Advice on E39 manual purchase

[dolucasi]

In the market for a E39 manual trans.
100K - 150K miles

I am a DIY repair owner and original owner of late model auto BMW's (diesel and gasser) and a manual W201 190E.
So this will be a first used car purchase in loooong time.

If you experienced owners of E39's can steer me to a good production year and an engine model I would greatly appreciate it.
4.0, 3.0, 2.8, 2.5, others. Which engine is relatively the most trouble free and easy to work on?

Thanks in advance.

[JimLev]

Welcome to the forum dolucasi.
I moved your post here.
Trouble free, they all have their problems.
We all have our own preferences, I find the 540 V8 easier to work on than the i6.

[TexasTouring]

Welcome. E39 manual is a great choice. I find the I6 to be a little less intimidating since it was used in higher volume models (3 series) so there is more documentation of DIYs online. Then again, the 4.4 V8 isn't terrible in this regard either.

As far as reliability goes, I would give an edge to the I6. The V8 has timing chain guides that seem to need replacing every 150k or so, which is a big DIY job, or a several thousand dollar affair at an Indy.

Some other considerations:



the I6 models have a rack and pinion for steering, whereas the V8s have a recirculating ball. Pick your poison, I like the smoothness of the V8 steering, most seem to prefer the quickness and feedback of the I6 steering
1997 and 1998 models have different engines. The 528i had the M52 engine until switching to the M52tu in 1999. The tu brought double VANOS, but the older engine has commonality with the E36 and the world of power mods and superchargers and the like, if that's your thing. The 97-98 540 had the M62 engine. The M62tu from 1999 on brought VANOS and thus another source of reliability concern
01-03 models got the cosmetic facelift, which was mainly headlights, taillights, and front bumper cover design
02+ sedans, and 03+ tourings, have automatic headlights
Dual stage airbags were introduced in 03/99 production (mid-model year). Having a dual stage car unlocks the ability to retrofit steering wheels from later M5s and M3s, which is something many like to do
2001 model year 525i cars were "decontented" and thus available in specs not seen on other years and models of E39s. Think manual climate control and manual front passenger seats. Not earth shattering, but something to look out for if you care
Older years seem to have more failures of ABS modules and Airbag (MRS) modules, often requiring rebuilding or replacement
The M54 I6 (525, 530) seems to have more problems with oil consumption than the M52/M52TU from the 528i


The market seems to think that 2003 540i M-Sport cars and 2003 530i 5-speed Sport cars are the best. I've never had either of those, but I really enjoyed a 2003 525i 5-speed Sport I had. Very fun to rev out.

Maybe more than you wanted. Good luck!

[BimmrMeUpSnotty]

My 2003 525 wagon with an M54 has the M57 aluminum valve cover conversion with a PCV system does not eat oil anymore. Win win!

[cpf9]

I would recommend a facelift ('01-'03) 530i 5-Speed Sport :-)

PS I'm intrigued by your W201 - is it a factory manual? I used to have a 2.6 auto in diamond blue, which I loved (and which I probably would still have, had I not totaled it in 2015).

[StephenVA]

E39 M5, the best of everything!
- Fun factor
- Power (TIRE SHREDDER)
- Manual trans
- Executive Sports Car (extra sound deadening) that eats Hwys
- Not for the faint hearted (operational costs, complexity, acquisition cost, etc)
- With this one you get all the E39 good parts!

[effduration]

I have 2 manual E39 I6's

One is a '99 528i 5-speed w/125k in storage
Other is an "03 530i 5-speed (was an auto, but I manual swapped it) w/410k miles. My daily driver.

I would find a factory manual 530i...more power than the 525i. The 528i of '99 and '00 used the M52TU engine which has a problematic throttle body.
The 530i may have oil consumption issues, but they can usually be managed with minor modifcations (O2 pilot, Bavarian mod) and/or a good engine flush.

Don't know your skill level or interest, but maybe you find a 530i with an overheated engine and either do a head gasket or engine replacement.
If you really wanted a project, find the perfect 530i with auto trans problems and manual swap it like I did. Its all well documented and straight forward.

[crdiscoverer]

Older years seem to have more failures of ABS modules and Airbag (MRS) modules, often requiring rebuilding or replacement


By "older years" you mean the latest E39s or the earliest? Bear in mind that the very first E39s (1995 to ~1997) have the ABS module and its electronics separated. The mainboard is not in the engine bay but under the dash, so it basically never fails because it's not exposed to the exhaust's heat.

I own a 12/96 528i which still has its original ABS module. One of the minor advantages of going with a very early model E39.

[StephenVA]

https://www.andysautosport.com/images/carbon_creations/107062_102.jpg

Heat reduction solution for ABS Unit overheating.... :)

[dolucasi]

I would recommend a facelift ('01-'03) 530i 5-Speed Sport :-)

PS I'm intrigued by your W201 - is it a factory manual? I used to have a 2.6 auto in diamond blue, which I loved (and which I probably would still have, had I not totaled it in 2015).

Mine is one of those rare (in the US) factory 2.6 manuals. I bought it from the showroom back in '89. Still enjoying it 31 years later!
Sorry to hear about your loss (total). They are fun cars to have.

[dolucasi]

Thanks for the opinions folks, I will have to weigh all your input.

I would not do a manual swap. although capable, there are plenty of E39 manuals out there.

Probably the most important to me is the maintenance and longevity for the E39 versions.
I certainly would not want a car that is burning oil. Those are generally hard to fix without a total engine rebuild. Ask me how I know....

I just want an E39 that does not have an Achilles heel that will cost an arm and a leg to fix and is a ticking time bomb.

I'm thinking a 8cyl will be a gas guzzler. But not sure compared to a 528 or a 530 to be honest.

Here is my data point. I have a 535xd (2014), brother has a 540i? (2011). Same 15 mile commute with me as he lives in the neighborhood and work is almost a mile apart.

After so many years I'm averaging 31mpg. He is barely over 15mpg. And diesel is cheaper than premium gas. So over 2x in fuel costs and for what?
0-60 in 4.9sec vs 4.4sec. I think I'm ok with the 0.5 second slower car. I'm probably faster to 30mph as the car has super low end torque.
Not to mention the sticker price on the 540 was probably a lot higher than mine.

But I digress. I just want a reliable car with a manual transmission that is fun to drive and easy to maintain when it needs work done (as in like not having to remove an engine to repair an oil pump or a water pump or something similar)

- Cheers!

