RMS Stage 2 obd2 Emmission Legal Dyno sheet

[ICS Performance]

I just got off the phone with Marco I am holding his new dyno sheet he faxed over to me in my hand. He made 400.5 rwhp and 310.6 torque. I will scan and post A.S.A.P.

[paul e]

No doubt thats a very impressive result.. AS for it being emissions legal, i highly beg to differ.. REad the following, and you will see that, according to the law, it most certainly is NOT emissions legal:

Sec. 203. (a) The following acts and the causing thereof are prohibited-

(3)


(A)

for any person to remove or render inoperative any device or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine in compliance with regulations under this subchapter prior to its sale and delivery to the ultimate purchaser, or for any person knowingly to remove or render inoperative any such device or element of design after such sale and delivery to the ultimate purchaser; or

(B)

for any person to manufacture or sell, or offer to sell, or install, any part or component intended for use with, or as part of, any motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine, where a principal effect of the part or component is to bypass, defeat, or render inoperative any device or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine in compliance with regulations under this subchapter, and where the person knows or should know that such part or component is being offered for sale or installed for such use or put to such use; or...

theres alot more.. if youre interested as to why its not emissions legal, view the legal material here:
http://www.epa.gov/air/caa/caa203.txt

[M3TurboCa]

Whoo hold on there mon you can scan and post you know how to do that :)

What else was done on his car since the last time just the revision from Osh that was street tuned.

Rasta man you can fax me or email me and I can post. :D

Paul I guess technically all cars even yours is and mine is illegal, but who cares if you can pass the emmission test then all is fine who would ever know what is disable from what is not.

I think as long as the car can pass that is the point. :)

[paul e]

>>Paul I guess technically all cars even yours is and mine is illegal,<<

I dotn think thats true at all.. I have not disabled any emissions equipment.. my adaption works well, and all my oe emissions related equipment is still there. If im overlooking something that makes it illegal, please let me know, cause im not aware of it.. incidentaly, i just passed my NYS emissions inspection, which as we know, is one of the toughest in the country, and must be done annually. please advise why mine is illegal. thanks. I realize that just passing the test isnt proof apparently of emissions legality.. apparently, the inspectors arent required to hold to the letter of the law as it is written.

Frankly in this case, the only reason i even give a damn is that I have a pet peeve against tuners who are unable to deal with the adaption features of obdii, or dont use the proper chips.

>>I think as long as the car can pass that is the point<<

Also, Mark, the only reason i even mentioned it is that the thread originator made a point of stating not only the dyno result, but went out of the way to state that the results were EMISSIONS LEGAL. Thats what im referring too.

[NickG]

Guys, rendering ANY emissions device inoperative, whether it actually impacts emissions or not, is illegal. That holds true for anybody's aftermarket installation.

I don't *think* Paul's car is illegal though, because none of his emissions devices have been disabled. Mark, if adaption is still enabled on yours, and you're running cats, and nothing else was disabled, then yours would still be legal.

[M3TurboCa]

Ok thanks for the clarification. :)

What I should have said and meant is who cares as long as the car can pass sate emissions testing none of the state operators have the equipment to go into a car dme to verify what has been altered from what not oe.

Plus they dont have the time to do it. So what is the big fuss :)

[paul e]

>>So what is the big fuss <<

Well, lets realize there ARE those people who are just as passionate about their air quality as we are about our cars! Presuming there is linkage between the emissions laws, and the state of our air, a case CAN be made that its GOOD to abide by these laws, whether or not one personally 'likes' them or not.

[M3TurboCa]

Paul but in my post I said as long as the car passes the emmission test the co. nox etc.. who cares. :)

The car would still produce the same emission as a stock car. But under boost that's a different story. :)

[paul e]

>>Paul but in my post I said as long as the car passes the emmission test the co. nox etc.. who cares<<

I know... Mark, please dont think i was saying i put you in the camp of those who really aRE irresponsbile about the air quality thing. The only reason i made a point is the claim in the thread title that it was emissions legal power being created, when the fact is the car does NOT have a functioning Adaption system. thats all...

[M3TurboCa]

Paul guess what George should have said passes state emission testing on co, nx etc. :)

[ICS Performance]

Guys, rendering ANY emissions device inoperative, whether it actually impacts emissions or not, is illegal. That holds true for anybody's aftermarket installation.

I don't *think* Paul's car is illegal though, because none of his emissions devices have been disabled. Mark, if adaption is still enabled on yours, and you're running cats, and nothing else was disabled, then yours would still be legal.
The car still passes emmisions so whats the problem here, guys no one can congradulate him and be happy for him, thoses #'s are great. You guy's need to give credit where it is deserved and appearently, you guys dont, I hope its not envy or jealousy. It hope its not lets pick on Marco day. This is not an opportunity for any type of bashing, lets all be men about this. This statement Nick is not directly to you, its to everyone. :)

[stimpee]

Do you know for a fact that Marco's adaption is disabled on his current setup?

