Value of Paint Condition

[QtheGenius]

I'm highly considering putting my M3/2/5 up for sale. The interior is damn good with a few flaws, and tasteful engine/performance mods, all of which can be unbolted and retuned to stock, are in good condition. The main issue is the paint condition. Beneath the rear quarter windows, the clear is starting to fade/chip on that small 1/2" ledge below the rubber seal, and on the C pillars, the clear is again fading. Considering from a driving perspective the car is exactly what you want in the car, how much does the less than total quarter square foot of affected paint depreciate the cars value?

[zellamay]

You don't describe the rest of the car as "perfect", or "show car", so I doubt that bit of fading would have any significant effect on the value of the car.

[notMpowered]

Pictures are worth a thousand words.

[blckstrm]

Everyone has had valid feedback so far.

Simplistically, the answer is yes. The question is "how much" - which would be answered by pictures to some extent.

Most of us can turn a wrench. Very few of us can paint, especially to the quality you'd want for one of these, so this will be an item a potential buyer will 100% have to pay full retail / shop rate to address.

[importbanana]

There's no definitive answer. Someone might not mind it, some do. I would pay less by the amount it would cost me to have that paint problem solved, and if it means a complete repaint I would pay you less by that amount.

[QtheGenius]

There's no definitive answer. Someone might not mind it, some do. I would pay less by the amount it would cost me to have that paint problem solved, and if it means a complete repaint I would pay you less by that amount.

It's a drivers car. rock chips on the hood and front bumper. It is not a show car or a garage queen. That being said, if a full re-spray is $10k, I'm not going to accept an offer that much less than asking. I would rather wait until I can find a buyer who can live with the current condition.

I don't have great pics, but when I put the car up for sale, it will have plenty of photos documenting all known flaws.

[importbanana]

I would rather wait until I can find a buyer who can live with the current condition.

If there's no other proper way to repair it besides a complete repaint then I don't see why anyone would ever pay more than market price minus repair costs, except a dumb person with money.

You're basically expecting the buyer to be stupid. People smell that and I doubt you'll sell that way.

[zellamay]

If there's no other proper way to repair it besides a complete repaint then I don't see why anyone would ever pay more than market price minus repair costs, except a dumb person with money.

You're basically expecting the buyer to be stupid. People smell that and I doubt you'll sell that way.

WOW. By that logic, one would only buy a 20+ year old car with a perfect paint job, and I suppose a perfect engine, transmission, suspension, and interior. But, most of the cars out there that are this old are not perfect. Most will not be looking for a perfect car.

[importbanana]

If a comparable m3 without paint problems costs 20k and OP wants 19k for his, then why would anyone ever buy OPs car? What do you want to do with the 1k about he paint? You'll either end up with a half assed paint repair or a 10k repaint, so total of 29k. Then you could've bought the other 20k car in the first place. That's what most people will do. Except irrational buyers. That's what OP's waiting for.

[nick325xit 5spd]

The short answer is that there is no bigger price variable for this sort of vehicle than paint condition. Paint condition is the hardest (most expensive) single thing to fix. (OK, setting aside under car rust issues. But you won't find many cars with nice paint and a lot of rust these days.)

I'd buy a shell with great paint over great mechanicals and bad paint any day. I can install a drivetrain and an interior easily and inexpensively. I've painted a car before and I will *never* do that again.

Edit: In terms of how much? For two mechanically great cars generally nice driver condition cars, one with great paint, one with bad paint, the car with bad paint is worth AT LEAST 25% less. Keep in mind that a halfway decent paint job costs a hell of a lot of money.

[QtheGenius]

If there's no other proper way to repair it besides a complete repaint then I don't see why anyone would ever pay more than market price minus repair costs, except a dumb person with money.

You're basically expecting the buyer to be stupid. People smell that and I doubt you'll sell that way.

that's a ballsy way of looking at this. I'm not looking for a stupid buyer, and a FULL re-spray isn't required if single panels are affected.

Show me where people repaint an entire car because the bumper has rock chips, or if you need to replace a fender, the opposite side of the car is then painted?

[QtheGenius]

I'd buy a shell with great paint over great mechanicals and bad paint any day. I can install a drivetrain and an interior easily and inexpensively. I've painted a car before and I will *never* do that again.

Edit: In terms of how much? For two mechanically great cars generally nice driver condition cars, one with great paint, one with bad paint, the car with bad paint is worth AT LEAST 25% less. Keep in mind that a halfway decent paint job costs a hell of a lot of money.

I see two different buyers, one that has the confidence to perform intense mechanical work, and those that can barely do an oil change or outsource that altogether. A clean shell doesn't attract every buyer, and a mechanically sound car with some paint issues doesn't attract all buyers.

Overall, I am getting good feedback from different perspectives from the group. I appreciate the discussion and need to think about my approach and what work/money I want to put in the car before posting it, if at all. Thanks all.

[jaysonx]

It is difficult to answer this question without photos. People have very different standards on what is acceptable and what isn't. Personally, I would look at getting the trouble areas resprayed/blended before selling if the rest of the car is in as great of shape as you indicate.