[dolucasi]

Thanks for the opinions folks, I will have to weigh all your input.<br><br>I would not do a manual swap. although capable, there are plenty of E39 manuals out there.<br><br>Probably the most important to me is the maintenance and longevity for the E39 versions.<br>I certainly would not want a car that is burning oil. Those are generally hard to fix without a total engine rebuild. Ask me how I know....<br><br>I just want an E39 that does not have an Achilles heel that will cost an arm and a leg to fix and is a ticking time bomb.<br><br>I'm thinking a 8cyl will be a gas guzzler. But not sure compared to a 528 or a 530 to be honest.<br><br>Here is my data point. I have a 535xd (2014), brother has a 540i? (2011). Same 15 mile commute with me as he lives in the neighborhood and work is almost a mile apart.<br><br>After so many years I'm averaging 31mpg. He is barely over 15mpg. And diesel is cheaper than premium gas. So over 2x in fuel costs and for what?<br>0-60 in 4.9sec vs 4.4sec. I think I'm ok with the 0.5 second slower car. I'm probably faster to 30mph as the car has super low end torque.<br>Not to mention the sticker price on the 540 was probably a lot higher than mine.<br><br>But I digress. I just want a reliable car with a manual transmission that is fun to drive and easy to maintain when it needs work done (as in like not having to remove an engine to repair an oil pump or a water pump or something similar)<br><br>- Cheers!

[ThaDoubleJ]

...

The market seems to think that 2003 540i M-Sport cars and 2003 530i 5-speed Sport cars are the best....

I agree, 03 M sport is the best, but I'm biased. I get about 27 MPG on the highway, and with about 1800 miles on the clock since purchase I've only broken 27 dollars worth of stuff. Wait, 41 dollars worth of stuff. Planning on installing $8500 worth of stuff this spring though...

[Sleepyhead97]

97 2.8l most trouble free and durable. No extra stuf. No disa. Single vanos. Iron block. No oil burn issues. Good engine.

[TexasTouring]

[/LIST]

By "older years" you mean the latest E39s or the earliest? Bear in mind that the very first E39s (1995 to ~1997) have the ABS module and its electronics separated. The mainboard is not in the engine bay but under the dash, so it basically never fails because it's not exposed to the exhaust's heat.

I own a 12/96 528i which still has its original ABS module. One of the minor advantages of going with a very early model E39.

Great point. It's the cars from the early years with the integrated module under the hood that I think are the trickiest. So 98, 99, and 00. But ABS module rebuild service maxes out around $500, and is easy to swap out.

On the MRS module side, it's the MRS3 module that is the tricky one, which I think was 3/99 build thru early '02 cars. That module has a failure mode which typically requires either replacement of the MRS3 module ($150+ on ebay) or retrofitting and coding an MRS4 module and MRS4 side impact sensors ($75 on ebay, and gives you a more reliable system). Not too expensive, but a pain to get under the console and seats to do the job.

- - - Updated - - -

To the OP: Sounds like you'd be happy with any I6 e39 really. The differences between M52, M52TU, and M54 engined cars are pretty marginal. My approach would be to find the best-kept one you can in a color combination that you like, maybe with some cool options as a bonus.

[Sleepyhead97]

M54 engine is an oil hog. That engine should have been recalled

[dolucasi]

Thank you for all the input folks. Vanos is kind'a new to me though it probably exists in my late model 4 and 5 series.
I'm trying to complete this table. Can anyone of you help me fill it?



Model
525i
528i
528i
530i
535i
535i
540i
540i
M


Config
I6
I6
I6
I6
V8
V8
V8
V8
V8


Engine
M54B25
M52B28
M52TUB28
M54B30
M62B35
M62TUB35
M62B44
M62TUB44
M62B50


VANOS
?
Single
?
?
?
?
?
?
?


Prod Yr
00-03
95-98
99-01
00-03
96-98
99-00
95-98
99-03
99-03




I understand there is single vs double and on the single there is 2 position vs continuously varying vanos.
Are any one of these variances a pain when the engine ages?

Also I did not hear much about the V8 engine options, any version to be avoided there?

[effduration]

Can anyone of you help me fill it?



Model
525i
528i
528i
530i
535i
535i
540i
540i
M


Config
I6
I6
I6
I6
V8
V8
V8
V8
V8


Engine
M54B25
M52B28
M52TUB28
M54B30
M62B35
M62TUB35
M62B44
M62TUB44
M62B50


VANOS
Double
Single
Double
Double
?
?
?
?
?


Prod Yr
01-03
95-98
99-00
01-03
96-98
99-00
95-98
99-03
99-03





See edits

[R Shaffner]

Check this out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M62 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M62)

[TexasTouring]

Adding to the good work of effduration above:


Thank you for all the input folks. Vanos is kind'a new to me though it probably exists in my late model 4 and 5 series.
I'm trying to complete this table. Can anyone of you help me fill it?



Model
525i
528i
528i
530i
535i
535i
540i
540i
M


Config
I6
I6
I6
I6
V8
V8
V8
V8
V8


Engine
M54B25
M52B28
M52TUB28
M54B30
M62B35
M62TUB35
M62B44
M62TUB44
S62B50


VANOS
Double
Single
Double
Double
None
Single
None
Single
Double


Model Yr
01-03
96-98
99-00
01-03
96-98
99-00
95-98
99-03
99-03



I understand there is single vs double and on the single there is 2 position vs continuously varying vanos.
Are any one of these variances a pain when the engine ages?

Also I did not hear much about the V8 engine options, any version to be avoided there?

For V8s in the US, since we did not get the 535, it's really a question of whether you want the TU engine (with VANOS) or not. The non-TU will be eliminate the seemingly inevitable VANOS failure, but my sense is that all of the timing chain issues persist.

[BimmrMeUpSnotty]

Actually, the older M62’s chain guides have been known to out last the M62TU chain guides.

[TexasTouring]

Actually, the older M62’s chain guides have been known to out last the M62TU chain guides.

Good to know. OP: I would trust Snotty on this one over me 10 times out of 10.

[BimmrMeUpSnotty]

Hey now, I am human, and a comedicly flawed one at that! Not perfect, but I have read about this, and luckily, it is still within reach of my memory! All my past V8 E39’s have been facelift ones, so that is why I remember this, never having owned the M62 E39. And as Tony Montana said it best, “I always tell the truth.... Even when I lie.”