Curious.

I think the "letter" of the law is bullsh*t, since the ONLY thing that matters is what comes out the tailpipe, and that that stays consistent within the limits set forth. HOW you do that should be irrelevent. Completely.

Kind of like the DME vs standalone vs. piggyback argument. If you can get the engine the right amount of fuel, spark, etc, the engine does not care one bit what type of computer (or caburetor or whatever) got it there...

Steve

[ICS Performance]

Paul guess what George should have said passes state emission testing on co, nx etc. :)I dont have a problem changing the tit :) le if it makes any kind of problem for anyone. I will.

[ICS Performance]

Do you know for a fact that Marco's adaption is disabled on his current setup?

Curious.

I think the "letter" of the law is bullsh*t, since the ONLY thing that matters is what comes out the tailpipe, and that that stays consistent within the limits set forth. HOW you do that should be irrelevent. Completely.

Kind of like the DME vs standalone vs. piggyback argument. If you can get the engine the right amount of fuel, spark, etc, the engine does not care one bit what type of computer (or caburetor or whatever) got it there...

Steve
Thats what im saying, I thought I was the only crazy one here. (Maybe you have joined my madness in thinking that) :)

[SilverStreak]

The car still passes emmisions so whats the problem here, guys no one can congradulate him and be happy for him, thoses #'s are great. You guy's need to give credit where it is deserved and appearently, you guys dont, I hope its not envy or jealousy. It hope its not lets pick on Marco day. This is not an opportunity for any type of bashing, lets all be men about this. This statement Nick is not directly to you, its to everyone. :)

I don't think anyone is bashing anyone, or not giving credit where it's due, or not impressed with the numbers, etc...

I just think folks are sharing what they happen to know about the laws here and there, etc.... just sharing info cuz it was brought up, that's all.

And there'd be no point to bashing or dumping on someone who isn't here to defend themself, and we wouldn't tolerate it. Any such action would get a thread locked and could lead to action being taken against people's account here....

It would be kinda foolish for one to jeapordize one's membership here over someone or something that is no longer a member here, etc...

So, please keep this civil and on topic, gents...

[paul e]

George, its not about 'Credit'.. did he 'Invent' something? Ok, i give credit.. he spent his money... Whoopee.. I dont get the whole credit thing.. what did he create? what did he Tune?

I DID say say the results were impressive, didnt i? what more do you need than that? As for the emissions, and steve, this answers your question, I know that his LTFT had been reading Zero for way too long for a car that had been adapting. Apparently either its disabled, or its written on a chip to which adaption cannot be stored on. Again, I didnt bring this up.. it was in the Title of the thread.. Doesn that kind of make it a germane issue for discussion?

[ICS Performance]

George, its not about 'Credit'.. did he 'Invent' something? Ok, i give credit.. he spent his money... Whoopee.. I dont get the whole credit thing.. what did he create? what did he Tune?

I DID say say the results were impressive, didnt i? what more do you need than that? As for the emissions, and steve, this answers your question, I know that his LTFT had been reading Zero for way too long for a car that had been adapting. Apparently either its disabled, or its written on a chip to which adaption cannot be stored on. Again, I didnt bring this up.. it was in the Title of the thread.. Doesn that kind of make it a germane issue for discussion?
Paul im not looking and pointing @ you and making any trouble here, I havent heard of an obd2 M3 with a catalytic converter making 400WHP, that is a first to me, thats all, we all know he didnt fabricate it, but what he has works well. And its no miracle you can also achieve that goal, without a problem but he is the first to do so with a cat. I have to watch how I sneeze on this thread I feel im really not welcomed anynore, so ill post the dyno shhet and ill keep it cool. :buttrock

[stimpee]

I am curious as to the claims and the situation only for information. Not looking to pass judgement or anything else...

Steve

[DakarDave]

Guys, rendering ANY emissions device inoperative, whether it actually impacts emissions or not, is illegal. That holds true for anybody's aftermarket installation.

I don't *think* Paul's car is illegal though, because none of his emissions devices have been disabled. Mark, if adaption is still enabled on yours, and you're running cats, and nothing else was disabled, then yours would still be legal.

well, at least 49 state legal! Darn CA!

[DakarDave]

George, its not about 'Credit'.. did he 'Invent' something? Ok, i give credit.. he spent his money... Whoopee.. I dont get the whole credit thing.. what did he create? what did he Tune?

I DID say say the results were impressive, didnt i? what more do you need than that? As for the emissions, and steve, this answers your question, I know that his LTFT had been reading Zero for way too long for a car that had been adapting. Apparently either its disabled, or its written on a chip to which adaption cannot be stored on. Again, I didnt bring this up.. it was in the Title of the thread.. Doesn that kind of make it a germane issue for discussion?

