M62TUB44 Crank Position Sensor Relocation

[Gazzed07]

Hi all,


Has anyone had any success finding a diy or writeup on the task of relocating the CPS to the forward crank pulley (like on the m60's) in order to use a clutch combo that doesn't need to read off the flywheel timing teeth? It's time for this car to get a twin/triple-disk, however I refuse to pay 5-6k for VAC's street multi-plate kit. OS Giken offers one for the M5 for around 2k, which is much more reasonable.

Thanks in advance.

[JimLev]

You would need to machine a disc with teeth and attach it to the crank pulley. It’s doable but at what cost?
Philly98540 has a twin disc clutch setup on his 16PSI S/C 540. Maybe he will see this and rely.
Why do you think you need a triple disc, you running more than 16 PSI?

[Gazzed07]

You would need to machine a disc with teeth and attach it to the crank pulley. It’s doable but at what cost?
Philly98540 has a twin disc clutch setup on his 16PSI S/C 540. Maybe he will see this and rely.
Why do you think you need a triple disc, you running more than 16 PSI?

That's what I was thinking, or see if the M60 pulley is compatible (since the e38 uses both styles according to realoem). Could it possibly be as simple as swapping pullies and fabricating a bracket to hold the CPS?

I'd love to find one that is compatible with this setup and save me the headache, but cant justify the costs of VAC's. I also have a CNC in-house so costs wouldnt be terrible. And yes, shooting for around that ballpark and hate the limited drivability of every single disk I've driven in a semi-high power car.

[Gazzed07]

You would need to machine a disc with teeth and attach it to the crank pulley. It’s doable but at what cost?<br>
Philly98540 has a twin disc clutch setup on his 16PSI S/C 540. Maybe he will see this and rely.<br>
Why do you think you need a triple disc, you running more than 16 PSI?<br>
<br>


That's what I was thinking, or see if the M60 pulley is compatible (since the e38 uses both styles according to realoem). Could it possibly be as simple as swapping pullies and fabricating a bracket to hold the CPS?<br><br>I'd love to find one that is compatible with this setup and save me the headache, but cant justify the costs of VAC's. I also have a CNC in-house so costs wouldnt be terrible. And yes, shooting for around that ballpark and hate the limited drivability of every single disk I've driven in a semi-high power car.

[philly98540]

I have the UUC twin disk in mine for many years now. It works good. Pricey, but when I bought it, it was the best choice if you wanted a stock like pedal effort but good power handling. Not sure if there is anything better out there now.

The engagement is good and almost like stock, but it is a little different and takes a couple drives to learn how it likes to engage. Adding a pedal stop is very helpful. The clutch is strong and does not slip with my modified set up. The only downside is the cost and I get some screech once in a while if I engage it in a middling RPM. Usual casual easy going traffic type starts it does not do it, but if you engage at like 2500 to 3000 rpms you get the screech. On super aggressive high RPM launches, it does not do it. Must be some high freq chatter or something in the sandwich of plates that are in it. I have the organic discs. I'm not sure why it does this and UUC is like huh, "your the only one" type crap. Overall I am happy with it and not sure what else is out there that would be nice and street-able and take high power. Deleting the CPS off the flywheel may open up some more choices.

What's your power and torque numbers your shooting for? The stock M5 clutch work pretty well and bolts directly to the 540 Flywheel. It held pretty good for me until I increased the boost some more.

[Gazzed07]

Pretty much trying to follow in your footsteps with testing the boundaries of stock block before building it or going LS, but at least hoping for 600whp+ range if not more, but playing it by ear. I don't mind multi-plate drivability at all, since I've spent a considerable amount of time in high hp evo's which are notoriously finnicky with twins/triples. It's only being built as a rare/nice weather weekend toy and eventually a 1/2 mile car. From what the evo crowd has come up with, the screech is believed to be from the clutch fighting itself to get momentum if rpms are low and less torque is provided. Again, thats just a belief, not proven per se.

I'll have to look into the UUC kit a bit more, but I've heard some weird reviews and negative experiences with their company (hence the idea of the CPS relocation since I love and trust Giken products to the moon), and seeing as UUC is sisters with SPEC (iirc), and having had a handful of bad experiences with them on a few of my previous cars, it has made me a bit nervous to commit to em again, but that's really good to hear. I'll look into it for sure. Wasn't there a rep from UUC on this forum a bit ago offering the kit for a discounted rate?