[R Shaffner]

Well, I've had an M62 and an M62TU. Guides went out on both at 195,000.

[Mike WW]

Having had a 97 528i, a 2000 528it and a 2002 525it I would avoid a 525. While all the 2001+ 6 cylinder cars are prone to oil consumption, it's often controllable but the short stoke 525 just doesn't have the grunt I'd like. Now these have all been autos, so keep that in mind, but I think it would still apply. One thing that can be slightly deceptive with the 525 is test driving I tend to be either just cruising or romping on it to see what it does. But it's the lack of torque in everyday driving is where it's felt the most, not in a WOT run say passing someone on a two lane road. VANOS seals may well be needed in any of them, and can make anywhere from a modest difference to a huge improvement, but it's more intimidating than a difficult or expensive fix.

I'll personally be in the market for a 530 M/T if this pandemic ever ends, if that says anything. But the 2.8s are perfectly adequate.

[Twistytee]

My ‘03 is a 525i in Touring flavor. It is a manual. I’ve also owned an ‘03 530i Sport in manual. While I agree the 2.5l is underpowered/under torqued for the weight of the car, I don’t notice it in street driving. BMW put a 3.23 diff in the manual Touring vs the 2.93 in the 530i. This makes it noticeably quicker in the lower gears and I didn’t notice a big deficit over the 530i. And the 2.5l M54 likes to rev. You can really ring out the gears where I felt the 3.0l M54 prompted for earlier shifts. Unfortunately the combination of a shorter diff and a 5 speed with 1:1 top gear is high rpm at highway speeds. I’m at 3.5k @ 80 mph which isn’t ideal for long distances.

[dolucasi]

Thanks again guys. The picture is clearer though still a bit muddy for me still.
Here is an updated table, 535 taken out since it was not available in US.
I take it the TU engines are turbo. If someone can confirm that. Any maintenance issues with Turbo?
Not that the turbo stopped me from buying the BMW's I have but they are new not 20 year old cars.
I integrated the comments into the table. If anyone is willing to fill in more boxes that would be great.

I'm leaning towards a non-oil burning late model 530 or a 540, tell me why I should not buy either one.
In California, 540 manuals are more available than other models for some reason so I do not want to rule them out.
This timing chain guide work mentioned: does it require the engine to be removed?

Maybe this table will help future buyers as well:



Model
528i
528it
525i
530i
540i
540it
M


Config
I6
I6
I6
I6
V8
V8
V8


Engine
M52B28
M52TUB28
M54B25
M54B30
M62B44
M62TUB44
S62B50


VANOS
Single
Double
Double
Double
None
Single
Double


Prod Yr
96-98
99-00
01-03
01-03
95-98
99-03
99-03


Positives
Iron Block
Dual AB

Dual AB

Dual AB
Dual AB


Positives
reliable ABS



reliable ABS




Positives
rely. Vanos








Concerns

Th-Body
oil burn
oil burn

timing chain
timing chain


Concerns


weak eng






Concerns


hi-hwy rpm






1995




M62B44




1996
M52B28



M62B44




1997
M52B28



M62B44




1998
M52B28



M62B44




1999

M52TUB28



M62TUB44
M62B50


2000

M52TUB28



M62TUB44
M62B50


2001


M54B25
M54B30

M62TUB44
M62B50


2002


M54B25
M54B30

M62TUB44
M62B50


2003


M54B25
M54B30

M62TUB44
M62B50

[R Shaffner]

None of the stock e39's have a turbo. For the M62TU, the TU basically means it has the addition of single VANOS (for a little more mid-range torque). All M62's need to have the timing chain guides replaced between 150,000 and 200,000 miles. The engine in the M5 is the S62.

In the 5 series, BMW started using turbos with the next model, the 535i in the e60.

At this point, the challenge is that you're not ordering these from the factory. All these will be used, probably well used. Some abused. So it's going to come down to (1) the individual car and (2) how much you want to do to it, or pay someone else to do it.

The best deals I've seen out there are the ones from enthusiasts (like some here) who have done a lot to refresh, restore, and maintain cars they really care about. Then for various reasons they decide to sell and move on. In those cases, you can get a real nice car that should be fun and pretty reliable.

When you do find one that you like, some of the details in your chart won't matter much (whether it's an M62 or M62TU, for example). It will come down to that particular example and how much you like it.

[BimmrMeUpSnotty]

TU designation stands for Technical Update.

[Twistytee]

Sage advice from R Shaffner. If I was in your shoes, go with one that has been taken care of and has maintenance records. The 530i is probably the best all arounder for ease of service, useable torque/hp, good mpg, and balance of the big inline six. But they are also becoming hardest to find in manual. I’d probably lien towards getting a 540i with records of having had the timing chains and guides done. Only because it has much better low end grunt and it’s closer in power/torque to more modern cars. But it will be more expensive to maintain if you don’t do your own work. they’re all old BMWs at this point so stuff is going to break or need TLC, regardless of drivetrain choice.

you can search this forum for threads on the timing chain work on the 540i. Engine does not have to come out but it’s a big job. And the cost is equally big unless you can do it yourself.

[dolucasi]

Thank you everyone for all the help and education on the E39. Good to now know what VANOS and TU mean.

The main purpose of this exercise (other than education) was to just eliminate a model or two that are just more headache than others. Seems that is the 525i (and is also a bit under powered)
The second purpose was to have a list of items for each model to check prior to purchasing a car.
Third being eliminating known oil burners (by design) that require an engine rebuild. With that, it will be difficult to pass smog here in CA.
If there are no other inputs, I'll start my search now. I corrected the copy and paste error I had in the list below, thanks for correcting it. Maybe someone clueless like myself in the future will use the thread and table.