You don't have to invent something be given "credit"...

The world is filled with leaders and followers..

Leaders choose to go ahead and live their lives on their own terms. What was that old line "Some people look at things that are and ask why... I dream of things that never were and ask why not" or something like that...

Now, Marco in my mind is a leader type of person. He's been very successful in life and he lives life on his own terms.

His car is a reflection of that....

Like george said.. Marco's car is one of the few examples of a CF supercharged car making 400 rwhp with cats in place and pump 93 octane gas...

Surely you can give credit to someone that is willing to take the time and money to make a car like that... can't you..

I sure can... Marco, If you reading great numbers man... great work!

[RMS343RWHP]

I was at the dyno and I knew the car was going to make the 400 mark. :alright The car felt real strong and Marco got alot of loose ends tied together to get that number. :) :) Congrats to Marco!!!! :redspot

[///3oris]

Dave... leaders and followers, eh?

The power is good... glad Marco finally has reached his goal...

But THIS is impressive: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=227310&highlight=400rwhp

I still question how that was done!

Boris

P.S. What were the conditions on the runs? What correction factor was used? Which dyno? What was the procedure? How many runs were taken? How were subsuquent runs affected, etc?

[EMC]

I want a car that shoots a big fire ball out the tailpipe.

Not passing emissions would be worth seeing the look on the techs face as the walls get scorched. :evil2

[ICS Performance]

as promised...

<img src="http://members.roadfly.org/dakardave/marcos_dyno.jpg"/>

[paul e]

>>He's been very successful in life and he lives life on his own terms.<<

Since you brought it up, just let me say that to me, success is judged on many different levels, and leave it at that ;)

Hey... gk, wheres the AFR? ask him to send the raw dynojet file, and ill post a jpg showing all the attributes.

>>Not passing emissions would be worth seeing the look on the techs face as the walls get scorched<<

Definitely!!!!!! :redspot

[DakarDave]

"AFRs? AFRs? We don't need no stinking AFRs?"

A donut hole to the person who can name the movie I borrowed that line from! :)

[stimpee]

Cmon guys, why does there have to be all the back and forth "personal" point making and bickering?

Just let it go...

Keep it to technical and upbeat discussion, not backhanded (and forehanded) stabs at each other. Seriously...

Steve

[ICS Performance]

Cmon guys, why does there have to be all the back and forth "personal" point making and bickering?

Just let it go...

Keep it to technical and upbeat discussion, not backhanded (and forehanded) stabs at each other. Seriously...

Steve
Nicely stated, hey by the way still waiting for you to call me so we can started on the project we spoke about. :)

[M3TurboCa]

Right Steve the man Marco made 400rwhp on a cf at basically 11psi and that is great numbers no matter how you look on it, and running cats. :)

Torque solid too :) George why change the title it dont bother me mon. :D

[ICS Performance]

Right Steve the man Marco made 400rwhp on a cf at basically 11psi and that is great numbers no matter how you look on it, and running cats. :)

Torque solid too :) George why change the title it dont bother me mon. :D
Ya mon im a turbo head it would very hard to make that kind of power on a turbo car with a stock cat and 10.7 psi :) Maybe no inpossible but hard.

[jimmyz2]

"AFRs? AFRs? We don't need no stinking AFRs?"

A donut hole to the person who can name the movie I borrowed that line from! :)
I'll take that donut hole please:Blazing Saddles :)

[stimpee]

Nicely stated, hey by the way still waiting for you to call me so we can started on the project we spoke about. :)

Sorry George, been meaning to, and thought of it today. Been swamped. I'll try to catch up with you in the next day or so!


Steve

[///M3DANA]

I just got back form going for a ride in Marco car......CRAZY fast,well done Marco!!!

[Jim M3]

Nice number Marco, thanks for all the information today. By the way I am the one shooting flameballs out the back of my car. True story, I was at Road America in a P-car event and a driver of a GT-3 came by and said I was wondering how an M3 could pass my car but then I saw the 2 foot flame ball come out of your tailpipe in turn 5. I said yeah it only looks like a family cruiser. I have to get some pictures at the next event. I guess Marco beat AA and Evosport to the punch on the 400 whp Vortech car.

As for air quality I care but when I see the old Dodge van running down the street with the mosquito fogger on it I feel like I am not harming the environment as bad as he is

[highboostingm3]

Well I will say that this is awesome news! I am happy for Marco! "Congrats Marco!" :redspot It is a giant achievement for Marco & everyone else that has gotten their hands dirty making his car what it is today, PERIOD!

[PacketPuppy]

Hey, what was done to the M to get these #'s?

Thx...