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View Full Version : P0011 code and Lumpy Idle after Alt Failure/Replacement



ViolinARC
11-08-2019, 06:24 PM
OK...I decided to close the other thread because the original issue was solved. It was def a bad alt in combo with a dead battery. No more crazy dash lights...:alright

Now I'm dealing with a strange new issue...a lumpy idle. Here is what I've done so far:

Finally decided to stop waiting for the software and cable because I'm impatient. :rolleyes We all know there are a few directly related items associated with rough idle and misfires so I decided to start with the coils/plugs. I immediately attacked the right bank at the rear and surprise, surprise, surprise...the damn plug well was FLOODED with oil. I didn't suspect that to be the issue because that side was recently serviced for a burned exhaust valve. The vcg should be leak free but evidently not! :mad Seriously, as soon as I cleaned up that one plug well/coil, she fired up and ran much smoother. Attacked the second from the last and there was quite a bit of oil in there too but not as much. Cleaned that one out and VOILA...smooth as glass!!

BUT WAIT...

CAW< CAW< CAW...crunch, crunch, crunch! Me eating CROW! Just returned from an extended drive and it must've been the choke. After she warmed up, the lumpy idle is back...smooth over 800rpm but at 500-700, lumpy. It's a bit less but it's still lumpy...damn! Thought I had that one stitched up...guess it's back to the drawing board. :confused

NOW...

Response to question: Thanks man but all the coils and boots are BRAND NEW as are the plugs and CCV. After my experience last night, I'm going to attack all the coils and plug wells first because there was a lot of oil in the first two plug wells that I cleaned out. The others look clean but I may as well pull and inspect. I was originally just going to pull one coil at a time to replace with a known working coil but stopped when I found the wells were flooded and just started cleaning up all the liquid. Started her after cleaning the second coil and plug, which is why I posted that all was good but it must've been the higher idle because as soon as she warmed up on my ride, the lumpy idle returned. :help

I spent some time last night checking for vacuum leaks by replacing the exposed, obvious vac lines and cleaning/treating all the seals along the air intake...no change. Disconnected the HFM5/MAF...no change. Inspected the CCV, which was originally pi**ing all over the back of the engine and it is clean and dry (I did a good job :D). Going to spend my "free" time inspecting ALL the coils and plugs but this time, I'm going to follow my original plan and change out ONE coil at a time with the known working one (borrowing from the '00 "parts car"). My BMW code reading software just refuses to work and I'd rather spend the time working on the car! I'm forced to blind troubleshoot but at least, the knowledge I have gained from Bf.c and turning my own wrench, allows me to do this with a good idea of where to start and continue...:buttrock

Hopefully my lunch won't include crow this time...:stickoutt

Response to question: Well, not yet but I never fixed the leaks into the plug wells on the '00 and it never acted like this when the wells were filled with oil. The coils are brand new as are the plugs so I highly doubt some oil could cause this much uncivilized behavior (starting to lean towards a vac leak). The coils I inspected looked perfect and when I swapped each one of the two I cleaned and inspected with the other known working coil, the engine acted the same. I am going to be more diligent today and will go at each coil, HOWEVER, will remember to warm the car up before testing...:rolleyes

MORE INFO:

FRUSTRATING! The cold idle is def better but still slightly lumpy and as soon as she warms up...stumbling idle. Just finished pulling/cleaning/inspecting each coil and plug. Tested each cylinder with a known, functioning Bremi coil and with each start, still lumpy. There was some oil on the right side rear two plug wells and the same (albeit MUCH less) on the left side but not enough to cause an issue fme. :dunno

I also inspected and cleaned the gas cap o-ring but that didn't help either (will probably switch with the '00, which is a new replacement). I am def leaning towards a vac leak somewhere but am on hold for now. If anyone has other possibilities or suggestions, please chime in because before the rogue alt incident, she was running smooth as silk...WTH happened?!?!? :devillook

pleiades
11-08-2019, 10:01 PM
Vark, You need to pull some codes as they will probably help you to better narrow down the list of suspects.

Not owning a 540i, I can't really help but .... When you had that overcharging alt pushing out juice at -- what was it? -- 17-19 V, it *could* have charbroiled a few modules or other electrically sensitive parts (coils, sensors, solenoids).

JimLev
11-08-2019, 10:10 PM
Save me from reading chapter 2 again.....it idles OK when cold but doesn't after it's warmed up?

ViolinARC
11-08-2019, 11:41 PM
Vark, You need to pull some codes as they will probably help you to better narrow down the list of suspects.

Not owning a 540i, I can't really help but .... When you had that overcharging alt pushing out juice at -- what was it? -- 17-19 V, it *could* have charbroiled a few modules or other electrically sensitive parts (coils, sensors, solenoids).Yeah...that's the worst case. Checked and replaced all coils and plugs one-by-one with no change.