[JimLev]

If your looking for 600+whp you’d be better off using an LS engine. The LS3 (6.2L) I have is good for 900+ at the crank with stock internals using a turbo.
You probably won’t find many LS3’s in the junkyard, however the LS2 (6.0L) version are in a ton of pickups and SUV’s. Around these parts you can pick one up for less than $500.

[RosieE39]

Wrong post, sorry.

[Gazzed07]

If your looking for 600+whp you’d be better off using an LS engine. The LS3 (6.2L) I have is good for 900+ at the crank with stock internals using a turbo.
You probably won’t find many LS3’s in the junkyard, however the LS2 (6.0L) version are in a ton of pickups and SUV’s. Around these parts you can pick one up for less than $500.

That is my intention in the long run. Turbo LQ4 (iron 6.0) build in the 4-digit power range, but while building that motor, I'd like to test the limits of the M62. I haven't found one below ~$1500 in my area unfortunately, but I'm still on the prowl.

[philly98540]

I have around 525 WHP in my M62 with the SC'er cranked up to 16 psi, intercooler, and meth spray pre and post SC'er. I think the M62 needs more cam to go more IMO. The boost can get you so far, but eventually the engine needs more breathing to get more power. I think the ring gaps would need to be opened up to go to 600 WHP as well.

Im interested to see what clutches you find for the M62. Keep this updated. Thanks.

[Gazzed07]

I've been following your build for the past year or so of owning the car. I'm not opposed to doing "budget-friendly" options to make it hit that sweet spot, but the 35k in parts that I priced out from VAC just makes keeping this for big power unrealistic. lol VAC's stage 3 heads/cam are definitely on the list though a bit up the road.

I've been searching for the better part of 6-8 months, and have ended up at either VAC, UUC, or modifying CPS pickup and then the options are practically limitless. My other option is going with a built 6L80 with an adaptor plate from a shop outside of ATL if I wanted to keep it auto (which it is currently). Independent TCU, standalone, and CPS relocate would make it possible, and still keep it in the same price range of doing just the UUC and rest of manual conversion.

[JimLev]

The 6L80 is a big tranny, check the dimensions to make sure it will fit. The 4L70 is also one to consider.
I went with a 4L65e with my LS3.

[Gazzed07]

The 6L80 is a big tranny, check the dimensions to make sure it will fit. The 4L70 is also one to consider.
I went with a 4L65e with my LS3.

The shop that I'd be having do the swap/programming has a nasty 6L80 swapped e39 M5, so I assume he's figured out how to get everything to line up properly. I'd thought about a 4Lxx but would prefer more gears.

[Gazzed07]

UPDATE: Still no further information about the crank pulley compatibility of the m60 onto the m62tu, so I may just have to buy one and try it out. Also, it's come to my attention from another forum member that OS Giken DOES offer a twin-disk for the 540 on a "call in" availability only. Waiting for them to respond.

If the auto-swap and relocation turn out to be too much headache, I'll gladly go for the manual swap. (It was already a strong consideration before now)

[Gazzed07]

Triple post update:

Clutchmasters offers any of their twin disc setups for the 540 as well that works with the factory CPS location. They don't advertise it online, but since they make everything in house, they have the option to do so. I ordered the FX850 STRAPPED for $2700 to my door. We'll see how it looks when it gets here.

[JimLev]

Hope that isn’t one of their puck style clutch disc.
Geargrinder had a puck clutch disc in his 540, it didn’t last long IIRC. I drove his car and had to take it easy with the go pedal or it would slip.

[wagons ho]

The m60 crank pulley is a direct swap.
Don't make me dredge my brain as to why you cannot use the factory m60 pickup to trigger the m62 dme, but something, something and the tooth count is different.

[philly98540]

Post up some pics of the new clutch when you get it. I’d like to see how it compares to my UUC.

[Gazzed07]

Jim- Here's a few that were on their site, one of which breaks down the components. Kinda neat.

Wagons ho- From the very little information I've found, some have said the accuracy of the readings are drastically reduced. Not sure if that's relative to the teeth.

Philly- Surely will do! Lead time is 2-3 weeks since it's a bespoke unit

https://imgur.com/FIXVF8W

[wagons ho]

Counted m60 crank pulley triggers, 58 with double gap.
Hall effect vs inductive pickup? Don't know how you could convert to give the dme the correct signal.
M60 pulley is a slight underdrive compared to m62.