Model
528i
528it
525i
530i
540i
540it
M


Config
I6
I6
I6
I6
V8
V8
V8


Engine
M52B28
M52TUB28
M54B25
M54B30
M62B44
M62TUB44
S62B50


VANOS
Single
Double
Double
Double
None
Single
Double


Prod Yr
96-98
99-00
01-03
01-03
95-98
99-03
99-03


Positives
Iron Block
Dual AB

Dual AB

Dual AB
Dual AB


Positives
rel. ABS



rel. ABS




Positives
rel. Vanos








Concerns

Th-Body
oil burn
oil burn

tim. chain
tim. chain


Concerns


weak eng






Concerns


hi-rpm






1995




M62B44




1996
M52B28



M62B44




1997
M52B28



M62B44




1998
M52B28



M62B44




1999

M52TUB28



M62TUB44
S62B50


2000

M52TUB28



M62TUB44
S62B50


2001


M54B25
M54B30

M62TUB44
S62B50


2002


M54B25
M54B30

M62TUB44
S62B50


2003


M54B25
M54B30

M62TUB44
S62B50

[BimmrMeUpSnotty]

Crap, once he gets his choice of E39, he’s gonna come in here and start a thread, just to make a chart for different brands of oil...

[dolucasi]

Crap, once he gets his choice of E39, he’s gonna come in here and start a thread, just to make a chart for different brands of oil...

He won't. I promise. He is a moderator for Benzworld and will not occupy threads for no good reason. He himself hates the oil threads. Thanks for the help BMUS!
- Cheers!

[BimmrMeUpSnotty]

Lol! Whew!

[BimmrMeUpSnotty]

Eheh,eheh,eheh...

[dolucasi]

It was BEMUS before I corrected.
Happy Friday
-Cheers!

[BimmrMeUpSnotty]

Eheh, eheh, eheh...

[computiNATEor]

Thanks for the opinions folks, I will have to weigh all your input.

I would not do a manual swap. although capable, there are plenty of E39 manuals out there.

Probably the most important to me is the maintenance and longevity for the E39 versions.
I certainly would not want a car that is burning oil. Those are generally hard to fix without a total engine rebuild. Ask me how I know....

I just want an E39 that does not have an Achilles heel that will cost an arm and a leg to fix and is a ticking time bomb.

I'm thinking a 8cyl will be a gas guzzler. But not sure compared to a 528 or a 530 to be honest.

Here is my data point. I have a 535xd (2014), brother has a 540i? (2011). Same 15 mile commute with me as he lives in the neighborhood and work is almost a mile apart.

After so many years I'm averaging 31mpg. He is barely over 15mpg. And diesel is cheaper than premium gas. So over 2x in fuel costs and for what?
0-60 in 4.9sec vs 4.4sec. I think I'm ok with the 0.5 second slower car. I'm probably faster to 30mph as the car has super low end torque.
Not to mention the sticker price on the 540 was probably a lot higher than mine.

But I digress. I just want a reliable car with a manual transmission that is fun to drive and easy to maintain when it needs work done (as in like not having to remove an engine to repair an oil pump or a water pump or something similar)

- Cheers!

I've owned 4 E39s since 2014. Currently, I have a 2001 M5.

IMO, the perfect E39 for someone who wants something easy to maintain is a 2002-2003 530i with the 5 speed manual transmission (aka 530i5). I had a 2003 BMW E39 530iA (automatic) first, then a 2002 530iA after the first was totaled, then a 2002 530i5 before the M5. The 530i5 was great. The current owner loves it.

The M54B30 will burn a little oil, yes. I found it used a quart and a half, at most, between 7500 mile oil changes. The M54 has an oil level sensor, so it will inform you when the engine is low on oil. Just throw a quart down in the spare tire well and don't worry about it. You won't have an issue passing smog because the car is OBD2, and I haven't been to a smog station in the last 5 years that sniffed the tailpipe of any of my BMWs. So as long as your "service engine soon" light is not on, you'll be fine. You can solve the oil burning two ways - replacing the piston rings, or increasing the crankcase vacuum. I would recommend doing the latter. The M57 valve cover works, as does the O2Pilot Mod.

I would not recommend the 540i or the M5. The M5 is a guzzler, and the 540i will require timing chain guide replacement if it hasn't already been done. We're starting to see more S62 timing chain guide issues, too, as these engines age. I spun a rod bearing in my S62 last year. Would not recommend.

I averaged 18mpg in my 530i automatics, and 21mpg in my 530i5. I am averaging 14.1 in the M5.

I prefer the later E39s, as they have the best luxury features. The 2002-2003 530is have automatic headlights and updated radios, as well as the more modern "high-OBC" instrument cluster. Whatever E39 you end up in, order a BlueBus for the factory stereo. The 530i has the brakes from the 540i, and is plenty quick enough.

The I6 E39s have a more modern front suspension design vs the V8 E39s. The V8 E39 apologists will come out and argue about how the lighter-effort steering box is fine and good for what it is, but the I6 steering is great. It has less mass, more communication and WAY easier serviceability.

All E39s are going to have oil leaks unless they've been religiously maintained. It's easier to work on the I6 vs the V8, with one exception - the radiator setup on the longer I6 is necessarily more compact, and more of a pain because of it.

E39s all have some degree of cooling system trouble. Use Genuine BMW thermostats. All E39s can be upgraded with an M5 radiator. It's a drop in replacement for all petrol models. All I6 E39s should be upgraded with a Stewart EMP water pump. It's way better than the factory plastic pump.

[dolucasi]

Wow, thanks for the detailed write-up NATE. Very much appreciated. Search begins now, it will take a while to find a good candidate.

[crdiscoverer]

I prefer the later E39s, as they have the best luxury features. The 2002-2003 530is have automatic headlights and updated radios, as well as the more modern "high-OBC" instrument cluster. Whatever E39 you end up in, order a BlueBus for the factory stereo. The 530i has the brakes from the 540i, and is plenty quick enough.

I would put my vote on a 530i/5 as well, but I feel the need to correct a couple of things:

1. "Updated radios" vs what older E39s had is still a piss old stereo which you will need to replace or upgrade in some way. All stock E39 stereos sound horrible (besides maybe the full M5 audio with 10" subs) and have zero modern features.
2. My '96 528i E39 comes with the high-OBC, so definitely not just a feature of the latter E39s.

As for the automatic headlights, yeah I guess it's a nice-to-have, but if the reflective coating inside the projectors is gone like in mine, then that doesn't really matter. More important is to find out if the headlights can be opened to replace the adjusters and perhaps the projectors. Most late model E39s ditched butyl for epoxy so you need to destroy the housings.

[BimmrMeUpSnotty]

I don’t care much for the auto headlight setting. Guess I’m old school, don’t need the rain sensor to turn the lights on for me. So on my ‘03 silver 525 wagon, I am still in control of the headlight switch.