Interestingly, it was running fine until... While I was waiting for the alt, I decided to replace the trans fluid/filter and THEN, when trying to start, I noticed everything was dark. This is how I discovered there was also a parasitic drain obviously due to the short in the alt reg. Once I restarted, lumpy f'in idle...


Save me from reading chapter 2 again.....it idles OK when cold but doesn't after it's warmed up?Apologies bro. Pretty much at this point Jim although after my routine this morning, I noticed a little blip when cold (900rpm) too. I can def state that there is plenty of get-up-n-go, she's smooth and powerful at freeway speeds or even less BUT as soon as I'm idling at 500...LUMPY! LOL

Received a notice from USPS about a sig only package from the UK (I was home doggone lazy postal worker). Requested re-delivery tomorrow but I gotta work all day. I'm hoping it's the cable and software so I can pull those darn codes and stop blind troubleshooting. I do appreciate the interest and assist guys...:cool

ViolinARC
11-10-2019, 05:36 AM
FINALLY!! Able to pull the codes...P0011 and P2189 (pending). Cleared and will do a drive cycle to see what pops up again. Could the P0011 be related to the work on the failed exhaust valve (#4) less than a year ago? That was an expensive decision and I should've gotten more than a year out of it IMHO...

I read the thread by theWalkinator and don't have the skills to do that kind of work (great job man). Any advice on how I should approach this issue? I really don't enjoy driving (uhm...idling in) SilverSurfer like this...actually accelerates and cruises very nicely. :dunno

JimLev
11-10-2019, 10:25 AM
P0011 cam timing out of range while the vanos isinactive, this is when the DME first checks the vanos when the engine is started.

P0011 is pretty much always incorrect timing of the trigger wheel, it's not the cam sensor or the vanos solenoid.

Seems this code pops up a lot after an engine has been timed. If it doesn't pop up right away it does many months after the job was done.

ViolinARC
11-10-2019, 12:34 PM
P0011 cam timing out of range while the vanos isinactive, this is when the DME first checks the vanos when the engine is started.

P0011 is pretty much always incorrect timing of the trigger wheel, it's not the cam sensor or the vanos solenoid.

Seems this code pops up a lot after an engine has been timed. If it doesn't pop up right away it does many months after the job was done.

According to the shop report, they "Reset engine ignition timing and idle speed". Is that related to the timing of the trigger wheel? I ask because there is a 24-month warranty on parts and labor. They also replaced both VCG's and they are both leaking oil into the plug wells...

AFAIK he didn't touch the timing chain, trigger wheel or tcg's (inspection only) while working on the #4 exhaust valve but did do the valley pan seal and replaced the oil drainback tube from the CCV to the OSV.

I have access to known working CPS's and VANOS solenoids. Could it be possible that the alt issue burned one of those components out? It's so odd that she was running perfectly before and initially after the rouge alt/bad battery issue so the sudden timing issue seems bizarre...

I'll stop there since this is turning into a novel...LOL! Thanks for your input and being so helpful Jim...:cool

ViolinARC
11-10-2019, 03:38 PM
Here is the DTC capture: 661907

And Freeze Frame Data: 661908

Thought you might enjoy watching a live data stream and the shaking, lumpy idle:

https://youtu.be/m-b_QVJoyaE

https://youtu.be/G0r2rO5DHbw

https://youtu.be/d-pRon_axPI

https://youtu.be/apBAHOyJNek

ViolinARC
11-10-2019, 05:24 PM
Thank you Jim! :buttrock

From reading the other threads (Atomistic specifically), it appears that I could do the trigger wheel without messing with the timing chain, guides or even removing the tc covers...correct? If that's the case AND the issue isn't covered under warranty (vc's need to be done...correctly :shifty), I may try to learn a new skill...:stickoutt

JimLev
11-10-2019, 05:54 PM
If the shop fixed a burnt valve they would have to remove the head, thus the engine would need to be timed.
It's possible the higher voltage could have messed up the cam sensors or the vanos solenoids which might cause the lumpy idle....just a guess. Swap them with your spares if you have any.

The P0011 is probably the trigger wheel. If turning it a few degrees CCW (looking at it from the front) doesn't fix it bring it back to the shop. I wouldn't tell the shop your alt as putting out 17v.

ViolinARC
11-10-2019, 06:10 PM
:urtheman:drink1

Good advice Jim. I hadn't planned on sharing anything with them. They seemed annoyed that I knew so much about my ride last time I took it in. :devillook Will post results when I get another chance to address this issue...:cool

ViolinARC
11-12-2019, 03:26 AM
Here is some video at idle...revealing? :help


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hnDySJaLeD0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6v1I4qG1R7g

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5nnUge5y1uI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sGQCbfN66gI

Thanks in advance for watching and commenting...:smoke3