[AJLM34A]

Beneath the rear quarter windows, the clear is starting to fade/chip on that small 1/2" ledge below the rubber seal, and on the C pillars, the clear is again fading.

Without even seeing a photo of your car, I would say that it has been rear eneded and they did not remove the side quarter glass and R&R(remove and replace) the belt moldings and they stopped the blend on the C-pillars instead of taking it all the way to the A-pillar.

*I forgot the E36 coupe does not have a removeable painted plastic trim along the outside of the roof line that would separate it from the quarter like the E46 coupe does. It would make sense to stop the blend in the C-pillar area.

[zellamay]

I see two different buyers, one that has the confidence to perform intense mechanical work, and those that can barely do an oil change or outsource that altogether. A clean shell doesn't attract every buyer, and a mechanically sound car with some paint issues doesn't attract all buyers.

Overall, I am getting good feedback from different perspectives from the group. I appreciate the discussion and need to think about my approach and what work/money I want to put in the car before posting it, if at all. Thanks all.

Right, different buyers. I've seen guys buy a car because the mechanics were great, but the body looked horrible. I've seen guys buy a car because it had a perfect body, but with questionable mechanics. For me (only one person), the purpose of these cars is to have fun driving them, not to look at.

[importbanana]

that's a ballsy way of looking at this. I'm not looking for a stupid buyer, and a FULL re-spray isn't required if single panels are affected.

Show me where people repaint an entire car because the bumper has rock chips, or if you need to replace a fender, the opposite side of the car is then painted?

Why do you mention rock chips now when the major thing is bad clearcoat? How do you want to repair bad clearcoat on a massive panel like the one below the quarter windows on a coupe? You can kind of spray it and then fade the new sprayed clearcoat out but you'll always see a difference, and I would never ever accept that on my car, because I don't like that personally. That would be a case for a total repaint in my eyes. But you might find a buyer who has a different opinion.

[QtheGenius]

Why do you mention rock chips now when the major thing is bad clearcoat? How do you want to repair bad clearcoat on a massive panel like the one below the quarter windows on a coupe? You can kind of spray it and then fade the new sprayed clearcoat out but you'll always see a difference, and I would never ever accept that on my car, because I don't like that personally. That would be a case for a total repaint in my eyes. But you might find a buyer who has a different opinion.

I enjoy the banter, I do, but I see that if you are trying to buy a car, you are looking for a perfect exterior, and you are able to work beneath the skin. If that is the case, then you won't be interested in my car. But you're one person, and you aren't my target demographic. I'm not looking for dumb/stupid buyers either. Yes, I don't have pictures to show the current state, and hopefully i'll have time over this holiday break to take some, but any buyer will see this issue up front. It isn't a cracked sub-frame or bad wiring that I'm trying to hide.

Looking back at all of this, I'm not sure what I was expecting as a response to my first post, but the responses provided have made me think in a different way, and approach my concern from new perspectives, and I'm glad for that.

[scoobiedoo2029]

color is a big factor in paint condition. clearcoat hazing on a white car isnt as noticeable as it is on a black car. an its harder to see minor body dents. and any issues with a good cosmos black car stand out like a flashlight in the face. but ive seen worn out cosmos cars that have faded paint and dont look bad since the fading masks the issues in comparison to how insane perfect black paint shows everything.


people do amazing things restoring paint. locating the individual with the skill is the issue.

[nick325xit 5spd]

Right, different buyers. I've seen guys buy a car because the mechanics were great, but the body looked horrible. I've seen guys buy a car because it had a perfect body, but with questionable mechanics. For me (only one person), the purpose of these cars is to have fun driving them, not to look at.

Yeah, but the thing is that the guys buying the cars with great mechanicals and a beat body are guys who are looking for the best deal for a driver car that they can beat on. They aren't looking to pay up for that car. The point is that a beat body and great mechanicals or a great body and crap mechanicals are worth pretty similar amounts. Either way, it's MUCH less than a car that's in great shape all around.

[petro55]

Actually just had my 95 bumpers, hood, trunk painted from clear coat failing. Turns out my fender paint is faded so you can see a mismatch. Just paid $4k and will likely need another 2-3k to finish it up. Add in new black trim.

[notMpowered]

4K for 4 panels and they couldn’t match the paint, or blend properly. They should be doing it again or you should be doing a chargeback on your credit card.

[scoobiedoo2029]

4K for 4 panels and they couldn’t match the paint, or blend properly. They should be doing it again or you should be doing a chargeback on your credit card.


body shop conversations start at $1000 an get nothing done. there are rando good shops out there but on the whole this industry is complete junk and impossible to navigate to get the quality of work you want, at any price. for every good shop there is 20 questionable ones and 2 ungodly terrible ones that stay in buisness. for example, there is a maaco by me that will do high end work somewhere near me, ive seen the results and its a serious WTF moment, the big clean shops are absolutely terrible and insufferable to deal with, and cant be trusted with a vehicles contents...

$4k in 2021 sounds perfectly fair for work not done with a paint brush honestly, especially if its presentable and dosnt have overspray and painted tape all over.