[BMW540san]

I'd also agree that best overall E39 for OP is 530 5 speed manual.
I've had 540 and M5 and while I miss the HP and torque it's also noteable that those same cars will get you in trouble with law much easier than I6.
I also agree that most trouble free engine is M52 (not later M52TU).
That is why I love my S52 powered unicorn: More power than M54 while trouble free because it's close relative of M52.

[computiNATEor]

I would put my vote on a 530i/5 as well, but I feel the need to correct a couple of things:

1. "Updated radios" vs what older E39s had is still a piss old stereo which you will need to replace or upgrade in some way. All stock E39 stereos sound horrible (besides maybe the full M5 audio with 10" subs) and have zero modern features.
2. My '96 528i E39 comes with the high-OBC, so definitely not just a feature of the latter E39s.

As for the automatic headlights, yeah I guess it's a nice-to-have, but if the reflective coating inside the projectors is gone like in mine, then that doesn't really matter. More important is to find out if the headlights can be opened to replace the adjusters and perhaps the projectors. Most late model E39s ditched butyl for epoxy so you need to destroy the housings.

If you want modern features, get a BlueBus. It supports Bluetooth audio and calling, and can speak to Siri/other voice assistants. It's all I want from my Mk4 navigation equipped M5.

True, the stereos are all terrible sounding old crap, almost including the M-audio one. I'm glad my M5 has it, but it's not life changing.

BavSound offers drop-in speaker upgrades for non-M-audio cars, but you'll still want a better amp and head unit.

It's worth nothing that navigation equipped cars are more difficult to install aftermarket components; they require wiring to be run from the trunk to the dash for an aftermarket unit.

Cars from 01 and earlier can have the headlights "baked" to open them, but I'd just use a body saw and replace the lenses entirely with the DJAuto lenses for ~$150. Use an EvoX-R 2.0 projector if you want the easiest drop in, or an FX-R if you don't mind some playing to mount them.

[JimLev]

Nate, I think you mean to say cars from 01 and later have to have the headlights baked open them?

[computiNATEor]

Nate, I think you mean to say cars from 01 and later have to have the headlights baked open them?

No, I meant what I said, but what I said wasn't super clear, haha.

E39s from 02 and 03 have permanently sealed headlights; they cannot be opened by any means without destroying the headlight lens, making adjuster replacement difficult and projector replacement impossible.
01 and earlier cars have headlights with butyl (01) or, in MY00 and older, rubber seals that can be baked (or heated with a heat gun for the butyl) to open them without destroying the lens.

[StephenVA]

So now that these cars have been on the market for 20 years, we are still arguing over which model year and engine is "the best"?
ok I will play. Buy multiple versions and you can have a dog hauler, a hwy cruiser, and a executive sport model all with the same DIY issues, challenges and rewards. Simple
For those buying a single model, the quick easy answer is the same on any car purchase. What will be your usage 90%of the time? Buy a car that fits that model of life. Don't turn your back seat into a lumber yard transport vehicle. Rent the truck and just buy a minivan. Yep your balls don't fall off when you drive one. E39 don't make a great race car. Can you make it faster and stop better? You bet.

More cars are trashed by idiot owners who think, yes that tree will fit in there mentality. A vehicle built for the intended purpose will go a long way to make your life easy.

Now OE I am off to look at another purchase, tow vehicle!

[dolucasi]

Any thoughts on a '99 528it 5-speed Wagon at 150K miles? As advised I'm searching for a well sorted car and just avoiding 525i but leaning towards 6cyl for my needs. It is a bit pricey. The only negative posted was the throttle body may need to be replaced.

[computiNATEor]

Any thoughts on a '99 528it 5-speed Wagon at 150K miles? As advised I'm searching for a well sorted car and just avoiding 525i but leaning towards 6cyl for my needs. It is a bit pricey. The only negative posted was the throttle body may need to be replaced.

Slowish for me, but good cars. Rear air suspension (SLS) can have leaks (if equipped). The M52/M52tu doesn’t burn oil like the M54 does.

I’d say wait, and get the best one you can. Don’t rush into a purchase :)

[dolucasi]

Thanks. It does have air suspension and seems to be changed out with some suspension that is slammed during parking.
Not my thing but I can live with it. I have not seen it but is local. Asking price way high but how much should one cost in CA?

Not crazy about the gold trim interior either, seems to have cheapened the look.

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/d/los-gatos-bmw-wagon-e39-touring-manual/7270583024.html

[computiNATEor]

Thanks. It does have air suspension and seems to be changed out with some suspension that is slammed during parking.
Not my thing but I can live with it. I have not seen it but is local. Asking price way high but how much should one cost in CA?

Not crazy about the gold trim interior either, seems to have cheapened the look.

https://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/d/los-gatos-bmw-wagon-e39-touring-manual/7270583024.html

Stay far, far away. Modified E39s, especially ones with mileage issues like that one? No way, Jose.

That's a $4000 car at best, IMO.

[StephenVA]

There are a ton of cars on the market at any given time. Buy the lowest mileage one you can find that comes with PROVEN owner maintenance records. Have a trusted BMW independent shop perform a complete pre-purchase inspection to include body, drive train, electronics (Pull the codes), interior, etc.

As mentioned above, Run from moded ones as you have no idea of what was done and who did the repairs/changes. These cars are at their 5th and final owner levels, so buyer beware of over heated, run hard put away wet ones.

You can always upgrade tire and wheel packages as all E39 models had lots of choices. 15" to 18" staggered (wider in rear). If you going with a 6 banger I would stay with all four wheels being the same so you can rotate them.

Find the vehicle of choice in the 2003 range will give you all the updates that were installed and it will be 5 years newer than any '98 model!

[dolucasi]

Thanks Stephen and Nate, so the same principles that apply to old Mercedes apply here. Records, records, records and no major mods.

I am tempted to look at this one just because I actually considered buying one new in 2002 (same color) and opted for the larger W210 Mercedes station wagon (it was for my wife and she wanted the larger one with all wheel drive) that ended being totaled no thanks to my next door neighbor's teenage son. That is another story..... thankfully no one was hurt.

So I was thinking maybe I can change the choice nearly 20 years later with another Wagon (the correct one). I do not own a wagon or an SUV so this would have been a good addition.

There will be others coming around, each week another e39 shows up on CL around me.