[wagons ho]

There are universal 60-2 crank trigger discs that look like an easy way to make a pulley/ hub sandwich. If you want a m60 one pm me.

[Gazzed07]

I believe the one member who I'm thinking of who relocated the trigger was running a standalone as well. M62 swapped e30 iirc. Since I've found this clutch now, I don't really need to relocate anymore, but I may experiment with it on one of our shop cars in the future.

[Gazzed07]

Don't quite know what you are planning, but I'll leave this here.
688459

Are those manifold adaptors available anywhere or are they one-off?

[Gazzed07]

Slight update. Received my clutch yesterday. Looking at another 2 weeks or so before my trans swap is done. Hopefully.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210501/c9220af5739a6e33e44f29e5f5237093.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[BimmerBreaker]

Part of why BMW moved the sensor is their I6's were shearing woodruff keys and the crank hubs were spinning freely. The V8's didn't have as horrible of harmonics (and they don't spin as fast) so I don't think that issue is as prevalent on those motors (they also don't tend to be driven as hard). But it's pretty clear why taking the crank reading off a crank hub which is spinning freely is a bad idea. The crank is also more flexible than most people realize, measuring it near the output (flywheel) gives more consistent readings, which is part of where the "reliability" of the reading comes into play.

I've seen too many loose crank hub bolts to be installing any lightweight flywheels myself. I know, I know, I'm a boring "stock" guy. My advice at the bare minimum though is to get the flywheel/pressure plate assembly balanced before installation... :)


I have around 525 WHP in my M62 with the SC'er cranked up to 16 psi, intercooler, and meth spray pre and post SC'er. I think the M62 needs more cam to go more IMO. The boost can get you so far, but eventually the engine needs more breathing to get more power. I think the ring gaps would need to be opened up to go to 600 WHP as well.

Im interested to see what clutches you find for the M62. Keep this updated. Thanks.
Yup, M62's seem to make up to about that power figure, pretty reliably, with some boost shoving air down it's throat. But the head and cams become a restriction beyond that point pretty quickly. Don't people say M60 heads flow a bit more? I'm not too well versed on the M6x stuff - I know mixing and matching is popular, this engine flows more here, that block is more displacement, etc...

S62 also received ported engine heads. However they changed the sensor location on those didn't they? Weren't those closer to M60 heads as far as sensor location? So I'm not sure you could just slap those on an M62 and call it a day but those heads are ported over the M62's. Those plus some more aggressive cams would likely yield some notable gains

[philly98540]

Slight update. Received my clutch yesterday. Looking at another 2 weeks or so before my trans swap is done. Hopefully.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210501/c9220af5739a6e33e44f29e5f5237093.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Looks great. Post up some pics of the layers when you install it. Let us know how it works. Still a pricey piece, but we gotta pay the tax as our cars are an odd ball in the clutch world. Twin disc seems to be the only route that will hold high power with close to stock pedal efforts and feel.

[philly98540]

Yup, M62's seem to make up to about that power figure, pretty reliably, with some boost shoving air down it's throat. But the head and cams become a restriction beyond that point pretty quickly. Don't people say M60 heads flow a bit more? I'm not too well versed on the M6x stuff - I know mixing and matching is popular, this engine flows more here, that block is more displacement, etc...

S62 also received ported engine heads. However they changed the sensor location on those didn't they? Weren't those closer to M60 heads as far as sensor location? So I'm not sure you could just slap those on an M62 and call it a day but those heads are ported over the M62's. Those plus some more aggressive cams would likely yield some notable gains

I'm not sure if the M60 heads have better flow, but I hear that the cams are a bit bigger and allow better flow. I'm also not sure on the sensor locations on the S62 vs M60. Might as well just go full S62 if changing heads IMO. Maybe some of the guys that have more experience will add in some clarity. I've only had this M62 and no other BMW engines unfortunately.

[Gazzed07]

Looks great. Post up some pics of the layers when you install it. Let us know how it works. Still a pricey piece, but we gotta pay the tax as our cars are an odd ball in the clutch world. Twin disc seems to be the only route that will hold high power with close to stock pedal efforts and feel.

Will do. It's a shame when (coming from the chevy world) I could get a badass twin for around a grand. I'd thought a twin was overkill, but having had some terrible drivability single discs in the past, I felt this was a better, more practical, route.

Slipped a disc in my back at work last week, so it may be delayed, but maybe I can bribe a few buddies to knock it out soon enough.