[notMpowered]

4k is totally a fair price, but not for shit work. I’m in Canada where everything starts at a billion dollars and I’ve had things painted by one of the best shops in town and things MATCH. If they didn’t, they know they’d need to blend. I totally understand good work costs money, but it better be done right.
Agreed the industry as a whole is disastrous though. I’ve had plenty of experiences that were not like the ones I’ve had with the shop I deal with now, but clarity up front has been good to just have shops tell me they aren’t interested instead of me paying for trash.
2 bumpers and two I’ve the easiest panels to paint should be in the $2500 range for a spray and pray. My wing and nose panel were a quarter of what he paid for top notch work.

[scoobiedoo2029]

4k is totally a fair price, but not for shit work. I’m in Canada where everything starts at a billion dollars and I’ve had things painted by one of the best shops in town and things MATCH. If they didn’t, they know they’d need to blend. I totally understand good work costs money, but it better be done right.
Agreed the industry as a whole is disastrous though. I’ve had plenty of experiences that were not like the ones I’ve had with the shop I deal with now, but clarity up front has been good to just have shops tell me they aren’t interested instead of me paying for trash.
2 bumpers and two I’ve the easiest panels to paint should be in the $2500 range for a spray and pray. My wing and nose panel were a quarter of what he paid for top notch work.

i get that but shit work is very open for personal opinion. and photos can over or under exaggerate paint quality issues. its the hardest thing in the automotive world to communicate condition and expectations.

basically it seems there is a 20k+ rule for 2010era $10k examples. but a 30k rule for a sorted car.

[petro55]

4K for 4 panels and they couldn’t match the paint, or blend properly. They should be doing it again or you should be doing a chargeback on your credit card.

I am working with a reputable shop, the top of the fenders where the sun was hitting is lighter than the side of fenders.

That is me being picky and without respraying the hood I could not have anticipated that small mismatch.

When I purchased my car I knew it needed this done. The previous owner priced it roughly $5k lower.

It was a west coast 1 owner 100k miles, BMW enthusiast, paid $10.5 summer 2021.


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[blckstrm]

I am working with a reputable shop, the top of the fenders where the sun was hitting is lighter than the side of fenders.

That is me being picky and without respraying the hood I could not have anticipated that small mismatch.

When I purchased my car I knew it needed this done. The previous owner priced it roughly $5k lower.

It was a west coast 1 owner 100k miles, BMW enthusiast, paid $10.5 summer 2021.


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$10.5k for 100k miles in 2021 is an absolute steal - that's not even half price. $5k off still should have been $15-17k. That's a killer deal.

Overall, I could not be in more agreement on finding a good paint shop. I have several little paint issues I've decided to just live with since finding a good place is such a crap shoot.

[Gene V]

I have several little paint issues I've decided to just live with since finding a good place is such a crap shoot.

Same here...

[blckstrm]

Same here...

Luckily POR15 is black, so I've just put a dab on bare metal and haven't had any rust issues

[pizzaman09]

I went the route of buying a cheap rusty e36 M3 and had it fixed up professionally. To line it out, in 2018 I purchased a 129k mile 1999 coupe, Alpine White over Sand Beige for $8,000. The car needed a re-ballanced drive shaft and had rust bad enough to require a new trunk lid and a bunch of work around the tail lights and under the trunk lid piece. The drive shaft cost $450 to replace and the paint job and trunk lid replacement was done for $3,500 by an excellent small independent shop that does all the classic Euro cars in the area. Over all, I ended up spending very close to my estimation of what the car would have been worth had I found a clean one that didn't need paint work.

I still battle rust with the car, but it is my own darn fault for daily driving it in the heavily salted snow belt all winter long.

People are generally pretty good at figuring out what a car should be worth. If it just needs the clear coat touched up in an area, there should be a shop that can blend and re spray the effected area without shooting the whole car.

[RND1]

I'm highly considering putting my M3/2/5 up for sale. The interior is damn good with a few flaws, and tasteful engine/performance mods, all of which can be unbolted and retuned to stock, are in good condition. The main issue is the paint condition. Beneath the rear quarter windows, the clear is starting to fade/chip on that small 1/2" ledge below the rubber seal, and on the C pillars, the clear is again fading. Considering from a driving perspective the car is exactly what you want in the car, how much does the less than total quarter square foot of affected paint depreciate the cars value?

I have a '98.5 Estoril that has some small scratches on the roof. Problem is to paint the roof, you have to do the C pillars, quarters, and blend into the doors. I was quoted $7500 to do that pre-Covid - who knows now with all the nutty pricing on everything. Full respray quote was $12k to $15k. That used to be the value of the car, so I've just left it alone and continue to enjoy the it. Some day, I'll do a full respray when I have the time to take everything apart before delivering it to the bodyshop.

Get some estimates for repair from your local bodyshops and figure that into your sale price. As others have said, pics would help.

[reed92021]

I'm new and dont know how to start a thread here so I am replying to yours, sorry in advance.

I have a 2010 650 azurschwart blue / black. The clearcoat scratches easy ans is really scratched. Can I have a painter sand and apply new clearcoat over the old?

Every time they detail they just claybar or sand the cuurent soft clearcoat and it microscratches up in a few months.

Thanks for any input.