[Twistytee]

If you’re now leaning towards the Touring model, I wouldn’t rule out the 525it for the reasons Stephen mentioned. It will be a newer LCI car with the related updates, plus the 528/525 was the only way to get a Touring in a manual. Chances are you’ll mostly find them in auto, but that pairs well with its intended use plus opens more cars for consideration (both V8 & I6). I don’t have any noticeable oil blow by on the M54b25 in my car and none was noted in the ownership history. Stay on top of the CCV and crank case vacuum and these can be durable motors.

[dolucasi]

Thanks Twisty.
A couple of questions:
(1) What is included in the touring model and how does it differ from the sport package for the E39?
(2) Is the crankcase vacuum an adjustable thing in these engines? So the PCV system has this feature?

[Twistytee]

Touring is BMW speak for wagon. In the US, they only came in 528i/525i or 540i. Unfortunately we didn’t get the 530i in the wagon so any you see here configured this way have been swapped. Some owners have modded the I6 wagons (along with installing the Getrag 6 speed manual for true overdrive) since it provides a better matched drivetrain to the heavier wagon plus retains the Lighter front aluminum subframe and associated rack and pinion steering. All Tourings were called “sport wagons” in the US market, but not all came with the sport package.

Regarding the crank case vacuum, it’s not really adjustable. But if you don’t maintain a functioning CCV (BMW’s PVC system) you can create positive crank case volume and force leaks through the rear main seal. These cars also like to leak at the valve cover gasket, oil pan gasket and oil filter housing gasket. So sometimes oil blow by is really just leaks from these areas. The M54 gets a bad rap for piston ring design which promotes oil blow by. It’s frequently worse in the 3.0l due to the thinner rings designed to reduce friction and increase HP (but at the expense of oil consumption). Some get by with adding little to no additional oil per OCI and some have to add as much as a quart every 1500 miles. Really depends on how well the car has been maintained plus keeping CCV up to snuff and avoiding vacuum leaks. You can also do a search here for installing a M56 valve cover on the M54 to take advantage of the improved CCV design.

[computiNATEor]

Thanks Twisty.
A couple of questions:
(1) What is included in the touring model and how does it differ from the sport package for the E39?
(2) Is the crankcase vacuum an adjustable thing in these engines? So the PCV system has this feature?

Touring just means "wagon" in BMW land. Wagons can have the sport package, too. The 525iT (525i Touring), 540iT, etc. Just means wagon.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:BMW_E39_Touring_rear_20090204.jpg

Cars without the sport package have 16 inch wheels, the square-center 4-spoke wheel, and chrome trim around the windows.

Sport package cars have 17 inch wheels, the 3-spoke M-branded steering wheel, "shadowline" matte black/dark gray window trims, and different Sachs aluminum shocks and slightly lower springs. On the 540i manual E39s sport package cars also included a shorter final drive (I believe).

M-sport package cars have the sport package, plus an M5-style front and rear bumpers, M5-style dark gray plastic door beltline trims, M-branded door sill trim plates, and a black cloth headliner. The M-sport package was only available in 03 in the States, and then only for the 540i.

[giarcg]

On the 540i manual E39s sport package cars also included a shorter final drive (I believe).

My 2000 540iT Sport w/auto had the shorter final drive. Could really feel the difference the gearing made compared to my 2000 540i/6 sedan.

Where there any 540iT manuals imported?

[R Shaffner]

My 2000 540iT Sport w/auto had the shorter final drive. Could really feel the difference the gearing made compared to my 2000 540i/6 sedan.


Don't want to hijack the thread, but I'm surprised by that. I've never actually driven a 540 auto. I know the rear end has a different ratio, but I assumed the tranny/diff pairing produced a similar net result. Specifically, I would have guessed that the net ratio in top gear would have been about the same, to give the same highway rpm. Which to me would mean that 1-5 in the manual were geared slightly lower than the 1-4 in the auto. Is that wrong? (I could research and do the calcs, but it's easier to ask.)

Of course I wouldn't mind a little more pop in gears 1-3 and have thought about the differential swap. But after 200,000+ miles of driving a 6-speed, I have to say that overall I really like the gearing, especially with this V8. I don't know that I'd really want 1-2 to be shorter. 3rd pulls to 100 (indicated) just fine. And I love the blend of easy cruising rpm and power, including the way I can pass a tangle of cars on the highway just by opening it wide in 6th. In a couple of seconds it will pull from 80 to 100 with no fuss at all. The knot of not-quite-fast-enough cars will be in the mirror and my pretty wife won't even look up from her book.

(My '02 540-6 also has the M steering wheel, wheels, and trim, but not the M bumpers and it wasn't called "Sport" by BMW.)

[StephenVA]

There is a little misunderstanding on how later models are configured that have a sport package. You can find E39 wagons with a sports package which in this model is almost all suspension parts with a few interior parts like steering wheel, the seats can be comfort or sport, while exterior is all optional. There was an aero package that gave you the M5 front and rear bumpers. Most have the non aero package which means chrome around the windows. All sport models have 17 wheels as standard. As these cars are on their second third fourth or even fifth owner, many have "changes" that were never factory installed.
i would not get wrapped up in sport vs non sport as you can retroactive replace all the suspension parts with new and presto you too can have a sport model. Adding the M5 rear sway bar will make you fat assed wagon into a canyon carver. If you can find a set of aftermarket sway bars you will get even more. All of these changes can be as simple as ordering sport parts when you refresh the suspension as all is needed are the OE shocks and springs. Rear air bags are also different as there is no spring.
Once again, find the newest one you find with the lowest mileage and you can then tweak it to your preferences. Color in my opinion is highly over rated decision factor that people get wrapped up on. Wrong car with right color combo comes to mind.

[computiNATEor]

i would not get wrapped up in sport vs non sport as you can retroactive replace all the suspension parts with new and presto you too can have a sport model. Adding the M5 rear sway bar will make you fat assed wagon into a canyon carver. If you can find a set of aftermarket sway bars you will get even more. All of these changes can be as simple as ordering sport parts when you refresh the suspension as all is needed are the OE shocks and springs. Rear air bags are also different as there is no spring.
Once again, find the newest one you find with the lowest mileage and you can then tweak it to your preferences. Color in my opinion is highly over rated decision factor that people get wrapped up on. Wrong car with right color combo comes to mind.

Excellent point, lots of cars will have had lots of little changes throughout the years.

[StephenVA]

I always impressed how many varieties there were in the early years compared to the 2003 year as the volume of units sold went down to zip as the X5 sucked all the volume out of wagon sales.

