for sign of it being repainted. besides the hood showing some primer under stone chips I couldn't find ANY overspray, orange peel, drips, etc... then i got it home and washed it and found one small small tape line at the roof line. roof is original paint and the rest was re-sprayed and blended amazing. must be a 20 year old paint job though. could of sworn it was oem. all panels and doors have original VIN tags on them and paint is correct under the trunk i can tell its never been removed. Was kind of disappointed but it is what it is. going to get the hood and front nose panel re-sprayed and blended into the fenders .
also came with cheap aftermarket rims but i have a set of DS2's to get powder coated and just picked up a set of 5 decent condition contours as well yesterday with a spare that's never been used so that was a bonus.

Interior is pretty mint, bit of crackage on the vaders but no rips and bolsters are in great shape. needs headliner re-glued or replaced soon though. had a dent guy come to my house and take out about 10 dents yesterday, he did an awesome job cleaning the doors and rear quarters up. well worth the $175.
just spent 1000 bucks at uuc on shortshifter, front swaybar, stainless lines, some bushings.
also 500 at turner on power pulleys, bushings, front windshield cowl. trying not to make this car a money pit. think i'm done spending will enjoy for the summer then will buy more stuff next winter.

overall pretty happy with the purchase as i've been looking for a couple years for a clean one with low km. kind of kicking myself for not buying a clean estoril blue one a couple years ago for 19k at the time, it had quite a few expensive mods done to it as well.

[Nova1]

What about the value of M3s that are in rough shape? I've come across a '98 Dakar 5 speed sedan with a nice black interior, looks original and undamaged, but the paint is faded and rust has taken a toll on it. It's been sitting abandoned at a shop for a couple years and they're keen to get rid of it; the owner lives out of state but they gave me his contact info. Five years ago it'd probably be a parts car, but if I can get it for cheap I think it's worth keeping it on the road, at the very least as a fun autox/track car. If I can get in touch with the owner and he's willing to sell, how much do you think I should offer (because you know he's gonna say "what'll you give me for it?")

Would you be willing to give me that contact info? A Dakar sedan 5 speed I would be interested in coming to take a look at.

[ChuckDizzle]

Assuming it runs, think about what just the drivetrain alone is worth:
Engine - $2500 minimum. Probably more like $3500
Transmission - $1000
Driveshaft - $400
Diff - $600
Axles - $250

You're right about $5k assuming you throw everything else away.

And if there's a lot of rust, you might have to do exactly that.

You should offer what you're willing to pay and give them some reasoning. They might think that's fair and prefer to sell to you vs seeing the car get dismantled.

$1,000 ZF's are real, I had to double check because I remember these things were like $300 less than a couple years ago.

[golgo13]

$1,000 ZF's are real, I had to double check because I remember these things were like $300 less than a couple years ago.
I know! Pisses me off, since this is my track car. I really enjoyed the idea of cheap spare parts.

[ChuckDizzle]

I know! Pisses me off, since this is my track car. I really enjoyed the idea of cheap spare parts.

Door seals. You'll need to offer your first born child for some of those in the near future.

[bmwstephen]

Door seals. You'll need to offer your first born child for some of those in the near future.

I cant even give my first or second born for the black seals because they are indefinitely back order

[golgo13]

Can you just strip them from a donor car at a junk yard?

[bmwstephen]

Can you just strip them from a donor car at a junk yard?

these are all tired and ripped by now. been at it for the last 2 years

[golgo13]

these are all tired and ripped by now. been at it for the last 2 years

Sounds like making ones for 1/3 the price is a business opportunity!

[ChuckDizzle]

Can you just strip them from a donor car at a junk yard?

:rofl



I wish :(

[blckstrm]

$1,000 ZF's are real, I had to double check because I remember these things were like $300 less than a couple years ago.

Haha - I know! I was shocked, too. That's why I wound up doing the 6 speed conversion.

[MParallel]

It happens when too much folks all want the same
And it seems also all at the same time.

[bluptgm3]

It happens when too much folks all want the same
And it seems also all at the same time.

…as supply begins to ‘dry up’…


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ChuckDizzle]

It happens when too much folks all want the same
And it seems also all at the same time.

Ha, I remember when referring to someone as an e36 owner was a punchline. Now everyone wants our shit.

[MParallel]

Ha, I remember when referring to someone as an e36 owner was a punchline. Now everyone wants our shit.

Haha so true. Guess who's laughing now.

[blckstrm]

Ha, I remember when referring to someone as an e36 owner was a punchline. Now everyone wants our shit.

Haha - literally.

I sold my 320Z (which wasn't in as poor shape as I originally believed) along with the UUC clutch and flywheel for $750. And which in hindsight should have been at least $1k.

[ChuckDizzle]

The thread motivated me to bring the E36 back home and start driving it more. Called up AAA and scheduled the pickup, first time using their services as well and saved me a ton of money. Some bitch ass rodent(s) scratched the paint around the trunk, gonna bring the cat with me next time and let him go hunting in the garage.

[hakentt]

Called up AAA and scheduled the pickup,.

Many Tow guys hook up the E36 by the rear control arm bending it.

[ChuckDizzle]

Many Tow guys hook up the E36 by the rear control arm bending it.

The car runs fine, we drove it up the ramp and he parked it in my driveway when he arrived at the house. Not an emergency tow.

[bluptgm3]

Many Tow guys hook up the E36 by the rear control arm bending it.

Do you mean ‘tie it down by the rear control arm’?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[MParallel]

Why would anyone do that? There is a specific towing hook location, that's not there for show.

[ChuckDizzle]

Why would anyone do that? There is a specific towing hook location, that's not there for show.

It's common around here, the operators are trying to hook the car as quickly as possible. Most don't know where to find the tow hook in the trunk and aren't interested in removing the bumper molding to access the threads.

[E85STI]

Many Tow guys hook up the E36 by the rear control arm bending it.

Unfortunately this happened to me years ago on my 95 M3 and I fought with them to pay for the bent controls arms but it was a losing battle. I ended up just replacing them with a new set of stock units.

[MParallel]

It's common around here, the operators are trying to hook the car as quickly as possible. Most don't know where to find the tow hook in the trunk and aren't interested in removing the bumper molding to access the threads.

Sounds like false economy to me.