[dolucasi]

Love the detailed discussion on gearing and diff ratios but that is all foreign to me. As long as it is manual and does not rev too high at highway speeds, I'm good.

In full agreement on the suspension parts. They will need refresh at some point anyway and a sport version can be chosen at that time.
That's what I did the regular W201 I had, replaced all with new OE-sportline suspension in the last 2 years. Worked out pretty well.
I suspect same will happen to the E39. Just looking for low mileage with papers and manual tranmission. That may not be as easy, all I see is >140K miles. I'll be patient....

[computiNATEor]

Love the detailed discussion on gearing and diff ratios but that is all foreign to me. As long as it is manual and does not rev too high at highway speeds, I'm good.

In full agreement on the suspension parts. They will need refresh at some point anyway and a sport version can be chosen at that time.
That's what I did the regular W201 I had, replaced all with new OE-sportline suspension in the last 2 years. Worked out pretty well.
I suspect same will happen to the E39. Just looking for low mileage with papers and manual tranmission. That may not be as easy, all I see is >140K miles. I'll be patient....

Watch the enthusiast auction websites, too. Bringatrailer.com and CarsAndBids.com. You'll probably pay a bit more, but the cars there are (usually) nice.

[StephenVA]

Thought on manual vs auto. The later models autos have an extra gear so RPMs on the Hwy are low and with a few tweaks they are just as enjoyable to drive. Dinan software Level 1 was done to mine making the shifts always in the right gear for the right throttle pressure situation. Downshifts are on target and in "auto" the up shifts are nice and smooth without higher than normal RPM required for the upshift. Is it fast? No, Can you spin the wheels? No except on hard turns and when it is wet. Nothing that an extra 100 HP would not solve but the bean counters decided that we only got the Mini mouse motors and the 540 here in the US in later product years.

[BimmrMeUpSnotty]

Speaking of the auction houses, some bat sheeit crazy sales going on over on Bring A Trailer this past few weeks! Feb 1, a ‘99 528 wagon with 70,000 miles went for $15,000!!! Totally stock, grand pa steering wheel, style 29’s, non sport seats, WTF??? !!!, a few weeks before that, a 48,000 mile 540 sport went for $21 or $22,000. Also an M1 went for $500,000. 2002’s going for well over $40,000, thats great and all, but I think the COVID pandemic is causing some questionable high price sales. We should test this theory with my 375,000 mile not so perfect 525 non sport, but sportified by me, wagon.
Theres also suddenly a bunch of on going sales on E38’s, 2 with 6 speed swaps, and one with an S62 swap. International Scouts, prices have been crazy this past year! One sold last week for $46,000, WTF? Man, I had one that I got from my dad, back when I was in high school, we used to trash that stupid thing, I even drove that thing down a ravine just to get to a hidden beach, used the winch to pull it back up, one whole cable length at a time to get it back up the ridge. Now they’re going the same way as the early Broncos, and FJ40’s.

[StephenVA]

People with lots of time and nothing to spend their money on.

[pimp cauldron]

Hey OP, I'm just over the hill from you in the SC mountains. Not knowing anything about e39s I was in a similar position three years ago and bought a '98 540i with 165k for $3800 more or less on a whim. I admittedly didn't pick the best one as there was little documentation for it, but overall I did OK.

I basically had to do all of the following when I got it: valve/timing cover gaskets, valley pan, thrust arms, rear upper control arms, and a ton of vacuum leaks. The only thing that's really ever failed while I owned it was the plastic bits in the sunroof. After all the gasket replacement I seem to be using about a quart every 5,000 which I consider not bad at all.

If I actually thought about it like you're doing, I probably would have looked for a 530i. This is mainly due to the steering of the V8 which I find pretty unappealing after coming from a mk4 GTI. But overall I still like the car a lot and am not planning on getting rid of it anytime soon.

[rlordjr]

I'm thinking BAT might like my stock 75k 2001 540iT. Shoot for the stars!

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

[cpf9]

Here's a nice sedan that just went up on BaT:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2001-bmw-525i-3/

[computiNATEor]

Here's a nice sedan that just went up on BaT:

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2001-bmw-525i-3/

Wow, that's a base, base, base model. Manual HVAC, low OBC, manual passenger seat? Plus accident history. It's also been slathered in Armor All or something under the hood - yuck. Front bumper cover does not fit well; it's sagging on the right, and buckled at the bottom in the middle. The wrong badging on the car does not inspire confidence in the quality of the repair, and it looks like it's in the wrong place on the trunk anyways. Brake rotors look like they're about toast, but might be fine. Right front rocker panel/jack point has a panel hanging off, and either a scratch or rust. No front floormat, and stains in the headliner. The saddest excuse for a stereo in a 5-series. Control arms look original, and will need replacement soon. Trans looks oily, diff or CV has slung grease everywhere. Oil pan gasket looks like it might be leaking. Leaking power steering hoses according to inspection report.

[BimmrMeUpSnotty]

You missed the most important thing, New Jersey car dealer..... And they had a few body panels painted.... Dealerships usually have ding dongs working out of mini vans painting cars for quick turn over out in the parking lot.

[computiNATEor]

You missed the most important thing, New Jersey car dealer..... And they had a few body panels painted.... Dealerships usually have ding dongs working out of mini vans painting cars for quick turn over out in the parking lot.

That does not surprise me.

[Twistytee]

I still don’t understand how they “curate” cars for their auctions. They turned down my no accident, original paint, well-maintained 530i/5MT black on black sport as being “too common”/pedestrian” and this gets approved?

[StephenVA]

This auction house was attempting to be a boutique market for interesting cars, etc. in order to get the volume they need to make money they are becoming just another Hemings motor news, or autotrader. Right now the focus seems to be 40 somethings looking at over priced jap cars from the eighties. Not my interest at all.

[cpf9]

Did you request a reserve?


I still don’t understand how they “curate” cars for their auctions. They turned down my no accident, original paint, well-maintained 530i/5MT black on black sport as being “too common”/pedestrian” and this gets approved?

- - - Updated - - -

To be honest I did not look closely at the listing before posting it. At least it's no reserve.


Wow, that's a base, base, base model. Manual HVAC, low OBC, manual passenger seat? Plus accident history. It's also been slathered in Armor All or something under the hood - yuck. Front bumper cover does not fit well; it's sagging on the right, and buckled at the bottom in the middle. The wrong badging on the car does not inspire confidence in the quality of the repair, and it looks like it's in the wrong place on the trunk anyways. Brake rotors look like they're about toast, but might be fine. Right front rocker panel/jack point has a panel hanging off, and either a scratch or rust. No front floormat, and stains in the headliner. The saddest excuse for a stereo in a 5-series. Control arms look original, and will need replacement soon. Trans looks oily, diff or CV has slung grease everywhere. Oil pan gasket looks like it might be leaking. Leaking power steering hoses according to inspection report.

[BimmrMeUpSnotty]

This auction house was attempting to be a boutique market for interesting cars, etc. in order to get the volume they need to make money they are becoming just another Hemings motor news, or autotrader. Right now the focus seems to be 40 somethings looking at over priced jap cars from the eighties. Not my interest at all.

Yep! Still not bad, you still get some interesting cars come through, but they are turning into mainstream line up more and more. And no surprise, they even announced that they were going to be making a whole bunch of changes, there was a video that they posted about this about four, or five months ago, with the CEO saying so. Apparently, they hired some marketing agency, got more bean counters in, and now, we see this change before our very eyes, progress....

[dolucasi]

Good to hear! There must be some local group of owners here. I just met the person who owns that 528i touring in Los Gatos. Actually the car is very well sorted. Just too expensive ....

[BMW540san]

Here you go dolucasi, just posted:

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?2443960-FS-2003-BMW-530i-Toledo-Blue-Sport-*5-spd-Very-Clean&p=30638065#post30638065

[dolucasi]

Here you go dolucasi, just posted:

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?2443960-FS-2003-BMW-530i-Toledo-Blue-Sport-*5-spd-Very-Clean&p=30638065#post30638065

Thanks! That is a great lead...

[computiNATEor]

Here you go dolucasi, just posted:

https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?2443960-FS-2003-BMW-530i-Toledo-Blue-Sport-*5-spd-Very-Clean&p=30638065#post30638065

Making me want my 530i back again :P

[dolucasi]

Making me want my 530i back again :P

Went fast within 48 hours it seems. So we wait ....

[computiNATEor]

Went fast within 48 hours it seems. So we wait ....

That is going to be common. I sold my salvage-titled, 218k mile 530i5 for $4k in 5 days.

[splackavellie]

That is going to be common. I sold my salvage-titled, 218k mile 530i5 for $4k in 5 days.
is that the going rate for these now? or is that mainly CA prices?

[computiNATEor]

is that the going rate for these now? or is that mainly CA prices?

Dunno, I only buy cars in California. Prices for nice E39s aren’t going down.

[b2ke]

I'm in San Jose as well and I'm literally on craigslist everyday incase any e39 goodies pop up. I was also searching everyday for a year before I found my 2002 540i 6 speed in July of 2019. I managed to snag it, within hours of it being posted, for $3.9k. I consider this a steal being 140k miles, adult owned, and having lots of maintenance receipts (totalling over $10k). The seller also showed me his phone which was full of texts and calls from people begging to see it. He had no idea the market value and listed it for KBB value. Most examples at this mileage range are priced over $5.5-6k+.

Anyway, my point is that the good examples are VERY rare to come by and usually sell quickly. Though good examples nowadays seem to be very over priced or have mods that sellers think they can recoup their money from (for example that touring on air suspension in Los Gatos lol).

There are a few e39/bmw Facebook groups you can also pay attention to if you're adamant on finding the right car. Here is one that popped up this morning https://www.facebook.com/groups/125837807613280/permalink/1541306629399717/

It's not the best example and the way the ad is worded doesn't help lol. But it definitely looks decent even though he didn't post the mileage. The price is also on the higher end, but who knows, maybe he does have receipts to justify it.

Sent from my SM-N950W using Tapatalk

[dolucasi]

Thank you b2ke! I will have a look at that closely although body has >200Kmiles and the Engine is swapped. So that is a couple points against...
I will certainly follow that site though.

[rbelton]

Here's my e39 buyers guide, feel free to add any comments what items you guys look out for specifically when searching


https://youtu.be/70zvnZdvEog

link: https://youtu.be/70zvnZdvEog

+1 on buying cars out west! Will be around $1500 to get it back to the east coast though.

[b2ke]

Thank you b2ke! I will have a look at that closely although body has >200Kmiles and the Engine is swapped. So that is a couple points against...
I will certainly follow that site though.Yeah there are a few undesirable aspects of that car but I figured I'd share it since I basically saw the ad right after reading this thread!

Sent from my SM-N950W using Tapatalk

[dolucasi]

Thanks rbelton, very helpful.

- Cheers!

[b2ke]

This one just popped up in San Jose. The price is WAAAY up there and I wonder if its, in any way, justifiable based on the sellers description. It'd be interesting to check the car out and test drive it even with no intention of buying it lol.

https://offerup.com/item/detail/1068357240/v

685599
685600
685601

[computiNATEor]

This one just popped up in San Jose. The price is WAAAY up there and I wonder if its, in any way, justifiable based on the sellers description. It'd be interesting to check the car out and test drive it even with no intention of buying it lol.

https://offerup.com/item/detail/1068357240/v

Lol. For that price buy a driver quality M5.


:smoke3

[rlordjr]

That really would be rare if it actually has a 5.5l engine [emoji848]

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[computiNATEor]

That really would be rare if it actually has a 5.5l engine [emoji848]

Sent from my SM-G970U using Tapatalk

Dinan stroker? Haha

[dolucasi]

Just wanted to give a quick update on this. After looking around for about a month it became clear to me that it was going to be difficult to find a lower mileage E39 with manual transmission. Most are >150K miles.

So I went in an entirely different direction and bought a 2018 F22 230i with 24K miles. This is a sweet stick with rev matching option etc. Still under factory warranty. I spent more than I wanted to but it is a rare find. And BMW does not make this 2-door coupe model anymore except in the more expensive M fashion.

I'll still search for a E39 as the F22 is mostly for my son but I can be patient now....

Thanks for all the help!

[computiNATEor]

Those little cars are awesome. The 2 series is the only new BMW I’d ever consider :)

[dolucasi]

I actually test drove a used 2018 430i couple manual transmission and the 230i felt better, more zippy with the same engine.
Maybe it was my wallet thinking as the asking price was $12K more.